19 April 2016

Back to the Future – Frightening

| John Hargreaves
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In the 1960s was a perceived threat to Australia from the “Yellow Peril” coming down the Indo-China peninsula.

We had seen the Korean War, the communist insurgents in Malaysia on the border with Thailand and the Vietnam War had just kicked off.

My father, the Air Force officer, was a strident anti-communist and whilst he didn’t talk much about wars and stuff, he made it clear that there was a real threat to Australia. He firmly believed in the forward defence philosophy to counter the Domino Theory whereby the communists were taking over the countries in Asia one by one on their way here. We had to stop that advance before it got here.

By the time I was 19, the Vietnam War was in full swing and national service was on. My number didn’t come up but, believing in my father’s vehemence and patriotism, I volunteered to go in to the Army for two years to “do my bit”.

History later proved the war was wrong, the military philosophy was wrong and the politics were wrong. So too was I and I had sacrificed two years of my life for something that was wrong.

Don’t misunderstand me though. My respect and affection for Vietnam vets is unlimited. They were pawns as I was.
You’d reckon we’d learn something from this mistake, wouldn’t you? Nuh!

The first thing Australia did in the Vietnam War was to send in “training teams” to help the South Vietnamese Army defend themselves. Keith Payne VC is the most famous of those trainers. It was called the AATTV – the Australian Army Training Team Vietnam.

What is our PM doing now? Sending training teams to the Middle East as well as Air Force assistance with humanitarian drops and arms drops to the side we support.

It is the thin edge of the wedge. Next will be a squadron of SAS soldiers who are operational, not trainers. Then it will be a battalion. Then the body bag count will start.

I spent 40 years in guilt over my “bit” in the Vietnam War era and I don’t want that to happen again. I don’t want our kids being used as political pawns in a conflict which can only end in more lives being lost and our own security here being compromised.

This issue is not funny anymore. It is scary and we should not be anywhere near it.

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Scribble said :

If you want to stop heads rolling around the desert, talk to the Saudis:

http://www.news.com.au/world/middle-east/beheadings-at-record-levels-saudi-arabia-executes-dozens-in-deadly-august/story-fnh81ifq-1227037172765

Two points.
The Saudis are not executing their criminals in the desert. They are very public. This is the way it has been for a thousand years. Amnesty claim there has been a surge in beheadings but the report indicated clearly that this is a response to multiple arrests of drug dealers.
Secondly, the people being beheaded are criminals, not captured foreign journalists or soldiers.
BTW, I haven’t seen Amnesty protesting outside the Saudi Arabian Embassy in Yarralumla so do they really care?.

miz said :

Atrocities are committed every day somewhere in the world. We don’t have to put troops on the ground to ‘prove’ we don’t support such atrocities.

Well, the statements and “actions” by the UN haven’t been spectacularly successful, have they.
And when the enemy knock down your front door don’t expect any concessions because you were not opposing their cause.

Atrocities are committed every day somewhere in the world. We don’t have to put troops on the ground to ‘prove’ we don’t support such atrocities.

miz said :

I disagree with those who assert ‘we are already involved’. No, we are not – we do not have a common border, we are not in fact anywhere within cooee of Syria. We can keep our own country safe without going anywhere. We could go so far as providing humanitarian support if there was a need (we could do the same for, eg, the ‘holocaust’ (Kirby’s word) going on in N Korea right now, though of course there is no oil there…)
But to my mind there is absolutely no justification for military intervention whatsoever in the ISIS conflict. And I chucked in N Korea simply to point out the hypocrisy of the present policy makers. Similarly I don’t see Australia offering to put people on the ground in Ukraine or Gaza. They are simply not our business.

How many more severed heads do you want to see rolling in the desert to convince you otherwise?

I disagree with those who assert ‘we are already involved’. No, we are not – we do not have a common border, we are not in fact anywhere within cooee of Syria. We can keep our own country safe without going anywhere. We could go so far as providing humanitarian support if there was a need (we could do the same for, eg, the ‘holocaust’ (Kirby’s word) going on in N Korea right now, though of course there is no oil there…)
But to my mind there is absolutely no justification for military intervention whatsoever in the ISIS conflict. And I chucked in N Korea simply to point out the hypocrisy of the present policy makers. Similarly I don’t see Australia offering to put people on the ground in Ukraine or Gaza. They are simply not our business.

