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Barry wants Sydney’s second airport in Canberra!

By johnboy 15 February 2012 38

7 News brings word that NSW Premier Barry O’Farrell is pushing for an expansion of Canberra Airport and a fast rail link to solve Sydney’s air congestion:

Mr O’Farrell ruled out supporting a second airport in the Sydney basin.

“If you want to have greater flights into this city, do so as happens overseas, by using an adjacent airport and link the two by fast rail,” he told reporters on Wednesday.

“The best way to deal with a second airport for Sydney, is not have it in Sydney, but utilise Canberra Airport and link the two cities by fast rail.

“This is an endless debate that comes out from time to time. The fact is that no other part of Sydney is going to be contaminated by the sort of noise that is connected with an airport.

“Let’s accept that fact and start to invest in linking Canberra Airport and this city.”

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38 Responses to
Barry wants Sydney’s second airport in Canberra!
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harvyk1 11:48 am 16 Feb 12

Also Singapore airlines might also be able to make a Canberra – Singapore flight work (Asia is right now a big market for Australians), especially if the get code share agreements in place with Virgin, who is rumored to be eyeing off star alliance, and esp as they already have code share agreements in place with other star alliance members (namely AirNZ)

harvyk1 11:45 am 16 Feb 12

dungfungus said :

Answer to your third question is HAS BEEN TRIED BEFORE BUT UNVIABLE.

Yes, 3 flights weekly to Fiji which lasted a whole 3 months was never going to cut it. I don’t even believe they where appropriately times flights either.

I do believe there is enough of a demand for an international airport here in CBR, if they chose destinations which make sense. For example a direct CBR to Singapore flight would make sense, as would a direct Auckland \ Wellington flight. Of course with our national carrier currently cutting international routes, it’s unlikely they would be the one to do such flights. Strangely enough we may be a market for Emirates, given they often fly onto secondary destinations, so a Dubai \ Canberra \ Auckland flight could probably be made to work for them, esp if they used something like an A330 to do it… they already fly to Christchurch as a destination which has a similar number of people as Canberra.

If we also had reduced airline parking fees that could make us an attractive destination over the more typical Sydney \ Melbourne.

housebound 11:29 am 16 Feb 12

Chop71 said :

would be great for future generations to enjoy living in Canberra as a vibrant modern city.

Vibrant and modern – the catch-cry of government and developer mates spruiking efforts to carve up Canberra with high rise infill.

VYBerlinaV8_is_back 11:18 am 16 Feb 12

Canberra airport IS an international airport, it just doesn’t get many international flights arriving or leaving directly.

MsCheeky 11:08 am 16 Feb 12

“This is an endless debate that comes out from time to time. The fact is that no other part of Sydney is going to be contaminated by the sort of noise that is connected with an airport.

“Let’s accept that fact and start to invest in linking Canberra Airport and this city.”

This quote from O’Farrell says it all for me. Yes, the noise would be contamination, and of course people in Sydney don’t want it. So what makes it ok to send it to Canberra? Oh, we don’t vote in NSW elections.

EvanJames 10:53 am 16 Feb 12

Chop71 said :

Capital of Australia with no international airport??? This city really does struggle sometimes.

A VFT station where the ‘pleasure dome’ was to be built would be a great central civic location. You could even link it with light rail from major town centres. All those car park spots on the inside of London Circuit could be people who catch public transport to work after leaving there cars in Belco/Woden etc.

Hook the VFT past the airport to Sydney and you take plenty of people off the highway and out of planes doing the SYD-CBR dash.

It would cost plenty and I probably won’t see it in my lifetime, but would be great for future generations to enjoy living in Canberra as a vibrant modern city.

The airport has commisioned some quite detailed planning for a VFT line. It comes down the Majura Valley, with a terminal at the airport (passing under the new International Airport Hotel, from memory), and then proceeding to another terminal somewhere near the current train station, in the Fyshwick/Kingston area.

There’s no terminal for Civic. I suspect the curve needed to get from the airport to Civic would be too sharp for a VFT to negotiate. You can have an airport train terminal, or a Civic one, but not both.

