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Canberra men don’t want to be teachers

By johnboy 10 October 2010 220

The Canberra Times notes that the ACT has the lowest percentage of male teachers in Australia and that number’s dropping.

The Department of Education and Training’s 2009-10 annual report showed government schools had even fewer men than the territory overall, with the ratio of male to female staff at 22per cent to 78per cent, which has remained constant for the past two years.

However, in spite of the imbalance, the department has no plan to encourage more men into the ranks of teaching.

”The DET’s focus is on recruiting quality teachers, rather than specifically targeting men,” a spokesman said.

Anyone want to speculate as to why?


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Canberra men don’t want to be teachers
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STOLEN CAR 8:03 pm 14 Nov 10

bd84 said :

p1 said :

Inappropriate said :

It’s simple: shit pay, poor career progression, and the constant threat of being labelled a kiddy-fiddler.

These are the three biggest reasons I didn’t go into teaching.

Just add in the political correct world gone mad that censors the curriculum to the useless topics and creates a system that prevents teachers from being able to properly control and discipline the students.

Above are all spot on comments…

You could also add in a system where teachers are not supported but are instead kept on the revolving door of contract employment… see today’s Canberra Times link here:

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/news/local/news/general/five-years-on-teacher-steps-off-treadmill-of-impermanence/1996692.aspx

Andrew BARR … your comments please ?

Please don’t tell us that you value education but can’t see the link to supporting teachers that this might entail ?

http://www.det.act.gov.au/minister

Andrew Barr.
Phone: (02) 6205 0011
Fax: (02) 6205 0157
Email: barr@act.gov.au

Gerry-Built said :

shadow boxer said :

shadow boxer said :
Nah, it was vague because you didn’t want to post the fact teachers get 12 weeks paid holidays a year where, according to an earlier post from a teacher, they may get called in for up to 5 days personal development.

You need to re-read previous posts and re-educate yourself on this issue. Teachers don’t have 12 weeks above what everyone else gets.

12 weeks class free;
remove 4 weeks for annual leave (a right enjoyed by all F/T workers). Of the remaining ‘stand down’; remove 5/6 *mandatory* days PD (1 or 2x DET Priority, 2x School Priority, 1x Faculty Priority and 1x Personal; now remove up to 10 days of Public Holidays (2010 has been unusual, as all but 4 days PH fell outside School Breaks – but usually Easter and ANZAC day are within School Holidays)

Therefore *at maximum*, the additional weeks equate to 6. That is ‘fact’ – absolutely verifiable on the DET or AEU ACT websites. Given the work teachers undertake, the pace and stress faced, those 6 weeks are one of the perks of the job (and definitely does not mean no-one else experience similar in their own work environments). Each job has its own perks, and its own problems, but note that those 6 weeks are not enough “luxury” to counter the negatives enough to either attract enough high quality applicants, nor sustain most of the high quality applicants in teaching careers beyond 10 years (Canberra Times today).

Perpetuating the myth that teachers have 12 weeks holidays, simply because we get 12 weeks without directly facing our classes, is a cop out on your part, and wa-ay too simplistic an argument to refute with fact. An increasing majority of a teachers job is undertaken away from the classroom, and some of that is undertaken outside of the school environment.

Neither financial incentive, nor 6 weeks additional leave, has been enough to attract and retain enough teachers to the profession (world-wide). In the ACT, the local government has devalued the profession by painting us as trouble-makers in the public eye simply for refusing to trade off work conditions or negatively affect our students conditions, and using negative language against us, such as “attracting better quality teachers” (giving the impression none already exist) – and some of that mud has stuck, as evidenced by attitudes such as yours and Mr Knox’s.

Don’t waste your time. John Knox is not interested in facts, his illinformed opinion is the only thing that matters.

Tooks 9:45 am 25 Oct 10

I looked at a table of teacher salaries the other day and they are way underpaid in my opinion. Very difficult job, especially for high school teachers.

