Ban Live Export Rally Sunday 14 August

Before calling all vegetarians feral, likening welfare activists to Nazis, and claiming that these protesters are nothing but racists, perhaps some of you ought to take a step back and consider a few things which have not come up in this post.

– The bill that Nick Xenophon has introduced to parliament involves phasing out live export from Australia by 2014.
– Indonesia is aiming to be self-sufficient in their beef production by 2014, meaning they will not be continuing to import live animals from Australia anyway.
– Australia’s frozen meat export market is worth many times more than its live export market, and it continues to grow.

Australia cannot remain dependant on live export trade to Indonesia to keep our country’s economy stable and our farmers employed. Claiming that without live export out meat industry would collapse, or that the livelihood of our farmers will be destroyed, achieves nothing. Animal welfare organisations and supports are most definitely not pitting themselves against farmers. Do you believe that farmers are happy with the treatment these animals receive overseas? Not all farmers support live export and most welfare organisations seek to work with farmers to develop a solution that will allow us to process our meat on-shore. If we do not begin to act now what will we do three years down the track when the demand for our livestock decreases?

On our relationship and influence in Indonesia…
– The Australian government gives millions of dollars in aid to Indonesia every year and and our country has also been working towards improving education and understanding the importance of animal welfare.
– Animal welfare is not considered a priority by Indonesia. There is no quick, easy or cheap fix to this and education is the only way to move forward.
– By gradually withdrawing out cattle from the market Australia is not giving up and forcing this problem on to others. Just because our cattle would not be involved does no mean we would cease to care about the treatment of animals overseas. International welfare organisations will persist with education and work towards raising welfare standards.

I would also like to point out that part of this education includes teaching that stunning does not contravene halal slaughter guide-lines.
– Halal slaughter does not have to be inhumane.
– Australia already exports halal and kosher-certified meat to all the countries we export live animals to.

On the issue of cruelty…
– It is worth acknowlodging that the film taken in several Indonesian abattoirs was not typical of all Indonesian abattoirs.
– The unnecessary cruelty inherent in live export is not only the risk of improper methods of handling and killing .
– The entire process of transportation causes animals to suffer.
– Australia still exports sheep to countries in the Middle East, a journey that takes over two weeks.
– In 2010 around 30000 sheep died during this journey. I would very much like to hear suggestions as to how this could be avoided without a total ban.

Finally, I know of no activists who are holding the Indonesian people solely to account. Perhaps you have read comments of this nature on the internet, and assume that all activists feel the same way? I find this gross generalisation of animal activists as unintelligent and ignorant to be offensive. I care about animal welfare and I care about Australia. I care about our farmers, their jobs and our economy. I am fed up of this entirely unnecessary, unconstructive and immature name-calling that takes away from the real issues before us.

Instead of going to a rally donate money to a cattle organisation to pay for training and the expensive equipment to handle cattle.

EvanJames said :

legal said :

Animals Australia is now losing ground rapidly on this campaign as education replaces the misinformation and the outcome of the recent senate hearing exposed Animals Australia as a bunch of malevolent fools, with false information and paid bribes for workers to abuse animals for the camera (Sen Chris Back).

Senator Back’s claims are unsubstantiated, and strongly refuted by Animals Australia and the RSPCA, who jointly ran the exercise to send Lyn White over on the cattle ship to investigate how animals were being treated.

Lyn White, an ex-AFP officer, has absolutely refuted Back’s bizarre statements.

It is truly amazing how far parts of this industry will go to ensure that they can continue to send animals to be tortured to death, and Senator Back’s lying to the enquiry is a despicable act. Not all parts of this industry are so venial, many are supporting moves to fix what’s wrong with it, sadly the way the government has gone about it is helping neither side.

But read the various statements and information and decide for yourselves.

http://www.banliveexport.com/

Going to a propaganda site like this is not informative, you will only be misinformed. People are sick of this orchestrated corruption of the media for special interest groups like Animals Australia and their sick of activists dumbing down issues so these flat-earthians can ‘divide and conquer’. You deliberately accuse anyone who is not animal activist freak as somehow an ‘animal torturer’.

