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Bill O’Reilly uses the Member for Fraser’s research to beat up the gun nuts

By johnboy 19 December 2012 44

I don’t think anyone saw this coming.

On the rabidly right wing Fox News the strongly pro-gun Bill O’Reilly today was using research by Canberra’s own Member for Fraser Dr Andrew Leigh to bludgeon home the message that assault rifles in private hands is not in the public interest. (and it only took a huge pile of dead six year old children to get minds actually thinking)

If you’ve wondered why so much big money supports the otherwise nutty notion of private gun rights in the US Mark Ames has published as good a theory as any on NSFWcorp.com (available for the next 18 hours).

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Bill O’Reilly uses the Member for Fraser’s research to beat up the gun nuts
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IrishPete 9:26 am 31 Dec 12

460cixy said :

Because responsible folk enjoy target shooting and have done so for years with out issue but of course it only takes one bad apple to get the antis all in a tizz over it.

On a side note tho I see the news has stopped getting mileage out of the u.s tragedy and I can see exactly nothing being changed in there laws

There have been a few more than “one bad apple” – I cited two fairly recent, tragic and highly publicised incidents.

If the system doesn’t prevent a psychotic person or anyone else taking a handgun home, then the system is broken and needs to be fixed.

IP

IrishPete 9:22 am 31 Dec 12

LSWCHP said :

Regarding the Glock being a target pistol, it depends on the type of match you shoot. I used to own a Glock, it was a nice piece of machinery and I shot a lot of targets with it. I eventually sold it because I didn’t like the feel of the trigger, and purchased a different gun, which I shot in a match yesterday.

The idiot who got shot in Sydney was illegally carrying his firearm which is a profoundly stupid thing to do. If you point a gun at someone, particularly the cops, they may well point their guns back at you and shoot you. I don’t have much sympathy for him.

As for target shooting, that’s the primary reason I own firearms, and I would certainly miss it if I could no longer participate.

I think I was reasonably clear that target shooting was not my “target”, rather target shooting with pistols which have no purpose outside the firing range. Target shooting with a rifle is a skill which is transferrable to the community – shooting feral animals being the obvious one. There are legal and reasonable reasons for having a rifle or shotgun in the community – none that I can think of for a pistol, be it semi-automatic or revolver.

Presumably you do have some sympathy for the police who had to shoot Mr Elkass, for the people who witnessed the shooting, and for his family, and for all the other people directly and indirectly affected. All because you a few people want to get their kicks from shooting targets with a pistol. There are lots of things I might enjoy doing but I don’t because they are illegal because society has decided they be so.

In fact, it would probably be fun to play with RPGs – can we legalise that for me to do on a firing range if I promise never to take it home to deal with a dispute with my neighbours?

IP

LSWCHP 9:38 pm 30 Dec 12

IrishPete said :

Reviving an oldish thread here, because I’m surprised that no-one raised the issue of Mr Elkass http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/fatal-shooting-police-may-not-have-identified-themselves-inquest-20121203-2aq8k.html who had a legally owned, but illegally in his possession, Glock. I think that’s a semi-automatic pistol. I can’t see much reason for a private citizen to have access to one of those – it’s hardly a target pistol is it?

It would be better to have universal controls, rather than trying to target them on specific people. Handguns do seem to be the main problem, presumably because of ease of concealment. Apart from the sport of target shooting, which most of us wouldn’t miss if it disappeared, what possible reason can a memebr of the public have for legally possessing a handgun?

IP

Regarding the Glock being a target pistol, it depends on the type of match you shoot. I used to own a Glock, it was a nice piece of machinery and I shot a lot of targets with it. I eventually sold it because I didn’t like the feel of the trigger, and purchased a different gun, which I shot in a match yesterday.

The idiot who got shot in Sydney was illegally carrying his firearm which is a profoundly stupid thing to do. If you point a gun at someone, particularly the cops, they may well point their guns back at you and shoot you. I don’t have much sympathy for him.

As for target shooting, that’s the primary reason I own firearms, and I would certainly miss it if I could no longer participate.

460cixy 8:40 pm 30 Dec 12

IrishPete said :

Reviving an oldish thread here, because I’m surprised that no-one raised the issue of Mr Elkass http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/fatal-shooting-police-may-not-have-identified-themselves-inquest-20121203-2aq8k.html who had a legally owned, but illegally in his possession, Glock. I think that’s a semi-automatic pistol. I can’t see much reason for a private citizen to have access to one of those – it’s hardly a target pistol is it?