Chop71 10:38 am 16 Feb 12

Capital of Australia with no international airport??? This city really does struggle sometimes.

A VFT station where the ‘pleasure dome’ was to be built would be a great central civic location. You could even link it with light rail from major town centres. All those car park spots on the inside of London Circuit could be people who catch public transport to work after leaving there cars in Belco/Woden etc.

Hook the VFT past the airport to Sydney and you take plenty of people off the highway and out of planes doing the SYD-CBR dash.

It would cost plenty and I probably won’t see it in my lifetime, but would be great for future generations to enjoy living in Canberra as a vibrant modern city.

Grail 10:38 am 16 Feb 12

EvanJames said :

I was afraid of this. Snow and his Airport Empire have been quietly lobbying the Sydney Government. And I bet they’ve been lobbying other stakeholders too, the federal government, big business, you name it.

See O’Farrell’s last statement, about noise. Sub-text: Canberrans haven’t worked out yet what will happen noise-wise, as the aiport has been assiduous about confining flights to very narrow areas, to ensure that Canberrans don’t twig to what they’re in for until it’s too late..

The lobbying has been quite public for some time. Jim Snow has been looking to upgrade the airport to international cargo standards for at least as long as he’s been in charge. The airport is very careful about flight paths precisely because they want to run the operation 24/7. They know that if noise levels get too high he’ll be slapped with a curfew, and that will destroy his profit margin.

This is exactly the reason that Canberra Airport lobbied against Tralee. What kind of stupid do you need to be to buy a house under the flight path of an airport that has loudly proclaimed its desire to make more noise?

Grail 10:32 am 16 Feb 12

EvanJames said :

Look at Sydney. They have two runways sticking out into the ocean. How then does plane noise affect so many people? Think about it.

Sydney has two airports. One is smack bang in the middle of Bankstown. There are no flight paths there which can avoid urban areas.

EvanJames 10:11 am 16 Feb 12

dungfungus said :

drfelonious said :

I’ll be brutally honest – what’s in it for Canberra?

I think Canberra would only get behind it IF we got a high speed rail link to Sydney (not mere promises of same).

Also wouldn’t hurt if we could get some direct cheap flights to overseas destinations or increase the number of domestic connections.

Answer to your first question is NOTHING.
Answer to your second question is ALL VFT STUDIES SO FAR SHOW IT IS ECONOMICALLY UNVIABLE.
Answer to your third question is HAS BEEN TRIED BEFORE BUT UNVIABLE.

The benefits would all accrue to Snow, as usual. Like the roadworks around the airport that weren’t budgetted-for, and weren’t needed until Snow built a CBD out there. People have short memories.

And yes, scoping for a VFT keep finding that it’s stunningly expensive, and the benefits don’t justify the expenditure. Just because the private owners of Canberra Airport want one, to help them make more money, doesn’t cut-it as justification to spend billions of taxpayers’ money.

As for all the jobs, jobs are always quoted as the great benefit, like a cargo cult, but the actual numbers in reality tend to be pretty unimpressive.

And when the airport first got to be all international and special, we did have direct flights, from memory there was Fiji and possibly even NZ. Fell in a heap, not enough demand, not surprisingly, and people are accustomed to factoring in a domestic connection. As Deye said further up, it depends on the fare and the route you’re after. I often fly to the US via Brisbane… fares and timings are often more attractive, plus I can avoid those flying death-trap super jumbos for a bit longer.

EvanJames 10:01 am 16 Feb 12

screaming banshee said :

And dont for one minute think we wont be landed with midnight arrivals of international freight.

There’s already a surprising number of flights coming in to Canberra after midnight. They route them in over NSW so as not to spook the ACT horses, but with higher volumes of flights coming in, (and taking off) naturally they’ll have spread them around more. Wind direction plays a part, too. The airport is being so very careful to ensure that flight noise affects as few ACT areas as possible, so people don’t get worried about it.

What the airport has planned though, will see a lot more noise, and it will affect a lot more people. All through the night and early hours.

