12 October 2010

Barton paid parking not a runaway success

| johnboy
Join the conversation
65

The Canberra Times has the sad news that the Morris Property Group car park in Barton is running somewhat under capacity:

Yesterday at lunchtime only about 100 of the 612 bays were in use.

Nearby workers have been parking in side streets and on vacant land in Barton and Parkes to avoid paying.

Morris Property Group director Louise Morris attributed the small number of people using the car park to the availability of free parking elsewhere.

”It’s been very under-utilised,” she said.

The NCA is due to release a discussion paper on paid parking in the parliamentary triangle soon.

Join the conversation

65
All Comments
  • All Comments
  • Website Comments
LatestOldest

Who pays for parking? I’m worried when my next dole cheque is coming. Get a grip u insane outsiders. Migrate here and tell us what is and isn’t. G is your mortgage too high?

You raise the point that taxpayers/hospitals paid for the car park. This would of course mean that we’ve already paid for it. “Tax on a tax” comes to mind.

The only people that hospital pay parking hurts is the sick, families and friends of the sick, and the people who work with the sick. Nice.

Every tax dollar that goes to providing ‘free’ parking is in fact a dollar that can’t be spent on the sick. When the parking is free, people treat it as an unlimited resource. Therefore, demand is uncapped and everyone drives. The next thing you know, you need to build [i]another[/i] multideck carpark at great expense (that could have bought, say an MRI machine – or ten). Instead if you priced (reasonably, not gouged) the parking, those that could walk, get bus, get dropped off, cycle etc to the hospital do so. Those that do stay don’t overstay, freeing up spaces for those that really must be there.

If you actually recovered the true cost of the carpark from those that used it (so those getting the bus, walking, cycling aren’t subsidizing car drivers) and those funds were then made available to the hospital (acceptance would be good if you knew the funds were going back into health, not general revenue – and fair enough too) to care for sick people – is that so unreasonable?

screaming banshee said :

Erg0 said :

Providing visitors to the triangle with free parking would be considered a service, surely? This sounds a bit like the “I won’t use a women’s hospital, they should get rid of it and reduce my taxes instead” argument. Just because the service isn’t being provided to you that doesn’t make it a waste of government money.

Absolutely providing free parking to visitors would be considered a service, the problem is the visitor parking is being taken up by workers because there is insufficient control over ensuring that visitor parking is being used by visitors.

Poor choice of words on my part, “visitors” is meant to encompass anyone who drives into the triangle, regardless of purpose.

I don’t know what things are like nowadays, but there were always spare spots in the car park next to West Block when I worked there a few years ago. I gather that rising parking costs in Civic have prompted some people to start parking in the triangle and catching the (regular, speedy) bus the rest of the way down Commonwealth Ave, so I wouldn’t be too quick to assume that the people working in the triangle are to blame for overflowing car parks in the tourist areas.

screaming banshee said :

Erg0 said :

Providing visitors to the triangle with free parking would be considered a service, surely? This sounds a bit like the “I won’t use a women’s hospital, they should get rid of it and reduce my taxes instead” argument. Just because the service isn’t being provided to you that doesn’t make it a waste of government money.

Absolutely providing free parking to visitors would be considered a service, the problem is the visitor parking is being taken up by workers because there is insufficient control over ensuring that visitor parking is being used by visitors.

As for why you should be able to park for free in the triangle, all I’ve heard is, nowhere to post a letter, nowhere to buy lunch, nowhere to pay bills.

Posting a letter:
Take a walk around you local streets, a post box wont be that far away. If you’re a lazy shite then drive past it on your way home.

Lunch:
Please, most offices contain or have a small cafe nearby, if not then it will more than likely be serviced by a mobile cafe. Then of course you always have the option of packing a lunch.

Paying bills:
You’re shitting me right! Bpay, or if you’re that old fashioned mail a cheque…see ‘Posting a letter’

1. Posting a letter is different to having a Post Office nearby. Last time I checked, you can do more than post a letter at a Post Office, including paying bills where the biller doesn’t use BPAY, and other stuff.
2. Don’t use office cafes. They charge like wounded bulls (or pay-carpark owners). I don’t pay $9.50 for a pissy little sandwich, ’cause I’m a tight-arse for a reason (bring on the trolls). Office cafes assume (like most people) that those who work in the PT are uber-rich, and charge accordingly. And was that “Please” or “Puhleeeease”?
3. No, I’m not shitting you. Don’t have a chequebook, and to get a money order, you need a Post Office (go figure – something else you can do at a Post Office). A bank cheque needs a Bank (something else the PT doesn’t have), and costs extra (also goes for money order and a chequebook). See (1) for BPAY and (2) for tight-arse.
4. These three examples are three out of many that showcase the PT as a wasteland (apart from the walking brain-dead). Put a Westfield in the PT, and I’ll consider being brainwashed about pay parking. Actually, no, I won’t.
5. So providing free parking for people who don’t have to be there, but charging for people who do have to be there seems fair to you? (“There’s logic in there somewhere Spock”…) Again, not just talking about PT or Canberra, but anywhere that charges workers to park.

Aenveigh said :

bjnetzone said :

Top of the scum-sucking list is pay parking at hospitals.

http://www.reinventingparking.org/search/label/hospitals

Actually it’s useful to charge for parking at hospitals. I’m not saying there shouldn’t be exemptions, but in general, why should it be free to park there? They are high-value destinations, often located in or near busy commercial centres. Free parking would therefore be great for commuters. But where do the patients park then? Build a multi-deck carpark for tens of millions? It costs a lot of money to provide free parking!! But who pays for that cost – taxpayers, the hospital – and how then do you pay for actual health care if you’ve spent that money on housing cars instead of caring for people?

