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Barton paid parking not a runaway success

By johnboy 12 October 2010 65

The Canberra Times has the sad news that the Morris Property Group car park in Barton is running somewhat under capacity:

Yesterday at lunchtime only about 100 of the 612 bays were in use.

Nearby workers have been parking in side streets and on vacant land in Barton and Parkes to avoid paying.

Morris Property Group director Louise Morris attributed the small number of people using the car park to the availability of free parking elsewhere.

”It’s been very under-utilised,” she said.

The NCA is due to release a discussion paper on paid parking in the parliamentary triangle soon.


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Barton paid parking not a runaway success
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Beef 1:35 pm 24 Oct 10

Who pays for parking? I’m worried when my next dole cheque is coming. Get a grip u insane outsiders. Migrate here and tell us what is and isn’t. G is your mortgage too high?

Aenveigh 9:21 pm 20 Oct 10

You raise the point that taxpayers/hospitals paid for the car park. This would of course mean that we’ve already paid for it. “Tax on a tax” comes to mind.

The only people that hospital pay parking hurts is the sick, families and friends of the sick, and the people who work with the sick. Nice.

Every tax dollar that goes to providing ‘free’ parking is in fact a dollar that can’t be spent on the sick. When the parking is free, people treat it as an unlimited resource. Therefore, demand is uncapped and everyone drives. The next thing you know, you need to build [i]another[/i] multideck carpark at great expense (that could have bought, say an MRI machine – or ten). Instead if you priced (reasonably, not gouged) the parking, those that could walk, get bus, get dropped off, cycle etc to the hospital do so. Those that do stay don’t overstay, freeing up spaces for those that really must be there.

If you actually recovered the true cost of the carpark from those that used it (so those getting the bus, walking, cycling aren’t subsidizing car drivers) and those funds were then made available to the hospital (acceptance would be good if you knew the funds were going back into health, not general revenue – and fair enough too) to care for sick people – is that so unreasonable?

Erg0 4:30 pm 19 Oct 10

screaming banshee said :

Erg0 said :

Providing visitors to the triangle with free parking would be considered a service, surely? This sounds a bit like the “I won’t use a women’s hospital, they should get rid of it and reduce my taxes instead” argument. Just because the service isn’t being provided to you that doesn’t make it a waste of government money.

Absolutely providing free parking to visitors would be considered a service, the problem is the visitor parking is being taken up by workers because there is insufficient control over ensuring that visitor parking is being used by visitors.

Poor choice of words on my part, “visitors” is meant to encompass anyone who drives into the triangle, regardless of purpose.

I don’t know what things are like nowadays, but there were always spare spots in the car park next to West Block when I worked there a few years ago. I gather that rising parking costs in Civic have prompted some people to start parking in the triangle and catching the (regular, speedy) bus the rest of the way down Commonwealth Ave, so I wouldn’t be too quick to assume that the people working in the triangle are to blame for overflowing car parks in the tourist areas.

bjnetzone 3:18 pm 19 Oct 10

screaming banshee said :

Erg0 said :

Providing visitors to the triangle with free parking would be considered a service, surely? This sounds a bit like the “I won’t use a women’s hospital, they should get rid of it and reduce my taxes instead” argument. Just because the service isn’t being provided to you that doesn’t make it a waste of government money.

Absolutely providing free parking to visitors would be considered a service, the problem is the visitor parking is being taken up by workers because there is insufficient control over ensuring that visitor parking is being used by visitors.

As for why you should be able to park for free in the triangle, all I’ve heard is, nowhere to post a letter, nowhere to buy lunch, nowhere to pay bills.

Posting a letter:
Take a walk around you local streets, a post box wont be that far away. If you’re a lazy shite then drive past it on your way home.

Lunch:
Please, most offices contain or have a small cafe nearby, if not then it will more than likely be serviced by a mobile cafe. Then of course you always have the option of packing a lunch.

