5 August 2008

Attempted suicide in Isabella Plains standoff with Police

| Cameron
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ABC is reporting that there was a police standoff with a man in a vehicle on Isabella Dr.

It ended with the man shooting himself. He is now in Canberra Hospital.

Story here.

UPDATED: The police statement is in the latest police wrap.

ANOTHER UPDATE: Police now reporting that he expired this morning.

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Are we all sure these people are for real??

Whenever somebody sadly shoots themselves or dies in a street racing accident we get someone coming on here with bizarre names who writes like they didn’t make it into primary school blaming everyone else. Surely someone is taking the p*ss.

i like the bit were PRIP goes and complains everyones talking about pierre on a website and he himself is fueling the threading fire.

And yeah, if i was him, knew he had a gun and was suicidal-i wouldn’t trust the police telepathy and actually report it so that i’d have my mate around for a lot longer.
I don’t think anything the police did contributed to this bloke having a bad life and in turn ending it.

Shannski, you sound like a very reasonable person and i feel sorry for you loosing your friend-all the best to you.
As for PRIP, you yourself have some issues you need to sort out, i understand your loss but you don’t go taking out personal threats to someone you don’t know over the net, and blaming others for their own decisions

And DJ, I totally agree with your comments, you would def rat out your friend to help them no matter what, and if you were the friend you say you were, you’d def spell their name right!!!

I’m not sure how anybody can ever blame anybody else for a suicide. It’s hardly a ‘look what you made me do’ crime. From what I’ve heard this bloke had problems but solving them at the point of a gun is never an answer. You’d also have to question why Pierre had a gun in his boot in the first place. It’s hardly an approved storage facility for such things.

peire_rest_in_paradise.

I understand Pierre may have been your friend, I knew him for 12 years, But This is a forum, And your behavior on here is disgraceful, You made Pierre look bad, you made the police look bad, and you made yourself look like a complete and utter idiot.

I wonder if PRIP has deliberately misspelled Pierre?

Very sad…
for all involved. What about the young girl that was with him.
Anyone thought how she has been effected???

Deadmandrinking10:07 am 08 Aug 08

I second mdme’s comments, though I will say in response to DJ’s comment, if this bloke did know about the shotgun…well, most young men tend not to dob in their mates. It’s part of the whole loyalty thing. Whilst to some looking in from the outside, this may seem stupid, but for a lot of young people, they feel they can trust themselves and their mates than they can the police. Sometimes this is even justified.

However, that was not the case here, as far as I can see. The police couldn’t have searched the vehicle legally, they wouldn’t have had a whiff of this until the final moment. I’m sure the attacks against police from this guy have come out of grief and anguish more than anything. It’s hard losing someone you know to suicide. I know the feeling personally as well. I hope his friends and family and anyone else involved, including the police, get the support and love they need to get through what must be an incredibly tough time.

Why do people think they’re doing favours to their friends by whiteknighting in with such ‘logical arguments’ on RiotACT?

There was very little doubt in my mind that this topic would produce one or two candidates.

I think we have a strong early entry for our monthly award.

peire_rest_in_paradise said :

the man that shot him self was a friend of mine and hes girl friend has been my friend for years, he was going through a very rough time and has been scuicidal for some time and the police know this, bout 2 months ago he was done for unlicend driving and was taking to the police station held over night he had hes 22 shot gun in hes car boot the police never searched hes car and i can say the car woulda been to some interest to them if the police had of done their jobs then maybe a young man would be still alive coz the 22 was the same weapon he used 2 shoot him self

So police didn’t do their jobs by illegally searching your friend’s car for a gun they didn’t know existed? Okaaay…

mdme workalot9:16 am 08 Aug 08

Gotta agree with DJ’s post here PRIP – why are the police to blame when you (as his friend) did not do anything to try and stop this? Don’t get me wrong – I don’t think you should have done anything drastic and I don’t think you should blame yourself for his death but I don’t understand why you think the police should have done an illegal search (which they would get flamed for as they would have had no probable cause) for a weapon that they legally had no knowledge this guy possessed (as I understand it).