I’m against monopoly pricing of hospital carparks (as they’re often run by the hospital, there’s no competition) but equally a fair price for visitors, commuters choosing to use it (pay more) etc. Say free for 2 hours, sliding scale after that. Outpatients could validate for 4 hours free, same as you see at commercial centres – you get longer free if you’re a proven ‘customer’ rather than just taking advantage. In Canberra the PT is ok, not great so bump that up a bit, and in most other cities there’s pretty great PT to most hospitals. Why travel there in a vehicle more likely to cause you to become a patient if you can take the bus/train instead? ; )

Garran, Deakin and Bruce? Hardly close to commercial centres (by that I mean town centres).

You raise the point that taxpayers/hospitals paid for the car park. This would of course mean that we’ve already paid for it. “Tax on a tax” comes to mind.

The only people that hospital pay parking hurts is the sick, families and friends of the sick, and the people who work with the sick. Nice.

KB1971 said :

bjnetzone said :

stuff…

Ok then, 6 kids, I am in admiration of you (seriously).

Seriously, KB, don’t be in admiration, I suck at it. The older I get, the less patience I have…

bjnetzone said :

KB said: “3 kids, wife at home (at the moment), daycare close to home, soon to be school close to home, 30km into the city, bus & cycle. Full time work, usually arrive at 8 & finish around 4:30-5pm and I get a couple of hours of riding in a day.

Yes we relied on the car when she was at work (as everybody does) but I dont winge about the cost. If we didnt have a car, we would be organised differently.

I saw your point but all I could see was winging & moaning about how you have not organised your life better.

Why would you have your kids in more than one school? If they are at high school then they can catch the bus. There is a bus stop outside my house & I see people dropping their kids off in their cars, what are the kids legs painted on?

The guy on the bike, he is riding up Adelaide ave almost every day, you put two & two together.”

KB. We’re as organised as we can be. 6 kids (5 at home, 4 students, 1 working – 1 primary, 2 secondary, 1 tertiary). Different schools because different levels. You’d be amazed at how many times teenage girls miss their bus to school (or how many times the bus just doesn’t turn up). It’s hair dryer heaven :). Their disorganisation can throw our somewhat tenuous organisation out the window in an instant, but they’re learning. Wife and I both work full-time. Don’t do morning daycare for the youngest because of the cost. No, their legs are not painted on, but I’m sure that walking to the bus stop will “make their hair all frizzy” (we just cannot have a bad hair day). We don’t have a bus stop outside our house. I am 30 minutes from work (in Barton, which is why I posted on this subject). None of this warrants whinging, as this is the life that we set up for ourselves, and, apart from the teenage-girl-tantrums on a near-daily basis, it’s a great life.

What I have a problem with is the added potential cost of working in the PT with the addition of pay parking. Yeah, I could go for another job, but I like the one I have. I shouldn’t have to change jobs because the ACT Government (and anyone else who collects from pay parking) are a bunch of money-hungry greed-mongers. My point (which was completely ignored by the trolls), was that anyone who drives to work (and I mean anyone, public/private/Canberra or elsewhere) shouldn’t have the added cost of paying to park.

Note to self: I really shouldn’t reply to bumfuzzled trolls (not referring to you KB).

The guy riding up Adelaide Avenue, my two + two = a guy risking the life and limb of him and his kid by riding up Adelaide Avenue on a bike. Seriously, I like to ride, but I like life too much to do that. (Hehe, don’t get me started on Canberra drivers)… I’d call DoCS after seeing that. Please tell me they’re helmeted?

P.S. Isn’t RiotACT Canberran for “whinge”? Or is it Canberran for “I am a small-minded loser with no brain and small-man-syndrome *wink*, so I’ll jump on RiotACT and tell everyone that they’re misguided stupid simpletons because I can, and, look Mum, I can do it one-handed”?

Ok then, 6 kids, I am in admiration of you (seriously). Did you buy a TV in the end 🙂

I must admit, I thought the same thing about where he was riding. I certainly would not use Adelaide ave unless I had to (I now ride form Commonwealth Ave to kent St throught Yarralumla) I do admire him for thinking outside the square though.

As long as we have an NCA, I think your free parking will be safe………

What screaming banshee (#56) said. And Aenveigh (#57).

bjnetzone said :

Top of the scum-sucking list is pay parking at hospitals.

http://www.reinventingparking.org/search/label/hospitals

Actually it’s useful to charge for parking at hospitals. I’m not saying there shouldn’t be exemptions, but in general, why should it be free to park there? They are high-value destinations, often located in or near busy commercial centres. Free parking would therefore be great for commuters. But where do the patients park then? Build a multi-deck carpark for tens of millions? It costs a lot of money to provide free parking!! But who pays for that cost – taxpayers, the hospital – and how then do you pay for actual health care if you’ve spent that money on housing cars instead of caring for people?

I’m against monopoly pricing of hospital carparks (as they’re often run by the hospital, there’s no competition) but equally a fair price for visitors, commuters choosing to use it (pay more) etc. Say free for 2 hours, sliding scale after that. Outpatients could validate for 4 hours free, same as you see at commercial centres – you get longer free if you’re a proven ‘customer’ rather than just taking advantage. In Canberra the PT is ok, not great so bump that up a bit, and in most other cities there’s pretty great PT to most hospitals. Why travel there in a vehicle more likely to cause you to become a patient if you can take the bus/train instead? ; )

screaming banshee10:10 pm 15 Oct 10

Erg0 said :

Providing visitors to the triangle with free parking would be considered a service, surely? This sounds a bit like the “I won’t use a women’s hospital, they should get rid of it and reduce my taxes instead” argument. Just because the service isn’t being provided to you that doesn’t make it a waste of government money.

