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Back to the Future – Frightening

By John Hargreaves 12 September 2014 45

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In the 1960s was a perceived threat to Australia from the “Yellow Peril” coming down the Indo-China peninsula.

We had seen the Korean War, the communist insurgents in Malaysia on the border with Thailand and the Vietnam War had just kicked off.

My father, the Air Force officer, was a strident anti-communist and whilst he didn’t talk much about wars and stuff, he made it clear that there was a real threat to Australia. He firmly believed in the forward defence philosophy to counter the Domino Theory whereby the communists were taking over the countries in Asia one by one on their way here. We had to stop that advance before it got here.

By the time I was 19, the Vietnam War was in full swing and national service was on. My number didn’t come up but, believing in my father’s vehemence and patriotism, I volunteered to go in to the Army for two years to “do my bit”.

History later proved the war was wrong, the military philosophy was wrong and the politics were wrong. So too was I and I had sacrificed two years of my life for something that was wrong.

Don’t misunderstand me though. My respect and affection for Vietnam vets is unlimited. They were pawns as I was.
You’d reckon we’d learn something from this mistake, wouldn’t you? Nuh!

The first thing Australia did in the Vietnam War was to send in “training teams” to help the South Vietnamese Army defend themselves. Keith Payne VC is the most famous of those trainers. It was called the AATTV – the Australian Army Training Team Vietnam.

What is our PM doing now? Sending training teams to the Middle East as well as Air Force assistance with humanitarian drops and arms drops to the side we support.

It is the thin edge of the wedge. Next will be a squadron of SAS soldiers who are operational, not trainers. Then it will be a battalion. Then the body bag count will start.

I spent 40 years in guilt over my “bit” in the Vietnam War era and I don’t want that to happen again. I don’t want our kids being used as political pawns in a conflict which can only end in more lives being lost and our own security here being compromised.

This issue is not funny anymore. It is scary and we should not be anywhere near it.


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Back to the Future – Frightening
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dungfungus 2:16 pm 16 Sep 14

Scribble said :

If you want to stop heads rolling around the desert, talk to the Saudis:

http://www.news.com.au/world/middle-east/beheadings-at-record-levels-saudi-arabia-executes-dozens-in-deadly-august/story-fnh81ifq-1227037172765

Two points.
The Saudis are not executing their criminals in the desert. They are very public. This is the way it has been for a thousand years. Amnesty claim there has been a surge in beheadings but the report indicated clearly that this is a response to multiple arrests of drug dealers.
Secondly, the people being beheaded are criminals, not captured foreign journalists or soldiers.
BTW, I haven’t seen Amnesty protesting outside the Saudi Arabian Embassy in Yarralumla so do they really care?.

dungfungus 2:05 pm 16 Sep 14

miz said :

Atrocities are committed every day somewhere in the world. We don’t have to put troops on the ground to ‘prove’ we don’t support such atrocities.

Well, the statements and “actions” by the UN haven’t been spectacularly successful, have they.
And when the enemy knock down your front door don’t expect any concessions because you were not opposing their cause.

miz 1:26 pm 16 Sep 14

Atrocities are committed every day somewhere in the world. We don’t have to put troops on the ground to ‘prove’ we don’t support such atrocities.

dungfungus 9:23 am 16 Sep 14

miz said :

I disagree with those who assert ‘we are already involved’. No, we are not – we do not have a common border, we are not in fact anywhere within cooee of Syria. We can keep our own country safe without going anywhere. We could go so far as providing humanitarian support if there was a need (we could do the same for, eg, the ‘holocaust’ (Kirby’s word) going on in N Korea right now, though of course there is no oil there…)
But to my mind there is absolutely no justification for military intervention whatsoever in the ISIS conflict. And I chucked in N Korea simply to point out the hypocrisy of the present policy makers. Similarly I don’t see Australia offering to put people on the ground in Ukraine or Gaza. They are simply not our business.

How many more severed heads do you want to see rolling in the desert to convince you otherwise?

miz 10:31 pm 15 Sep 14

I disagree with those who assert ‘we are already involved’. No, we are not – we do not have a common border, we are not in fact anywhere within cooee of Syria. We can keep our own country safe without going anywhere. We could go so far as providing humanitarian support if there was a need (we could do the same for, eg, the ‘holocaust’ (Kirby’s word) going on in N Korea right now, though of course there is no oil there…)
But to my mind there is absolutely no justification for military intervention whatsoever in the ISIS conflict. And I chucked in N Korea simply to point out the hypocrisy of the present policy makers. Similarly I don’t see Australia offering to put people on the ground in Ukraine or Gaza. They are simply not our business.

dungfungus 6:45 pm 15 Sep 14

John Hargreaves Ex MLA said :

gazket said :

“we should not be anywhere near it”

Too late for that John we are now a great multicultural society. In the Vietnam war there were not any Australian born North Koreans planning attacks against Australia or going back home to kill our soldiers . Australia is now exporting home grown terrorists and suicide bombers. Only a matter of time before some sort of Jihadist attack happens here in Australia if nothing is done.