Paying bills:
You’re shitting me right! Bpay, or if you’re that old fashioned mail a cheque…see ‘Posting a letter’

1. Posting a letter is different to having a Post Office nearby. Last time I checked, you can do more than post a letter at a Post Office, including paying bills where the biller doesn’t use BPAY, and other stuff.
2. Don’t use office cafes. They charge like wounded bulls (or pay-carpark owners). I don’t pay $9.50 for a pissy little sandwich, ’cause I’m a tight-arse for a reason (bring on the trolls). Office cafes assume (like most people) that those who work in the PT are uber-rich, and charge accordingly. And was that “Please” or “Puhleeeease”?
3. No, I’m not shitting you. Don’t have a chequebook, and to get a money order, you need a Post Office (go figure – something else you can do at a Post Office). A bank cheque needs a Bank (something else the PT doesn’t have), and costs extra (also goes for money order and a chequebook). See (1) for BPAY and (2) for tight-arse.
4. These three examples are three out of many that showcase the PT as a wasteland (apart from the walking brain-dead). Put a Westfield in the PT, and I’ll consider being brainwashed about pay parking. Actually, no, I won’t.
5. So providing free parking for people who don’t have to be there, but charging for people who do have to be there seems fair to you? (“There’s logic in there somewhere Spock”…) Again, not just talking about PT or Canberra, but anywhere that charges workers to park.

bjnetzone 2:48 pm 19 Oct 10

Aenveigh said :

bjnetzone said :

Top of the scum-sucking list is pay parking at hospitals.

http://www.reinventingparking.org/search/label/hospitals

Actually it’s useful to charge for parking at hospitals. I’m not saying there shouldn’t be exemptions, but in general, why should it be free to park there? They are high-value destinations, often located in or near busy commercial centres. Free parking would therefore be great for commuters. But where do the patients park then? Build a multi-deck carpark for tens of millions? It costs a lot of money to provide free parking!! But who pays for that cost – taxpayers, the hospital – and how then do you pay for actual health care if you’ve spent that money on housing cars instead of caring for people?

I’m against monopoly pricing of hospital carparks (as they’re often run by the hospital, there’s no competition) but equally a fair price for visitors, commuters choosing to use it (pay more) etc. Say free for 2 hours, sliding scale after that. Outpatients could validate for 4 hours free, same as you see at commercial centres – you get longer free if you’re a proven ‘customer’ rather than just taking advantage. In Canberra the PT is ok, not great so bump that up a bit, and in most other cities there’s pretty great PT to most hospitals. Why travel there in a vehicle more likely to cause you to become a patient if you can take the bus/train instead? ; )

Garran, Deakin and Bruce? Hardly close to commercial centres (by that I mean town centres).

You raise the point that taxpayers/hospitals paid for the car park. This would of course mean that we’ve already paid for it. “Tax on a tax” comes to mind.

The only people that hospital pay parking hurts is the sick, families and friends of the sick, and the people who work with the sick. Nice.

bjnetzone 2:36 pm 19 Oct 10

KB1971 said :

bjnetzone said :

stuff…

Ok then, 6 kids, I am in admiration of you (seriously).

Seriously, KB, don’t be in admiration, I suck at it. The older I get, the less patience I have…

KB1971 1:35 pm 18 Oct 10

bjnetzone said :

KB said: “3 kids, wife at home (at the moment), daycare close to home, soon to be school close to home, 30km into the city, bus & cycle. Full time work, usually arrive at 8 & finish around 4:30-5pm and I get a couple of hours of riding in a day.

Yes we relied on the car when she was at work (as everybody does) but I dont winge about the cost. If we didnt have a car, we would be organised differently.

I saw your point but all I could see was winging & moaning about how you have not organised your life better.

Why would you have your kids in more than one school? If they are at high school then they can catch the bus. There is a bus stop outside my house & I see people dropping their kids off in their cars, what are the kids legs painted on?

The guy on the bike, he is riding up Adelaide ave almost every day, you put two & two together.”

