4 May 2007

Big cash from a smallish drug bust

| johnboy
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The ABC has a story on a drug bust in Tuggeranong which saw a smallish haul of drugs: 400 ecstasy tablets, 85 grams of the drug ice (now reads three grams, that was a cut and paste from the original), three kilograms of cannabis.

So certainly a diversified business and probably supplying smaller dealers. But what kind of money can you get for a bundle of drugs that you could pack in a suitcase and carry away?

Well the police also found $400,000 (now reads as $40k, I may have erred but I suspect an edit has been made).

We’re all in the wrong line of business (well most of us are anyway).

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Absent Diane11:37 am 09 May 07

the negative effects of drugs eg crime are due to the illegality of the drug.. the health affects can be attributed lack of control/standardisation.

Standardise and control and essentially what you have is antidepression drugs.

I think the way society is going at the moment, I can forsee everyone within the next 100 years being reliant on drugs in order to maintain a happy life style.

The price per gram is lot more then Gold and its what makes it so lucrative to sell.

All these drugs were perfectly legal a century or so ago and in some cases a lot less then that. And we didn’t have hords of the population off their face. Also as I said before in Amsterdam some of these drugs are legal and society continues on there ok.

shauno, you’re kidding right? The price of a hit of heroin/ice is about the same as an average case of beer. Certainly not more than the price of gold.
I still don’t see how legalising it would solve anything. If it makes it cheaper, then the user will be able to afford more – don’t kid yourself that the user will be thinking ‘oh good, I’m saving money now it’s cheaper’.
And people who might otherwise not be able to afford it, will all of a sudden be able to. I can only see a lot more people off their faces more of the time walking the streets.
As for alcohol, sure it’s legal, but do we want hard drugs to end up the same as alcohol in society?

Dude Ranch just about every example you used in that rant of yours is purely the result of the illegality and high cost of drugs on the black market.

And yes it is as you say “supply and demand” supply being black market at extremely high prices.

All of these drugs cost more then the price of Gold with the exception of Marijuana which is about 2/3 the price of Gold and alot are above the price of Platinum. There is only one group of people benefiting from this and thats the criminals selling these drugs.

For someone who doesn’t like personal attacks on themselves, you certainly like dishing them out eh johnboy? Perhaps you have some prejudices yourself, or is that just not ever, ever, ever possible from the open minded, great thinker, guru, that is jb?

Or I could ask my merchant banker mates about their weekend habits.

Or the doctors I know who sort themselves out.

Or the fighter pilots, Prime Ministers and Presidents who’s amphetamine use is a matter of historical record.

But don’t let that get in the way of your pygmy brained prejudices.

Oh my, there are comments in this thread from morons who think, just because they have or do use drugs, gives them a wealth of experience. They obviously have no concept of the reality of drug use.
Go and ask the window washers on Northbourne Ave how their life is, and these are the dudes that are trying to pay for their habit not breaking into yours and my home.
Go and ask the girls working at Fyshwick what their number one motivation at work is.
Yeah it’s easy to say “Alcohol’s a drug too”. You don’t see people holding up a post office or doing tricks for $50 because they are hanging for that case of Melbourne Bitter.
Yes there are social issues with alcohol abuse, but I’d take a punch up in town on a Saturday night over someone holding a blood filled syringe to another’s throat while demanding their wallet any day.
I’m sick to death of the downright naïve comment “Target the seller not the user” It’s supply and demand fools.
The only reason why users aren’t targeted like sellers are is because of “Harm Reduction” Basically the ACT Government wants users to not fear being arrested when calling for help when they or a friend OD’s . (Did you get anything out of this statement…… drug use us harmful and wow! you can kill yourself from it)
Go and pop your pills, pull your cones and be proud. I hope for your sake it doesn’t turn into something else, but you’ve got to start somewhere hey?

Sorry, I didn’t think we were talking about alcohol or cigarettes. I’ve said nothing about them but the problems are certainly there too. That is not in dispute. However, is it your argument that because alcohol and cigarettes are legal, that drugs should be too? Or do you want alcohol and cigarettes declared illegal too?