Absolutely providing free parking to visitors would be considered a service, the problem is the visitor parking is being taken up by workers because there is insufficient control over ensuring that visitor parking is being used by visitors.

As for why you should be able to park for free in the triangle, all I’ve heard is, nowhere to post a letter, nowhere to buy lunch, nowhere to pay bills.

Posting a letter:
Take a walk around you local streets, a post box wont be that far away. If you’re a lazy shite then drive past it on your way home.

Lunch:
Please, most offices contain or have a small cafe nearby, if not then it will more than likely be serviced by a mobile cafe. Then of course you always have the option of packing a lunch.

Paying bills:
You’re shitting me right! Bpay, or if you’re that old fashioned mail a cheque…see ‘Posting a letter’

Jethro said :

Teachers should also have to pay for their parking. The perks those bludgers get are just getting ridiculous.

and cyclists.

KB said: “3 kids, wife at home (at the moment), daycare close to home, soon to be school close to home, 30km into the city, bus & cycle. Full time work, usually arrive at 8 & finish around 4:30-5pm and I get a couple of hours of riding in a day.

Yes we relied on the car when she was at work (as everybody does) but I dont winge about the cost. If we didnt have a car, we would be organised differently.

I saw your point but all I could see was winging & moaning about how you have not organised your life better.

Why would you have your kids in more than one school? If they are at high school then they can catch the bus. There is a bus stop outside my house & I see people dropping their kids off in their cars, what are the kids legs painted on?

The guy on the bike, he is riding up Adelaide ave almost every day, you put two & two together.”

KB. We’re as organised as we can be. 6 kids (5 at home, 4 students, 1 working – 1 primary, 2 secondary, 1 tertiary). Different schools because different levels. You’d be amazed at how many times teenage girls miss their bus to school (or how many times the bus just doesn’t turn up). It’s hair dryer heaven :). Their disorganisation can throw our somewhat tenuous organisation out the window in an instant, but they’re learning. Wife and I both work full-time. Don’t do morning daycare for the youngest because of the cost. No, their legs are not painted on, but I’m sure that walking to the bus stop will “make their hair all frizzy” (we just cannot have a bad hair day). We don’t have a bus stop outside our house. I am 30 minutes from work (in Barton, which is why I posted on this subject). None of this warrants whinging, as this is the life that we set up for ourselves, and, apart from the teenage-girl-tantrums on a near-daily basis, it’s a great life.

What I have a problem with is the added potential cost of working in the PT with the addition of pay parking. Yeah, I could go for another job, but I like the one I have. I shouldn’t have to change jobs because the ACT Government (and anyone else who collects from pay parking) are a bunch of money-hungry greed-mongers. My point (which was completely ignored by the trolls), was that anyone who drives to work (and I mean anyone, public/private/Canberra or elsewhere) shouldn’t have the added cost of paying to park.

Now, trolls, before you blow a gasket again because you pay for parking and think that everyone who doesn’t, should, I am saying that because I don’t pay for parking at work (right now), neither should you (ie. trying to make your life less expensive – shame some people can’t comprehend the concept).

BTW – while parking in the PT, my car has been broken into, twice, in six months. Nice bastards. I am hanging to pay $8 so some druggo loser can break into my car again. If I wanted to fork out for derro-breakage, I’d park in Civic.

I sometimes wonder at what point in time we (collectively) accepted pay parking at shops, on the street, parking lots, airports, hospitals, and now cemeteries, without saying or doing anything. Are we so used to being downtrodden, that we just say “Yeah, $70 for 4 hours of parking in Sydney CBD, hell yes, I’ll pay”; “$30 a day at the Belconnen clusterf***, not a problem. While I am here, just take my wallet and beat the crap out of me, I already feel like I’ve been mugged…”; “$40 per week to park in the middle of offices, but nowhere around where I can post a letter, buy lunch or pay my bills without jumping in a car at lunchtime, take me to town and get me drunk – what a bargain!”… Next the Government will charge us to park in our driveways at home, we we’ll just bend over and take it up the back passage.

Note to self: I really shouldn’t reply to bumfuzzled trolls (not referring to you KB).

The guy riding up Adelaide Avenue, my two + two = a guy risking the life and limb of him and his kid by riding up Adelaide Avenue on a bike. Seriously, I like to ride, but I like life too much to do that. (Hehe, don’t get me started on Canberra drivers)… I’d call DoCS after seeing that. Please tell me they’re helmeted?

P.S. Isn’t RiotACT Canberran for “whinge”? Or is it Canberran for “I am a small-minded loser with no brain and small-man-syndrome *wink*, so I’ll jump on RiotACT and tell everyone that they’re misguided stupid simpletons because I can, and, look Mum, I can do it one-handed”?

bjnetzone said :

KB1971 said :

bjnetzone said :

troll-sniffer said :

The Great Bambino said :

But as I said before, no one should have to pay to park there car at their place of employment in Canberra.

So by your rather in-depth and well conceived line of reasoning, I can equally validly say “No Canberran should have to pay for lunch if they’ve gone to work for the day.”

No offence, but yours is a 1d1OT statement of the highest order.

Totally disagree with you troll-sniffer. Road users already pay for registration, taxes on fuel, taxes on vehicle maintenance, and, most pay income and other taxes. We pay enough already, I think, was Bambino’s point. The use of cars for most people is a necessity, especially if you work and have kids – eating lunch isn’t (have breakfast and dinner instead, if you must). No offence, but your reasoning is not in-depth, nor well-conceived, nor valid… Oh, and the word ‘idiot’ doesn’t contain numbers in the English language…

I work & have kids, work in the city & dont rely on my car so whats your point?

I regularly see a guy with is son in a child seat riding to work & I dare say his sons daycare on the way.