John Hargreaves Ex MLA said :

gazket said :

“we should not be anywhere near it”

Too late for that John we are now a great multicultural society. In the Vietnam war there were not any Australian born North Koreans planning attacks against Australia or going back home to kill our soldiers . Australia is now exporting home grown terrorists and suicide bombers. Only a matter of time before some sort of Jihadist attack happens here in Australia if nothing is done.

You think Australia should do nothing , you are p$ss weak.

I would like to address a few points in this thread.

Firstly, I respect the views of people who differ from my own. I don’t like the idea of inciting people and I don’t like the idea of jumping ahead in the queue for the attention of these terrorists.

I made no suggestion that this was a political issue for me. I disagree with the stances of both sides of the political divide.

There have been a few nasty posts aimed at me personally seemingly to suggest that I should not hold a view on the world terrorist position let alone voice my fears.

Further, my military service has been questioned. I volunteered not for regular army service but for National Service, ie two years. How I came to be there matters not. What matters is that I was the victim of lying propaganda.

Having someone suggest that were I to be a hostage, that no-one would pay a ransom, is puerile and belittling of the writer. We have never met and thus the writer is in no position to make such a nasty comment.

The simple facts for me are that we have begun an escalation of a military solution to a problem which for us should not exist. I see no threat to Switzerland, a neutral county closer than we are. Why we blindly follow the US into wars which have no real relevance to us.

I had thought that dunfungus had developed some sort of civility in his/her writings but sadly I was wrong. But I have been attacked personally by experts and have survived. dungfungus does not rank among them. I can tell an amateur when I read one, but I can’t tell them much.

Describing those with opposing views as p$ss weak is the sort of comment expected of the illiterate bogan.

John, I said the bit about the hostage as a joke. I find it difficult to believe you have taken it seriously and if you have I apologise.
We all know the Labor party would have been able to pass the hat around to rescue you. The Labor Clubs alone would have been good for $500K in any one year.

davo101 said :

dungfungus said :

If you are referring to the Vinegar Hill uprising then it is no where near an example of a “terrorist attack”

It’s as close as yours.

Surely you can do better than that.

HiddenDragon6:35 pm 15 Sep 14

In some respects, this is an argument for an independent (of the US) foreign policy – something which would surely require the expenditure of a much larger proportion of national income on defence than this nation has ever been willing, or politically able, to do in peace-time. In saying this, I have in mind comments such as this, from former Secretary, and potential future President, Clinton:

http://www.smh.com.au/world/hillary-clinton-criticises-australia-for-twotiming-america-with-china-20140627-zso6c.html

I doubt whether that would be a uniquely-held view in Washington.

Regardless of what a narrower view of national self-interest might suggest, we must either – from time to time – prove our loyalty and usefulness in the western alliance, or start paying much higher taxes and get used to receiving much less from government in benefits and day to day services (and also contemplate the prospect of national service) in order build and maintain a somewhat larger and better equipped defence force.

justin heywood6:12 pm 15 Sep 14

John Hargreaves Ex MLA said :

I made no suggestion that this was a political issue for me. I disagree with the stances of both sides of the political divide.

Well yes you did make this political John, both in this post (‘ What is our PM doing now?” ) and in previous posts on the topic (e.g. ‘State of Fear’), where you accused the current government of deliberately ramping up anti-Muslin hysteria.

John Hargreaves Ex MLA said :

There have been a few nasty posts aimed at me personally seemingly to suggest that I should not hold a view on the world terrorist position let alone voice my fears.

Further, my military service has been questioned…

I did not ‘question’ your military service John. But you spent three paragraphs discussing it, so I assume that you thought it would add weight to your argument. I implied that your military experience as a private 50 years ago was hardly relevant to Australian foreign policy today.

John Hargreaves Ex MLA said :

The simple facts for me are that we have begun an escalation of a military solution to a problem which for us should not exist. I see no threat to Switzerland, a neutral county closer than we are. Why we blindly follow the US into wars which have no real relevance to us.

But we ARE involved in it John. Western countries are seen as the enemy of IS, and we are a western country. They have promised to bring their battle to us. If we want to become Switzerland, we’ve left it a bit late.

John Hargreaves Ex MLA said :

Describing those with opposing views as p$ss weak is the sort of comment expected of the illiterate bogan.