I don’t think de-criminalizing drugs just to find out what would happen, as you say, is a good reason to do it. Just because something hasn’t been tried doesn’t necessarily make it a good idea to try it!

In answer to your question – yes I do drink. I can still pay the bills and buy a bottle scotch or a couple of long-necks a fortnight. However, if I were addicted to an illicit drug, I’d imagine my priorities would be elsewhere.

BTW Farq, what are ‘people like me’?

I would suggest that a junkie wasted on 10 times their normal supply might be just that little bit easier to catch than one who’s beginning to detox …

We already see massive ‘flow on effect’ in out community from alcohol abuse. Everything you described (financial hardship), all manner of criminal behavior (drunks are not stereotyped as thieves, but we associate drinking and violence!). Then there are the health problems caused by alcohol and cigarettes.

As long as the ‘war-on-drugs’ has a cease-fire on the drug users of Canberra, I’ll be happy. I’ve got no sympathy for dealers. The market compensates them for the increased risk they take.

I currently don’t know what would happen if drugs became de-criminalized, but as long as we have people like MRB supporting an (hypocritical?) abstinence only policy, we will never find out.

Do you drink? Can you still pays the bills and buy a bottle of scotch or a couple of long-necks a fortnight?

That’s my point. Regardless of the price of drugs, you can bet that an addict will spend most, if not all, of their money on the stuff. Therefore, they will still need to commit crimes for the next hit.
Go nuts on the stuff if it doesn’t affect anyone else, but I think you’ll find that is rarely the case.
Whether that translates into committing offences against others, or not being able to put petrol in the car or pay a bill – there will always be a flow on effect.

I suspect you’ll find most are already taking as much as they want.

Anyway what business is it of yours (or mine) how people get off?

If they hurt someone or deprive others of their property then hit them like a tonne of bricks.

Or they’ll buy ten times as much – I’d bet on that rather than them curbing their habit.

If the drugs are a tenth of the price (a reasonable guess on the current markup) then we can assume the junkies will only need to steal 1/10th of your stuff.

I’m not entirely convinced that legalising these drugs is going to stop the crime rate, or anything else that is currently associated with them for that matter.
If it was to happen, the person will still need money to purchase the now legal drugs – where would this money come from? And if the government supplies some of the money and/or drugs, what happens when the person wants more than their ration? I doubt a person wanting a hit is going to wait for their next allocation. The only thing that may happen is that drugs may become cheaper, but I still don’t see how this will be an improvement. It would for one result in an increase in use as the person can afford more. Everyone knows that the more you take, the less effect is has, so the more you need. So back at square one.
To solve the problem, the person really needs to be removed from a position that allows them to purchase/be supplied with the drug in the first place.

> justbands – Only weekend plans? You are obviously ignorant of the effect drugs have on a family let alone a community. Back into the dark closet for you.

Errr…well, no actually. I’m fully aware of what they can do. As johnboy says though..there’s use & there’s abuse. I reckon you’re the one in the dark closet.

West_Kambah_4eva8:49 am 07 May 07

400 ecstasy tablets, 3 grams of the drug ice three kilograms of cannabis = my average weekend.

No its obviously not the Govt’s fault that there are drugs addicts thats not what I said.

However the fact these people need to break into houses to steal things to sell so as to support their habit is a direct result of these drugs being on the black market at high prices. Which is a result of govt policy.

If anybody really thinks the current hard line approach to drugs is working you really are kidding yourselves. But your certainly towing the conservative politically correct line.

Yes it’s the Govt’s fault that there are drug addicts….PUH-lease!

Yep which is entirely the result of the govt policy keeping these drugs on the black market resulting in high prices and very large profits for the crime world.

Tell that to the folks that have their house broken into and posessions stolen by junkie scumbags who need money for a fix.