The Senator’s claim that Lyn White paid bribes for mistreatment are backed up by affadavit of the individual in the video and by the fact these abbotiors were inspected and cleared shortly before Lyn White turned up. This is real, not a consipiracy. I tolerate the activists but pay close attention to the scientists and experts who know more about animal welfare than everyone else, anything less is corruption of moral judgement.

It is also the simplest explanation (that she paid bribes for a show) for Lyn White’s prepared outrage at the claim, and the the voracity of her outrage (thou doth protest too much).

The days of activists controlling the media spin cycle on this issue are over and they are hating it. All normal reasonable people that were outraged are now seeing the campaign by Lyn White as militant activist with no substance, straight out of the PETA manual for militant activism.

And to say this industry in any way supports animal cruelty is fiendish lie. Animal activists are not animal welfare experts and you do not need to be a part of the Animals Australia propaganda machine to be a supporter of animal welfare standards.

As you are well aware and trying to hide is that the senate hearing exposed Animals Australia as anti-scientific, out of touch with the reality, making baseless accusations, fail to understand the issues and focussed on an ideological view.

To top it all off, these animal activists are a bunch of racists. Portraying Indonesians as sub-human and undeserving of their food supply to some the poorest people on the planet is ideological genocide.

EvanJames said :

But read the various statements and information and decide for yourselves.

http://www.banliveexport.com/

That URL doesn’t exactly suggest an unbiased source of information. Just saying.

legal said :

Animals Australia is now losing ground rapidly on this campaign as education replaces the misinformation and the outcome of the recent senate hearing exposed Animals Australia as a bunch of malevolent fools, with false information and paid bribes for workers to abuse animals for the camera (Sen Chris Back).

Senator Back’s claims are unsubstantiated, and strongly refuted by Animals Australia and the RSPCA, who jointly ran the exercise to send Lyn White over on the cattle ship to investigate how animals were being treated. Lyn White, an ex-AFP officer, has absolutely refuted Back’s bizarre statements.

It is truly amazing how far parts of this industry will go to ensure that they can continue to send animals to be tortured to death, and Senator Back’s lying to the enquiry is a despicable act. Not all parts of this industry are so venial, many are supporting moves to fix what’s wrong with it, sadly the way the government has gone about it is helping neither side.

But read the various statements and information and decide for yourselves.

http://www.banliveexport.com/

If you support animal welfare then support the scientists and experts working in the area, not a bunch of activists trying to close down all industries that use animals.

The actvists have a run a clever campaign which has cost us a Billion Dollars in lost revenue, and about the same again with compensation payouts. Labor has lost the next election on this issue alone.

Animals Australia is now losing ground rapidly on this campaign as education replaces the misinformation and the outcome of the recent senate hearing exposed Animals Australia as a bunch of malevolent fools, with false information and paid bribes for workers to abuse animals for the camera (Sen Chris Back).

EvanJames said :

00davist said :

What are our priorities?

I cannot put extreme cruelty to animals into a heirarchy of causes. The strength of the reaction from ordinary people speaks, I think, to our disgust at subjecting animals to horrific, un-necessary abuse. Animals are subjected to us, they have no power and cannot speak, it is up to us to uphold their welfare.

The others issues you list, they are humans doing things to other humans. It’s a different dynamic. Most of the people reacting against animal cruelty also care deeply about one or many of these issues, and is possibly active in one or some of them.

But as you point out, huge numbers of people were roused to action by what they saw on 4 Corners. I’m sorry that Get Up were unhappy about the huge response, but I would prefer to put it this way: all the people who care about various causes, ALL of them care about this one.

there’s no way to rationalise the way these animals are treated, there’s no justifcation for it, and for us to let it continue diminishes us.

The people who are taking action come from all walks of life, all ages groups, sexes, belief systems, and sides of politics. This issue is beyond all of that.

My point was not that the response was unwarrented, more that it’s a shame we dont see the same response of other issues.

Saying I’m upset cows get a bigger response than Raped Children, is not saying the cows need a smaller response!