Perhaps it’s just me John, but I am always puzzled when you take offence to things written about you on this board. To me, your posts are generally hostile polemics against your political enemies. It’s hardly surprising that people return the hostility.

John Hargreaves Ex MLA5:30 pm 15 Sep 14

gazket said :

“we should not be anywhere near it”

Too late for that John we are now a great multicultural society. In the Vietnam war there were not any Australian born North Koreans planning attacks against Australia or going back home to kill our soldiers . Australia is now exporting home grown terrorists and suicide bombers. Only a matter of time before some sort of Jihadist attack happens here in Australia if nothing is done.

You think Australia should do nothing , you are p$ss weak.

I would like to address a few points in this thread.

Firstly, I respect the views of people who differ from my own. I don’t like the idea of inciting people and I don’t like the idea of jumping ahead in the queue for the attention of these terrorists.

I made no suggestion that this was a political issue for me. I disagree with the stances of both sides of the political divide.

There have been a few nasty posts aimed at me personally seemingly to suggest that I should not hold a view on the world terrorist position let alone voice my fears.

Further, my military service has been questioned. I volunteered not for regular army service but for National Service, ie two years. How I came to be there matters not. What matters is that I was the victim of lying propaganda.

Having someone suggest that were I to be a hostage, that no-one would pay a ransom, is puerile and belittling of the writer. We have never met and thus the writer is in no position to make such a nasty comment.

The simple facts for me are that we have begun an escalation of a military solution to a problem which for us should not exist. I see no threat to Switzerland, a neutral county closer than we are. Why we blindly follow the US into wars which have no real relevance to us.

I had thought that dunfungus had developed some sort of civility in his/her writings but sadly I was wrong. But I have been attacked personally by experts and have survived. dungfungus does not rank among them. I can tell an amateur when I read one, but I can’t tell them much.

Describing those with opposing views as p$ss weak is the sort of comment expected of the illiterate bogan.

“we should not be anywhere near it”

Too late for that John we are now a great multicultural society. In the Vietnam war there were not any Australian born North Koreans planning attacks against Australia or going back home to kill our soldiers . Australia is now exporting home grown terrorists and suicide bombers. Only a matter of time before some sort of Jihadist attack happens here in Australia if nothing is done.

You think Australia should do nothing , you are p$ss weak.

dungfungus said :

If you are referring to the Vinegar Hill uprising then it is no where near an example of a “terrorist attack”

It’s as close as yours.

Steven Bailey said :

dungfungus said :

Steven Bailey said :

Masquara said :

In between posting your rants, John Hargreaves, do you read up on what’s going on in the world?

dungfungus said :

I am sure you won’t be a hostage target John because no one would pay the ransom.

Have some respect.

I have the greatest respect for the Riot Act moderators. They saw the satire which you didn’t.

A satirical comment would be something like this: Dungfungus’ comments are certainly not stupid, offensive, and pointless.

That’s a bit deep for me but if it was meant to nice, thank you.

davo101 said :

dungfungus said :

It would appear that the 1850s would be the time Afghans came to Australia and two of them were responsible for carrying out Australia’s first terrorist attack 99 years ago.
Imagine how many would have been killed if an RPG was used.
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/the-battle-of-broken-hill-113650077/?no-ist

I thought the first terrorist attack in Australia was by the Irish in 1804.

If you are referring to the Vinegar Hill uprising then it is no where near an example of a “terrorist attack”
Even the left leaning ABC and Al Grassby couldn’t put that much spin on it and they settled for an “armed rebellion”.
The presence of an “Irish rebel” doesn’t mean it was “by the Irish” either.
http://www.abc.net.au/tv/rewind/txt/s1209455.htm
Up until now I treated any comment you made with a lot credit but after this effort I will put the “fact checker” over everything you say.

Steven Bailey12:19 pm 15 Sep 14

dungfungus said :

Steven Bailey said :

Masquara said :

In between posting your rants, John Hargreaves, do you read up on what’s going on in the world?

dungfungus said :

I am sure you won’t be a hostage target John because no one would pay the ransom.

Have some respect.

I have the greatest respect for the Riot Act moderators. They saw the satire which you didn’t.