You think Australia should do nothing , you are p$ss weak.

I would like to address a few points in this thread.

Firstly, I respect the views of people who differ from my own. I don’t like the idea of inciting people and I don’t like the idea of jumping ahead in the queue for the attention of these terrorists.

I made no suggestion that this was a political issue for me. I disagree with the stances of both sides of the political divide.

There have been a few nasty posts aimed at me personally seemingly to suggest that I should not hold a view on the world terrorist position let alone voice my fears.

Further, my military service has been questioned. I volunteered not for regular army service but for National Service, ie two years. How I came to be there matters not. What matters is that I was the victim of lying propaganda.

Having someone suggest that were I to be a hostage, that no-one would pay a ransom, is puerile and belittling of the writer. We have never met and thus the writer is in no position to make such a nasty comment.

The simple facts for me are that we have begun an escalation of a military solution to a problem which for us should not exist. I see no threat to Switzerland, a neutral county closer than we are. Why we blindly follow the US into wars which have no real relevance to us.

I had thought that dunfungus had developed some sort of civility in his/her writings but sadly I was wrong. But I have been attacked personally by experts and have survived. dungfungus does not rank among them. I can tell an amateur when I read one, but I can’t tell them much.

Describing those with opposing views as p$ss weak is the sort of comment expected of the illiterate bogan.

John, I said the bit about the hostage as a joke. I find it difficult to believe you have taken it seriously and if you have I apologise.
We all know the Labor party would have been able to pass the hat around to rescue you. The Labor Clubs alone would have been good for $500K in any one year.

dungfungus 6:40 pm 15 Sep 14

davo101 said :

dungfungus said :

If you are referring to the Vinegar Hill uprising then it is no where near an example of a “terrorist attack”

It’s as close as yours.

Surely you can do better than that.

HiddenDragon 6:35 pm 15 Sep 14

In some respects, this is an argument for an independent (of the US) foreign policy – something which would surely require the expenditure of a much larger proportion of national income on defence than this nation has ever been willing, or politically able, to do in peace-time. In saying this, I have in mind comments such as this, from former Secretary, and potential future President, Clinton:

http://www.smh.com.au/world/hillary-clinton-criticises-australia-for-twotiming-america-with-china-20140627-zso6c.html

I doubt whether that would be a uniquely-held view in Washington.

Regardless of what a narrower view of national self-interest might suggest, we must either – from time to time – prove our loyalty and usefulness in the western alliance, or start paying much higher taxes and get used to receiving much less from government in benefits and day to day services (and also contemplate the prospect of national service) in order build and maintain a somewhat larger and better equipped defence force.

justin heywood 6:12 pm 15 Sep 14

John Hargreaves Ex MLA said :

I made no suggestion that this was a political issue for me. I disagree with the stances of both sides of the political divide.

Well yes you did make this political John, both in this post (‘ What is our PM doing now?” ) and in previous posts on the topic (e.g. ‘State of Fear’), where you accused the current government of deliberately ramping up anti-Muslin hysteria.

John Hargreaves Ex MLA said :

There have been a few nasty posts aimed at me personally seemingly to suggest that I should not hold a view on the world terrorist position let alone voice my fears.

Further, my military service has been questioned…

I did not ‘question’ your military service John. But you spent three paragraphs discussing it, so I assume that you thought it would add weight to your argument. I implied that your military experience as a private 50 years ago was hardly relevant to Australian foreign policy today.

John Hargreaves Ex MLA said :

The simple facts for me are that we have begun an escalation of a military solution to a problem which for us should not exist. I see no threat to Switzerland, a neutral county closer than we are. Why we blindly follow the US into wars which have no real relevance to us.

But we ARE involved in it John. Western countries are seen as the enemy of IS, and we are a western country. They have promised to bring their battle to us. If we want to become Switzerland, we’ve left it a bit late.

John Hargreaves Ex MLA said :

Describing those with opposing views as p$ss weak is the sort of comment expected of the illiterate bogan.

Perhaps it’s just me John, but I am always puzzled when you take offence to things written about you on this board. To me, your posts are generally hostile polemics against your political enemies. It’s hardly surprising that people return the hostility.

John Hargreaves Ex MLA 5:30 pm 15 Sep 14

gazket said :

“we should not be anywhere near it”

Too late for that John we are now a great multicultural society. In the Vietnam war there were not any Australian born North Koreans planning attacks against Australia or going back home to kill our soldiers . Australia is now exporting home grown terrorists and suicide bombers. Only a matter of time before some sort of Jihadist attack happens here in Australia if nothing is done.

You think Australia should do nothing , you are p$ss weak.

I would like to address a few points in this thread.

Firstly, I respect the views of people who differ from my own. I don’t like the idea of inciting people and I don’t like the idea of jumping ahead in the queue for the attention of these terrorists.

I made no suggestion that this was a political issue for me. I disagree with the stances of both sides of the political divide.