I just think it’s sad that we can’t muster up this kind of enthusiasim for even more abhorrent acts.

Personally (So far i have tried to keep my views on the actuall live exports topic out of the picture) I also signed up to that pettition, I dont agree with the cruelty we are seeing.

But I wish we could muster up the same public outporing for rape victims, abused children, etc.

Heck, seems you can only get a big respose from the public if you are a cow, or a plastic deformity (Michael Jackson)

By all means, I feel the public response was fully warrented, but could we please try and maybe pull the same response for other heinios acts? or are cows (and plasto-Man) all we care about?

00davist said :

What are our priorities?

I cannot put extreme cruelty to animals into a heirarchy of causes. The strength of the reaction from ordinary people speaks, I think, to our disgust at subjecting animals to horrific, un-necessary abuse. Animals are subjected to us, they have no power and cannot speak, it is up to us to uphold their welfare.

The others issues you list, they are humans doing things to other humans. It’s a different dynamic. Most of the people reacting against animal cruelty also care deeply about one or many of these issues, and is possibly active in one or some of them.

But as you point out, huge numbers of people were roused to action by what they saw on 4 Corners. I’m sorry that Get Up were unhappy about the huge response, but I would prefer to put it this way: all the people who care about various causes, ALL of them care about this one.

there’s no way to rationalise the way these animals are treated, there’s no justifcation for it, and for us to let it continue diminishes us.

The people who are taking action come from all walks of life, all ages groups, sexes, belief systems, and sides of politics. This issue is beyond all of that.

ConanOfCooma said :

I think what Evan James is trying to say, is that no matter how uneducated he is on the subject, and no matter how far away from being an expert on the topic, he still wants to throw his support behind it.

Kind of like the German populace just before 1940, and the unemployed Brits currently trashing the UK.

You saw a report of 4 Corners. Whoopeee. Your first mistake was taking a television show as factual and unbiased data. Commence mistake cascade.

Congratulations, you in a round about way bring Hitler into the argument. Well done, you have just won the internet.

Yeah i’ll pass on the protest

inb4 socialist alliance hijack the event

EvanJames said :

ConanOfCooma said :

Ban live export… FFS. Nice blanket statement, you morons. You can’t ban live export, too many lives depend on the income it brings.

None of you are too keen on training the other countries on proper treatment, and I don’t see any proposals for the banning of halal and kosher meats.

All you idiots did was see a TV show that made you gasp and it gave you the urge to actually do something constructive with your consumer lives. Too bad your total lack of intelligence has made you prioritise the treatment of animals in another country as a higher concern than the humans in your own country.

You have some good points, in there among the abuse. Your points would be better made without the abuse.

No humans in Australia are being torn, broken, smashed, slashed. But the animals we export to Indonesia and other countries are. That is the crux of it.

We are taking action because we cannot abide the cruelty that is happening. We cannot look the other way or dismiss it with glib utterances.

Many of the farmers who produce animals for export are also aghast at what has been happening. They want to make a living, but they too expect the government (and those useless so and sos in Meat and Livestock Australia) to find a better way.

Evan, I fully understand where you are comming from, But i do have one point to raise.

You have said: “No humans in Australia are being torn, broken, smashed, slashed.”

This links in with a point that was raised to me about the live export issue, It was pointed out to me (By somone who had signed the pettition for GetUp) that they were later somewhat regretfull that they had joined the fight, when we later saw how many people jumped up to this cause.

It was when GetUp announced this campagn had received so much more intrest than any other, that they were left thinkig “Is that what we care about most”

Not to say that the response was bad, but why dont we see a response of such magnitude (On every TV station, Campagn Web Sites crashin under support, People all over the city centre dressed as cows, Megaphones, Mail Drops, Banner waving) for prevention of child abuse, Spousal Abuse, or Rape.

Sure, these causes all have campaigns, and web sites, and make it to TV, or the street corner, but I dont recall any of them getting such an overwhelming flood of support, all at once!

What are our priorities?

John Moulis said :

If it comes to a choice between supporting feral vegetarians, vegans and other loony fringe elements or decent, respectable Aussie farmers trying to make a living and feed their families I know which side I support.