Jethro 8:21 am 25 Oct 10

Weekend just gone there was a Canberra Times article about teaching conditions and projected retention rates of new teachers in the ACT system.

Link is here: http://www.canberratimes.com.au/news/local/news/general/new-act-teachers-ready-to-ditch-job/1977310.aspx

Gerry-Built 11:45 pm 24 Oct 10

shadow boxer said :

shadow boxer said :
Nah, it was vague because you didn’t want to post the fact teachers get 12 weeks paid holidays a year where, according to an earlier post from a teacher, they may get called in for up to 5 days personal development.

You need to re-read previous posts and re-educate yourself on this issue. Teachers don’t have 12 weeks above what everyone else gets.

12 weeks class free;
remove 4 weeks for annual leave (a right enjoyed by all F/T workers). Of the remaining ‘stand down’; remove 5/6 *mandatory* days PD (1 or 2x DET Priority, 2x School Priority, 1x Faculty Priority and 1x Personal; now remove up to 10 days of Public Holidays (2010 has been unusual, as all but 4 days PH fell outside School Breaks – but usually Easter and ANZAC day are within School Holidays)

Therefore *at maximum*, the additional weeks equate to 6. That is ‘fact’ – absolutely verifiable on the DET or AEU ACT websites. Given the work teachers undertake, the pace and stress faced, those 6 weeks are one of the perks of the job (and definitely does not mean no-one else experience similar in their own work environments). Each job has its own perks, and its own problems, but note that those 6 weeks are not enough “luxury” to counter the negatives enough to either attract enough high quality applicants, nor sustain most of the high quality applicants in teaching careers beyond 10 years (Canberra Times today).

Perpetuating the myth that teachers have 12 weeks holidays, simply because we get 12 weeks without directly facing our classes, is a cop out on your part, and wa-ay too simplistic an argument to refute with fact. An increasing majority of a teachers job is undertaken away from the classroom, and some of that is undertaken outside of the school environment.

Neither financial incentive, nor 6 weeks additional leave, has been enough to attract and retain enough teachers to the profession (world-wide). In the ACT, the local government has devalued the profession by painting us as trouble-makers in the public eye simply for refusing to trade off work conditions or negatively affect our students conditions, and using negative language against us, such as “attracting better quality teachers” (giving the impression none already exist) – and some of that mud has stuck, as evidenced by attitudes such as yours and Mr Knox’s.

gp 7:48 pm 24 Oct 10

For what it’s worth:

I am male, 12 years teaching in the primary classroom in ACT. I get to work by 8am and leave at 5ish. I usually do an hour or more most evenings marking, planning and data entry. I work half a day each weekend on average. At reports time, weekends are a distant memory (like this weekend!). Holidays… I spend 3 days working each term break, a week of my own time at Christmas break and the mandated 4-5 days PD at schools. We are also mandated to do a day of our own time over the year. These times are common for most teachers in ACT.

I average 1/2 an hour break from 8-5 most days. Some days less.

I love being a teacher, however the conditions are sometimes a little hectic. I think what wears many teachers out is the non-stop pace during the workday, where most teachers feel the need to almost run between areas of the school knowing the little kids could get into some serious strife if not kept very busy. We also take ourselves very seriously… sometimes too much. 🙂

Sadly, another tiring part of teaching is the frequent need to guide others, all day, to choose the correct behaviours, knowing the need to do it again later, or the next day, and the next, at the same time knowing parents often do not pass on the same values that we try to instill in the students.

When standdown rolls around, most teachers are simply worn out. Most parents comment on wanting school back to take a break from their own children! Times that by 25 and then you do feel a little tired.

Being male, kids and parents both assume the best insult is to imply that I am gay and a kiddy fiddler. I’m not, but all it takes over a career is one disgruntled little kid to make a comment to get back at you for sending them to time out. This is by far the biggest concern of any male teacher. I joined the union just for the legal assistance I would need.

Rant almost over. Teaching is great, sign up. The intrinsic rewards are great, the money not so much, but all teachers know that before they start. Holidays are nice, but much needed. I, for one, would put in more time if the pay were greater. A bit of fence sitting there.

