19 December 2012

Bill O'Reilly uses the Member for Fraser's research to beat up the gun nuts

| johnboy
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I don’t think anyone saw this coming.

On the rabidly right wing Fox News the strongly pro-gun Bill O’Reilly today was using research by Canberra’s own Member for Fraser Dr Andrew Leigh to bludgeon home the message that assault rifles in private hands is not in the public interest. (and it only took a huge pile of dead six year old children to get minds actually thinking)

If you’ve wondered why so much big money supports the otherwise nutty notion of private gun rights in the US Mark Ames has published as good a theory as any on NSFWcorp.com (available for the next 18 hours).

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460cixy said :

Because responsible folk enjoy target shooting and have done so for years with out issue but of course it only takes one bad apple to get the antis all in a tizz over it.

On a side note tho I see the news has stopped getting mileage out of the u.s tragedy and I can see exactly nothing being changed in there laws

There have been a few more than “one bad apple” – I cited two fairly recent, tragic and highly publicised incidents.

If the system doesn’t prevent a psychotic person or anyone else taking a handgun home, then the system is broken and needs to be fixed.

IP

LSWCHP said :

Regarding the Glock being a target pistol, it depends on the type of match you shoot. I used to own a Glock, it was a nice piece of machinery and I shot a lot of targets with it. I eventually sold it because I didn’t like the feel of the trigger, and purchased a different gun, which I shot in a match yesterday.

The idiot who got shot in Sydney was illegally carrying his firearm which is a profoundly stupid thing to do. If you point a gun at someone, particularly the cops, they may well point their guns back at you and shoot you. I don’t have much sympathy for him.

As for target shooting, that’s the primary reason I own firearms, and I would certainly miss it if I could no longer participate.

I think I was reasonably clear that target shooting was not my “target”, rather target shooting with pistols which have no purpose outside the firing range. Target shooting with a rifle is a skill which is transferrable to the community – shooting feral animals being the obvious one. There are legal and reasonable reasons for having a rifle or shotgun in the community – none that I can think of for a pistol, be it semi-automatic or revolver.

Presumably you do have some sympathy for the police who had to shoot Mr Elkass, for the people who witnessed the shooting, and for his family, and for all the other people directly and indirectly affected. All because you a few people want to get their kicks from shooting targets with a pistol. There are lots of things I might enjoy doing but I don’t because they are illegal because society has decided they be so.

In fact, it would probably be fun to play with RPGs – can we legalise that for me to do on a firing range if I promise never to take it home to deal with a dispute with my neighbours?

IP

IrishPete said :

Reviving an oldish thread here, because I’m surprised that no-one raised the issue of Mr Elkass http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/fatal-shooting-police-may-not-have-identified-themselves-inquest-20121203-2aq8k.html who had a legally owned, but illegally in his possession, Glock. I think that’s a semi-automatic pistol. I can’t see much reason for a private citizen to have access to one of those – it’s hardly a target pistol is it?

It would be better to have universal controls, rather than trying to target them on specific people. Handguns do seem to be the main problem, presumably because of ease of concealment. Apart from the sport of target shooting, which most of us wouldn’t miss if it disappeared, what possible reason can a memebr of the public have for legally possessing a handgun?

IP

Regarding the Glock being a target pistol, it depends on the type of match you shoot. I used to own a Glock, it was a nice piece of machinery and I shot a lot of targets with it. I eventually sold it because I didn’t like the feel of the trigger, and purchased a different gun, which I shot in a match yesterday.

The idiot who got shot in Sydney was illegally carrying his firearm which is a profoundly stupid thing to do. If you point a gun at someone, particularly the cops, they may well point their guns back at you and shoot you. I don’t have much sympathy for him.

As for target shooting, that’s the primary reason I own firearms, and I would certainly miss it if I could no longer participate.

IrishPete said :

Reviving an oldish thread here, because I’m surprised that no-one raised the issue of Mr Elkass http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/fatal-shooting-police-may-not-have-identified-themselves-inquest-20121203-2aq8k.html who had a legally owned, but illegally in his possession, Glock. I think that’s a semi-automatic pistol. I can’t see much reason for a private citizen to have access to one of those – it’s hardly a target pistol is it?