At least now I know my enemy

Live export is the only way to export meat to some countries who do not have consistent electricity for stun guns or refrigeration/freezing.

I don’t necessarily advocate what animal libs call ‘cruelty’, but, realistically, there is just no way around killing an animal if you want to eat it. Further, the cattle would not even exist if there were not a market for them. Humans are omnivores. Deal with it.

I suspect the true agenda is that these people are ideologically opposed to eating meat themselves and want to convert the world on this bandwagon.

I think what Evan James is trying to say, is that no matter how uneducated he is on the subject, and no matter how far away from being an expert on the topic, he still wants to throw his support behind it.

Kind of like the German populace just before 1940, and the unemployed Brits currently trashing the UK.

You saw a report of 4 Corners. Whoopeee. Your first mistake was taking a television show as factual and unbiased data. Commence mistake cascade.

John Moulis said :

If it comes to a choice between supporting feral vegetarians, vegans and other loony fringe elements or decent, respectable Aussie farmers trying to make a living and feed their families I know which side I support.

If you can’t conceive of anyone other than vegetarians being concerned about the welfare of animals, then your problems are bigger than I ever imagined.

Also, nice touch on the post – ‘all vegetarian are feral extremists’, ‘all farmers are respectable battlers’. The lack of any sense of nuanced understanding of the society you live in is almost enough to make me vomit with despair.

If it comes to a choice between supporting feral vegetarians, vegans and other loony fringe elements or decent, respectable Aussie farmers trying to make a living and feed their families I know which side I support.

chewy14 said :

colourful sydney racing identity said :

Yep, sure it can be ‘cleaned up’. How would this be done, in every country we export live cattle and sheep to?

Depends on what your standards are. I personally don’t think it will be possible to get other countries’ abbatoirs to the level of ours in the short term. It will be a process that may take some years of education and investment in better methods. In the meantime some animals will be slaughtered in less than ideal and in some cases, cruel conditions.
I can live with that because I believe that educating people will result in a better overall outcome than cutting these countries off and losing an entire Australian industry whilst not changing anything.
A live export ban will simply mean these countries buy from others who’s standards aren’t as high as ours.

I agree that education is a good option, but banning live export doesn’t necessarily mean losing an entire Australian industry. When Australia suspended live exports to Egypt years ago, we began sending frozen meat instead.

A whole new industry could be created, thus providing more jobs for Australians, and ensuring that our cattle are slaughtered humanely.

Of course, the country that we send the frozen meat to has to have the capacity to store and transport frozen goods within their country…

I’d prefer we ban religion and fast food thereby ensuring better treatment of animals and humans.

In addition allow Aussie farmers to slaughter on their own farms.

I also don’t believe the “rape & pillage the world and it’s species because we earn a dollar from it” argument as holding any weight anymore. It’s cheaper to have slaves but we got rid of that and sent some slave owners/traders/farmers broke. Boo f***ing Hoo.

We also shouldn’t start the argument about cattle being an introduced species causing huge environmental degradation, damage and forcing out native species so maybe the farmers should be looking at other sources of income.

But now of course we are talking big issue big view stuff.

EvanJames said :

qbngeek said :

Evan, I have a few tips for trying to get support from the broader community.

I am the broader community. I saw the 4 Corners report, became enraged, and joined the cause. As for support, it comes from others like me who saw something unacceptable and horrific, and were moved to act.

Snip

I know someone who wont eat dairy because she read an article depicting some cuelty on male calves that I had never heard of because they were “surplus” to the requirements of dairy farmers.

Now being from a dairy farming background I explained to her that this was simply incorrect, yes the bulls were castrated & when big enough were sold to market (extra income) but they were not subjected to cuelty of any sort out fo the whole slaughtering process (which no matter how its done is not pretty).

While what was filmed was horrific & just not on, ONE 4 Corners article does not depict a complete industry and peoples lives should not be destroyed based on some sensationalism (the woman in the other picture with blood on her arms……).

Why not campaign for change rather than a complete ban? The actual exporting of the animals is not the problem, its the user but there are two industries now that have been closed down in a knee jerk, ill-considered reaction by the FG.