KB. We’re as organised as we can be. 6 kids (5 at home, 4 students, 1 working – 1 primary, 2 secondary, 1 tertiary). Different schools because different levels. You’d be amazed at how many times teenage girls miss their bus to school (or how many times the bus just doesn’t turn up). It’s hair dryer heaven :). Their disorganisation can throw our somewhat tenuous organisation out the window in an instant, but they’re learning. Wife and I both work full-time. Don’t do morning daycare for the youngest because of the cost. No, their legs are not painted on, but I’m sure that walking to the bus stop will “make their hair all frizzy” (we just cannot have a bad hair day). We don’t have a bus stop outside our house. I am 30 minutes from work (in Barton, which is why I posted on this subject). None of this warrants whinging, as this is the life that we set up for ourselves, and, apart from the teenage-girl-tantrums on a near-daily basis, it’s a great life.

What I have a problem with is the added potential cost of working in the PT with the addition of pay parking. Yeah, I could go for another job, but I like the one I have. I shouldn’t have to change jobs because the ACT Government (and anyone else who collects from pay parking) are a bunch of money-hungry greed-mongers. My point (which was completely ignored by the trolls), was that anyone who drives to work (and I mean anyone, public/private/Canberra or elsewhere) shouldn’t have the added cost of paying to park.

Note to self: I really shouldn’t reply to bumfuzzled trolls (not referring to you KB).

The guy riding up Adelaide Avenue, my two + two = a guy risking the life and limb of him and his kid by riding up Adelaide Avenue on a bike. Seriously, I like to ride, but I like life too much to do that. (Hehe, don’t get me started on Canberra drivers)… I’d call DoCS after seeing that. Please tell me they’re helmeted?

P.S. Isn’t RiotACT Canberran for “whinge”? Or is it Canberran for “I am a small-minded loser with no brain and small-man-syndrome *wink*, so I’ll jump on RiotACT and tell everyone that they’re misguided stupid simpletons because I can, and, look Mum, I can do it one-handed”?

Ok then, 6 kids, I am in admiration of you (seriously). Did you buy a TV in the end 🙂

I must admit, I thought the same thing about where he was riding. I certainly would not use Adelaide ave unless I had to (I now ride form Commonwealth Ave to kent St throught Yarralumla) I do admire him for thinking outside the square though.

As long as we have an NCA, I think your free parking will be safe………

WillowJim 3:30 pm 16 Oct 10

What screaming banshee (#56) said. And Aenveigh (#57).

Aenveigh 12:20 pm 16 Oct 10

bjnetzone said :

Top of the scum-sucking list is pay parking at hospitals.

http://www.reinventingparking.org/search/label/hospitals

Actually it’s useful to charge for parking at hospitals. I’m not saying there shouldn’t be exemptions, but in general, why should it be free to park there? They are high-value destinations, often located in or near busy commercial centres. Free parking would therefore be great for commuters. But where do the patients park then? Build a multi-deck carpark for tens of millions? It costs a lot of money to provide free parking!! But who pays for that cost – taxpayers, the hospital – and how then do you pay for actual health care if you’ve spent that money on housing cars instead of caring for people?

I’m against monopoly pricing of hospital carparks (as they’re often run by the hospital, there’s no competition) but equally a fair price for visitors, commuters choosing to use it (pay more) etc. Say free for 2 hours, sliding scale after that. Outpatients could validate for 4 hours free, same as you see at commercial centres – you get longer free if you’re a proven ‘customer’ rather than just taking advantage. In Canberra the PT is ok, not great so bump that up a bit, and in most other cities there’s pretty great PT to most hospitals. Why travel there in a vehicle more likely to cause you to become a patient if you can take the bus/train instead? ; )

screaming banshee 10:10 pm 15 Oct 10

Erg0 said :

Providing visitors to the triangle with free parking would be considered a service, surely? This sounds a bit like the “I won’t use a women’s hospital, they should get rid of it and reduce my taxes instead” argument. Just because the service isn’t being provided to you that doesn’t make it a waste of government money.