Also the older case of Ms Fernando http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/gun-death-triggers-battle-to-close-pistol-club-and-limit-access-to-weapons-20110121-19zzw.html who also illegally took a gun home from a club and killed her father with it. I can’t find much info on the type of pistol used.

People will argue that better criminal record checks and mental health checks would prevent these occurrences, but I beg to differ. A person can develop a mental illness at any time, especially in young adulthood. And I’m not sure that gun clubs should be given access to people’s health records. And as health records are state-based, if you move interstate you won’t be known to the system.

It would be better to have universal controls, rather than trying to target them on specific people. Handguns do seem to be the main problem, presumably because of ease of concealment. Apart from the sport of target shooting, which most of us wouldn’t miss if it disappeared, what possible reason can a memebr of the public have for legally possessing a handgun?

IP

Because responsible folk enjoy target shooting and have done so for years with out issue but of course it only takes one bad apple to get the antis all in a tizz over it. On a side note tho I see the news has stopped getting mileage out of the u.s tragedy and I can see exactly nothing being changed in there laws

Reviving an oldish thread here, because I’m surprised that no-one raised the issue of Mr Elkass http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/fatal-shooting-police-may-not-have-identified-themselves-inquest-20121203-2aq8k.html who had a legally owned, but illegally in his possession, Glock. I think that’s a semi-automatic pistol. I can’t see much reason for a private citizen to have access to one of those – it’s hardly a target pistol is it?

Also the older case of Ms Fernando http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/gun-death-triggers-battle-to-close-pistol-club-and-limit-access-to-weapons-20110121-19zzw.html who also illegally took a gun home from a club and killed her father with it. I can’t find much info on the type of pistol used.

People will argue that better criminal record checks and mental health checks would prevent these occurrences, but I beg to differ. A person can develop a mental illness at any time, especially in young adulthood. And I’m not sure that gun clubs should be given access to people’s health records. And as health records are state-based, if you move interstate you won’t be known to the system.

It would be better to have universal controls, rather than trying to target them on specific people. Handguns do seem to be the main problem, presumably because of ease of concealment. Apart from the sport of target shooting, which most of us wouldn’t miss if it disappeared, what possible reason can a memebr of the public have for legally possessing a handgun?

IP

Postalgeek said :

james270 said :

Postalgeek said :

james270 said :

If you think for one moment that Samantha Lee is anything other than anti-gun I would seriously question your soundness of mind and whether it is appropriate that you have a firearms licence as you claim:)

And if you think Alex Downer is evidence of Green/Lefties using these events to push their own barrow, I have to question yours

Of you could kindly point out where I referred to Alexander Downer as a lefty/green it would be much appreciated.

I asked for a sample of Green/Lefty barrow pushing and in response you posted a link that featured Alex Downer championing gun control along a gun control lobbyist. I was just going by what you posted. Apologies if I drew a different conclusion to the one you intended.

No worries. Have a good Christmas/Festivus/Other secular celebration:-)

LSWCHP said :

I was wondering about that. Sweet, but well noisy. I prefer the Swede. 🙂

There are no flies on the Swede, suitable for everything from mice to moose:-)

james270 said :

Postalgeek said :

james270 said :

If you think for one moment that Samantha Lee is anything other than anti-gun I would seriously question your soundness of mind and whether it is appropriate that you have a firearms licence as you claim:)

And if you think Alex Downer is evidence of Green/Lefties using these events to push their own barrow, I have to question yours

Of you could kindly point out where I referred to Alexander Downer as a lefty/green it would be much appreciated.

I asked for a sample of Green/Lefty barrow pushing and in response you posted a link that featured Alex Downer championing gun control along a gun control lobbyist. I was just going by what you posted. Apologies if I drew a different conclusion to the one you intended.

james270 said :

Jim Jones said :

james270 said :

the anti-gun lobby

That’s pretty much told me all I need to know right there.

My personal stance on the matter has no bearing on what I posted Jim. A member asked for evidence of calls for gun control in Australia and I provided it.

And if you were as astute as you seem to think you are my username would have given you a pretty good indication on my thoughts on firearms.