A satirical comment would be something like this: Dungfungus’ comments are certainly not stupid, offensive, and pointless.

dungfungus said :

I am not aware of one by the “Irish” in 1804 (or anytime) so please advise details.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_Hill_convict_rebellion (which I’m pleased to say my ancestors steered clear of).

davo101 said :

dungfungus said :

It would appear that the 1850s would be the time Afghans came to Australia and two of them were responsible for carrying out Australia’s first terrorist attack 99 years ago.
Imagine how many would have been killed if an RPG was used.
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/the-battle-of-broken-hill-113650077/?no-ist

I thought the first terrorist attack in Australia was by the Irish in 1804.

I am not aware of one by the “Irish” in 1804 (or anytime) so please advise details.

dungfungus said :

It would appear that the 1850s would be the time Afghans came to Australia and two of them were responsible for carrying out Australia’s first terrorist attack 99 years ago.
Imagine how many would have been killed if an RPG was used.
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/the-battle-of-broken-hill-113650077/?no-ist

I thought the first terrorist attack in Australia was by the Irish in 1804.

Steven Bailey said :

Masquara said :

In between posting your rants, John Hargreaves, do you read up on what’s going on in the world?

dungfungus said :

I am sure you won’t be a hostage target John because no one would pay the ransom.

Have some respect.

Have some awareness.

Steven Bailey said :

Masquara said :

In between posting your rants, John Hargreaves, do you read up on what’s going on in the world?

dungfungus said :

I am sure you won’t be a hostage target John because no one would pay the ransom.

Have some respect.

I have the greatest respect for the Riot Act moderators. They saw the satire which you didn’t.

justin heywood2:54 pm 14 Sep 14

JC said :

Quite clearly you did not read a word of what I said. Where did I blame the US, Israel or the Liebrals? Nowhere. Where did I say I didn’t support the action, or for that matter stated I did support the action? (as in a post a moment ago I don’t support it, but that is beside the points).

Yes JC, you are quite correct, you did not say that and I apologise. I conflated what you said with what John Hargreaves said.

JC said :

…All I was simply doing was pointing out we only become targets because we get ourselves involved in other peoples business. Simple fact. Now 10 other countries are getting involved, well that will be 10 more countries that also now become targets.

But we ARE involved, whether by directly or just by being infidels (like, say, the victims in Bali or Madrid), or as innocent bystanders trying to render aid (like the poor bugger they beheaded this morning).

These guys are politically savvy enough to exploit the general worldwide distrust of America to justify their reign of terror. Thus almost every terrorist atrocity is dressed up as a reprisal against American interference, but now only the naive believe it.

Steven Bailey12:29 pm 14 Sep 14

Masquara said :

In between posting your rants, John Hargreaves, do you read up on what’s going on in the world?

dungfungus said :

I am sure you won’t be a hostage target John because no one would pay the ransom.

Have some respect.

justin heywood said :

JC said :

…..From what I can see and heave learnt over the years, the only reason we become targets is because we get involved in issues that have nothing what so ever to do with us.

Yep, a common enough view. It’s basically all the fault of America, or Israel, or the Liberals here at home. All these peace-loving fundamentalists want is to be left alone to set up their own caliphate, where they are free to worship their god in peace.

A tolerant people, we should be tolerant towards them. This includes:

– not being an infidel, no matter where you are in the world. Non-believers are legitimate political targets,and their lives are worthless anyway
– not saying or writing anything that might be seen as disrespectful of their god, no matter where you are in the world. If you do, they are within their rights to kill you.
– not interfering in their ambition to impose, by extreme violence, their vision of an Islamic state on any country they choose. This is none of our business.

This is not just some flash-in -the-pan outbreak of religious nuttery, and it’s not as simple as blaming American foreign policy and hoping it will all go away. There are at least 10 other nations concerned enough to do what we are doing.

And John, it’s a complex problem. The Middle East is not Vietnam, and a couple of years as a Nasho private and a career on the local council does not give you any more authority on foreign policy issues than anyone else. It’s telling that even on this issue, which has bi-partisan support, you cannot help but laying the blame on the Libs.

Quite clearly you did not read a word of what I said. Where did I blame the US, Israel or the Liebrals? Nowhere. Where did I say I didn’t support the action, or for that matter stated I did support the action? (as in a post a moment ago I don’t support it, but that is beside the points).