Also the older case of Ms Fernando http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/gun-death-triggers-battle-to-close-pistol-club-and-limit-access-to-weapons-20110121-19zzw.html who also illegally took a gun home from a club and killed her father with it. I can’t find much info on the type of pistol used.

People will argue that better criminal record checks and mental health checks would prevent these occurrences, but I beg to differ. A person can develop a mental illness at any time, especially in young adulthood. And I’m not sure that gun clubs should be given access to people’s health records. And as health records are state-based, if you move interstate you won’t be known to the system.

It would be better to have universal controls, rather than trying to target them on specific people. Handguns do seem to be the main problem, presumably because of ease of concealment. Apart from the sport of target shooting, which most of us wouldn’t miss if it disappeared, what possible reason can a memebr of the public have for legally possessing a handgun?

IP

Because responsible folk enjoy target shooting and have done so for years with out issue but of course it only takes one bad apple to get the antis all in a tizz over it. On a side note tho I see the news has stopped getting mileage out of the u.s tragedy and I can see exactly nothing being changed in there laws

IrishPete 3:28 pm 30 Dec 12

Reviving an oldish thread here, because I’m surprised that no-one raised the issue of Mr Elkass http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/fatal-shooting-police-may-not-have-identified-themselves-inquest-20121203-2aq8k.html who had a legally owned, but illegally in his possession, Glock. I think that’s a semi-automatic pistol. I can’t see much reason for a private citizen to have access to one of those – it’s hardly a target pistol is it?

Also the older case of Ms Fernando http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/gun-death-triggers-battle-to-close-pistol-club-and-limit-access-to-weapons-20110121-19zzw.html who also illegally took a gun home from a club and killed her father with it. I can’t find much info on the type of pistol used.

People will argue that better criminal record checks and mental health checks would prevent these occurrences, but I beg to differ. A person can develop a mental illness at any time, especially in young adulthood. And I’m not sure that gun clubs should be given access to people’s health records. And as health records are state-based, if you move interstate you won’t be known to the system.

It would be better to have universal controls, rather than trying to target them on specific people. Handguns do seem to be the main problem, presumably because of ease of concealment. Apart from the sport of target shooting, which most of us wouldn’t miss if it disappeared, what possible reason can a memebr of the public have for legally possessing a handgun?

IP

james270 8:27 am 21 Dec 12

Postalgeek said :

james270 said :

Postalgeek said :

james270 said :

If you think for one moment that Samantha Lee is anything other than anti-gun I would seriously question your soundness of mind and whether it is appropriate that you have a firearms licence as you claim:)

And if you think Alex Downer is evidence of Green/Lefties using these events to push their own barrow, I have to question yours

Of you could kindly point out where I referred to Alexander Downer as a lefty/green it would be much appreciated.

I asked for a sample of Green/Lefty barrow pushing and in response you posted a link that featured Alex Downer championing gun control along a gun control lobbyist. I was just going by what you posted. Apologies if I drew a different conclusion to the one you intended.

No worries. Have a good Christmas/Festivus/Other secular celebration:-)

james270 8:25 am 21 Dec 12

LSWCHP said :

I was wondering about that. Sweet, but well noisy. I prefer the Swede. 🙂

There are no flies on the Swede, suitable for everything from mice to moose:-)

Postalgeek 10:10 pm 20 Dec 12

james270 said :

Postalgeek said :

james270 said :

If you think for one moment that Samantha Lee is anything other than anti-gun I would seriously question your soundness of mind and whether it is appropriate that you have a firearms licence as you claim:)

And if you think Alex Downer is evidence of Green/Lefties using these events to push their own barrow, I have to question yours

Of you could kindly point out where I referred to Alexander Downer as a lefty/green it would be much appreciated.

I asked for a sample of Green/Lefty barrow pushing and in response you posted a link that featured Alex Downer championing gun control along a gun control lobbyist. I was just going by what you posted. Apologies if I drew a different conclusion to the one you intended.

LSWCHP 9:28 pm 20 Dec 12

james270 said :

Jim Jones said :

james270 said :

the anti-gun lobby

That’s pretty much told me all I need to know right there.

My personal stance on the matter has no bearing on what I posted Jim. A member asked for evidence of calls for gun control in Australia and I provided it.

And if you were as astute as you seem to think you are my username would have given you a pretty good indication on my thoughts on firearms.

