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Ask RiotACT: red light infringement notice

By Perseverance - 1 March 2017 7

Ask RiotACT

Hi Rioters.

I’ve read some posts on the issue I’m raising, from some years ago. I figure there might be more to add at this time .

This concerns a traffic infringement notice I received recently. Red light. I assumed it was running a red light which I’ve never done. Turns out it was a claim that I entered a crossing on red. I requested images. I was given two.

Both show me in the pedestrian crossing (no pedestrians in sight at all on either side) and traffic from the adjacent side in the intersection now in front of me. I did not enter the intersection, just entered the crossing by about a tyre diameter. The images both are 20 plus seconds after the alleged infringement. I requested images showing that I entered the crossing on red. I was told no. That the two images, 20 plus seconds after my car came to a stop, will be what is presented to court if I contest it. Which I might, unless swayed otherwise.

Anyone able to suggest why they won’t provide me with images of my vehicle entering the crossing when the lights turn red? And what costs are involved with the Magistrates cost if I fail? They don’t withdraw red light infringement notices under any circumstance so they say.

Thank you in advance.

Mike

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7 Responses to
Ask RiotACT: red light infringement notice
1
JC 12:06 pm
01 Mar 17
#

Red light cameras (with a few exceptions) work by taking photos as vehicles pass over sensors that are embedded in the road between the hold line (the big fat white one) and the pedestrian crossing if there is one. If no crossing then about .5m beyond the white hold line.

Now for you to have been photographed 20 seconds after the light went red, it means that your vehicle has triggered one of these sensors 20 seconds after red.

The only way I can see that has happened is you have stopped before the sensors and rolled in, or you have stopped before the red light, but over the sensors and 20 seconds later you have moved slightly which has trigger them.

In either case technically you have still run a red. You are meant to stop and wait before the white hold line. Indeed the photos by your own admission show you sitting in the pedestrian zone, which means you are in the intersection after a red light. The fact you are ‘safely’ away from the traffic is irrelevant you are in the intersection.

2
Mysteryman 4:28 pm
01 Mar 17
#

JC said :

In either case technically you have still run a red. You are meant to stop and wait before the white hold line. Indeed the photos by your own admission show you sitting in the pedestrian zone, which means you are in the intersection after a red light. The fact you are ‘safely’ away from the traffic is irrelevant you are in the intersection.

This ^^. That giant, wide white line is the part you should stop before. Not on it, and not after it. If the photo shows that your car is past that line (and it sounds like a large amount of your car was past that white line) then you’re going to have to cop the fine.

3
Perseverance 8:16 pm
01 Mar 17
#

Thank you JC & MM
The remaining questions are why no image entering the crossing zone and costs defending the action ?
See, I believe I possibly entered the zone ( between the two lines ) after the light turned red.
The first image has me on the first line on red and another image has both my front tyres just pass this line. 10 cm .
It is my contention that I came to a stop on the line on amber when it appeared too risky to enter the intersection. As you suggested JC the car could have rolled forward about 10 cm. Enough to trigger the sensors. According to JC the sensors register movement. Not the mere presence of a weight in the zone ?
So I’m still curious why no image of me entering the zone. Because that image could have a time of one second after red?
On the basis of being in the zone regardless MM, I agree that I should accept the Infringement . However this raises an interesting situation. What happens the next time you are closing in on an amber light…and you decide to enter the intersection ( on amber ) , the camera can’t ping you because the sensors won’t pick you up as all your wheels would have passed the zone. Right ?
And then a photograph of you in the intersection on red would require an image proving you also entered the intersection on red !
Isn’t it legal to enter intersections and therefore crossing zones on amber if it is safe to do so ?
Guess it comes back to JC’ s contention that the zone sensors pick up movement only , not mere presence !?
I apologise in advance if this appears tendentious but this situation must touch on many drivers at red light intersections.
Thanks Mike

4
wildturkeycanoe 6:32 am
02 Mar 17
#

Your excuse does not have a legal leg to stand on. It doesn’t matter if you went over the stop line before or during the red stop light, you shouldn’t be in there at either time. Rolling into the zone or changing your mind after the lights went amber have nothing to do with it. A hesitant but late decision leaving you stranded during the transition from amber to red is inconsequential, you need to be more committed to either decision or you will be stuck half way. I’m guessing this is a lesson learned but one that you should already have been aware of, stop behind the line, every time. Just treat it like parallel parking, you need to stop at the right distance or you will hit something that will cost you money.
They wouldn’t send a photo of the period before you entered the stop zone, because the light would have been amber and the camera sensor would not have been triggered. It wouldn’t prove anything except that you were legally entering the intersection under amber conditions, but then changed your mind too late. If they took a photo every time the lights were amber, regardless if a car was there or not, they’d need a data center as large as Centerlink’s to keep all the images.
I also don’t think you will get an answer to the legal cost scenario, because it will vary depending on how far up the court system you are willing to waste your money on, because this looks to be an unwinnable case.

5
buzz819 6:50 pm
04 Mar 17
#

Perseverance said :

Isn’t it legal to enter intersections and therefore crossing zones on amber if it is safe to do so ?

Nope, actually it is illegal to enter an intersection on a yellow light;
From; Road Transport (Offences) Regulation 2005
Effective: 01/09/16

not stop at stop line at yellow light – $419 & 3 demerit points
not stop at stop line at red light – $419 & 3 demerit points

The Australian Road Rules
AUSTRALIAN ROAD RULES – REG 57

57—Stopping for a yellow traffic light or arrow
(1) A driver approaching or at traffic lights showing a yellow traffic light must stop—
(a) if there is a stop line at or near the traffic lights and the driver can stop safely before reaching the stop line—as near as practicable to, but before reaching, the stop line; or
(b) if there is no stop line at or near the traffic lights and the driver can stop safely before reaching the traffic lights—as near as practicable to, but before reaching, the nearest or only traffic lights; or
(c) if the traffic lights are at an intersection and the driver cannot stop safely in accordance with paragraph (a) or (b), but can stop safely before entering the intersection—before entering the intersection, and must not proceed past the stop line or nearest or only traffic lights, or into the intersection (as the case may be), until the traffic lights show a green or flashing yellow traffic light or no traffic light.

So must not enter unless it is UNSAFE to stop. Which pretty much means, if there is a bus or truck up your ass or the lights turn yellow when you are right on top of the line are the only reason’s you should go through a yellow light.

6
bigred 2:34 pm
05 Mar 17
#

No offence intended to the OP, but Canberra does have an epidemic of sloppy and dangerous driving. Not stopping behind the correct line is but one of the examples spotted daily. I am pleased the red light cameras have been calibrated to detect this indiscretion, and secretly hope for more automated detection technologies, eg tail gating cameras.

I am also pleased that the OP will be making a voluntary taxation instalment to prop up Mr Barr’s revenue. Voluntary because if you don’t do the crime, you don’t get the fine!

7
tim_c 1:37 pm
07 Mar 17
#

You moved forward after being stopped for 20 seconds? Sounds like you weren’t really paying attention (on the phone perhaps?) and it’s a good thing you didn’t happen to move right into the path of traffic legally in the intersection.

With your front wheels 10cm beyond the hold line (I’m assuming that’s 10cm measured from the contact patch, not the front edge) combined with the front overhang of your vehicle means that you were likely obstructing part of the pedestrian crossing which in the least is discourteous.

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