All I was simply doing was pointing out we only become targets because we get ourselves involved in other peoples business. Simple fact. Now 10 other countries are getting involved, well that will be 10 more countries that also now become targets.

magiccar9 said :

JC said :

magiccar9 said :

OK John, you’ve peaked my interest. Clearly you’ve shown you wouldn’t be doing anything our PM has done so far. You wouldn’t raise a finger to help. Fair enough – each to their own I guess. However, tell me, when ISIS gains so much power that they bring their “war” to us, what then? Would you still sit on your hands and watch innocent people continue to be murdered?

I am curious. When do you reckon ISIS will bring their war to us, and if we keep out of their business why do you think they will bring their war to us?

From what I can see and heave learnt over the years, the only reason we become targets is because we get involved in issues that have nothing what so ever to do with us.

Honestly? I can’t tell if you’re joking, or seriously have that short-sighted of a view.

The best example to disprove your theory is what started the humanitarian effort over there recently – the ISIS force killing people who didn’t believe in their extreme religion. Did you think these innocent men, women, and children simply should have “stayed out of their business”?

Your reply here is so clueless it’s embarrassing.

You haven’t told me I am wrong. If we kept out we wouldn’t become targets. Simple as that.

Not saying that we should keep out, nor am I saying that we should go in, just pointing out the bleeding obvious, happy to be proven wrong of course.

Now for what it’s worth I supported the first Gulf war, you know the one where Iraq invaded another country. I didn’t support the 2nd gulf war, because the whole goal there was to get Hussain, with the invasion based on what is now known as lies. That would be no different to a country invading us to save us from Abbott! Now don’t think you would support that would you?

JC said :

I am curious. When do you reckon ISIS will bring their war to us, and if we keep out of their business why do you think they will bring their war to us?
.

You’re right, and when the Nazis were rounding up all the jews and invading Poland, we should have stayed out of that one as well as it was none of our business.

If you think it is appropriate to turn a bind eye to activities that are entirely contrary to our societal values, then *you* too possess values that are entirely contrary to those of the society I thought I lived in.

JC said :

magiccar9 said :

OK John, you’ve peaked my interest. Clearly you’ve shown you wouldn’t be doing anything our PM has done so far. You wouldn’t raise a finger to help. Fair enough – each to their own I guess. However, tell me, when ISIS gains so much power that they bring their “war” to us, what then? Would you still sit on your hands and watch innocent people continue to be murdered?

I am curious. When do you reckon ISIS will bring their war to us, and if we keep out of their business why do you think they will bring their war to us?

From what I can see and heave learnt over the years, the only reason we become targets is because we get involved in issues that have nothing what so ever to do with us.

Honestly? I can’t tell if you’re joking, or seriously have that short-sighted of a view.

The best example to disprove your theory is what started the humanitarian effort over there recently – the ISIS force killing people who didn’t believe in their extreme religion. Did you think these innocent men, women, and children simply should have “stayed out of their business”?

Your reply here is so clueless it’s embarrassing.

justin heywood said :

JC said :

…..From what I can see and heave learnt over the years, the only reason we become targets is because we get involved in issues that have nothing what so ever to do with us.

Yep, a common enough view. It’s basically all the fault of America, or Israel, or the Liberals here at home. All these peace-loving fundamentalists want is to be left alone to set up their own caliphate, where they are free to worship their god in peace.

A tolerant people, we should be tolerant towards them. This includes:

– not being an infidel, no matter where you are in the world. Non-believers are legitimate political targets,and their lives are worthless anyway
– not saying or writing anything that might be seen as disrespectful of their god, no matter where you are in the world. If you do, they are within their rights to kill you.
– not interfering in their ambition to impose, by extreme violence, their vision of an Islamic state on any country they choose. This is none of our business.

This is not just some flash-in -the-pan outbreak of religious nuttery, and it’s not as simple as blaming American foreign policy and hoping it will all go away. There are at least 10 other nations concerned enough to do what we are doing.

And John, it’s a complex problem. The Middle East is not Vietnam, and a couple of years as a Nasho private and a career on the local council does not give you any more authority on foreign policy issues than anyone else. It’s telling that even on this issue, which has bi-partisan support, you cannot help but laying the blame on the Libs.