Absolutely providing free parking to visitors would be considered a service, the problem is the visitor parking is being taken up by workers because there is insufficient control over ensuring that visitor parking is being used by visitors.

As for why you should be able to park for free in the triangle, all I’ve heard is, nowhere to post a letter, nowhere to buy lunch, nowhere to pay bills.

Posting a letter:
Take a walk around you local streets, a post box wont be that far away. If you’re a lazy shite then drive past it on your way home.

Lunch:
Please, most offices contain or have a small cafe nearby, if not then it will more than likely be serviced by a mobile cafe. Then of course you always have the option of packing a lunch.

Paying bills:
You’re shitting me right! Bpay, or if you’re that old fashioned mail a cheque…see ‘Posting a letter’

santiago 9:11 pm 15 Oct 10

Jethro said :

Teachers should also have to pay for their parking. The perks those bludgers get are just getting ridiculous.

and cyclists.

bjnetzone 9:20 pm 14 Oct 10

KB said: “3 kids, wife at home (at the moment), daycare close to home, soon to be school close to home, 30km into the city, bus & cycle. Full time work, usually arrive at 8 & finish around 4:30-5pm and I get a couple of hours of riding in a day.

Yes we relied on the car when she was at work (as everybody does) but I dont winge about the cost. If we didnt have a car, we would be organised differently.

I saw your point but all I could see was winging & moaning about how you have not organised your life better.

Why would you have your kids in more than one school? If they are at high school then they can catch the bus. There is a bus stop outside my house & I see people dropping their kids off in their cars, what are the kids legs painted on?

The guy on the bike, he is riding up Adelaide ave almost every day, you put two & two together.”

KB. We’re as organised as we can be. 6 kids (5 at home, 4 students, 1 working – 1 primary, 2 secondary, 1 tertiary). Different schools because different levels. You’d be amazed at how many times teenage girls miss their bus to school (or how many times the bus just doesn’t turn up). It’s hair dryer heaven :). Their disorganisation can throw our somewhat tenuous organisation out the window in an instant, but they’re learning. Wife and I both work full-time. Don’t do morning daycare for the youngest because of the cost. No, their legs are not painted on, but I’m sure that walking to the bus stop will “make their hair all frizzy” (we just cannot have a bad hair day). We don’t have a bus stop outside our house. I am 30 minutes from work (in Barton, which is why I posted on this subject). None of this warrants whinging, as this is the life that we set up for ourselves, and, apart from the teenage-girl-tantrums on a near-daily basis, it’s a great life.

What I have a problem with is the added potential cost of working in the PT with the addition of pay parking. Yeah, I could go for another job, but I like the one I have. I shouldn’t have to change jobs because the ACT Government (and anyone else who collects from pay parking) are a bunch of money-hungry greed-mongers. My point (which was completely ignored by the trolls), was that anyone who drives to work (and I mean anyone, public/private/Canberra or elsewhere) shouldn’t have the added cost of paying to park.

Now, trolls, before you blow a gasket again because you pay for parking and think that everyone who doesn’t, should, I am saying that because I don’t pay for parking at work (right now), neither should you (ie. trying to make your life less expensive – shame some people can’t comprehend the concept).

BTW – while parking in the PT, my car has been broken into, twice, in six months. Nice bastards. I am hanging to pay $8 so some druggo loser can break into my car again. If I wanted to fork out for derro-breakage, I’d park in Civic.

I sometimes wonder at what point in time we (collectively) accepted pay parking at shops, on the street, parking lots, airports, hospitals, and now cemeteries, without saying or doing anything. Are we so used to being downtrodden, that we just say “Yeah, $70 for 4 hours of parking in Sydney CBD, hell yes, I’ll pay”; “$30 a day at the Belconnen clusterf***, not a problem. While I am here, just take my wallet and beat the crap out of me, I already feel like I’ve been mugged…”; “$40 per week to park in the middle of offices, but nowhere around where I can post a letter, buy lunch or pay my bills without jumping in a car at lunchtime, take me to town and get me drunk – what a bargain!”… Next the Government will charge us to park in our driveways at home, we we’ll just bend over and take it up the back passage.