I was wondering about that. Sweet, but well noisy. I prefer the Swede. 🙂

Postalgeek said :

james270 said :

If you think for one moment that Samantha Lee is anything other than anti-gun I would seriously question your soundness of mind and whether it is appropriate that you have a firearms licence as you claim:)

And if you think Alex Downer is evidence of Green/Lefties using these events to push their own barrow, I have to question yours

Of you could kindly point out where I referred to Alexander Downer as a lefty/green it would be much appreciated.

Postalgeek said :

james270 said :

If you think for one moment that Samantha Lee is anything other than anti-gun I would seriously question your soundness of mind and whether it is appropriate that you have a firearms licence as you claim:)

And if you think Alex Downer is evidence of Green/Lefties using these events to push their own barrow, I have to question yours

Not to mention that champion of the left, John Howard, who gave us stronger gun control all those years ago.

It’s going to be interesting if they do ban these assault weapons in the US. What will happen when the government tries to take them off the people who have been preparing for this very situation. They might end up having to pry them from their cold dead hands.

If you’ve wondered why so much big money supports the otherwise nutty notion of private gun rights in the US Mark Ames has published as good a theory as any on NSFWcorp.com

Thanks for that link JB. One of the better reads on the whole debate I’ve come across.

LSWCHP said :

liability said :

Andrew Leigh has been a rabid anti gunner for years, just google his name and all will be revealed.

He doesn’t have a whole lot of new stuff to offer, just tends to rehash other peoples work.

I see that some of the anti gun people are suggesting a gun buyback in America, like we had a few years ago. I would like to see the cost estimate on that one!

I have had some experience with military weapons. And believe me, assault rifles in private hands is not in the public interest.

Not at all.

Ever.

I’m what most Australians would call a loony gun nut. For what its worth, I’m an intelligent, tertiary educated professional with a career, a home in the suburbs, a wife and four kids. I’m an engineer, and instead of cars I focus my attention on firearms. They’re astounding pieces of precision machinery, and every weekend I use them to convert money into noise and poke holes in pieces of paper. That’s it. That’s all I do with them at them moment, although I’ve hunted in the past and I may do so again in the future.

Like Thumper, I have some experience with assault rifles and I agree with him that nobody in the community needs them. That was decided long ago.

On the other hand LegalNut suggests that banning all firearms is a no-brainer. I can understand why someone might feel this way at this time, but I very respectfully disagree. Like many of my friends, I’ve owned and used firearms for over 30 years without hurting anybody. This is not America, and the processes required for obtaining and using firearms are extremely onerous.

We don’t need further restrictions on firearm ownership in Australia. We probably do need better enforcement of existing laws.

No – that makes you an intelligent and responsible gun owner.

The loony gun nuts are the ones who horde every piece of artillery and ammunition they can get their hands on in order to protect themselves against their sworn enemy – the government. Fortunately we don’t have many of those here.

As for the insane mass murderers, they’re just insane mass murderers. The only thing you can do for them is to make it as hard as is humanly possible for them to get their hands on a gun.

james270 said :

If you think for one moment that Samantha Lee is anything other than anti-gun I would seriously question your soundness of mind and whether it is appropriate that you have a firearms licence as you claim:)

And if you think Alex Downer is evidence of Green/Lefties using these events to push their own barrow, I have to question yours

Postalgeek said :

james270 said :

Jim Jones said :

james270 said :

Postalgeek said :

460cixy said :

I have been waiting for this to appear on RA. Now I really can’t see why an event like this as sad as it is should have any effect on our own firearms laws here. Yet the greens and leftys keep using events like this to push there own barrow and our stupid media keep giving them the time of day.

I haven’t seen that, except for one piece today in the SMH about a shooter lobby committee hampering police proposals. Maybe I’m blind. Maybe you’re spinning bullshit. Point out some of it to give your comment a bit of context.

You mean something like this…

http://au.tv.yahoo.com/sunrise/video/-/watch/82750dcb-74e3-30d6-8299-104024da0ccf/call-to-ban-guns-in-us/

Sunrise … seriously … you’re linking to a Sunrise video?

I am not a fan of Sunrise at all, but if this is the medium the anti-gun lobby wishes to use to promote their cause then I am happy to point it out to people.