Spend a day in a school, as an adult. Further your education.

georgesgenitals 6:28 pm 24 Oct 10

Jim Jones said :

JohnKnox said :

When Im at work Im actually working. I myself have no time to go to coffees and I get about ½ for lunch most days.

Certainly seems as if you’ve got plenty of time to spend on the internet, though.

Maybe he’s on school holidays?

Jim Jones 5:22 pm 24 Oct 10

JohnKnox said :

When Im at work Im actually working. I myself have no time to go to coffees and I get about ½ for lunch most days.

Certainly seems as if you’ve got plenty of time to spend on the internet, though.

Mr Evil 4:43 pm 24 Oct 10

All teechers is dum, and they get payed enuff allredy!

I wouldn’t be a teacher for all the money in the world – but that’s mainly because I would be liable to throttle some of the little turds they have to put up with during their day at work. For that reason alone, I have no problem with teachers getting more than four weeks annual leave each year.

My personal opinion is that sadly teaching, like nursing, is a much undervalued profession in this world where nowadays someone who can cook cous cous in 250 different ways and plate a sparrow’s wing and glazed Kumquat nicely are held in such high regard.

The other problem with teaching is that too many parents expect teachers to rectify issues in their children that they are either too damn lazy or stupid to fix themselves.

Yes, there are some useless teachers around; but then there are also some useless public servants/pilots/politicians/doctors/plumbers/electricians/etc as well.

shadow boxer 3:40 pm 24 Oct 10

shadow boxer said :

“It’s not a few weeks, we all know it and the fact you couldn’t bring yourself to post the actual figure and chose to vague it up speaks volumes”

One of my early posts (#39) on this thread outlined that exact point… if it was too vague for you (vague only because it changes slightly from year to year – except for the 4 weeks annual leave in Jan. – which is a worker’s legal right enjoyed by most employees in Australia), let me know and I will happily post a detailed explanation of the PD and Public Holidays from 2009, 2010 and 2011 school years. Here at your insistence – by my calculation, at most, 6 weeks extra; well and truly justifiable given the work hours and conditions (Yes – not an “actual figure” but it changes, within a few days, from year to year).

Nah, it was vague because you didn’t want to post the fact teachers get 12 weeks paid holidays a year where, according to an earlier post from a teacher, they may get called in for up to 5 days personal development.

No other occupation gets that sort of luxury…. teaching is important and i’m sure reasonably difficult at the high school level but is teaching ants in the apple year after year really so hard it requires special forces style R and R ?

Good luck to you but seriously this working stiff isn’t buying it.

Grotto 7:34 am 24 Oct 10

JohnKnox said :

“teachers are hard done by and should be put on a pedestal for all to worship”

Clamber down from your pedestal for a moment JohnKnox and dribble on about something you actually know about.

Gerry-Built 12:45 am 24 Oct 10

JohnKnox said :

Wow Gerry – such anger in your posts. What gives?

The length of my response to your single post was why I didn’t go back through all your posts and respond to every incredulous, self-righteous or indeed insensitive thing you said. In fact, I didn’t even respond to everything in that post.

I had no anger in my responses; I clearly formulated and articulated arguments against statements you made, which, in my experience (HS teacher, Public System) have painted the teaching profession in a manner that is perpetuating myth. You choose to paint them as “fact” (which they absolutely are not – hence “bull!” – okay let’s tone that down to “untrue” or “I’m afraid I do not believe that, and to counter it, I offer…”), because your ‘teacher friends’ “told you so” (hence, their, and your; “opinion”). I am not the only teacher who has posted here to tell you that you’re wrong (at least for the majority of teachers, who act professionally and consistently improve their Curriculum. You have an opinion that teachers are paid about right for what they do. Your experience of what teachers do is not holistically true – just trying to establish that for you. I have not been “bitching and moaning” about it, but pointing out the inaccuracies of your argument. I have not personally attacked you, but I have noted you have extremely thin skin, calling foul everytime someone disagrees with you (ie #149). Neither have I said “shut up…”, that was your own interpretation. I also never said that Teachers should be paid like Doctors… wow! you certainly do a lot of interpretation of peoples’ comments, but really are quick to cry foul when someone does that to you. Saying someone is not “typical” (which, if I remember right, was your own wording) does not equate to “abnormal”. Putting “Teacher Friends” in quotes didn’t deny their existence – it was a quote from your post. Stop interpreting… please! I put time into deliberately choosing my words, and articulate my arguments clearly and carefully (at least on long, considered posts such as this one)- and I’ve allowed you the same privilege, trying not to resort to misinterpretation, anger and name calling.

