16 October 2007

Canberra Centre Motorcycle parking

| Lurch
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If you haven’t recently noticed, the only new bit of MC parking we have had in a long time has recently been closed.

In the lane way at the Canberra Centre, outside Nando’s, was finally a bit of open, easily accessible bike parking. As it was, there was no exact signage, however bollards were up allowing, essentially, only access by Motorcycle. As of last week, this has just been blockaded up and the bollards removed to allow workmen to paint in car parking lines. I can only assume then next step will be parking meters – but don’t quote me on that.

Here is a letter I sent to John Hargraves, the Minister for such things:

John,

You wouldn’t know me from a bar of soap; however I help run a group of Motorcyclists in Canberra called CanberraRIDERS.
We are a little concerned with the removal of the best MC parking we have had in the Canberra CBD, at the Canberra Centre, outside Nando’s.
My questions are, whose decision was it to remove/change/re-designate this area? And also what is going to be done to replace it.
Currently the only MC parking on that side of civic is the parking down behind the alleyway near Cotton On. This area is small, crowded and bikes are regularly damaged due to both these conditions and passer by’s. Very, very frequently, the entrance to this area is blocked by cars, not realising what they have blocked.
This is all as opposed to the area that has now been closed which was open, spacious, with security guards regularly out there, and maybe even CCTV.
With motorcycles becoming more and more prevalent in the city due to congestion and parking, the MC community as a whole has been waiting a while for some decent parking in the city, and we finally got it. Now it has been taken away.

I await your response and thankyou for your time.

Jason Weber

Does anyone else know of anything I am missing here?

To give you some more information, the Canberra Centre tells me that the area in question was only ever designated ‘Short-term parking’ – you know, what with all those bollards up and no signage. When questioned about this, I was told that this fell under the responsibility of Territory and Municipal Services.

So I email them to…

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Having these parks doesn’t assist in the ACT Governments expected income from parking fines and infridgements. Please go park somewhere illegally, so we can make some more money! Hang on, I’ll just re-mark where you are now…….that’ll be 82 bucks thanks.

Folks, as a newbie to the ACT 2 wheel scene but a long term rider of some 20+ years in Vic I can say that the ACT is somehwat regressive on bike parking. In Vic almost any where is ok to park as long as it is out of the way of pedestrians and cars (obviously with a few legislative constraints). There was a small piece in today’s CT that suggested the MRA have made a submission to the receptive bods running this fair territory’s affairs. It may be worthwhile piggy backing this initiative (as a suggestion only of course!).

wow – this is really an eye-opener…..I niavely thought that the ACT – in accordance with its aims of being green, sustainable and encouraging socially responsible activities would be actively encouraging the use of motorcycles and scooters as an alternative to cars.
reduced emissions, reduced road wear and tear, reduced congestion all seem to align with that?
I *thought* that there would be an ACT government policy *requiring* a % of MC parking at all major locations….and over time that would increase…….until I got a bike 6 months ago and found MC parking to be few and far between.
In most places this means there is none. Incredible.
Am I asking for free packing for MCs/scooters? yes. Is this ‘unfair’ to car drivers I am one of them too) – no. This would be government encouraging desired behaviour in society. Thats what governments are elected to do.
I am gob-smacked that this isnt ACT govt policy right now.

“$14,990 drive away Hyundoosan incurs LESS stamp duty than say, a second hand Buell at $17,000???? Let’s see….3% of ..mmm ….carry the one…mutter mutter ….TOO HARD for me.”

Then let me explain a Buell is a state of the art piece of engineering (although it is of US origin, so not that state if the art) and a Hyundai is a piece of rubbish. Of course you pay more (and therefore more stamp duty). This is not a fair comparison in anyway.

down alleyway across the road thats been a moto park for years or do you like to look at your scooter while sipping your latte

Stamp duty aside, the 12 new parking spaces they have created in Genge st behind the multi storey carpark are unneccessary. They will be five minute spots, and whenever you want one they’ll be full. They would avhe been far better as motorbike parks, as they were used for the last few weeks.