The police are not miracle workers, and they cannot save everyone, particularly those who do not want to be saved. I feel sorry that you lost a friend and this was a senseless waste of a young life, but I think you need to realise that in all likelihood the police could not have done anything other than what they did to try and save this guy.

But what reasons would the police have had to search the car?

Not a requirement for someone that’s been booked for driving unlicenced IIRC.

peire_rest_in_paradise4:39 am 08 Aug 08

DJ said :

peire_rest_in_paradise said :

the man that shot him self was a friend of mine and hes girl friend has been my friend for years, he was going through a very rough time and has been scuicidal for some time and the police know this, bout 2 months ago he was done for unlicend driving and was taking to the police station held over night he had hes 22 shot gun in hes car boot the police never searched hes car and i can say the car woulda been to some interest to them if the police had of done their jobs then maybe a young man would be still alive coz the 22 was the same weapon he used 2 shoot him self

“…if the police had of done their jobs then maybe a young man would be still alive…”

You are a complete fool – time for a reality check ya goose.

So, you knew he had a gun in his car. You knew he had problems? Why didn’t you say something to Police yourself? He could be alive today because of your help. Some mate you are – do you think a simple call to Crime Stoppers or the Police where you don’t leave your name might have helped?

I hope your mates don’t rely on you for anything more serious than a shout at the bar.

what do you know you dont know shit, the police already knew he was scuicidal i dont condone hes behavior but it makes me sick thinking a bunch of people are talking bout it on the internet, are the goose u just see a man topping him self in the article and think wow this is interesting lets make comments bout him on the net, and no it wasnt a normal person he was some one special unlike u go fuck your self u loser

peire_rest_in_paradise said :

the man that shot him self was a friend of mine and hes girl friend has been my friend for years, he was going through a very rough time and has been scuicidal for some time and the police know this, bout 2 months ago he was done for unlicend driving and was taking to the police station held over night he had hes 22 shot gun in hes car boot the police never searched hes car and i can say the car woulda been to some interest to them if the police had of done their jobs then maybe a young man would be still alive coz the 22 was the same weapon he used 2 shoot him self

“…if the police had of done their jobs then maybe a young man would be still alive…”

You are a complete fool – time for a reality check ya goose.

So, you knew he had a gun in his car. You knew he had problems? Why didn’t you say something to Police yourself? He could be alive today because of your help. Some mate you are – do you think a simple call to Crime Stoppers or the Police where you don’t leave your name might have helped?

I hope your mates don’t rely on you for anything more serious than a shout at the bar.

peire_rest_in_paradise1:50 am 08 Aug 08

the man that shot him self was a friend of mine and hes girl friend has been my friend for years, he was going through a very rough time and has been scuicidal for some time and the police know this, bout 2 months ago he was done for unlicend driving and was taking to the police station held over night he had hes 22 shot gun in hes car boot the police never searched hes car and i can say the car woulda been to some interest to them if the police had of done their jobs then maybe a young man would be still alive coz the 22 was the same weapon he used 2 shoot him self

I read in the Canberra Times today that he was 24 years old and an ex Calwell High School student. Apart from anything else, ie the tragedy of another young man ending his life, just wondering what the relevance of which school he went to at least 8 years ago is? I mean, if he was 50 years old would they still say he went to such and such high school? I worked in a Pizza Hut 25 years ago but I certainly wouldn’t be putting it on my resume…

there seems to be some interesting discourse on the CT comments as well.

“Again it comes down to the government and the civil libertarians who recommended the closure of psych wards and hospitals. I was lucky that I had a good dr. to help me. The govt certainly needs to look at themselves very carefully.
Posted by charlie on 7/08/2008 11:34:11 AM

It’s started already! Of course Charlie – it’s the government’s fault for not mentally screening everyone in the ACT and stopping these things before they happen.
Posted by James on 7/08/2008 12:09:20 PM”

Mentally screening everyone?
now that is going a bit too far, isn’t it?
who will foot the bill?

Timberwolf655:24 pm 07 Aug 08

This is a terrible tragedy, I just don’t understand how a 24 year old can shoot them self like that, What caused him to want to threaten his girlfriend?
What was he doing with a gun?