Look at Sydney. They have two runways sticking out into the ocean. How then does plane noise affect so many people? Think about it.

dungfungus 9:00 am 16 Feb 12

drfelonious said :

I’ll be brutally honest – what’s in it for Canberra?

I think Canberra would only get behind it IF we got a high speed rail link to Sydney (not mere promises of same).

Also wouldn’t hurt if we could get some direct cheap flights to overseas destinations or increase the number of domestic connections.

Answer to your first question is NOTHING.
Answer to your second question is ALL VFT STUDIES SO FAR SHOW IT IS ECONOMICALLY UNVIABLE.
Answer to your third question is HAS BEEN TRIED BEFORE BUT UNVIABLE.

drfelonious 7:45 am 16 Feb 12

I’ll be brutally honest – what’s in it for Canberra?

I think Canberra would only get behind it IF we got a high speed rail link to Sydney (not mere promises of same).

Also wouldn’t hurt if we could get some direct cheap flights to overseas destinations or increase the number of domestic connections.

Deref 7:30 am 16 Feb 12

PrinceOfAles said :

Jivrashia said :

Talk about noise pollution from air traffic, can someone from North Watson, who live somewhat under the take-off flight path, comment?

I live on Aspinall St just over the back of Mt Majura and never ever hear a thing.

That’s because there’s a bloody great hill between Watson and the airport. It really was a very smart piece of planning. Contrast with the idiocy of building Queanbeyan suburbs directly under the flight path.

shauno 12:33 am 16 Feb 12

steveu said :

EvanJames said :

Noise will increase. Flights will happen over all parts of the ACT and surrounding areas. And it will be ALL NIGHT.

This is it. Sydney hate the thought of more aircraft and the noise that they generate, so lets give it to Canberrans instead.

And yep Snow will eventually get to expand his empire. The cynic in me suggests that we cant dodge this one. But I do like the idea of bringing jobs to Canberra with it.

Canberra can still have a curfew just like Sydney has now. Its just that the demand for flights means delays down the line as they cant fit them all in. Canberra would be mad to not pursue this it will be of enormous benefit to Canberra and Australia.

shauno 12:06 am 16 Feb 12

RedDogInCan said :

I’m obviously missing something here. If you have just arrived at an airport from overseas, why would you want to travel to another airport? It’s not like Sydney, or anywhere in Australia even, is a travel hub – most passengers are at the end of their journey when they get here.

It doesn’t even make sense for domestic connections. For a start you aren’t going to fly to Sydney to catch a domestic flight to Melbourne or Brisbane when you can fly there direct. Even for people coming from or going to Sydney, it seems a bit silly to make them go to the already congested Sydney airport to just to catch a train to or from Canberra airport – why not provide the service direct from feeder areas?

It would probably be something like in the UK where the smaller airports around London like Gatwick and Stansted, Luton are used for lower cost airlines and freight mostly. So Canberra could be the same and people would pay a cheaper fare to fly to Canberra instead of Sydney. They could bundle the train ticket in their fare. And if they build the VFT properly would only be an hour to Sydney, Be bloody expensive to build though but easy for this govt having wasted 14 billion on school halls and probably 50 to 70 billion on a white elephant NBN so another 10 billion on the VFT no worries.

Gungahlin Al 10:24 pm 15 Feb 12

Surely the hugest case of NIMBYism ever from the NSW Premier?

I wake to the dulcet tones of the first morning flights every day as they loop around Gungahlin. And despite the Airport’s grandstanding in their Master Plan about supporting changes to the Noise Abatement Zone boundaries, they quite happily stood aside while AirServices Australia said nah bugger off. And it seems Federal Transport Minister Anthony Albanese – despite signing off on aforesaid plan – is happy to let this slide too.

I’d hate to see their grand freight hub vision come off. People just have no concept about how much noisier it would become, compared to the near silence we have at night now. Sydney’s noise should stay in Sydney

astrojax 10:02 pm 15 Feb 12

i want a slow train to sydney… oh, wait. it’d take six minutes before canberra got a curfew and eleventeen years before a useful rail link, so doomed to failure as an option.

badgery’s creek, again, anyone?

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