About 15 bikes in each of the 4 bays, is over 50 bikes that can get a convenient park, and will be encouraged to ride to work. It makes sense to me that more bikes on the road and less cars will alleviate traffic and parking congestion.

You’re right. What a “melonhead” I was. I forgot to explain that when you buy a new motor vehicle of ANY type, then you have to pay stamp duty. Even when you move from interstate, you have to pay stamp duty on your motorised pride and joy. This stamp duty, as you so sagely point out, is calculated on the cost of the vehicle. Who would have thought that??

So is it my ariffmetic, or what? “For passenger vehicles with a purchase price or market value of less than $45,000, duty is payable at the rate of $3.00 for every $100.00 or part thereof”. Does this mean that my shiny new $14,990 drive away Hyundoosan incurs LESS stamp duty than say, a second hand Buell at $17,000???? Let’s see….3% of ..mmm ….carry the one…mutter mutter ….TOO HARD for me.

It must, coz I’m a melon head.

Listen, the point of the comment is that the cost of owning a motorcycle is NOT cheep, like a budgie. There are no favours from the Government, You pay your rego at a disproportionate rate to most cars, you pay your stamp duty, you pay your insurance, and its GST/Stamp duty etc. In return, you don’t add much to traffic congestion, you don’t cause road damage at the same rate as cars and trucks, and you get to park in dingy crowded parking spaces. (If you can get there before the cars that I regularly see in Barton in the at least one Motorcycle parking area)

Sorry for being a melon head. I cant help it.

Summary:

If all the people who drive a car with 0 (nil passengers) from their home to their place of work, AND who didn’t have school children to transport, (and all those types of exceptions, which are the way of the world) then the current woeful state of roads and parking would last many more years. It is not a difficult concept. Look around you in the morning peak and see how many cars have NO passenger. Shirtloads is my observation. Think (you all can do it) how much less congestion there would be if all these single passenger cars, with no need for detours etc, all were on bikes/scooters/treadlies. Everyone, open your mind to the possibilities.

Thanks,

“melonhead”

Yes, I know this is a bit pie in the sky, but my main point was the cost of stamp duty. The rest just happened.

Ingeegoodbee7:22 am 20 Oct 07

“Don’t let the fact that stamp duty on a new bike is the same as a lot of cars cloud your judgment.”

Of perhaps you could try not to let the fact that stamp duty is calculated on the price of the vehicle cloud your lack of intelligence. Melonhead.

I simply can’t wait for this protest to get off the ground.

Mix it with the Canberra illegal parking corps, and for every bike in a car spot, there will be an illegally parked car over the white line divider.

Gold !

Dear Mr Hargreaves,

Have you managed to get out of the Assemby lately? If so, you may have noticed the number of motorcycles parked in the side street near the new bit of the Canberra Centre. Fortunately, someone has decided that it would be a better use of resources to rent bollards and put there. I am sure you can recoup the cost of this with paid short term car parking and fines. It is good to know that the economic management of the territory is in good hands. The fact that there is a demand for this facility only means you get more pleasure from denying it, eh John?

What have those motorcyclists got to complain about? Surely we enjoy being scalped at the rego office each year. I personally look forward to being abused by a car driver when I park in a car space. And what if motorbikes cause shirtloads less wear and tear on road surfaces? Gee, if more people took to motorcycles and scooters coz there was an incentive, such as parking availability, where would you spend the money on crap road repairs? And you know that nobody would thank you if there was a noticeable reduction in traffic congestion. Why bother with this group of ratbags? Just let them suffer. Get up them John. Don’t let the fact that stamp duty on a new bike is the same as a lot of cars cloud your judgement. It must be better for the planet to have Northbourne Ave filled with cars every morning, not to mention your desire for the government to put speed/redlight cameras every where in the interests of road safety.

You have to ignore this stupid outbreak of common sense. This shouldn’t be difficult given your Government’s track record.

Your sincerely

MotorCyle Rider.