These are things we will never find out I guess. I remember my life as a 24year old and shooting myself was one thing I never though about doing.
Kids grow up to quick these days and they seem to carry the weight of the world on their shoulders.

I feel sorry for everyone involved.

I feel a bit sorry for the negotiator too… can’t feel great to have someone refuse to talk to you anymore and then shoot themself.

hmmm… I was close! 😉

Timberwolf656:12 am 07 Aug 08

Calm your jets Headbonius, but thanks for spelling it all out for me!!!

Timberwolf65 – do you need everything spelt out for you? Read todays Canberra Times……front page,right hand coloumn. Is that clear enough for you?

Timberwolf651:25 am 07 Aug 08

Why were the police interested in this car/these people in the first place? Were they speeding or what??

Madman said :

Cameron said :

And you would know this because?

Yeah I’m really sick of people saying my ideas are wrong.

Back it up if you say it is wrong… Otherwise you can forget your post! :-@

Yeah, that’s a fair call.

I know it’s wrong because I know the details of the incident due to my employment. Wasn’t bagging you, was just stating that you are wrong!

FC said :

this is really sad. Another young male life gone.
Does anyone know what high school this lad went to? (when he was younger)

He went to Calwell High

personally, I don’t give a bugger why the Australian Federal Police’s Professional Standards Unit is involved. I think what is far more important is why this person had access to a firearm, and where he got it from.

if the AFP find a common link between what has happened, and where the firearm came from, we might be able to prevent this happening again, if there was a black market involvement.

Cameron said :

Yes. I’ve no problem with someone establishing a fact if they can prove it (or how/why they know it). It is a bit silly to allude to knowing more without being willing to elaborate enough so that it can be accepted. Otherwise it just gets treated like the rest – unsubstantiated rumour/assumption/guesswork – aka “You are way off the mark. Way Off. Because my guess is better than yours.”

LOL! What Cam said!

I can say I know the mans name aswell! doesn’t mean it’s true… hasn’t that go you thinking now… maybe I know who it was… ooohhh…… just as substantiated as the other rejections!

Yes. I’ve no problem with someone establishing a fact if they can prove it (or how/why they know it). It is a bit silly to allude to knowing more without being willing to elaborate enough so that it can be accepted. Otherwise it just gets treated like the rest – unsubstantiated rumour/assumption/guesswork – aka “You are way off the mark. Way Off. Because my guess is better than yours.”

Cameron said :

And you would know this because?

Yeah I’m really sick of people saying my ideas are wrong.

Back it up if you say it is wrong… Otherwise you can forget your post! :-@

And you would know this because?

Madman said :

It is interesting to see in the Police update that “The investigation will also be overviewed by the Australian Federal Police’s Professional Standards Unit”

I would assume that means a police weapon was discharged.

Also I’m tinkering that the gun that was used to inflict self harm was a police officers weapon… What was recently reported was “illegedly refused to exit and armed himself with a firearm while the driver exited the vehicle without incident”
Says a firearm which arrouses my suspicion that the offender might have grabbed an officers gun. That and the Professional Standards are being involved.

You are way off the mark. Way way off.

this is really sad. Another young male life gone.
Does anyone know what high school this lad went to? (when he was younger)

NoAddedMSG said :

It’s pretty common with suicide to plan in advance of the actual attempt how you are going to do it, and then set out to get the means of carrying out your plan. They are not often impluse things. Which is why, when faced with a possibly suicidal person you start by asking them if they are considering killing themselves, and if the answer is yes, you move on to asking if they have a specific plan, what they have done towards achieving the plan, and if they have tried before.

I have had a couple of friends over the years have ended their lives. One stepped out in front of a truck on a highway. he was walking with friends. no warning, he just stepped out, turned and smiled at us as he was struck.

not pretty, and we all agonised over what we could have done to prevent him doing this.

He was upbeat, had scored a great new job in his particular field, and was on the up and up.