Just watch the last minute of the video if you cant, like me, bear to sit through the whole thing.

Maybe you should’ve watched the video then.

I see Alex Downer. Obviously a raving Green Leftie, oh wait….

I see a Gun Control lobbyist talking about possible restriction of semi-automatic pistols. Well, that’s just anti-gun all over it. Gun control and anti-gun obviously mean the same thing. I mean bolt-action rifles clearly fall into the semi-automatic pistol category.

Fark me. I’m a licensed shooter who regularly uses firearms on a farm, and I may not agree with all the gun control proposals, but I am amazed at the sloppy statements and hysterical shit coming from certain elements of the gun lobby. No wonder thinking people in the media don’t take them seriously.

BTW what Downer had to say about One Nation and the gun lobby was very interesting. Thanks for the link.

If you think for one moment that Samantha Lee is anything other than anti-gun I would seriously question your soundness of mind and whether it is appropriate that you have a firearms licence as you claim:)

Jim Jones said :

james270 said :

My personal stance on the matter has no bearing on what I posted Jim. A member asked for evidence of calls for gun control in Australia and I provided it.

There wasn’t a call for more gun control in Australia – it was a couple of people saying that the yanks should follow the Oz model. A Sunrise video with the ‘last minute’ statement being an off the cuff remark that “semi-automatic handguns have no place in society”. Hardly convincing evidence of a ‘lobby’ for mine.

james270 said :

And if you were as astute as you seem to think you are my username would have given you a pretty good indication on my thoughts on firearms.

I dunno, you some religious nut or something?

So the calls for Julia Gillard to ban handguns in Australia isnt a call for more gun control in Australia?

james270 said :

Jim Jones said :

james270 said :

Postalgeek said :

460cixy said :

I have been waiting for this to appear on RA. Now I really can’t see why an event like this as sad as it is should have any effect on our own firearms laws here. Yet the greens and leftys keep using events like this to push there own barrow and our stupid media keep giving them the time of day.

I haven’t seen that, except for one piece today in the SMH about a shooter lobby committee hampering police proposals. Maybe I’m blind. Maybe you’re spinning bullshit. Point out some of it to give your comment a bit of context.

You mean something like this…

http://au.tv.yahoo.com/sunrise/video/-/watch/82750dcb-74e3-30d6-8299-104024da0ccf/call-to-ban-guns-in-us/

Sunrise … seriously … you’re linking to a Sunrise video?

I am not a fan of Sunrise at all, but if this is the medium the anti-gun lobby wishes to use to promote their cause then I am happy to point it out to people.

Just watch the last minute of the video if you cant, like me, bear to sit through the whole thing.

Maybe you should’ve watched the video then.

I see Alex Downer. Obviously a raving Green Leftie, oh wait….

I see a Gun Control lobbyist talking about possible restriction of semi-automatic pistols. Well, that’s just anti-gun all over it. Gun control and anti-gun obviously mean the same thing. I mean bolt-action rifles clearly fall into the semi-automatic pistol category.

Fark me. I’m a licensed shooter who regularly uses firearms on a farm, and I may not agree with all the gun control proposals, but I am amazed at the sloppy statements and hysterical shit coming from certain elements of the gun lobby. No wonder thinking people in the media don’t take them seriously.

BTW what Downer had to say about One Nation and the gun lobby was very interesting. Thanks for the link.

james270 said :

My personal stance on the matter has no bearing on what I posted Jim. A member asked for evidence of calls for gun control in Australia and I provided it.

There wasn’t a call for more gun control in Australia – it was a couple of people saying that the yanks should follow the Oz model. A Sunrise video with the ‘last minute’ statement being an off the cuff remark that “semi-automatic handguns have no place in society”. Hardly convincing evidence of a ‘lobby’ for mine.

james270 said :

And if you were as astute as you seem to think you are my username would have given you a pretty good indication on my thoughts on firearms.

I dunno, you some religious nut or something?

Jim Jones said :

Sunrise … seriously … you’re linking to a Sunrise video?

Surely that’s better than not linking to anything at all, not providing a refutation of the point, and just slagging off others views without actually contributing a damn thing to the debate, like someone here we could mention.