P1: yes you are required to “pay and display” in such car parks, which isnt exactly easy to do 🙁 Hence why you dont see bikes in them.

Mim, based on this statement ” An accident with a motorbike is mostly going to damage only the motorbike, which is good for CTP premiums.” you have no idea what CTP is all about.

In fact being a bike rider will increase CTP because it covers damage to people not property. Also I would have though in an accident with a motor bike the rider would suffer the most damage, hence raising CTP.

As for parking, agree there needs to be dedicated spaces so as to not waste them. But you should pay the same rate as everyone else.

Ingeegoodbee10:30 pm 16 Oct 07

Never in my post did I say or imply anything about anything being “unfair” so lurch you can shove that up your bum. And since you were asking I can cite the plethora of bikes you see parked on side walks and footpaths outside (and this is a limited list for the sake of brevity)- Kambah Tavern, Wanniassa shopping centre, O’Connor shops and Green Square in Kingston. Now to be fair, I will be honest and point out that these bikes are normally of the American built variety – and I have always wondered why someone would be so stupid as to spend money on a sh!tbox Harley when you could have a far better perfornming Jap or Euro bike and get the same sound by simply jamming a couple of holes in the muffler with a screw-driver!

As to any of the other whinges you losers have managed to dredge up – who cares, just make sure you lay off the booze, I might need one of your kidneys one day!

I find the canberra centre carparks very motorbike friendly. just ride around the swing arms on the way in and again on the way out. undercover and secure to some level, sweet

That road was open to cars today with a pedestrian crossing. I don’t know why they bothered. It seemed to work better as a pedestrain/bike zone.

Lack of bike parking is an issue at Defence as well, where there is only one small area in the whole suburb/Russell complex.

I support the idea of more bike parking around the place. Those 5 carparks outside nandos were always filled with about 20 bikes at all times – I was amazed. And I hate to see one bike taking up a whole car space.

p1: I believe motorcyclists are not required to pay and display.

Anyway regarding the Canberra Centre “motorcycle” parking. I noticed it the other day too blocked with bollards. For a start I think you will find that the roads under the canberra centre are still “closed roads” while the construction work around there is completed. So technically, unless you’re a construction worker you’re breaking the law by even riding your motorcycle through there..

It was never designated for motorcyclists in the first place from the lack of signposting, so i’m guessing that they’re preparing to open that road and create short stay parking like all of the other street parking around there. Why not ring canberra centre management and ask? I think you will find they still conrtol that area, and you’re more likely to get an answer out of them than you are getting one out of the minister for useless!

What is the go for motorcycle parking in “pay and display” carparks in the ACT? If you wish to occupy a space, are you required to “display” the ticket? Because that may be a logistical problem for most bikes… In the Canberra Centre you can just pay and take a space like everybody else, although I personally think that there should be a reduced rate due to size etc…

However what this has bought to light is the amount of bike parking in civic.
I’d be interested to see the per capita of motorcycle licences held in he ACT compared to other states… Hrmm…

captainwhorebags7:12 pm 16 Oct 07

Well in all honesty Lurch, I do think that there is a good case for free designated motorcycle parking, or at least cheaper ($2 day perhaps?) because a motorcycle does take up a lot less space.

However I don’t think you’ve get any reason to complain about an area never identified as being bike parking suddenly becoming unavailable to you.

captainwhorebags – I stand corrected.
Cars ~$650
Bikes ~$500

But certainly not 1/5th the price…

In all honesty it comes down to simple maths.
Would you rather see 5 parking spots taken up, or one?

captainwhorebags7:05 pm 16 Oct 07

Lurch, according to the Rego ACT web site

http://www.rego.act.gov.au/registrations/regofee.htm

motorcycle registration is at leas $150 cheaper (depending on engine size). If your insurance premiums are high, then that is a private matter between you and your insurer.

captainwhorebags7:00 pm 16 Oct 07

MLM: knickers definately untwisted here. I seem to have hit a nerve though. I don’t see anything in my short post that was anti-motorcycle.