Note to self: I really shouldn’t reply to bumfuzzled trolls (not referring to you KB).

The guy riding up Adelaide Avenue, my two + two = a guy risking the life and limb of him and his kid by riding up Adelaide Avenue on a bike. Seriously, I like to ride, but I like life too much to do that. (Hehe, don’t get me started on Canberra drivers)… I’d call DoCS after seeing that. Please tell me they’re helmeted?

P.S. Isn’t RiotACT Canberran for “whinge”? Or is it Canberran for “I am a small-minded loser with no brain and small-man-syndrome *wink*, so I’ll jump on RiotACT and tell everyone that they’re misguided stupid simpletons because I can, and, look Mum, I can do it one-handed”?

KB1971 4:06 pm 14 Oct 10

bjnetzone said :

KB1971 said :

bjnetzone said :

troll-sniffer said :

The Great Bambino said :

But as I said before, no one should have to pay to park there car at their place of employment in Canberra.

So by your rather in-depth and well conceived line of reasoning, I can equally validly say “No Canberran should have to pay for lunch if they’ve gone to work for the day.”

No offence, but yours is a 1d1OT statement of the highest order.

Totally disagree with you troll-sniffer. Road users already pay for registration, taxes on fuel, taxes on vehicle maintenance, and, most pay income and other taxes. We pay enough already, I think, was Bambino’s point. The use of cars for most people is a necessity, especially if you work and have kids – eating lunch isn’t (have breakfast and dinner instead, if you must). No offence, but your reasoning is not in-depth, nor well-conceived, nor valid… Oh, and the word ‘idiot’ doesn’t contain numbers in the English language…

I work & have kids, work in the city & dont rely on my car so whats your point?

I regularly see a guy with is son in a child seat riding to work & I dare say his sons daycare on the way.

Congratulations. Do you drop your kids at school (without daycare), then catch a bus to the city? How far from the city are you? How many schools do you drop your kids off to before you go to work? Do you pick them up as well? What time do you get to work and leave? Are you full-time?

Easy to say when you work in the city. Just about every bus in Canberra goes there, it’s central, and it doesn’t take long to get there from anywhere in Canberra on a bus. Try not working in the city, take 3 buses from home to work, and another 3 from work to home, drop off and pick up kids from schools (note more than one) and work a full-time position. It’s difficult on public transport, is my point. Most would not need that explained to them.

So, you see a guy with his son in a child seat. Did you stop and ask if he was going to work, and if his kid’s childcare is on the way? If not, what’s your point?

3 kids, wife at home (at the moment), daycare close to home, soon to be school close to home, 30km into the city, bus & cycle. Full time work, usually arrive at 8 & finish around 4:30-5pm and I get a couple of hours of riding in a day.

Yes we relied on the car when she was at work (as everybody does) but I dont winge about the cost. If we didnt have a car, we would be organised differently.

I saw your point but all I could see was winging & moaning about how you have not organised your life better.

Why would you have your kids in more than one school? If they are at high school then they can catch the bus. There is a bus stop outside my house & I see people dropping their kids off in their cars, what are the kids legs painted on?

The guy on the bike, he is riding up Adelaide ave almost every day, you put two & two together.

bjnetzone 10:05 am 14 Oct 10

Woody Mann-Caruso said :

No Canberran should have to pay for parking at their place of employment.

So … why is it that Canberrans shouldn’t have to pay for parking at their place of work, but it’s okay in every other city on the face of the planet Earth?

Also, I bought my house because it was conveniently located near my place of employment, the government should pay my mortgage.

Jim. Good Lord, I hate repeating myself to cater for the lowest common denominator… But I’ll do it anyway… I said “I would extend it to ‘No-one who drives to work should have to pay for parking'”. References to Canberrans only was said by someone else, although I did agree, not because it’s Canberra, but because I think Industry and Government who make their workers pay to park their car are money-grabbing scum-sucking lowlifes. Top of the scum-sucking list is pay parking at hospitals.