Jim Jones said :

james270 said :

the anti-gun lobby

That’s pretty much told me all I need to know right there.

My personal stance on the matter has no bearing on what I posted Jim. A member asked for evidence of calls for gun control in Australia and I provided it.

And if you were as astute as you seem to think you are my username would have given you a pretty good indication on my thoughts on firearms.

james270 said :

the anti-gun lobby

That’s pretty much told me all I need to know right there.

Jim Jones said :

james270 said :

Postalgeek said :

460cixy said :

I have been waiting for this to appear on RA. Now I really can’t see why an event like this as sad as it is should have any effect on our own firearms laws here. Yet the greens and leftys keep using events like this to push there own barrow and our stupid media keep giving them the time of day.

I haven’t seen that, except for one piece today in the SMH about a shooter lobby committee hampering police proposals. Maybe I’m blind. Maybe you’re spinning bullshit. Point out some of it to give your comment a bit of context.

You mean something like this…

http://au.tv.yahoo.com/sunrise/video/-/watch/82750dcb-74e3-30d6-8299-104024da0ccf/call-to-ban-guns-in-us/

Sunrise … seriously … you’re linking to a Sunrise video?

I am not a fan of Sunrise at all, but if this is the medium the anti-gun lobby wishes to use to promote their cause then I am happy to point it out to people.

Just watch the last minute of the video if you cant, like me, bear to sit through the whole thing.

james270 said :

Postalgeek said :

460cixy said :

I have been waiting for this to appear on RA. Now I really can’t see why an event like this as sad as it is should have any effect on our own firearms laws here. Yet the greens and leftys keep using events like this to push there own barrow and our stupid media keep giving them the time of day.

I haven’t seen that, except for one piece today in the SMH about a shooter lobby committee hampering police proposals. Maybe I’m blind. Maybe you’re spinning bullshit. Point out some of it to give your comment a bit of context.

You mean something like this…

http://au.tv.yahoo.com/sunrise/video/-/watch/82750dcb-74e3-30d6-8299-104024da0ccf/call-to-ban-guns-in-us/

Sunrise … seriously … you’re linking to a Sunrise video?

Postalgeek said :

460cixy said :

I have been waiting for this to appear on RA. Now I really can’t see why an event like this as sad as it is should have any effect on our own firearms laws here. Yet the greens and leftys keep using events like this to push there own barrow and our stupid media keep giving them the time of day.

I haven’t seen that, except for one piece today in the SMH about a shooter lobby committee hampering police proposals. Maybe I’m blind. Maybe you’re spinning bullshit. Point out some of it to give your comment a bit of context.

You mean something like this…

http://au.tv.yahoo.com/sunrise/video/-/watch/82750dcb-74e3-30d6-8299-104024da0ccf/call-to-ban-guns-in-us/

NoImRight said :

460cixy said :

I have been waiting for this to appear on RA. Now I really can’t see why an event like this as sad as it is should have any effect on our own firearms laws here. Yet the greens and leftys keep using events like this to push there own barrow and our stupid media keep giving them the time of day.

Why dont you wait until someone actually does that before trotting out your faux outrage? It seems more like you are using this event to push your own little bandwagon a bit further.

Maybe I should push my band wagon some more seeing as there’s a few shooters on here maybe an RA range meet and a show and tell is in order

460cixy said :

I have been waiting for this to appear on RA. Now I really can’t see why an event like this as sad as it is should have any effect on our own firearms laws here. Yet the greens and leftys keep using events like this to push there own barrow and our stupid media keep giving them the time of day.

Why dont you wait until someone actually does that before trotting out your faux outrage? It seems more like you are using this event to push your own little bandwagon a bit further.

Endrey said :

Andrew Leigh’s fantastic. It’s a sad indictment on the Labor Party’s internal systems that he is without a ministry.

yep, sad. like the member he replaced, bob mcmullan, being unaligned with the factions means his undoubted talent and razor mind will never be wholly or effectively exploited by his party.

and i see lswchp’s persepective, though while he [assuming he, having ‘a wife’] has never hurt anyone with a firearm, the need to limit / remove their accessibility to those who would do harm outweighs, i believe, the ownership by those who would not. sadly.