There have been a few nasty posts aimed at me personally seemingly to suggest that I should not hold a view on the world terrorist position let alone voice my fears.

Further, my military service has been questioned. I volunteered not for regular army service but for National Service, ie two years. How I came to be there matters not. What matters is that I was the victim of lying propaganda.

Having someone suggest that were I to be a hostage, that no-one would pay a ransom, is puerile and belittling of the writer. We have never met and thus the writer is in no position to make such a nasty comment.

The simple facts for me are that we have begun an escalation of a military solution to a problem which for us should not exist. I see no threat to Switzerland, a neutral county closer than we are. Why we blindly follow the US into wars which have no real relevance to us.

I had thought that dunfungus had developed some sort of civility in his/her writings but sadly I was wrong. But I have been attacked personally by experts and have survived. dungfungus does not rank among them. I can tell an amateur when I read one, but I can’t tell them much.

Describing those with opposing views as p$ss weak is the sort of comment expected of the illiterate bogan.

gazket 3:47 pm 15 Sep 14

“we should not be anywhere near it”

Too late for that John we are now a great multicultural society. In the Vietnam war there were not any Australian born North Koreans planning attacks against Australia or going back home to kill our soldiers . Australia is now exporting home grown terrorists and suicide bombers. Only a matter of time before some sort of Jihadist attack happens here in Australia if nothing is done.

You think Australia should do nothing , you are p$ss weak.

davo101 2:55 pm 15 Sep 14

dungfungus said :

If you are referring to the Vinegar Hill uprising then it is no where near an example of a “terrorist attack”

It’s as close as yours.

dungfungus 2:45 pm 15 Sep 14

Steven Bailey said :

dungfungus said :

Steven Bailey said :

Masquara said :

In between posting your rants, John Hargreaves, do you read up on what’s going on in the world?

dungfungus said :

I am sure you won’t be a hostage target John because no one would pay the ransom.

Have some respect.

I have the greatest respect for the Riot Act moderators. They saw the satire which you didn’t.

A satirical comment would be something like this: Dungfungus’ comments are certainly not stupid, offensive, and pointless.

That’s a bit deep for me but if it was meant to nice, thank you.

dungfungus 12:52 pm 15 Sep 14

davo101 said :

dungfungus said :

It would appear that the 1850s would be the time Afghans came to Australia and two of them were responsible for carrying out Australia’s first terrorist attack 99 years ago.
Imagine how many would have been killed if an RPG was used.
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/the-battle-of-broken-hill-113650077/?no-ist

I thought the first terrorist attack in Australia was by the Irish in 1804.

If you are referring to the Vinegar Hill uprising then it is no where near an example of a “terrorist attack”
Even the left leaning ABC and Al Grassby couldn’t put that much spin on it and they settled for an “armed rebellion”.
The presence of an “Irish rebel” doesn’t mean it was “by the Irish” either.
http://www.abc.net.au/tv/rewind/txt/s1209455.htm
Up until now I treated any comment you made with a lot credit but after this effort I will put the “fact checker” over everything you say.

Steven Bailey 12:19 pm 15 Sep 14

dungfungus said :

Steven Bailey said :

Masquara said :

In between posting your rants, John Hargreaves, do you read up on what’s going on in the world?

dungfungus said :

I am sure you won’t be a hostage target John because no one would pay the ransom.

Have some respect.

I have the greatest respect for the Riot Act moderators. They saw the satire which you didn’t.

A satirical comment would be something like this: Dungfungus’ comments are certainly not stupid, offensive, and pointless.

switch 11:39 am 15 Sep 14

dungfungus said :

I am not aware of one by the “Irish” in 1804 (or anytime) so please advise details.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_Hill_convict_rebellion (which I’m pleased to say my ancestors steered clear of).

dungfungus 11:19 am 15 Sep 14

davo101 said :

dungfungus said :

It would appear that the 1850s would be the time Afghans came to Australia and two of them were responsible for carrying out Australia’s first terrorist attack 99 years ago.
Imagine how many would have been killed if an RPG was used.
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/the-battle-of-broken-hill-113650077/?no-ist

I thought the first terrorist attack in Australia was by the Irish in 1804.

I am not aware of one by the “Irish” in 1804 (or anytime) so please advise details.

davo101 9:37 am 15 Sep 14

dungfungus said :

It would appear that the 1850s would be the time Afghans came to Australia and two of them were responsible for carrying out Australia’s first terrorist attack 99 years ago.
Imagine how many would have been killed if an RPG was used.
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/the-battle-of-broken-hill-113650077/?no-ist

I thought the first terrorist attack in Australia was by the Irish in 1804.

Mysteryman 9:29 am 15 Sep 14

Steven Bailey said :

Masquara said :

In between posting your rants, John Hargreaves, do you read up on what’s going on in the world?

dungfungus said :

I am sure you won’t be a hostage target John because no one would pay the ransom.

Have some respect.

Have some awareness.

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