I was wondering about that. Sweet, but well noisy. I prefer the Swede. 🙂

james270 7:29 pm 20 Dec 12

Postalgeek said :

james270 said :

If you think for one moment that Samantha Lee is anything other than anti-gun I would seriously question your soundness of mind and whether it is appropriate that you have a firearms licence as you claim:)

And if you think Alex Downer is evidence of Green/Lefties using these events to push their own barrow, I have to question yours

Of you could kindly point out where I referred to Alexander Downer as a lefty/green it would be much appreciated.

Deckard 7:16 pm 20 Dec 12

Postalgeek said :

james270 said :

If you think for one moment that Samantha Lee is anything other than anti-gun I would seriously question your soundness of mind and whether it is appropriate that you have a firearms licence as you claim:)

And if you think Alex Downer is evidence of Green/Lefties using these events to push their own barrow, I have to question yours

Not to mention that champion of the left, John Howard, who gave us stronger gun control all those years ago.

It’s going to be interesting if they do ban these assault weapons in the US. What will happen when the government tries to take them off the people who have been preparing for this very situation. They might end up having to pry them from their cold dead hands.

Jethro 6:54 pm 20 Dec 12

If you’ve wondered why so much big money supports the otherwise nutty notion of private gun rights in the US Mark Ames has published as good a theory as any on NSFWcorp.com

Thanks for that link JB. One of the better reads on the whole debate I’ve come across.

Deref 5:22 pm 20 Dec 12

LSWCHP said :

Thumper said :

liability said :

Andrew Leigh has been a rabid anti gunner for years, just google his name and all will be revealed.

He doesn’t have a whole lot of new stuff to offer, just tends to rehash other peoples work.

I see that some of the anti gun people are suggesting a gun buyback in America, like we had a few years ago. I would like to see the cost estimate on that one!

I have had some experience with military weapons. And believe me, assault rifles in private hands is not in the public interest.

Not at all.

Ever.

I’m what most Australians would call a loony gun nut. For what its worth, I’m an intelligent, tertiary educated professional with a career, a home in the suburbs, a wife and four kids. I’m an engineer, and instead of cars I focus my attention on firearms. They’re astounding pieces of precision machinery, and every weekend I use them to convert money into noise and poke holes in pieces of paper. That’s it. That’s all I do with them at them moment, although I’ve hunted in the past and I may do so again in the future.

Like Thumper, I have some experience with assault rifles and I agree with him that nobody in the community needs them. That was decided long ago.

On the other hand LegalNut suggests that banning all firearms is a no-brainer. I can understand why someone might feel this way at this time, but I very respectfully disagree. Like many of my friends, I’ve owned and used firearms for over 30 years without hurting anybody. This is not America, and the processes required for obtaining and using firearms are extremely onerous.

We don’t need further restrictions on firearm ownership in Australia. We probably do need better enforcement of existing laws.

No – that makes you an intelligent and responsible gun owner.

The loony gun nuts are the ones who horde every piece of artillery and ammunition they can get their hands on in order to protect themselves against their sworn enemy – the government. Fortunately we don’t have many of those here.

As for the insane mass murderers, they’re just insane mass murderers. The only thing you can do for them is to make it as hard as is humanly possible for them to get their hands on a gun.

Postalgeek 4:45 pm 20 Dec 12

james270 said :

If you think for one moment that Samantha Lee is anything other than anti-gun I would seriously question your soundness of mind and whether it is appropriate that you have a firearms licence as you claim:)

And if you think Alex Downer is evidence of Green/Lefties using these events to push their own barrow, I have to question yours

james270 4:20 pm 20 Dec 12

Postalgeek said :

james270 said :

Jim Jones said :

james270 said :

Postalgeek said :

460cixy said :

I have been waiting for this to appear on RA. Now I really can’t see why an event like this as sad as it is should have any effect on our own firearms laws here. Yet the greens and leftys keep using events like this to push there own barrow and our stupid media keep giving them the time of day.

I haven’t seen that, except for one piece today in the SMH about a shooter lobby committee hampering police proposals. Maybe I’m blind. Maybe you’re spinning bullshit. Point out some of it to give your comment a bit of context.

You mean something like this…

http://au.tv.yahoo.com/sunrise/video/-/watch/82750dcb-74e3-30d6-8299-104024da0ccf/call-to-ban-guns-in-us/

Sunrise … seriously … you’re linking to a Sunrise video?

I am not a fan of Sunrise at all, but if this is the medium the anti-gun lobby wishes to use to promote their cause then I am happy to point it out to people.

Just watch the last minute of the video if you cant, like me, bear to sit through the whole thing.

Maybe you should’ve watched the video then.

I see Alex Downer. Obviously a raving Green Leftie, oh wait….

