12 November 2013

Builder issues in Canberra? Who do I turn to?

| MightyJoe
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Hi all,

Thought i’d post up here to ascertain who i need to talk to.

Background:

Found builder in September 2012 selling a house and land package. in November 2012 deposit paid and construction started (in earnest) in Feb 2013.

House was finished in late July 2013 with final inspection undertaken on 3 August 2013, with Cert of Occu issued 5 Aug 2013 and final payment paid. Occupied house 7 August.

Now, issue is: In final inspection a whole number of defects were identified and email to builder advising that wanted them fixed. the issues are not major non-liveable defects but minor pesky (but still important).

Example

  • Portico was not finished and to this day isn’t. (3.5 mths later)
  • large hole left in laundry ceiling and recently made bigger by builder as he removed the manhole, plus a numpty has cracked the ceiling too.
  • Painting defects (fixed)
  • Garage door painted on, marked
  • sumps not installed
  • water tank not installed
  • security / intercom not installed
  • marks on a sliding door (i.e. cleaners scratched the crap out of it)
  • Plumbing fit off items require attention i.e. the toilet seems to be the s***test quality and doesn’t work properly
  • site was not cleared as per contract
  • AC not working properly, i.e. cold spots and thermostat seems to live in its own world

and a few other things. Now, every tradesman that has worked on my house, when I contact them state that they haven’t been paid by the builder and are refusing to work on any defects. I call the builder at least once a week and most times leave a message and don’t get a call back. Only get a call back after the third or fourth day after one more call.

Who can I turn to progress this? lawyer – what type? My conveyancer doesn’t want to hear from me as he invested too much time when buying the house (worst contract ever).

ACAT? Mafia?

The items above add up into the thousands (the ceiling i had quoted at 1k to fix and paint last week) and to be honest, we are finding it tough going with what we have at the moment let alone paying for all this crap out of my pocket (again).

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Hi Mighty Joe

Sounds like I have the same builder, my experiences are incredibly similar. How did you go in the end with getting the defects remedied?

I am going through a similar experience. My builder will not answer any emails or phone calls. It is six months past completion date and the house is unfinished. He doesn’t want to complete the job and has now wired a huge fence around my block. Noone can get in, and he won’t even let any tradesmen in. I have paid all progress payments due. He was never on site and made lots of mistakes (wrong showers installed, bathrooms painted wrong colour, wrong door handles installed, wrong solar hot water system installed) and has then had to rectify those mistakes. I would be happy to get a certificate of occupancy, but it’s like pulling teeth. Some of the builders tradesmen have called to say they haven’t been paid. Actpla was not helpful. We had mediation with the MBA after builder refused to do any more work after I found out he had installed incorrect solar hot water system. Contract stipulated a Solahart; he installed a Dux. MBA did try to help, but builder won’t honour his undertaking even to them. The ACT needs legislation like the Victorian domestic building act to protect consumers from bad builders. You are not allowed to withhold final payment for what is considered to be minor defects. If the house has reached ‘practical completion’ you have to pay, otherwise you are in breach of the contract. You did the right thing. Many builders don’t bother coming back to fix their mistakes. If it’s only a matter of a few thousand, let it go and get it done yourself. If it is more, you may need legal advice. Email me at lucianah@grapevine.com.au and I can give you same names.

Mayumi_ACTGovt4:10 pm 14 Nov 13

Hi MightyJoe – we might be able to help with some of the issues raised, especially around potential non-compliance of development or building approvals. Can you call us (Investigations Unit) on 62073022? We are the Environment and Sustainable Development Directorate of ACT Govt.

If you want to initiate an investigation you will need to complete a complaint form. A number of your issues appear to be contractual and so you may wish to seek independent advice about the possibility of making an application to the ACT Civil and Administrative Tribunal.

Write the builder a letter. Send it to him and send it to his registered company address.
Outline every issue you have and what adoptions you consider fair for repair or replacement.
Look at this guide

http://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/ftw/Tenants_and_home_owners/Home_building_and_renovating/The_building_process/Guide_to_standards_and_tolerances.page

and refer to it if need be. Also research building codes etc and refer to them.
No point getting MBA HIA and ACTPLA involved. They won’t do anything to help you.

The builders subbies will not go back as they haven’t been paid which shows that the builder doesn’t care about anyone but himself.

Give the builder a reasonable time frame to get things fixed. Advise him if he doesn’t that you will follow through with ACAT (if under 10k).

Then follow through with your threats. Before lodging with ACAT get quoted on how much everything will cost so you are prepared when you do go.

By the sounds of your builders attitude it looks as like ACAT is the only possible outcome.