Congratulations. Do you drop your kids at school (without daycare), then catch a bus to the city? How far from the city are you? How many schools do you drop your kids off to before you go to work? Do you pick them up as well? What time do you get to work and leave? Are you full-time?

Easy to say when you work in the city. Just about every bus in Canberra goes there, it’s central, and it doesn’t take long to get there from anywhere in Canberra on a bus. Try not working in the city, take 3 buses from home to work, and another 3 from work to home, drop off and pick up kids from schools (note more than one) and work a full-time position. It’s difficult on public transport, is my point. Most would not need that explained to them.

So, you see a guy with his son in a child seat. Did you stop and ask if he was going to work, and if his kid’s childcare is on the way? If not, what’s your point?

3 kids, wife at home (at the moment), daycare close to home, soon to be school close to home, 30km into the city, bus & cycle. Full time work, usually arrive at 8 & finish around 4:30-5pm and I get a couple of hours of riding in a day.

Yes we relied on the car when she was at work (as everybody does) but I dont winge about the cost. If we didnt have a car, we would be organised differently.

I saw your point but all I could see was winging & moaning about how you have not organised your life better.

Why would you have your kids in more than one school? If they are at high school then they can catch the bus. There is a bus stop outside my house & I see people dropping their kids off in their cars, what are the kids legs painted on?

The guy on the bike, he is riding up Adelaide ave almost every day, you put two & two together.

Woody Mann-Caruso said :

No Canberran should have to pay for parking at their place of employment.

So … why is it that Canberrans shouldn’t have to pay for parking at their place of work, but it’s okay in every other city on the face of the planet Earth?

Also, I bought my house because it was conveniently located near my place of employment, the government should pay my mortgage.

Jim. Good Lord, I hate repeating myself to cater for the lowest common denominator… But I’ll do it anyway… I said “I would extend it to ‘No-one who drives to work should have to pay for parking'”. References to Canberrans only was said by someone else, although I did agree, not because it’s Canberra, but because I think Industry and Government who make their workers pay to park their car are money-grabbing scum-sucking lowlifes. Top of the scum-sucking list is pay parking at hospitals.

I’m quite happy for you to pay to park your car, however. Good luck getting the Government to pay your mortgage.

screaming banshee said :

Ask yourself who owns the land you are parking on? If it is privately owned then that owner would expect a return.

One might wonder if that’s a reasonable expectation when said car park is located in an area where free parking is abundant.

If it is govt. owned and free then that is money that the govt. could be earning to provide more services or reduce taxes.

Providing visitors to the triangle with free parking would be considered a service, surely? This sounds a bit like the “I won’t use a women’s hospital, they should get rid of it and reduce my taxes instead” argument. Just because the service isn’t being provided to you that doesn’t make it a waste of government money.

I work in Barton, but I don’t park for free (my company leases parking). I would say that the biggest parking problem in the area is the inability to get a two hour spot after about 9am because of all the people using them to avoid paying for all-day parking.

Teachers should also have to pay for their parking. The perks those bludgers get are just getting ridiculous.

Jim Jones said :

troll-sniffer said :

Tsk tsk tsk the misguided simpletons are coming out in droves now aren’t they? Bjnetzone, there are so many populist half-truths and untruths in your response that it beggars belief. I’ll leave it there bacause anyone living a life with opinions about social responsibilities as misguided as yours will never benefit from rational discourse.

The stupid is strong in this one!

Is that the best you’ve got? I thought I saw “Agitator” under your name, genius…

screaming banshee7:40 pm 13 Oct 10

Jeez, I crossed it out didn’t I!

Ask yourself who owns the land you are parking on? If it is privately owned then that owner would expect a return. If it is govt. owned and free then that is money that the govt. could be earning to provide more services or reduce taxes.

As for where I and others work. The owner of the commercial property that I work at owns the carpark and it is provided to their tenants for staff and customers as part of the lease. That doesn’t mean that the parking is free, but annualised and incorporated into the lease.

Maybe they could redevelop their carpark into high density residential and relieve parking congestion by actually having people live close to their work?

KB1971 said :

bjnetzone said :

troll-sniffer said :

The Great Bambino said :

But as I said before, no one should have to pay to park there car at their place of employment in Canberra.

So by your rather in-depth and well conceived line of reasoning, I can equally validly say “No Canberran should have to pay for lunch if they’ve gone to work for the day.”

No offence, but yours is a 1d1OT statement of the highest order.

Totally disagree with you troll-sniffer. Road users already pay for registration, taxes on fuel, taxes on vehicle maintenance, and, most pay income and other taxes. We pay enough already, I think, was Bambino’s point. The use of cars for most people is a necessity, especially if you work and have kids – eating lunch isn’t (have breakfast and dinner instead, if you must). No offence, but your reasoning is not in-depth, nor well-conceived, nor valid… Oh, and the word ‘idiot’ doesn’t contain numbers in the English language…

I work & have kids, work in the city & dont rely on my car so whats your point?

I regularly see a guy with is son in a child seat riding to work & I dare say his sons daycare on the way.

Congratulations. Do you drop your kids at school (without daycare), then catch a bus to the city? How far from the city are you? How many schools do you drop your kids off to before you go to work? Do you pick them up as well? What time do you get to work and leave? Are you full-time?

Easy to say when you work in the city. Just about every bus in Canberra goes there, it’s central, and it doesn’t take long to get there from anywhere in Canberra on a bus. Try not working in the city, take 3 buses from home to work, and another 3 from work to home, drop off and pick up kids from schools (note more than one) and work a full-time position. It’s difficult on public transport, is my point. Most would not need that explained to them.