shadow boxer said :

It’s not a few weeks, we all know it and the fact you couldn’t bring yourself to post the actual figure and chose to vague it up speaks volumes

One of my early posts (#39) on this thread outlined that exact point… if it was too vague for you (vague only because it changes slightly from year to year – except for the 4 weeks annual leave in Jan. – which is a worker’s legal right enjoyed by most employees in Australia), let me know and I will happily post a detailed explanation of the PD and Public Holidays from 2009, 2010 and 2011 school years. Here at your insistence – by my calculation, at most, 6 weeks extra; well and truly justifiable given the work hours and conditions (Yes – not an “actual figure” but it changes, within a few days, from year to year).

Gerry-Built said :

JohnKnox said :

But still free training provided by your employer is a pretty good deal wouldn’t you say?

No – actually, in this country, it is a legal obligation of your employer.

It’s called the “Training Guarantee Act (1990)” and obligates your (meaning everyones’ – to the best of my knowledge) employer to spend money on training staff. You (meaning you, JohnKnox) should get to know your rights at work – because you might be missing out some that many people have fought hard to earn for you in the past. It is a good deal – but one enjoyed by every employee (covered by the Act).

Additionally, all Australian workers (to the best of my knowledge) have a legal right to 4 weeks leave, annually. Who is it that works 51 weeks, without Public Hols?

Finally, (especially for JohnKnox); I’ve no anger toward you. Indeed, If I was introduced to you tomorrow (or later today as it turns out), I’d harbour no resentment toward you at all (in all sincerity), because I agree you have a right to your opinion. But in having that right, you also have a responsibility to accept any retorts (including mine), especially if the case you present is based on spurious opinions, arguments and claims, with little basis in fact.

Don’t feel that you need to drop this argument, accept that there is a retort to your understandings of the profession I am in, and be open to correction over your assumptions of things like 12 weeks leave. I don’t doubt that you think teachers are paid what you think they deserve – given your understandings of the profession. But understand that what you think is based on some incorrect assumptions. On the other hand,(at least some of) what I have said is fact – in the pure sense, because they can actually be *verified*.

Thumper 9:10 pm 23 Oct 10

wow.. that has to be the longest post i’ve ever read, which means that it is crap. Seriously, if you can’t get your point across in a couple of paragraphs then your point is mute.

Aprat from the fact that you most obviously know nothing about teaching, which you’ve amply shown throughout this thread.

shadow boxer 7:45 pm 23 Oct 10

Good post Gerry Built but you let yourself down with this bit

JohnKnox said :

“they don’t work the same quantity of hours as the majority of the rest of the workforce.”

Out of all the jobs I have experienced, the teaching profession is by far the busiest – and the trade off of having a few weeks in addition to those enjoyed by other workers is well justified

It’s not a few weeks, we all know it and the fact you couldn’t bring yourself to post the actual figure and chose to vague it up speaks volumes

JohnKnox 5:16 pm 23 Oct 10

Gerry-Built said :

Gerry-Built said :

JohnKnox said :

Well obviously you dont know me. Because I actually know a number of people in the teaching profession. That’s where my facts come from.

Feel free to share with us all, some of the ‘facts’ of the luxurious conditions your teacher friends are have regaled you with…

…so go ahead… regale away… ‘facts’ aplenty…

Read my other posts and you will find the answer to this.

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