One thing I have learnt about people who have not had any experience with farming & that is that it can be a shock to see where your food sources come from.

colourful sydney racing identity said :

Yep, sure it can be ‘cleaned up’. How would this be done, in every country we export live cattle and sheep to?

Depends on what your standards are. I personally don’t think it will be possible to get other countries’ abbatoirs to the level of ours in the short term. It will be a process that may take some years of education and investment in better methods. In the meantime some animals will be slaughtered in less than ideal and in some cases, cruel conditions.
I can live with that because I believe that educating people will result in a better overall outcome than cutting these countries off and losing an entire Australian industry whilst not changing anything.
A live export ban will simply mean these countries buy from others who’s standards aren’t as high as ours.

qbngeek said :

Evan, I have a few tips for trying to get support from the broader community.

I am the broader community. I saw the 4 Corners report, became enraged, and joined the cause. As for support, it comes from others like me who saw something unacceptable and horrific, and were moved to act.

People who care have written to their members of parliament and will come to the rally, if they can. Those who don’t, won’t.

I don’t need to convince anyone. If someone could see that footage, or read about it, and remain unmoved or rationalise the cruelty, then it is beyond my ability to convince them otherwise.

The footage we all saw was filmed by an ex-police officer, and her trip to Indonesia on board a cattle ship was arranged by people in the RSPCA and Animals Australia. It was not some random mobile-phone footage someone came by.

The abattoirs she filmed were randomly selected, however… she went to abattoirs that they knew existed. They didn’t know if cruelty was happening there, until she arrived and saw for herself what was happening.

This is the campaign page for the live export campaign. I must warn you though, there are some horrible pictures if you click on this link. But the information is all there too, about the investigations.
http://liveexport-indefensible.com/

Read and judge for yourself.

chewy14 said :

colourful sydney racing identity said :

chewy14 said :

EvanJames said :

It worries me that people could see what they do to those cattle, and feel that it’s OK so long as we are making money out of it.

I hope that the government can be motivated by these rallies and the letter-writing and other parts of the campaign to put in the effort to clean up this industry, so the animals are treated humanely and as we expect. There’s a range of ways we could ensure that the animals are killed without the disgusting cruelty we saw on 4 Corners.

But this rally isn’t about cleaning up the industry, it’s about stopping live export.
Thus I won’t support it.

Why do you support live export?

Because it’s a legitimate business employing Australian workers.

The overseas industries we saw on 4 Corners can be cleaned up through working with the abbatoirs to improve their slaughtering practices.

The people trying to ban live export don’t want the industry cleaned up, they want to stop live export because they believe it’s cruel. I don’t agree with this.

Yep, sure it can be ‘cleaned up’. How would this be done, in every country we export live cattle and sheep to?

chewy14 said :

Also,
http://www.news.com.au/national/fake-footage-claims-from-senator-chris-back-rock-federal-inquiry-into-live-cattle-exports/story-e6frfkw0-1226112311320
This kind of thing if true, could really hurt the cause.

Hmmm, claims made under parliamentray privilege? Will he repeat them outside? I think not. Does he have any proof?

ConanOfCooma said :

I don’t see any proposals for the banning of halal and kosher meats.

Okay, here’s one ban halal and kosher slaughtering that does not involve irreversible stunning of the animal.

Senator Back told the inquiry he had been informed a taxi driver had arranged the mistreatment of the cattle with a bribe of 150,000 rupiah, and the abuse was then captured on video.

When the ban was imposed and the abattoir closed, the slaughterman in the video was blamed by his co-workers who beat him and raped his wife, said Senator Back

His mate’s sister’s hairdresser was told it by a bloke her friend had met in the pub.

Are you talking boat people or cows?

ConanOfCooma said :

Too bad your total lack of intelligence has made you prioritise the treatment of animals in another country as a higher concern than the humans in your own country.

Conan is right, before we ban live exports of animals for slaughter, we should ban the slaughter of humans in Australia!