So, you see a guy with his son in a child seat. Did you stop and ask if he was going to work, and if his kid’s childcare is on the way? If not, what’s your point?

troll-sniffer said :

bjnetzone said :

troll-sniffer said :

The Great Bambino said :

But as I said before, no one should have to pay to park there car at their place of employment in Canberra.

So by your rather in-depth and well conceived line of reasoning, I can equally validly say “No Canberran should have to pay for lunch if they’ve gone to work for the day.”

No offence, but yours is a 1d1OT statement of the highest order.

Totally disagree with you troll-sniffer. Road users already pay for registration, taxes on fuel, taxes on vehicle maintenance, and, most pay income and other taxes. We pay enough already, I think, was Bambino’s point. The use of cars for most people is a necessity, especially if you work and have kids – eating lunch isn’t (have breakfast and dinner instead, if you must). No offence, but your reasoning is not in-depth, nor well-conceived, nor valid… Oh, and the word ‘idiot’ doesn’t contain numbers in the English language…

Tsk tsk tsk the misguided simpletons are coming out in droves now aren’t they? Bjnetzone, there are so many populist half-truths and untruths in your response that it beggars belief. I’ll leave it there bacause anyone living a life with opinions about social responsibilities as misguided as yours will never benefit from rational discourse.

Troll – Please, feel free to point out the half-truths/untruths… I suspect that you didn’t because you’re struggling with the concept. I’m still waiting for your rational discourse. If your example of social responsibility is to call people “1d1OTs”, then I am so glad that my idea of social responsibility is different from yours. Anyone’d think that you’re old enough to know better.

la mente torbida said :

Pay for parking? … Cry me a river

’cause now you say you’re sorry, for being so untrue (when you said there’d never be pay parking in the triangle…)

I take the bus and occasionally drive in to work in the Triangle. I’d be prepared to pay for parking but reckon there should be a decent trade-off in terms of some additional services here – especially a post office.

la mente torbida said :

Pay for parking? … Cry me a river

Apparently it’s a human rights issue now.

la mente torbida12:39 pm 13 Oct 10

Pay for parking? … Cry me a river

screaming banshee said :

I look forward to the day pay parking is mandated in the triangle, if the increased cost or inconvenience is too much of a hassle perhaps you should be looking for a real another job.

I work in Barton and my job is as real as any other job.

Bigot.

I’m also quite happy to pay for parking here.

I’m still yet to read an argument of why there should be pay parking other than ‘everyone else has to so you should to’.

How about you flip it the other way ‘they don’t have to pay for parking so why should we’.

bjnetzone said :

troll-sniffer said :

The Great Bambino said :

But as I said before, no one should have to pay to park there car at their place of employment in Canberra.

So by your rather in-depth and well conceived line of reasoning, I can equally validly say “No Canberran should have to pay for lunch if they’ve gone to work for the day.”

No offence, but yours is a 1d1OT statement of the highest order.

Totally disagree with you troll-sniffer. Road users already pay for registration, taxes on fuel, taxes on vehicle maintenance, and, most pay income and other taxes. We pay enough already, I think, was Bambino’s point. The use of cars for most people is a necessity, especially if you work and have kids – eating lunch isn’t (have breakfast and dinner instead, if you must). No offence, but your reasoning is not in-depth, nor well-conceived, nor valid… Oh, and the word ‘idiot’ doesn’t contain numbers in the English language…

I work & have kids, work in the city & dont rely on my car so whats your point?

I regularly see a guy with is son in a child seat riding to work & I dare say his sons daycare on the way.

troll-sniffer said :

Tsk tsk tsk the misguided simpletons are coming out in droves now aren’t they? Bjnetzone, there are so many populist half-truths and untruths in your response that it beggars belief. I’ll leave it there bacause anyone living a life with opinions about social responsibilities as misguided as yours will never benefit from rational discourse.

The stupid is strong in this one!

bjnetzone said :

Woody Mann-Caruso said :

No Canberran should have to pay for parking at their place of employment.

Why stop at parking? We taxpayers should have to foot the bill for your registration and insurance as well! If your car is a necessity, surely those costs are just as important as parking.

F*ck it – we’ll pay for fuel too. It’s not fair the affordable suburbs are so far away from the expensive office real estate. Why should you have to pay to get from one to the other? Make the government pay!

Oh – except the government gets its money from taxes, which come from us, so we end up paying anyway. Moron.

Woody – you should take a look at who you’re calling a moron pal. ‘No Canberran should have to pay for parking at their place of employment’… That includes you (if you’re Canberran), and even if you’re not, it should still apply. I agree with Bambino. I would extend it to ‘No-one who drives to work should have to pay for parking’. Before you go calling people morons, you might want to ask if the ‘moron’ is a taxpayer and a full-fare paying road-user, just like you?

So … why is it that Canberrans shouldn’t have to pay for parking at their place of work, but it’s okay in every other city on the face of the planet Earth?

Also, I bought my house because it was conveniently located near my place of employment, the government should pay my mortgage.

JC said :

Actually Canberra wasn’t built around cars, it was built around our town centres or more to the point and a missguided beleif that we would all live and work within our own town centre and only venture out on the odd occasion. The road network and subsiquently the bus network then stems around that idea hence why it is very structured and takes time to get around the place.

In addition to this, the husband would be the only one who worked, and if he did need to drive, he would take the families only car to get there. The wife would take the kids to school (in the same suburb – till they are old enough to walk themselves) then go home, do some house work, and maybe walk to the local shop to do the weeks shopping.

I-filed said :

Well the AFP appear to be being well looked after by their ACT Police pals. The parking lot between the National Gallery and the AFP (off Kings Ave) has always had “park in bays only” signs, and before the AFP moved in, ALL cars parked outside the bays were booked and that carpark was patrolled stringently and was a nice little earner. guess what? Chockers with big boofy AFP 4WD and V8 type cars parked all over outside the bays these days – I counted 22 of them today – NONE of which had parking tickets. I have not seen a parking ticket in that carpark in the few weeks since the AFP moved in.