It’s pretty common with suicide to plan in advance of the actual attempt how you are going to do it, and then set out to get the means of carrying out your plan. They are not often impluse things. Which is why, when faced with a possibly suicidal person you start by asking them if they are considering killing themselves, and if the answer is yes, you move on to asking if they have a specific plan, what they have done towards achieving the plan, and if they have tried before.

regardless of what has happened, he has died, and this is a loss to those who knew him.

In regards to the comment re the firearm, how was it that he had a firearm? I would have thought that the tightening of the gun laws would have specifically been targeted to eliminate this kind of risk of harm?

and also, prior to the police stepping in, what was his intention regarding the firearm?

was the presence of the police too much, and facilitated this terrible end?

I feel for you shannski. I really do.

I hope that you have support and are able to gain closure at some stage.

this is probably the worst kind of thing to happen to a friend, from an emotional perspective – don’t beat yourself up about it, there was probably nothing that you could have done.

In hindsight, we all think – why didn’t I see the signs, why wasn’t I there as more of a friend, I could have done more.

truth is, even if the signs were there, you may have not even seen them. I’m not saying you aren’t observant, but sometimes, they are so subtle, you miss them.

DJ said :

Why did he have a firearm?

I honestly dont know.

Shannski said :

It’s a shocking thing to happen to anyone, I see suicide as selfish, but I can also see how it can all get to much to cope with.

I went to school with this person, And last year we lost another school friend to suicide.

These 2 were very good friends, I found it hard to cope after the death last year, but this person found it far more difficult.

Why did he have a firearm?

Shannski, I am so sorry. I hope you have some good people around you at this difficult time.

Does anyone have a link to past enquiries?

I have enough time on my hands! LOL

thecman said :

JB – I did not accuse you of writing Waltzing Matilda – as you well know. You still have not answered my question which was based on your editorial comment that suicide is a long and noble Australian tradition. Again, why is shooting oneself in the head a long and noble Australian tradition? What do you base that claim on?

Rather specifically referring to suicide when the law catches up.

Waltzing Matilda, Waltzing Matilda.

You do know what it’s about right?

We wrote a song about it and then we kept singing it, good enough for me.

Most inquests are held in public, but the court can make them private. The outcomes of inquests are not normally published (some high profile cases I think have been made publically available), and you need to be a family member to gain access to the decisions.

Madman coronial inquests are open to the public and their findings are published online for anyone with enough time on their hands to read them.

They’re very independent as Mr Stanhope recently discovered to his peril.

thecman said :

Hey Madman – Inquests conducted by the Coroner are open to the public, reported in the media and full transcripts of all evidence and the final report are available to the public. Try and lighten up on the conspiracy theories. I can just about guarantee that you are a long, long way off base regarding your initial assertions. If the deceased had stolen a Police firearm and shot himself with it then that is how it would have been reported in the ACT Policing media release. What would the Police have to gain by hiding that fact? If anything it would go to show the dangerous behaviour of the individual they were trying to deal with.

Hmmm… Someone that knows something!

Where are they available and what process needs to be undertaken when available?

I would have thought they wouldn’t report it straight away and investigate it first before making anything like that public so that it shows it has been investigated and that there are answers for all the questions to show care was taken in the lead up.
Things happen. Also the way the media release was written caused me to speculate that 0 said they he “armed himself with a firearm” the “a” got me thinking.

Just what I thought but I agree that its only specultation and could most probably be wrong.

It’s a shocking thing to happen to anyone, I see suicide as selfish, but I can also see how it can all get to much to cope with.

I went to school with this person, And last year we lost another school friend to suicide.

These 2 were very good friends, I found it hard to cope after the death last year, but this person found it far more difficult.

Hey Madman – Inquests conducted by the Coroner are open to the public, reported in the media and full transcripts of all evidence and the final report are available to the public. Try and lighten up on the conspiracy theories. I can just about guarantee that you are a long, long way off base regarding your initial assertions. If the deceased had stolen a Police firearm and shot himself with it then that is how it would have been reported in the ACT Policing media release. What would the Police have to gain by hiding that fact? If anything it would go to show the dangerous behaviour of the individual they were trying to deal with.