“Here is my final point. About drugs, about alcohol, about pornography and smoking and everything else. What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body – as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?” — Bill Hicks.

auntiesocial1:47 am 06 May 07

“this so called war on drugs has achieved absolutely nothing besides lining the pockets of criminals.”
“If we just decriminalize the lot and be done with it
Comment by shauno — 5 May, 2007 @ 10:47 am”

shauno, what if those that can “decriminalize the lot” are those that are having their pockets lined?

I wondered why the big push to get all the meth-amphetamines (sp?) off the streets in a year with record opium harvests (which will help finance a war).

The way this story is being reported by the end of the week it will be a bust of some bloke in possession of a couple of aspirin and a bus pass.

Nice piece of vindictive prejudice there DJ.

If I don’t like the colour you paint your walls can I call for you to be sterilised?

boomacat – it was a start and some interesting points come from it. I guess the general view is that if it is legal it can’t be bad for you. That used to be case with smokers and look where we are now. Maybe the worm will turn?

Special G… one step further… add something that will make the user/s sterile and I might come around to your way of thinking. Sure the harm minimization model is there but too many users started as people who said “I’ll never get hooked”. Zero tolerance and mandatory re-rehabilitation. Can’t say you are going to go clean and not turn up.

I agree with DJ’s comment on education being the key factor. I also don’t agree that our current stance on drugs is working.

Legalise all the drugs and then make getting them regulated.

Eg. You want heroin – fine – get it prescribed and injected by a health professional and have to participate in programs to stop/get off the addiction. Make the cost less and punt all the dealers out of the market.

Regulate the quality of the drugs, reducing side effects, dodgy cut materials and OD’s.

Reduced social cost for the addiction across the board. eg. Less property crime, muggings, shoplifting.

The Canberra Times reported the quantity of ice as 1 1/2grams. Sounds like someone has been dipping into the stash as the story progresses!

Ive spent many a weekend in Amsterdam in fact I’m flying there to catch up with mate for 6 nights on the 16th of this month. This is not to say I will or wont be smoking drugs there.

I have not seen any problems whatsoever with the legalization of Marijuana or as is also the case in Amsterdam drugs such as magic mushrooms and peyote. And there isn’t any increase in drug addicts due to the availability of these drugs compared to the rest of Europe.

There will always be people who have trouble with drugs such as alcohol,tobacco or illicit variety’s. But for the great majority of people this isn’t the case and its wrong to think that just because you legalize other drugs society will collapse or whatever people think. Let people look after and think for them selves. People still smoke tobacco even though they know its bad for them and so be it.

Its politically incorrect to advocate this but the facts speak for them selves prohibition just doesn’t work. I think eventually we may see a change but not until the current generation of politician’s is replaced with generation X and Y.

Yogie, i guarantee you that the day after prohibition is ended the major corporate interests will be cashing in and the regulatory regime that applies to alcohol and tobacco will scale.

You’ve still got illegal tobacco chop chop out there, and bootleg liquor for that matter (though rarer) but for most people it’s easier to deal with the big boys.

Seen plenty of really ugly alcoholics too.

There’s a difference between use and abuse and many, many people manage it, both of alcohol and other drugs.

Shauno, if we decriminalise all the drugs who is going to regulate the quality of the product they sell. Will be allowed to sue our local dealer if we have a bad reaction and end up have a stroke or heart attack because they didn’t cook them properly. Will they distribute product description pamphlets with every ‘e’ advising you of what the drug is and possible side effects. Then when all the amphetamine users start to having psychotic episodes because their brains are melting who’s fault will it be when they seriously injury or kill someone.

I realise alcohol and tobacco are extremely dangerous drugs but why add the list of problems by decriminalise the rest and allowing them to be abused in the same way.