Not in the MSM yet but the Syrian “rebels” (unsure if they are the good rebels or the bad rebels) are now in total control of the border with Israel. This follows the rebels extorting a reported $50 million ransom from Qatar to free the Fijian UN “peace keepers” (what a failure UN peace keepers have been).
We know what comes next. Israel can only tolerate a certain amount of intimidation.

Pork Hunt said :

dungfungus said :

miz said :

I sure as h*ll don’t want Aust to get involved, again, in another pointless conflict.

We have been involved since the first migrant settlers from the middle east arrived.

I doubt that dungers, considering the first migrants from the Middle East probably got here on the second fleet.

It would appear that the 1850s would be the time Afghans came to Australia and two of them were responsible for carrying out Australia’s first terrorist attack 99 years ago.
Imagine how many would have been killed if an RPG was used.
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/the-battle-of-broken-hill-113650077/?no-ist

justin heywood10:21 pm 13 Sep 14

JC said :

…..From what I can see and heave learnt over the years, the only reason we become targets is because we get involved in issues that have nothing what so ever to do with us.

Yep, a common enough view. It’s basically all the fault of America, or Israel, or the Liberals here at home. All these peace-loving fundamentalists want is to be left alone to set up their own caliphate, where they are free to worship their god in peace.

A tolerant people, we should be tolerant towards them. This includes:

– not being an infidel, no matter where you are in the world. Non-believers are legitimate political targets,and their lives are worthless anyway
– not saying or writing anything that might be seen as disrespectful of their god, no matter where you are in the world. If you do, they are within their rights to kill you.
– not interfering in their ambition to impose, by extreme violence, their vision of an Islamic state on any country they choose. This is none of our business.

This is not just some flash-in -the-pan outbreak of religious nuttery, and it’s not as simple as blaming American foreign policy and hoping it will all go away. There are at least 10 other nations concerned enough to do what we are doing.

And John, it’s a complex problem. The Middle East is not Vietnam, and a couple of years as a Nasho private and a career on the local council does not give you any more authority on foreign policy issues than anyone else. It’s telling that even on this issue, which has bi-partisan support, you cannot help but laying the blame on the Libs.

magiccar9 said :

OK John, you’ve peaked my interest. Clearly you’ve shown you wouldn’t be doing anything our PM has done so far. You wouldn’t raise a finger to help. Fair enough – each to their own I guess. However, tell me, when ISIS gains so much power that they bring their “war” to us, what then? Would you still sit on your hands and watch innocent people continue to be murdered?

I am curious. When do you reckon ISIS will bring their war to us, and if we keep out of their business why do you think they will bring their war to us?

From what I can see and heave learnt over the years, the only reason we become targets is because we get involved in issues that have nothing what so ever to do with us.

dungfungus said :

miz said :

I sure as h*ll don’t want Aust to get involved, again, in another pointless conflict.

We have been involved since the first migrant settlers from the middle east arrived.

I doubt that dungers, considering the first migrants from the Middle East probably got here on the second fleet.

miz said :

I sure as h*ll don’t want Aust to get involved, again, in another pointless conflict.

We have been involved since the first migrant settlers from the middle east arrived.

I sure as h*ll don’t want Aust to get involved, again, in another pointless conflict.

farnarkler said :

I’m guessing Northern Ireland with the Catholic vs Protestant is about as close as we’ll get to understanding it. If there is such a thing as allah, I doubt he/she/it would be too impressed with followers killing others.

The killing in NI was absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with argument over fine points of religious doctrine, much as the English establishment and media wanted to paint a racist picture of the inhabitants of the occupied 6 counties.

They’ll never learn as they have differing views on how the prophet’s successor is decided. I’m guessing Northern Ireland with the Catholic vs Protestant is about as close as we’ll get to understanding it. If there is such a thing as allah, I doubt he/she/it would be too impressed with followers killing others.

Pork Hunt said :

I’m sure someone smarter than me once said that ” The only thing we learn from history is that we don’t learn from history”…

That being the case then the people in the middle east, who have been causing problems that the rest of the world has to deal with for the last 1,000 years, are very slow learners indeed.

I’m sure someone smarter than me once said that ” The only thing we learn from history is that we don’t learn from history”…

OK John, you’ve peaked my interest. Clearly you’ve shown you wouldn’t be doing anything our PM has done so far. You wouldn’t raise a finger to help. Fair enough – each to their own I guess. However, tell me, when ISIS gains so much power that they bring their “war” to us, what then? Would you still sit on your hands and watch innocent people continue to be murdered?