JB – I did not accuse you of writing Waltzing Matilda – as you well know. You still have not answered my question which was based on your editorial comment that suicide is a long and noble Australian tradition. Again, why is shooting oneself in the head a long and noble Australian tradition? What do you base that claim on?

FB said :

Your taking a WILD jump to conclusions there Madman. I’d sugest you arm yourself with a parachute with that kind of leap.

As DJ said the AFP PSU invistage all circumstances where police are invlolved in a major incident, death or not. They make sure the officers involved did everything properly & by the book. Helps in court if their actions ever get questioned.

That’s why they call me the Madman!!! 😉
We’ll see if my speculations are on target soon enough! Even if it did happen that way – I don’t think we would be told. Wonder if you can get a Coroners Report under FOI or some other way? Wouldn’t it be a public record as the Privacy Act on a dead person is ceased…

Granny said :

neanderthalsis said :

CAN I BE THE FIRST (and hopefully the last) TO TYPE IN ALLCAPS BLAMING THE POLICE, SOCIETY, CAPITALISM, THE ROMAN EMPIRE AND JOHN HOWARD FOR THE FACT THAT THIS BLOKE TOPPED HIMSELF?

Youth suicide is a real problem facing this country though. There must be some factors that we can address as a society to improve the situation. Why are so many of our Aussie kids ending their lives in comparison with other nations? On the surface it would seem to be a pretty good country with a pretty good way of life.

This was unlikely to be your garden variety youth suicide… not that many ‘normal’ people have access to firearms…. let’s wait to see if he is known to Police or other…

You may also be a bit inaccurate, but don’t let that stop you.

On reading my last comment I may have been a bit harsh. Replace “greedy” with “selfish”.

Granny said :

neanderthalsis said :

CAN I BE THE FIRST (and hopefully the last) TO TYPE IN ALLCAPS BLAMING THE POLICE, SOCIETY, CAPITALISM, THE ROMAN EMPIRE AND JOHN HOWARD FOR THE FACT THAT THIS BLOKE TOPPED HIMSELF?

Youth suicide is a real problem facing this country though. There must be some factors that we can address as a society to improve the situation. Why are so many of our Aussie kids ending their lives in comparison with other nations? On the surface it would seem to be a pretty good country with a pretty good way of life.

Because greedy baby-boomers like yourself brought it upon us generation y/x’ers. Only gonna get worse once you all retire and we have to support you.

Your taking a WILD jump to conclusions there Madman. I’d sugest you arm yourself with a parachute with that kind of leap.

As DJ said the AFP PSU invistage all circumstances where police are invlolved in a major incident, death or not. They make sure the officers involved did everything properly & by the book. Helps in court if their actions ever get questioned.

neanderthalsis said :

CAN I BE THE FIRST (and hopefully the last) TO TYPE IN ALLCAPS BLAMING THE POLICE, SOCIETY, CAPITALISM, THE ROMAN EMPIRE AND JOHN HOWARD FOR THE FACT THAT THIS BLOKE TOPPED HIMSELF?

Youth suicide is a real problem facing this country though. There must be some factors that we can address as a society to improve the situation. Why are so many of our Aussie kids ending their lives in comparison with other nations? On the surface it would seem to be a pretty good country with a pretty good way of life.

All incidents involving circumstances such as these are investigated by more than one area – again the levels of oversight Police are subjected to are clearly there for all to see.

Somebody dies and the coroner becomes involved. The deceased was in direct contact with Police… therefore… “The investigation will also be overviewed by the Australian Federal Police’s Professional Standards Unit”

It is interesting to see in the Police update that “The investigation will also be overviewed by the Australian Federal Police’s Professional Standards Unit”

I would assume that means a police weapon was discharged.

Also I’m tinkering that the gun that was used to inflict self harm was a police officers weapon… What was recently reported was “illegedly refused to exit and armed himself with a firearm while the driver exited the vehicle without incident”
Says a firearm which arrouses my suspicion that the offender might have grabbed an officers gun. That and the Professional Standards are being involved.

Skidbladnir said :

Do we have a source or confirmation for that, V8-Prius or Johnboy?
(So the headline is wrong, and its no longer an attempt?)

Fixed and confirmed.