460cixy said :

I have been waiting for this to appear on RA. Now I really can’t see why an event like this as sad as it is should have any effect on our own firearms laws here. Yet the greens and leftys keep using events like this to push there own barrow and our stupid media keep giving them the time of day.

I haven’t seen that, except for one piece today in the SMH about a shooter lobby committee hampering police proposals. Maybe I’m blind. Maybe you’re spinning bullshit. Point out some of it to give your comment a bit of context.

liability said :

I see that some of the anti gun people are suggesting a gun buyback in America, like we had a few years ago. I would like to see the cost estimate on that one!

Big, but not as big as it needs to be – mandatory or otherwise, the take-up rate is sure to be frustratingly low. There are so many serious weapons in the US, and so many people convinced that they want/need them, that it’ll take years and years and a serious commitment to make any real impact.

I just don’t see it happening. More’s the pity, because it’s exactly what they need.

No one credible is pushing for more gun control here.

Rather we’re all getting a chance to be smug and say “I told you so” to mighty America.

Enjoy it while it lasts.

Holden Caulfield10:20 am 20 Dec 12

johnboy said :

LegalNut said :

I’m not convinced that O’Reilly was using Leigh’s research to support gun control. The way he quoted it was basically fishing for the other guy to refute it and make out that even strong, academic research that supports gun control is wrong. Banning all guns, let alone AR-15s, is a no-brainer. I’m just not convinced that Bill O’Reilly got the memo.

I think you need to learn to parse media better. For Fox that was unprecedented, and he kept slapping the ratbag’s use of bogus numbers.

If you’re looking to convince a sceptical crowd that’s how you start.

Looks like “Tiger” Bill follows Malcolm on twitter, or at the very least, Rupert sat up and took notice of Turnbull’s reply!

I have been waiting for this to appear on RA. Now I really can’t see why an event like this as sad as it is should have any effect on our own firearms laws here. Yet the greens and leftys keep using events like this to push there own barrow and our stupid media keep giving them the time of day.

ScienceRules9:39 am 20 Dec 12

Ooopsie, got the stupid quoting thing wrong for the above post. The last bit is me, not me quoting someone else. If that actually matters…

ScienceRules9:38 am 20 Dec 12

LSWCHP said :

liability said :

I’m what most Australians would call a loony gun nut. For what its worth, I’m an intelligent, tertiary educated professional with a career, a home in the suburbs, a wife and four kids. I’m an engineer, and instead of cars I focus my attention on firearms. They’re astounding pieces of precision machinery, and every weekend I use them to convert money into noise and poke holes in pieces of paper. That’s it. That’s all I do with them at them moment, although I’ve hunted in the past and I may do so again in the future.

Like Thumper, I have some experience with assault rifles and I agree with him that nobody in the community needs them. That was decided long ago.

On the other hand LegalNut suggests that banning all firearms is a no-brainer. I can understand why someone might feel this way at this time, but I very respectfully disagree. Like many of my friends, I’ve owned and used firearms for over 30 years without hurting anybody. This is not America, and the processes required for obtaining and using firearms are extremely onerous.

We don’t need further restrictions on firearm ownership in Australia. We probably do need better enforcement of existing laws.

LSW, you seem more like a responsible gun owner than a self-described “loony gun nut”. I suggest that very few gun control enthusiasts (such as myself) would have any problem at all with either your collection or your hobby.

Its the gun fetishists and gun culture that we see in the US thats worth fighting, although I feel that America might just be too far gone for anything to happen. For all John Howard’s faults, his reaction after Port Arthur was spot on.

Enthusiasts such as yourself can still enjoy their sport while access to industrial scale life-removal devices such as semi-automatic firearms is severely restricted. I reckon we’ve got it about right.

The insane notion bandied about by lunatics, especially right after another massacre, that more guns makes things safer is loathesome at best. I’ve owned and used guns (pistols, rifles and shotguns) although not for many years and see absolutely no place for them as daily objects in a civilised culture.

I worked as an ambo for years and went to very few gunshot wounds, almost all self-inflicted. More importantly, it was something that we never had to realistically worry about being threatened with on the job.