I have no problems with motorcycles, I’m just bemused that someone is upset that an area they’ve annexed as motorcycle parking (even though it was never identified as such) has been fenced off. Nobody has been denied the opportunity to park their bike.

It makes no difference to me if a parking spot is occupied by a motorcycle or a car – the end result is the same. I do think that the complaint here is that the motorcyclist may have to pay for parking (oh the humanity).

If designated motorcycle parking spaces suddenly appeared, you wouldn’t hear any complaints from me.

ingeegoodbee – *sigh* And we go again….
Motorcycles:
A) take up less than a quarter of the space of a car.
B) Do a small fraction of the wear and tear to our roads.
C) Produce a small fraction of green house gases.
D) PAY THE SAME AMOUNT OF REGO/STAMP DUTY/INSURANCE AS AN SUV!

Still want to play the “It ain’t fair” card?

ingeegoodbee can you cite some examples of motorcyclists illegal parking habits? It’s pretty obvious that you don’t like motorcycles from your post but I would be interested to know where riders are parking illegally

Ingeegoodbee6:15 pm 16 Oct 07

It seems that organ-donors, sorry motorcyclists, seem to leave their bikes whereever it’s convenient anyway. What we need is greater policing of these illegal parking habits and make motorcyclists compete with everyone else for proper parking spaces.

Why don’t they just leave that road the way it was, pedestrians and bikes only?

Territory and Municipal Services

who is responsible for the roads, in and underneath parts of the CC? is it the centre or the government?

One motorcycle per car spot? Who cares most cars only have one passenger anyway, what’s the difference?

The Canberra Centre is a private operation entitled to institute whatever parking they like.

Is there something restricting you from parking in any of the car spaces, or do you deserve special treatment for some reason?

have we got a plan for you, 1 motorcycle per car parking spot may well happen and you can bet that shoppers and store owners in civic won’t be impressed by it

Mike Crowther4:27 pm 16 Oct 07

Does anyone else know of anything I am missing here?

Well a few things spring to mind.
I propose that building codes need to be amended to ensure that wherever public parking is to be provided in a project that:

• There be a legislated ratio of a minimum of one motorcycle for every forty car spaces provided.
• That there be no more that a five percent variation on ground slope in such a motorcycle parking area.
• The minimum width of a provided motorcycle parking space be made 1.2M…just for starters.

I only discovered that space blocked off yesterday myself. I’ve never been comfortable leaving my bike in the aforementioned lane (which is only a few meters from junkie Central.)

For some reason successive governments have viewed provision of services to bike riders as an afterthought rather than part of town planning.

captainwhorebags

1) We take up a whole lot less physical space, requiring less gov resources for parking. You could probably park every ACT registered motorbike in just one of the Canberra Centre multi-level carparks.
2) We’re environmentally friendly, although tree-hugging on a motorcycle does tend to be rather fatal.
3) We do a lot less physical damage to the roads because we’re small and light (the bikes if not all of the riders).
4) An accident with a motorbike is mostly going to damage only the motorbike, which is good for CTP premiums.
5) We even have the decency to have a high level of fatalities in crashes. After all, a road scraper is a lot cheaper to operate than an emergency department.
6) As Lurch mentioned, you’d probably get your knickers in a twist if all of the car spots were taken up by little motorbikes and scooters.

So you would rather see one motorcycle taking up a whole car parking space?

captainwhorebags3:35 pm 16 Oct 07

Is there something restricting you from parking in any of the car spaces, or do you deserve special treatment for some reason?

yay riotact!

“….and any other bit of pavement in Civic?”

Umm.. because footpath parking in the ACT is a bookable offence!

“Yeah, it was never yours to begin with, so you can’t really complain that it has been taken away.”

So the fact that almost every motorcycle rider in civic does/has used it as such since it has opened and no one has ever said differently is irrelevant?

Does anyone else know of anything I am missing here?

Yeah, it was never yours to begin with, so you can’t really complain that it has been taken away.

What is the difference between this bit of road and any other bit of pavement in Civic?

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