The answer is…. POSSIBLY!

neanderthalsis3:32 pm 05 Aug 08

CAN I BE THE FIRST (and hopefully the last) TO TYPE IN ALLCAPS BLAMING THE POLICE, SOCIETY, CAPITALISM, THE ROMAN EMPIRE AND JOHN HOWARD FOR THE FACT THAT THIS BLOKE TOPPED HIMSELF?

I feel really sad every time I drive past the one in Ngunnawal because somebody obviously loves and misses him so much (I guess I’m presuming his mother). It makes me want to comfort her.

Lets build another memorial to some wanker (oops – poor victim of society) who couldn’t man up to what he had done so shot himself instead. Seems a trend is forming – those who fit the category pay attention it’s the only socially responsible thing to do.

Do we have a source or confirmation for that, V8-Prius or Johnboy?
(So the headline is wrong, and its no longer an attempt?)

Or, what did he have on him that was worth killing himself over? (Aside from a loaded weapon, i mean…)

It raises the question: What did the police have on him that was worth killing himself over?

He’s dead.

I don’t understand what you mean Prius… :-s

Just heard on 2CA that he is brown bread.

I would suggest the person is question may have been on the phone to TTWBT………God kill me now.

Why am i now picturing Todd Carney in a stand off with the police in the toilet of All Bar Nun, threatening to piss on an innocent bystander and in the end pissing on himself when he realises he is not getting out of this.

dang – i just posted this story – a day late.

LOL turn your back and we’ll go Carney all over ya! Then you’ll want to “(sing from this point)Waltzing Matilda with me….(quickly add)and Johnboy…”

thecman said :

JB – are you suggesting suicide is a long and noble Australian tradition? I hope you aren’t, but it certainly appears as though you are. If so, I wonder if you could let us know exactly what is noble about shooting oneself?

Dude, I didn’t write our national song.

Don’t like it, turn your back when they play Waltzing Matilda.

grunge_hippy10:24 pm 04 Aug 08

i wondered what it was… there are still police there now. Made getting out of isabella plains onto drakeford just that little trickier than normal…

I live in the area it happened and I have been asked by people who talk then think…

LOL love that last fact!! Thanks for clearing that up DJ!!! Wouldn’t have guessed! Maan, what would I have done without your attention to detail!!!

🙂

I guess we’ll all have to wait this out until the facts are made public… assume to your hearts content but this may have only minor relevance to the DJ incident (obviously not me).

JB – are you suggesting suicide is a long and noble Australian tradition? I hope you aren’t, but it certainly appears as though you are. If so, I wonder if you could let us know exactly what is noble about shooting oneself?

dragonflygal9:51 pm 04 Aug 08

Madman there is a memorial on Gundaroo Drive, a tree and flowers planted by the family of a woman who I think was killed by a drink driver.

The guys building the road and roundabout have been instructed to keep it alive, and replant it in the middle of the round about – it’s apparently drawn into the plans as well.

Hey… I wonder what you have to do to get rid of memorials.
Like imagine if one was right out the front of your house… You wouldn’t want it there…

What if it was on a major road and the gumberment decided to duplicate the road again and it was in the way? Just something I was thinkin about the other day… The life I live! LOL

so, thats what happened?? i heard something about shooting in isabella plains, and just thought “yep, sounds like a typical day in isabella..”

it was such an arse getting home because of it..

Oh no he will become a legend like that druggie in Ngunnawal who has a memorial beside the road.

    Up rode the Squatter a riding his thoroughbred
    Up rode the Trooper – one, two, three
    “Where’s that jumbuck you’ve got in your tucker bag?”,
    “You’ll come a-waltzing Matilda with me”.

    But the swagman he up and jumped in the water hole
    Drowning himself by the Coolabah tree,
    And his ghost may be heard as it sings in the Billabong,
    “Who’ll come a-waltzing Matilda with me?”

Long and noble Australian tradition

wow… I was there just as they closed the road…

scary – will be interesting to see if this person survived and the reason for inflicting a gunshot wound to himself….

Deadmandrinking9:14 pm 04 Aug 08

Eerily similar to something else…

Missed by that much 99

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