Good luck

the water tank is probably specified on the plans to satisfy Water sensitive urban design WSUD requirements. Actpla might make some calls to builder/certifier if they hear that a certifier is signing off on jobs that arnt meeting the rules.

zorro29 said :

ezy10z said :

Your builder is an idiot. He clearly hasn’t discussed the maintenance period with his subbies. My subbies all know that if they don’t attend to maintenance issues they wont be receiving any more work. Its unfortunate that this has fallen back on you. Keep fighting it! And definitely spread the word. Scumbags like this should be put out of business

if only more were like you 🙂 sadly not the case for a lot of people

My thoughts exactly 😀

ezy10z said :

Your builder is an idiot. He clearly hasn’t discussed the maintenance period with his subbies. My subbies all know that if they don’t attend to maintenance issues they wont be receiving any more work. Its unfortunate that this has fallen back on you. Keep fighting it! And definitely spread the word. Scumbags like this should be put out of business

if only more were like you 🙂 sadly not the case for a lot of people

Your builder is an idiot. He clearly hasn’t discussed the maintenance period with his subbies. My subbies all know that if they don’t attend to maintenance issues they wont be receiving any more work. Its unfortunate that this has fallen back on you. Keep fighting it! And definitely spread the word. Scumbags like this should be put out of business

All issues were documented before final payment was made and a running list of issues is emailed when either a month passes or an issue is added or removed.

My contract stated that final payment was due when the house was ‘practically’ complete. this does not been 100% compelte, but at a stage where the premises is basically finished, can be lived in and satifies prerequisites of obtaining the Certificate of Occupancy.

My contract stated a 120 maintenance period, and he has advised that I have 120 days to find issues, but that date doesn’t mean he has to fix within that period.

My problem is that how long do I need to wait for him to fix the issues? I still don’t have a fixed ceiling, I still have water issues as there are no sumps and my place still has intercomm / security etc

The garage door received a ‘mural’ as the painter (although he professes that it wasn’t him) painted the rendering in the middle of winter with fog and overall shitty weather. the paint has run, dripped all over the door and onto the concrete. he’s then wiped all his brushes on the side of the house (as he was cleaning them) and stained the brick work. He then had the hide to day it wasn’t him and its probably rendering concrete etc

Contacted lawyer and getting more quotes for outstanding items.

ezy10z said :

Affirmative Action Man said :

Why on earth would you make the final payment unless you are completely happy with the final inspection !!!

It doesn’t work like that. No final payment, no handover. But your builder has to give you your 90 day maintenance period, and if hes not a f#@$wit he will honor that.

As long as you’ve got these maintenance issues documented within the 90 days you shouldn’t have any problems if you decide to take it to small claims.

Affirmative Action Man said :

Why on earth would you make the final payment unless you are completely happy with the final inspection !!!

It doesn’t work like that. No final payment, no handover. But your builder has to give you your 90 day maintenance period, and if hes not a f#@$wit he will honor that.

As long as you’ve got these maintenance issues documented within the 90 days you shouldn’t have any problems if you decide to take it to small claims.

i rekkun you had the idea in the op – mafia.

MightyJoe said :

Portico I noted via correspondence that I was unhappy, but at the end for the day the certifer cleared it as being to be completed.

The certifier’s job is only to declare that the building work complies with the building code and substantially with the plans, and issue a compliance certificate. They don’t certify that it’s completed, nor beyond the scope above assess the quality of work or compliance with the contract.

That’s part of the Certificate of Occupancy, which is applied for by the property owner and the application for which carries a warning that professional advice should be sought to assess building and contractual compliance. That application asks the building owner to make a legal declaration that the work has been “completed.”

So that’s why it’s important to get some proper legal advice, see what options under the contract and the statutory warranty are available. That doesn’t mean you have to pursue legal action, but at the very least you’ll be armed with some language and some non-court options that you can go after this builder with.

•Garage door painted on, marked

I, for one, would be outraged if various elements of my house turned out to be murals.

johnboy said :

No names will be published.

Niknak you can defend your defo suit to prove truth on your own site. I’ll chip in $100 for your legal fees but you’ll need at least $100,000 up front to get that far.

I wasn’t advocating naming names, simply noting that if an assertion is true, it’s not slanderous.

That said, I recognise the legal standard, rather than the commonly accepted definition, generally decides these things.

Objection sustained 🙂

Portico I noted via correspondence that I was unhappy, but at the end for the day the certifer cleared it as being to be completed.

MightyJoe said :

As per contract it doesn’t affect the practical completion of the house.

c_c™ said :

Affirmative Action Man said :

Why on earth would you make the final payment unless you are completely happy with the final inspection !!!

It’s a tricky one, I wouldn’t have without first seeking legal advice. But important to note that if you don’t pay, you could put yourself in breach of the contract. You’d only want to do that upon legal advice.

As per contract it doesn’t affect the practical completion of the house.

c_c™ said :

Affirmative Action Man said :

Why on earth would you make the final payment unless you are completely happy with the final inspection !!!

It’s a tricky one, I wouldn’t have without first seeking legal advice. But important to note that if you don’t pay, you could put yourself in breach of the contract. You’d only want to do that upon legal advice.

MightyJoe said :

I won’t mention names as not really looking to slander (yet) without seeking some sort of advice, but don’t know who.

It’s not slander if it’s true.

No names will be published.