Just be thankful that we live here, and not in a less developed place like Afganistan or Texas.

O’Reilly was going easy on him. Gottlieb was spouting crap that any half-decent journo could’ve nailed. All Reilly had to do was ask him for his source for figures. How people get away with that shit I’ll never know. A mentally ill Chinese man stabbed 22 school kids in Henan Province on the same day as Sandy Hook. None died. O’Reilly could’ve gone to town, but at least he wasn’t at his most obsequious.

There is no place for semis among civilians. The only civil exception are professional shooters employed to cull.
Guns like the AR 15 are aimed squarely at fcktard preppers with stunted imaginations and kill fantasies who have yet to figure out that being allowed to have a rapid fire gun means the predators coming to get them are equally enabled. A key to survival is reducing other people’s ability to kill you, not increasing it, because unless you’re a psychopath yourself or exceptionally paranoid, they will always have the first shot advantage.

liability said :

Andrew Leigh has been a rabid anti gunner for years, just google his name and all will be revealed.

He doesn’t have a whole lot of new stuff to offer, just tends to rehash other peoples work.

I see that some of the anti gun people are suggesting a gun buyback in America, like we had a few years ago. I would like to see the cost estimate on that one!

I have had some experience with military weapons. And believe me, assault rifles in private hands is not in the public interest.

Not at all.

Ever.

I’m what most Australians would call a loony gun nut. For what its worth, I’m an intelligent, tertiary educated professional with a career, a home in the suburbs, a wife and four kids. I’m an engineer, and instead of cars I focus my attention on firearms. They’re astounding pieces of precision machinery, and every weekend I use them to convert money into noise and poke holes in pieces of paper. That’s it. That’s all I do with them at them moment, although I’ve hunted in the past and I may do so again in the future.

Like Thumper, I have some experience with assault rifles and I agree with him that nobody in the community needs them. That was decided long ago.

On the other hand LegalNut suggests that banning all firearms is a no-brainer. I can understand why someone might feel this way at this time, but I very respectfully disagree. Like many of my friends, I’ve owned and used firearms for over 30 years without hurting anybody. This is not America, and the processes required for obtaining and using firearms are extremely onerous.

We don’t need further restrictions on firearm ownership in Australia. We probably do need better enforcement of existing laws.

LegalNut said :

I’m not convinced that O’Reilly was using Leigh’s research to support gun control. The way he quoted it was basically fishing for the other guy to refute it and make out that even strong, academic research that supports gun control is wrong. Banning all guns, let alone AR-15s, is a no-brainer. I’m just not convinced that Bill O’Reilly got the memo.

I think you need to learn to parse media better. For Fox that was unprecedented, and he kept slapping the ratbag’s use of bogus numbers.

If you’re looking to convince a sceptical crowd that’s how you start.

Andrew Leigh’s fantastic. It’s a sad indictment on the Labor Party’s internal systems that he is without a ministry.

I’m not convinced that O’Reilly was using Leigh’s research to support gun control. The way he quoted it was basically fishing for the other guy to refute it and make out that even strong, academic research that supports gun control is wrong. Banning all guns, let alone AR-15s, is a no-brainer. I’m just not convinced that Bill O’Reilly got the memo.

Andrew Leigh has been a rabid anti gunner for years, just google his name and all will be revealed.

He doesn’t have a whole lot of new stuff to offer, just tends to rehash other peoples work.

I see that some of the anti gun people are suggesting a gun buyback in America, like we had a few years ago. I would like to see the cost estimate on that one!

NoImRight said :

Cant access the clip here but I’d be suss on what motive Big Bill has in coming down on the side of gun control. He isnt famous for a reasoned approach on ..well anything.

Probably because his boss is into gun control.

Cant access the clip here but I’d be suss on what motive Big Bill has in coming down on the side of gun control. He isnt famous for a reasoned approach on ..well anything.

Anyway “Guns dont kill people.Damn dirty apes with guns kill people!”- Charlton Heston.

Not particularly interested in what Bill O’Reilly or likeminded US or Australian broadcasters think or say, but dear god that Ames link is a depressing and scary piece.

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