I agree. Walking through there yesterday from the bus, I managed to nearly get knocked down by one 4WD trying to do an illegal park on one of the tree planting areas. Couldn’t see me because I was screened off by another illegally parked 4WD. ACT Govt lawsuits just waiting to happen there.

troll-sniffer9:22 am 13 Oct 10

bjnetzone said :

troll-sniffer said :

The Great Bambino said :

But as I said before, no one should have to pay to park there car at their place of employment in Canberra.

So by your rather in-depth and well conceived line of reasoning, I can equally validly say “No Canberran should have to pay for lunch if they’ve gone to work for the day.”

No offence, but yours is a 1d1OT statement of the highest order.

Totally disagree with you troll-sniffer. Road users already pay for registration, taxes on fuel, taxes on vehicle maintenance, and, most pay income and other taxes. We pay enough already, I think, was Bambino’s point. The use of cars for most people is a necessity, especially if you work and have kids – eating lunch isn’t (have breakfast and dinner instead, if you must). No offence, but your reasoning is not in-depth, nor well-conceived, nor valid… Oh, and the word ‘idiot’ doesn’t contain numbers in the English language…

Tsk tsk tsk the misguided simpletons are coming out in droves now aren’t they? Bjnetzone, there are so many populist half-truths and untruths in your response that it beggars belief. I’ll leave it there bacause anyone living a life with opinions about social responsibilities as misguided as yours will never benefit from rational discourse.

georgesgenitals9:04 am 13 Oct 10

If an incentive (eg paid parking) is going to be provided, be prepared for some interesting outcomes.

Deref said :

Like it or not, Canberra was designed around private cars and no amount of social engineering will change that simple fact. Even if public transport were free (read “paid for by higher rates and taxes”) there’s no way that most people will trade two hours of their time each day for either the warm feeling or the completely illusory saving of a few bucks. Unless and until Canberra looks like Sydney or Melbourne (the gods forbid) public transport will be an inefficient and expensive luxury. These idiotic calls for light rail should be treated with the contempt they deserve until the Magical Sky Fairy drops billions of dollars into the Territory’s coffers.

Actually Canberra wasn’t built around cars, it was built around our town centres or more to the point and a missguided beleif that we would all live and work within our own town centre and only venture out on the odd occasion. The road network and subsiquently the bus network then stems around that idea hence why it is very structured and takes time to get around the place.

The Great Bambino said :

I was hoping for the jetpacks, but I digress.

If we had lightrail travelling the major arteries which funnily enough were designed to one day host a rail system between sattelite city centres (E.g. Northbourne, Tuggers Parkway, Belconnen Way, Ginninderra Drive, Adelaide Ave etc) with the assistance of a better bus system to get you to these centres, a trip from say Gungahlin to Woden would easily be achieved in under an hour in peak hour. And if given prioity at intersections and not tied up in peak hour jams could be quicker. Hell I love my car but given a decent choice would definately leave it at home.

One day it would be nice to have a symbiotic transport nirvana like those Victorians that just seems to work. But there’s more short term money in pay parking, speed camera’s and botched bridge construction…

A jetpack would be the only way to make it quicker. As much as I personally love the idea of light rail the bottom line is it WON’T make the trip any quicker. What you describe as the advantages of lightrail already apply to buses today, or could be applied with some minor changes to the arterial road network. The reason buses are slow is because they must meander through the suburbs picking up passengers. Additionally for those that work outside the major centres they generally need to change buses to get where they are going, thus slowing them down more.

This won’t change with a light rail system, in fact for many it may make it slower as they will need to double change when presently they can single change. For example take someone coming from Fraser working in Russell. Presently they would catch a 313 and change in Civic, but with light rail they would more than likley need to firstly change in Belconnen and then Civic. But alas even that would be hard as there is now no real interchange in Belconnen. Anyway each change adds time to the journey. So using my example above we have 30 minutes from Fraser to Belconnen (picking up a full load of passengers), 5 minute interchange in Belconnen, 15 minutes to Civic (more like 20 though), another 5 change and 15 to Russell. So 1:15 in total of which only 20 minutes can be directly attributed to light rail.

As for your Victorian Nirvana, suggest you go and live there before calling it that. Their tram system which is what they have, save for parts of the 96 and 109 routes, is operated no differently to an inner city bus system. Ie it is slow just like our buses.

They said:

Morris Property Group director Louise Morris attributed the small number of people using the car park to the availability of free parking elsewhere.

Couldn’t be the eight bucks a day they want? Morris wouldn’t be the victim of a bit of market reality or forces?

Try dropping the price. Say, four bucks a day. I would be sure that you would more than double the number of cars, which I think is a net gain, but I could be wrong.

On the subject of “free parking eleswhere”, that too, is a finite resource and well stretched. Seems that lots of folk are happy to go the russian roulette of the revenue protectors and 2 Hr parking. The occasional parking fine, more than beats the $80 per fortnight going into the Morris coffers. A big thanks goes to all the players for making it shirt miserable for those visiting Barton to deliver your lunch, fix your photocopier or attend a meeting….. Dirty stinking smokers rule! As I tarnish them with the motive to park in 2 hour spaces, and then have the opportunity every twenty minutes or so to check for tyre marking.

It’s a cruel world.

troll-sniffer said :

The Great Bambino said :

But as I said before, no one should have to pay to park there car at their place of employment in Canberra.

So by your rather in-depth and well conceived line of reasoning, I can equally validly say “No Canberran should have to pay for lunch if they’ve gone to work for the day.”