Niknak you can defend your defo suit to prove truth on your own site. I’ll chip in $100 for your legal fees but you’ll need at least $100,000 up front to get that far.

Affirmative Action Man said :

Why on earth would you make the final payment unless you are completely happy with the final inspection !!!

It’s a tricky one, I wouldn’t have without first seeking legal advice. But important to note that if you don’t pay, you could put yourself in breach of the contract. You’d only want to do that upon legal advice.

Some of the things on the lists are defects (using the term in the common not the legal sense), but things like a missing water tank or intercom system are well beyond that. It’s a contract issue, assuming the contract requires the supply of those things, the builder has failed to perform their obligations. Shouldn’t have paid, shouldn’t have taken possession, should have gone to a lawyer.

Should definitely seek legal advice now. Once you pay up and take possession, it can make things more difficult, so they’ll be able to work through these issues and at least given you a better idea of where you stand now.

Affirmative Action Man5:55 pm 12 Nov 13

Why on earth would you make the final payment unless you are completely happy with the final inspection !!!

I know the builder you’re talking about. We’re currently having similar issues with them. Haven’t gone as far as ACAT (yet) though we are getting advice. Contact us at m8r-vei7e4@mailinator.com if you want to discuss further.

MightyJoe said :

I’ve been keeping all emails to the builder advising of issues and where things have been rectified, i cross them off the list and resubmit to him.

Problem is he doesn’t say that its not his problem, but the inaction is what getting to me. I can understand a few weeks, but honestly almost 4 mths.

All I want is the finished product I paid for.

yeah keep with it. they really have an obligation to fix issues within 90 days of settlement. it seems you have an agreed maintenance list so take the action into your own hands

as i mentioned with my own experience, you can’t be made 100% whole (or at least, it’s not likely), but you at least get the satisfaction of sticking it back to the builder for a moment

and share a surname with the crowded house fellas

MightyJoe said :

No final payment, no house.

I know that 3 other houses haven’t been paying him (since stage 2/3) as they refuse to move in with known defects.

He’s not a member of the MBA or HIA, does have a license, as does his brother and father.

I won’t mention names as not really looking to slander (yet) without seeking some sort of advice, but don’t know who.

i will mention that the family does pools, has a new crossfit gym in Mitchell and seem like general nice blokes.

Leo61 said :

Seek legal advice and also contact MBA to see if they can offer some help. Knowing the tradies haven’t been paid isn’t a good sign. I wouldn’t have made the final payment following the final inspection. Can you name the builder so that others don’t make the same mistake in using their services.

No final payment, no house.

I know that 3 other houses haven’t been paying him (since stage 2/3) as they refuse to move in with known defects.

He’s not a member of the MBA or HIA, does have a license, as does his brother and father.

I won’t mention names as not really looking to slander (yet) without seeking some sort of advice, but don’t know who.

i will mention that the family does pools, has a new crossfit gym in Mitchell and seem like general nice blokes.

Leo61 said :

Seek legal advice and also contact MBA to see if they can offer some help. Knowing the tradies haven’t been paid isn’t a good sign. I wouldn’t have made the final payment following the final inspection. Can you name the builder so that others don’t make the same mistake in using their services.

Leo61 said :

Seek legal advice and also contact MBA to see if they can offer some help. Knowing the tradies haven’t been paid isn’t a good sign. I wouldn’t have made the final payment following the final inspection. Can you name the builder so that others don’t make the same mistake in using their services.

Agreed, I’d have withheld the final payment until the property was up to MY standard.
Of course there is always going to be things which only become evident once you’ve moved in.

I’m with the others, get some quotes to fix up the problems and take the builder to the small claims court.

Seek legal advice and also contact MBA to see if they can offer some help. Knowing the tradies haven’t been paid isn’t a good sign. I wouldn’t have made the final payment following the final inspection. Can you name the builder so that others don’t make the same mistake in using their services.

I’ve been keeping all emails to the builder advising of issues and where things have been rectified, i cross them off the list and resubmit to him.

Problem is he doesn’t say that its not his problem, but the inaction is what getting to me. I can understand a few weeks, but honestly almost 4 mths.

All I want is the finished product I paid for.

^^ disagree

i had a similar issue with a builder when my house was built. i kept evidence of my attempts to get them to rectify issues within the defect period (and before) and kept all their “no” responses received both personally and through my solicitor

i got a number of things fixed myself and then got quotes for the other work. i then went to ACAT (approx $200 to pursue a case of up to $10k).

i did a lot of prep work for it and had to attend 3 times (each time the builder didn’t show up – the first times we called them and i waited around for hours for them to come – ridiculous hey?). the third time, the judge just made a ruling in their absence (he was a cool guy actually) and it was enforced

didn’t get everything i wanted but i got a good portion towards it

Holden Caulfield12:02 pm 12 Nov 13

Speaking from previous experience, unless you’re prepared and able to pursue legal action you’re going to be on your own. And, sadly, you have to question, even if you are prepared to go down the legal route, what the chances are of achieving a positive outcome for yourself.

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