Also,
http://www.news.com.au/national/fake-footage-claims-from-senator-chris-back-rock-federal-inquiry-into-live-cattle-exports/story-e6frfkw0-1226112311320
This kind of thing if true, could really hurt the cause.

colourful sydney racing identity said :

chewy14 said :

EvanJames said :

It worries me that people could see what they do to those cattle, and feel that it’s OK so long as we are making money out of it.

I hope that the government can be motivated by these rallies and the letter-writing and other parts of the campaign to put in the effort to clean up this industry, so the animals are treated humanely and as we expect. There’s a range of ways we could ensure that the animals are killed without the disgusting cruelty we saw on 4 Corners.

But this rally isn’t about cleaning up the industry, it’s about stopping live export.
Thus I won’t support it.

Why do you support live export?

Because it’s a legitimate business employing Australian workers.

The overseas industries we saw on 4 Corners can be cleaned up through working with the abbatoirs to improve their slaughtering practices.

The people trying to ban live export don’t want the industry cleaned up, they want to stop live export because they believe it’s cruel. I don’t agree with this.

I support live export.

Evan, I have a few tips for trying to get support from the broader community.
– Tell us where you stand. Blanket ban? Humane trade?
– Tell us what the aim if the demonstration is. Blanket Ban? Humane trade?
– Distance yourself from nutbag vegan greenies, unless you are one. They only hurt campaigns like this with made up facts and misinformation.
– Declare your interests in the issue so people know where you stand.

I will declare my interests straight up. I love meat. I love it in all forms. I even hunt for my own with a bow. I am against animal cruelty, hence why I never take a shot at an animal unless I can kill it with that shot. On the two past occasions my first arrow failed to kill, I very quickly put another arrow in the bottom of skull to sever the spinal cord. I do not agree with how animals were treated in Indonesia, however I care more about our economy and our people. I believe banning live exports completely will fix nothing. Last Federal election I voted Liberal because all the other options sucked. I would vote, and have voted, Labor if it made sense to do so. I will never vote Green until they put their feet on the ground and stopp talking rubbish.

ConanOfCooma said :

Ban live export… FFS. Nice blanket statement, you morons. You can’t ban live export, too many lives depend on the income it brings.

None of you are too keen on training the other countries on proper treatment, and I don’t see any proposals for the banning of halal and kosher meats.

All you idiots did was see a TV show that made you gasp and it gave you the urge to actually do something constructive with your consumer lives. Too bad your total lack of intelligence has made you prioritise the treatment of animals in another country as a higher concern than the humans in your own country.

You have some good points, in there among the abuse. Your points would be better made without the abuse.

No humans in Australia are being torn, broken, smashed, slashed. But the animals we export to Indonesia and other countries are. That is the crux of it.

We are taking action because we cannot abide the cruelty that is happening. We cannot look the other way or dismiss it with glib utterances.

Many of the farmers who produce animals for export are also aghast at what has been happening. They want to make a living, but they too expect the government (and those useless so and sos in Meat and Livestock Australia) to find a better way.

To clean it up, first we have to halt further exports into cruelty. To keep exporting animals to be torn apart as we saw on 4 Corners is repugnant. There is more information coming about revelations about what is happening in Turkey also… Animals Australia are giving the government a chance to see what they’ve found and respond, before they release it to the public.

We can’t fix this until it’s halted, and then the issue can be examined for solutions. I don’t want to take away the livlihoods of the cattle farmers who raise cattle and other animals for export to other countries, I’d like options to be explored for a solution that allows these people to earn a living. But not while animals are being shipped overseas and subjected to horrific cruelty.

The various people involved in this movement have different goals, some want a blanket ban forever, others want to see if there’s some way to trade humanely. But everyone has the same goal at the moment: to stop any more animals being treated the way we saw on 4 Corners. And that’s what the current campaign is about.

Ban live export… FFS. Nice blanket statement, you morons. You can’t ban live export, too many lives depend on the income it brings.

None of you are too keen on training the other countries on proper treatment, and I don’t see any proposals for the banning of halal and kosher meats.