No offence, but yours is a 1d1OT statement of the highest order.

Totally disagree with you troll-sniffer. Road users already pay for registration, taxes on fuel, taxes on vehicle maintenance, and, most pay income and other taxes. We pay enough already, I think, was Bambino’s point. The use of cars for most people is a necessity, especially if you work and have kids – eating lunch isn’t (have breakfast and dinner instead, if you must). No offence, but your reasoning is not in-depth, nor well-conceived, nor valid… Oh, and the word ‘idiot’ doesn’t contain numbers in the English language…

screaming banshee said :

I look forward to the day pay parking is mandated in the triangle, if the increased cost or inconvenience is too much of a hassle perhaps you should be looking for a real another job.

Banshee, are you assuming that all people who park at Barton are Public Servants? If so, you might want to take a trip out there and take another look. I don’t mind if you want to pay an extra $80 per fortnight, just to park your car at your workplace (if you have one). Let’s see how you like it then. And if you already pay to park at work, why would you wish that crap upon someone else?

Woody Mann-Caruso said :

No Canberran should have to pay for parking at their place of employment.

Why stop at parking? We taxpayers should have to foot the bill for your registration and insurance as well! If your car is a necessity, surely those costs are just as important as parking.

F*ck it – we’ll pay for fuel too. It’s not fair the affordable suburbs are so far away from the expensive office real estate. Why should you have to pay to get from one to the other? Make the government pay!

Oh – except the government gets its money from taxes, which come from us, so we end up paying anyway. Moron.

Woody – you should take a look at who you’re calling a moron pal. ‘No Canberran should have to pay for parking at their place of employment’… That includes you (if you’re Canberran), and even if you’re not, it should still apply. I agree with Bambino. I would extend it to ‘No-one who drives to work should have to pay for parking’. Before you go calling people morons, you might want to ask if the ‘moron’ is a taxpayer and a full-fare paying road-user, just like you?

screaming banshee8:55 pm 12 Oct 10

I look forward to the day pay parking is mandated in the triangle, if the increased cost or inconvenience is too much of a hassle perhaps you should be looking for a real another job.

Woody Mann-Caruso8:50 pm 12 Oct 10

No Canberran should have to pay for parking at their place of employment.

Why stop at parking? We taxpayers should have to foot the bill for your registration and insurance as well! If your car is a necessity, surely those costs are just as important as parking.

F*ck it – we’ll pay for fuel too. It’s not fair the affordable suburbs are so far away from the expensive office real estate. Why should you have to pay to get from one to the other? Make the government pay!

Oh – except the government gets its money from taxes, which come from us, so we end up paying anyway. Moron.

If it was Woden or Tuggeranong (and prob Belco too), the surrounding area would be full of 2hr parking signs.

Devil_n_Disquiz said :

Must be a hugely overpriced car park. Even AFP employees are parking in No Parking zones on Blackall St to avoid using this new carpark.

doesn’t even seem to make a difference if you call ACT parking to come and book them, they wander along the street, maybe book someone in the loading zone near tourism house and leave the cars down near kings ave alone

Well the AFP appear to be being well looked after by their ACT Police pals. The parking lot between the National Gallery and the AFP (off Kings Ave) has always had “park in bays only” signs, and before the AFP moved in, ALL cars parked outside the bays were booked and that carpark was patrolled stringently and was a nice little earner. guess what? Chockers with big boofy AFP 4WD and V8 type cars parked all over outside the bays these days – I counted 22 of them today – NONE of which had parking tickets. I have not seen a parking ticket in that carpark in the few weeks since the AFP moved in.

Devil_n_Disquiz7:28 pm 12 Oct 10

Must be a hugely overpriced car park. Even AFP employees are parking in No Parking zones on Blackall St to avoid using this new carpark.

The Great Bambino said :

No Canberran should have to pay for parking at their place of employment.

Thankfully this is the situation in Gungahlin. Thank you Alexander Bunyip.

The Great Bambino7:23 pm 12 Oct 10

troll-sniffer said :

The Great Bambino said :

But as I said before, no one should have to pay to park there car at their place of employment in Canberra.

So by your rather in-depth and well conceived line of reasoning, I can equally validly say “No Canberran should have to pay for lunch if they’ve gone to work for the day.”

No offence, but yours is a 1d1OT statement of the highest order.

What ever floats your boat. I’ll stick with parking. Now sniff elsewhere. No Offence. 🙂

troll-sniffer6:10 pm 12 Oct 10

The Great Bambino said :

But as I said before, no one should have to pay to park there car at their place of employment in Canberra.

So by your rather in-depth and well conceived line of reasoning, I can equally validly say “No Canberran should have to pay for lunch if they’ve gone to work for the day.”

No offence, but yours is a 1d1OT statement of the highest order.

The Great Bambino said :

No Canberran should have to pay for parking at their place of employment.
In Canberra it is not a priviledge it is a necessity, whether it be public servantor private enteprise.

Corbell stating that its a means to get people to utilise our farsical public transport system is a friggin joke.

I for one refuse to sit in a bus for an hour and a half when I can get myself there in 30 minutes.

Once the transport system can get me to my place of employments even remotely close to those times I may give them a look in. But at the moment the only way that will happen is via a light rail network or government funded jetpacks….

But as I said before, no one should have to pay to park there car at their place of employment in Canberra.

+1

Like it or not, Canberra was designed around private cars and no amount of social engineering will change that simple fact. Even if public transport were free (read “paid for by higher rates and taxes”) there’s no way that most people will trade two hours of their time each day for either the warm feeling or the completely illusory saving of a few bucks. Unless and until Canberra looks like Sydney or Melbourne (the gods forbid) public transport will be an inefficient and expensive luxury. These idiotic calls for light rail should be treated with the contempt they deserve until the Magical Sky Fairy drops billions of dollars into the Territory’s coffers.