Lets face it, you can compare this new threat to Vietnam until you’re blue in the face. The fact remains it isn’t anything like it. We’re a hell of a lot more advanced globally now. We don’t have restricted media, propaganda machines, and no longer have to listen to what our Government tells us is outside our walls. We now have access to international media, and nobody can say that this new threat is just Government scare mongering in it’s own interests. Regardless of which media outlet we all choose to watch/read/listen to they are all telling the same story.

John, you need to realise we live in the modern era. People are more willing to question governments and hold them accountable. We can see what happens, and what needs to happen, and make decisions accordingly. What we’re seeing is not a repeat of Vietnam – it’s far from it, and the sooner you look outside your window and realise this the better.

basketcase said :

Gawd he better find “something” to justify it all.

And if he doesn’t? So what. Are you willing to call his bluff? It’s people like this who are happy to sit back, criticise every decision, yet when something goes wrong they’re the first to blame the Government for “not doing enough”. Nobody is stopping you from going about your life just because of a raised terror level. I for one don’t care for the raised level, it doesn’t impact my daily life, but it gives me a piece of mind that something is happening – even if it doesn’t culminate to anything.

For the record – I don’t support any of our political parties.

Remember John that the Vietnam war was a rebellion against returned colonialism post WW2. The victors followed a pretty well structured ideology from a century before. What we’re seeing in Syria and Iraq is more like join our extremely radical self proclaimed nation or we’ll butcher you. What amazes me is that the US is so eager to get in there and wipe out the islamic state, yet just South of the Rio Grande there are the drug cartels who skin people alive and use chainsaws to decapitate their rivals. I guess it’s all about the oil.

I am sure you said on another thread that you were a “nasho” John.
Turns out you were a regular and there is nothing wrong with that.
I don’t agree that “nashos” were pawns – they accepted they were there to do their bit and memories of our losses in the Korean war were still hurting as you alluded to. You were very courageous to volunteer.
I was called up in 1966 and some of the regulars I met clearly treated “nashos’ as second-class soldiers. A lot of nasho recruits “went over the fence” because of the bastardisation that was going on.
You can’t simply say fairly that history proved the Vietnam war was wrong either.
I spent have spent some time in Europe in the past 10 years and I agree with what leaders over there are saying now namely, the west will be at war with the I S extremists for at least the next 10 years and it is better to fight them where they are now rather than do nothing until we have to consider another Brisbane Line.

“Although American intervention failed in Vietnam, it bought time for the rest of Southeast Asia. In 1965, when the U.S. military moved massively into South Vietnam, Thailand, Malaysia, and the Philippines faced internal threats from armed communist insurgencies, and the communist underground was still active in Singapore . . . America’s action [in Vietnam] enabled non-communist Southeast Asia to put their own houses in order. By 1975, they were in better shape to stand up to the communists. Had there been no U.S. intervention, the will of these countries to resist them would have melted and Southeast Asia would most likely have gone communist. The prosperous emerging market economies of A.S.E.A.N. were nurtured during the Vietnam War years.”

Lee Kuan Yew (in his autobiography)

basketcase said :

The whole thing is a joke, I bet the head of ASIO is laughing his head off at conning a billion or so out of the government. Gawd he better find “something” to justify it all.

And the government has restricted press freedom so that its failings can’t be examined or published.

Yeah, I did the Vietnam war bit, what a joke, talked about being conned by the government.

How about weapons of mass destruction? I fear we are seeing the same cr$p coming out the government now as we did then.

Almost too old to care anymore!

I am sure you won’t be a hostage target John because no one would pay the ransom.

This isn’t just the PM. It has bipartisan support. And clearly it’s a necessary move to try and get these mass murderers neutralised. In between posting your rants, John Hargreaves, do you read up on what’s going on in the world?

The whole thing is a joke, I bet the head of ASIO is laughing his head off at conning a billion or so out of the government. Gawd he better find “something” to justify it all.

And the government has restricted press freedom so that its failings can’t be examined or published.

Yeah, I did the Vietnam war bit, what a joke, talked about being conned by the government.

How about weapons of mass destruction? I fear we are seeing the same cr$p coming out the government now as we did then.

Almost too old to care anymore!

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