Usually things that are bad for you are illegal for a reason, and yes it’s not fair to charge a person in possession of a drug for personal use. But you would be amazed the quantity of drugs some people try to say is ‘Personal Use’.

boomacat – your proof?
lateralis – spot on which is why I vote for the money to go to education.
justbands – Only weekend plans? You are obviously ignorant of the effect drugs have on a family let alone a community. Back into the dark closet for you.
Johnboy – “perhaps we should arrest people for what they do rather than what chemicals they enjoy”… ever seen a heroin addict hanging out? Or an ICE user skating along all happy at a million miles an hour then suddenly stop?

It’s a fluid market. All it’s really done is drive up the profits of the remaining suppliers for a week or so.

“just supposing that the offender can’t sell pills this weekend. Maybe a life or two is saved?”

A life or two is saved? BAHAHAHAHAHA! When was the last E/pill related death you heard about? Fact is, many people take these things all the time & despite what you may think…they LIVE! Hey, most often they even have a really good time. I’m not suggesting we all rush out to buy illegal drugs, but no lives have been saved here. Maybe a couple of weekend plans ruined, that’s about it though.

I fully agree with that comment JB this so called war on drugs has achieved absolutely nothing besides lining the pockets of criminals. And in the US anyway responsible for the majority of the US prison population.
In my opinion its just yet another example of the govt telling us how to live our lives.
If we just decriminalize the lot and be done with it I’m sure it might cause some social problems but no where near the problems and social harm that is caused by the current equivalent to Al Capone era prohibition.

Or perhaps we should arrest people for what they do rather than what chemicals they enjoy.

Make love not war OYM.

OpenYourMind9:23 am 05 May 07

New Scientist (Nov 2004) had an interesting article on the topic with the theme that getting high is part of human nature and that all cultures and almost all people use drugs of one sort or another. “It’s a natural part of consciousness to change one’s consciousness”. They went on to describe it as the 4th instict after “hunger, thirst and sex”. If you accept this proposition, then a ‘war’ on an instinct seems pretty silly.

If nothing else, it’s worth reading the article. A more recent article by New Scientist quotes a study where in terms of harm, alcochol was near the top of the list, and Ecstasy at the very bottom. Perhaps the ‘war’ should be changed to a war on alcohol.

DJ if they can’t get the gear from a regular supplier they will find someone else. Market forces dictate supply and demand.
We should be looking at why people take drugs and start from there.

More likely a life or two would be saved if you stopped people selling alcohol.

You’re more likely to die from a bad reaction to aspirin.

That was a cut and paste from the original story. There has been some editing without notation on that story.

Ruby Wednesday10:35 pm 04 May 07

The amount of 85 grams of ice is listed in the commentary above, but the story says:

… 400 ecstasy tablets, three grams of the drug ice, three kilograms of cannabis, and more than $40,000.

So where are the comments from the CT, Terry, Teddy and others now? Heaven forbid that a job well done might gain a favorable comment or even acknowledgment. Open both eyes folks… you might just see that the rubbish, speculation and and baseless slander you go on with is empty rhetoric.

$40k was reported…

Openyourmind… what a negative view on the world. Not sure how you can compare the Bush statement on Iraq with the ACT drug scene. I for one vote that the money goes into drug education and am thankful that an offender was caught, drugs seized and that those pills are not on the street – remember that nobody is holding down those kids and forcing them to take the pills…. just supposing that the offender can’t sell pills this weekend. Maybe a life or two is saved?

Uh uh, it quotes “more than $40,000”. $400k is more thank $40k 🙂

And the ABC story linked also quotes $40k.

I’m pretty sure the AFP officer on the radio said it was $40k in cash, and not $400k.

OpenYourMind5:17 pm 04 May 07

Yes, the war on drugs. Next thing we will hear it has been “mission accomplished” just like in Iraq.

Just supposing that each ecstasy tablet cost $100 (I’ve got no idea on prices) and ignoring the other drugs. The $400k cash haul could indicate that the accused had sold 4000 tablets. So the confiscation of 400 tablets really doesn’t represent much. And this guy is just one dealer. Obviously if he can make those sort of $$$ then there is a strong market and other opportunists will quickly move in to fill that gap.

“significant impact”?

Pfft.

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