The Great Bambino5:50 pm 12 Oct 10

JC said :

The Great Bambino said :

No Canberran should have to pay for parking at their place of employment.
In Canberra it is not a priviledge it is a necessity, whether it be public servantor private enteprise.

Corbell stating that its a means to get people to utilise our farsical public transport system is a friggin joke.

I for one refuse to sit in a bus for an hour and a half when I can get myself there in 30 minutes.

Once the transport system can get me to my place of employments even remotely close to those times I may give them a look in. But at the moment the only way that will happen is via a light rail network or government funded jetpacks….

But as I said before, no one should have to pay to park there car at their place of employment in Canberra.

How do you think as light rail network will make your journey any quicker?

I was hoping for the jetpacks, but I digress.

If we had lightrail travelling the major arteries which funnily enough were designed to one day host a rail system between sattelite city centres (E.g. Northbourne, Tuggers Parkway, Belconnen Way, Ginninderra Drive, Adelaide Ave etc) with the assistance of a better bus system to get you to these centres, a trip from say Gungahlin to Woden would easily be achieved in under an hour in peak hour. And if given prioity at intersections and not tied up in peak hour jams could be quicker. Hell I love my car but given a decent choice would definately leave it at home.

One day it would be nice to have a symbiotic transport nirvana like those Victorians that just seems to work. But there’s more short term money in pay parking, speed camera’s and botched bridge construction…

The Great Bambino said :

No Canberran should have to pay for parking at their place of employment.
In Canberra it is not a priviledge it is a necessity, whether it be public servantor private enteprise.

Corbell stating that its a means to get people to utilise our farsical public transport system is a friggin joke.

I for one refuse to sit in a bus for an hour and a half when I can get myself there in 30 minutes.

Once the transport system can get me to my place of employments even remotely close to those times I may give them a look in. But at the moment the only way that will happen is via a light rail network or government funded jetpacks….

But as I said before, no one should have to pay to park there car at their place of employment in Canberra.

How do you think as light rail network will make your journey any quicker?

Wow, $8 – it’s cheap compared to London Cct where it’s a rort at $11 a day!!

Heck, make a public transport system that works!! The benefits to the economy would be staggering (although maybe not to the corporate pin heads who construct car parks – how will they cope).

Upgrade the bus fleet so everyone can ride on it (good luck getting a pram onto those old soviet hangovers) and expand services outside of the Civic, Woden, Belco, Tuggers centres. Improve connection services – if they exist? And weekend services .. please, no one likes to stay at home on a Sunday, so how about scheduling more than 1 bus every hour between 11 and 2pm.

Unlike mega cities, Canberra has a population where a well functioning and well managed bus system could actually be impressive (as opposed to Brisbane, where the bus routes are pretty good and frequent and travel times can be speedy along the bus ways.. but good luck getting a seat; it’s elbow room only, anytime after 7am).

The Great Bambino4:19 pm 12 Oct 10

No Canberran should have to pay for parking at their place of employment.
In Canberra it is not a priviledge it is a necessity, whether it be public servantor private enteprise.

Corbell stating that its a means to get people to utilise our farsical public transport system is a friggin joke.

I for one refuse to sit in a bus for an hour and a half when I can get myself there in 30 minutes.

Once the transport system can get me to my place of employments even remotely close to those times I may give them a look in. But at the moment the only way that will happen is via a light rail network or government funded jetpacks….

But as I said before, no one should have to pay to park there car at their place of employment in Canberra.

Gerry-Built said :

I wonder …is it secure parking?

Yap, you wont get your celica stolen from there……

Chaz said :

why isn’t the gov providing more parking? we’re paying enough in rego to cover it.
we need to stop having private parks popping up. parking should be free

Or, we can make parking very expensive, so people don’t drive. At least the roads will be quiet.

Amanda Hugankis3:12 pm 12 Oct 10

Well some of the footpaths are shocking, making walking in ridiculous heels to show off designer dresses to the workers … oh. You said RUNAWAY. I thought you said … oh never mind.

why isn’t the gov providing more parking? we’re paying enough in rego to cover it.
we need to stop having private parks popping up. parking should be free

They’re probably hoping that the previously discussed FBT implications will cause free parking in the area to dry up in the medium term. Plus they’re making $700+ a day more from that car park than they were before.

troll-sniffer2:07 pm 12 Oct 10

I guess it was factored into their business plan, for I doubt the site is to remain a carpark for very long. One might imagine that with the length of time it takes to get design, approval and for work to start on a serious redevelopment of such a site, a savvy operator would seek to harvest a cashflow against the rates and other expenses of keeping a block vacant. After fairly minimal expenses every parking dollar is a dollar towards those expenses, no matter how few there are.

The above para is pure conjecture, if anyone KNOWS anything more substantial, I’d be happy to be proved wrong (for the 16th time in my 50 odd years).

“Morris Property Group director Louise Morris attributed the small number of people using the car park to the availability of free parking elsewhere.”

How did they miss that when doing their business plan?

I hear from friends when they started to build this carpark – but how did it come about? What rules or process changed to all of a sudden introduce a single paid parking lot in the parl triangle?

Growling Ferret1:22 pm 12 Oct 10

The Canberra Times, now only a month behind the hot topics on The Riot Act

I wonder …is it secure parking?

Daily Digest

Want the best Canberra news delivered daily? Every day we package the most popular Riotact stories and send them straight to your inbox. Sign-up now for trusted local news that will never be behind a paywall.

By submitting your email address you are agreeing to Region Group's terms and conditions and privacy policy.