I see a Gun Control lobbyist talking about possible restriction of semi-automatic pistols. Well, that’s just anti-gun all over it. Gun control and anti-gun obviously mean the same thing. I mean bolt-action rifles clearly fall into the semi-automatic pistol category.

Fark me. I’m a licensed shooter who regularly uses firearms on a farm, and I may not agree with all the gun control proposals, but I am amazed at the sloppy statements and hysterical shit coming from certain elements of the gun lobby. No wonder thinking people in the media don’t take them seriously.

BTW what Downer had to say about One Nation and the gun lobby was very interesting. Thanks for the link.

If you think for one moment that Samantha Lee is anything other than anti-gun I would seriously question your soundness of mind and whether it is appropriate that you have a firearms licence as you claim:)

james270 4:16 pm 20 Dec 12

Jim Jones said :

james270 said :

My personal stance on the matter has no bearing on what I posted Jim. A member asked for evidence of calls for gun control in Australia and I provided it.

There wasn’t a call for more gun control in Australia – it was a couple of people saying that the yanks should follow the Oz model. A Sunrise video with the ‘last minute’ statement being an off the cuff remark that “semi-automatic handguns have no place in society”. Hardly convincing evidence of a ‘lobby’ for mine.

james270 said :

And if you were as astute as you seem to think you are my username would have given you a pretty good indication on my thoughts on firearms.

I dunno, you some religious nut or something?

So the calls for Julia Gillard to ban handguns in Australia isnt a call for more gun control in Australia?

Postalgeek 4:03 pm 20 Dec 12

james270 said :

Jim Jones said :

james270 said :

Postalgeek said :

460cixy said :

I have been waiting for this to appear on RA. Now I really can’t see why an event like this as sad as it is should have any effect on our own firearms laws here. Yet the greens and leftys keep using events like this to push there own barrow and our stupid media keep giving them the time of day.

I haven’t seen that, except for one piece today in the SMH about a shooter lobby committee hampering police proposals. Maybe I’m blind. Maybe you’re spinning bullshit. Point out some of it to give your comment a bit of context.

You mean something like this…

http://au.tv.yahoo.com/sunrise/video/-/watch/82750dcb-74e3-30d6-8299-104024da0ccf/call-to-ban-guns-in-us/

Sunrise … seriously … you’re linking to a Sunrise video?

I am not a fan of Sunrise at all, but if this is the medium the anti-gun lobby wishes to use to promote their cause then I am happy to point it out to people.

Just watch the last minute of the video if you cant, like me, bear to sit through the whole thing.

Maybe you should’ve watched the video then.

I see Alex Downer. Obviously a raving Green Leftie, oh wait….

I see a Gun Control lobbyist talking about possible restriction of semi-automatic pistols. Well, that’s just anti-gun all over it. Gun control and anti-gun obviously mean the same thing. I mean bolt-action rifles clearly fall into the semi-automatic pistol category.

Fark me. I’m a licensed shooter who regularly uses firearms on a farm, and I may not agree with all the gun control proposals, but I am amazed at the sloppy statements and hysterical shit coming from certain elements of the gun lobby. No wonder thinking people in the media don’t take them seriously.

BTW what Downer had to say about One Nation and the gun lobby was very interesting. Thanks for the link.

Jim Jones 3:55 pm 20 Dec 12

james270 said :

My personal stance on the matter has no bearing on what I posted Jim. A member asked for evidence of calls for gun control in Australia and I provided it.

There wasn’t a call for more gun control in Australia – it was a couple of people saying that the yanks should follow the Oz model. A Sunrise video with the ‘last minute’ statement being an off the cuff remark that “semi-automatic handguns have no place in society”. Hardly convincing evidence of a ‘lobby’ for mine.

james270 said :

And if you were as astute as you seem to think you are my username would have given you a pretty good indication on my thoughts on firearms.

I dunno, you some religious nut or something?

Ben_Dover 3:52 pm 20 Dec 12

Jim Jones said :

Sunrise … seriously … you’re linking to a Sunrise video?

Surely that’s better than not linking to anything at all, not providing a refutation of the point, and just slagging off others views without actually contributing a damn thing to the debate, like someone here we could mention.

james270 3:43 pm 20 Dec 12

Jim Jones said :

james270 said :

the anti-gun lobby

That’s pretty much told me all I need to know right there.

My personal stance on the matter has no bearing on what I posted Jim. A member asked for evidence of calls for gun control in Australia and I provided it.

And if you were as astute as you seem to think you are my username would have given you a pretty good indication on my thoughts on firearms.

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