All you idiots did was see a TV show that made you gasp and it gave you the urge to actually do something constructive with your consumer lives. Too bad your total lack of intelligence has made you prioritise the treatment of animals in another country as a higher concern than the humans in your own country.

Stevian said :

You can’t clean up the industry without stopping live export, because live export is ipso facto inhumane, so your statement is just so much weasel words.

Did you actually read the post he was responding to? It was EvanJames that said we have a range of options, so if that’s not the case then the weasel words are coming from the pro-ban side of the fence.

colourful sydney racing identity said :

chewy14 said :

EvanJames said :

It worries me that people could see what they do to those cattle, and feel that it’s OK so long as we are making money out of it.

I hope that the government can be motivated by these rallies and the letter-writing and other parts of the campaign to put in the effort to clean up this industry, so the animals are treated humanely and as we expect. There’s a range of ways we could ensure that the animals are killed without the disgusting cruelty we saw on 4 Corners.

But this rally isn’t about cleaning up the industry, it’s about stopping live export.
Thus I won’t support it.

Why do you support live export?

Good question, but I wouldn’t be expecting an answer

chewy14 said :

EvanJames said :

It worries me that people could see what they do to those cattle, and feel that it’s OK so long as we are making money out of it.

I hope that the government can be motivated by these rallies and the letter-writing and other parts of the campaign to put in the effort to clean up this industry, so the animals are treated humanely and as we expect. There’s a range of ways we could ensure that the animals are killed without the disgusting cruelty we saw on 4 Corners.

But this rally isn’t about cleaning up the industry, it’s about stopping live export.
Thus I won’t support it.

You can’t clean up the industry without stopping live export, because live export is ipso facto inhumane, so your statement is just so much weasel words.

Did you invite the affected farmers?

chewy14 said :

EvanJames said :

It worries me that people could see what they do to those cattle, and feel that it’s OK so long as we are making money out of it.

I hope that the government can be motivated by these rallies and the letter-writing and other parts of the campaign to put in the effort to clean up this industry, so the animals are treated humanely and as we expect. There’s a range of ways we could ensure that the animals are killed without the disgusting cruelty we saw on 4 Corners.

But this rally isn’t about cleaning up the industry, it’s about stopping live export.
Thus I won’t support it.

Why do you support live export?

qbngeek said :

Cool, I will bring a bbq and put on a sausage sizzle…after all we are all going to have to eat a lot more meat to ensure that thousands of people don’t lose their jobs and end up on welfare after you decimate an industry.

Can we bbq the animals australia twits instead??? Eating meat is being cruel to animals.

EvanJames said :

There’s a range of ways we could ensure that the animals are killed without the disgusting cruelty we saw on 4 Corners.

Indeed there are a range of ways, but I only see one option being presented by the organisers of this rally.

EvanJames said :

It worries me that people could see what they do to those cattle, and feel that it’s OK so long as we are making money out of it.

I hope that the government can be motivated by these rallies and the letter-writing and other parts of the campaign to put in the effort to clean up this industry, so the animals are treated humanely and as we expect. There’s a range of ways we could ensure that the animals are killed without the disgusting cruelty we saw on 4 Corners.

But this rally isn’t about cleaning up the industry, it’s about stopping live export.
Thus I won’t support it.

It worries me that people could see what they do to those cattle, and feel that it’s OK so long as we are making money out of it.

I hope that the government can be motivated by these rallies and the letter-writing and other parts of the campaign to put in the effort to clean up this industry, so the animals are treated humanely and as we expect. There’s a range of ways we could ensure that the animals are killed without the disgusting cruelty we saw on 4 Corners.

Cool, I will bring a bbq and put on a sausage sizzle…after all we are all going to have to eat a lot more meat to ensure that thousands of people don’t lose their jobs and end up on welfare after you decimate an industry

I think the federal government is doing a pretty good job at that.

Wekk I wasn’t going to bring the failings of Labor into it. There is plenty of time to discuss how they are decimating an entire country, not just an industry.

Cool, I will bring a bbq and put on a sausage sizzle…after all we are all going to have to eat a lot more meat to ensure that thousands of people don’t lose their jobs and end up on welfare after you decimate an industry.