I’m quite happy for you to pay to park your car, however. Good luck getting the Government to pay your mortgage.

Erg0 9:11 am 14 Oct 10

screaming banshee said :

Ask yourself who owns the land you are parking on? If it is privately owned then that owner would expect a return.

One might wonder if that’s a reasonable expectation when said car park is located in an area where free parking is abundant.

If it is govt. owned and free then that is money that the govt. could be earning to provide more services or reduce taxes.

Providing visitors to the triangle with free parking would be considered a service, surely? This sounds a bit like the “I won’t use a women’s hospital, they should get rid of it and reduce my taxes instead” argument. Just because the service isn’t being provided to you that doesn’t make it a waste of government money.

I work in Barton, but I don’t park for free (my company leases parking). I would say that the biggest parking problem in the area is the inability to get a two hour spot after about 9am because of all the people using them to avoid paying for all-day parking.

Jethro 9:29 pm 13 Oct 10

Teachers should also have to pay for their parking. The perks those bludgers get are just getting ridiculous.

bjnetzone 9:09 pm 13 Oct 10

Jim Jones said :

troll-sniffer said :

Tsk tsk tsk the misguided simpletons are coming out in droves now aren’t they? Bjnetzone, there are so many populist half-truths and untruths in your response that it beggars belief. I’ll leave it there bacause anyone living a life with opinions about social responsibilities as misguided as yours will never benefit from rational discourse.

The stupid is strong in this one!

Is that the best you’ve got? I thought I saw “Agitator” under your name, genius…

screaming banshee 7:40 pm 13 Oct 10

Jeez, I crossed it out didn’t I!

Ask yourself who owns the land you are parking on? If it is privately owned then that owner would expect a return. If it is govt. owned and free then that is money that the govt. could be earning to provide more services or reduce taxes.

As for where I and others work. The owner of the commercial property that I work at owns the carpark and it is provided to their tenants for staff and customers as part of the lease. That doesn’t mean that the parking is free, but annualised and incorporated into the lease.

wycx 7:36 pm 13 Oct 10

Maybe they could redevelop their carpark into high density residential and relieve parking congestion by actually having people live close to their work?

bjnetzone 6:13 pm 13 Oct 10

KB1971 said :

bjnetzone said :

troll-sniffer said :

The Great Bambino said :

But as I said before, no one should have to pay to park there car at their place of employment in Canberra.

So by your rather in-depth and well conceived line of reasoning, I can equally validly say “No Canberran should have to pay for lunch if they’ve gone to work for the day.”

No offence, but yours is a 1d1OT statement of the highest order.

Totally disagree with you troll-sniffer. Road users already pay for registration, taxes on fuel, taxes on vehicle maintenance, and, most pay income and other taxes. We pay enough already, I think, was Bambino’s point. The use of cars for most people is a necessity, especially if you work and have kids – eating lunch isn’t (have breakfast and dinner instead, if you must). No offence, but your reasoning is not in-depth, nor well-conceived, nor valid… Oh, and the word ‘idiot’ doesn’t contain numbers in the English language…

I work & have kids, work in the city & dont rely on my car so whats your point?

I regularly see a guy with is son in a child seat riding to work & I dare say his sons daycare on the way.

Congratulations. Do you drop your kids at school (without daycare), then catch a bus to the city? How far from the city are you? How many schools do you drop your kids off to before you go to work? Do you pick them up as well? What time do you get to work and leave? Are you full-time?

Easy to say when you work in the city. Just about every bus in Canberra goes there, it’s central, and it doesn’t take long to get there from anywhere in Canberra on a bus. Try not working in the city, take 3 buses from home to work, and another 3 from work to home, drop off and pick up kids from schools (note more than one) and work a full-time position. It’s difficult on public transport, is my point. Most would not need that explained to them.

So, you see a guy with his son in a child seat. Did you stop and ask if he was going to work, and if his kid’s childcare is on the way? If not, what’s your point?

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