28 July 2008

Canberra Times joins the torch-weilding anti-dingo mob

| johnboy
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Odd story in the Canberra Times fretting about huge packs of super-dingos maruading out of Namadgi National Park to wreak havoc upon the good honest farming folk who border the park.

Because farmers have never exaggerated to justify an eradication program?

Oh no! Never!

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I can’t believe I made that typo…

Bred, not ‘bread’ 😉

at least you got a rise….

Clown Killer said :

peterh – are you aware of any references for the claim that humans were responsible for the extinction of the megafauna? I’d be interested that’s all.

there are some middens in areas near lake eyre show diprotodon bones, as do areas in qld and the NT. diprotodon were like a rhino without the horn, and probably had no means of defence against the aboriginals.

controlled burns also accounted for several different species, and there were other species of bird, animal and reptile that we don’t seem to be able to account for. there are fossil traces for some, then there is a period where there is nothing, except for a layer of ash. The best people to speak to (if you can) are some of the communities near katherine. they still believe that the bunyip is a diprotodon.

Clown Killer10:53 am 29 Jul 08

peterh – are you aware of any references for the claim that humans were responsible for the extinction of the megafauna? I’d be interested that’s all.

Dingos are the direct descendents of Asian Wild dogs, brought here by Asian seafarers some 4,500 BP while trepanging.

The Asian wild dog was used as a companion animal and as a food source, given that it could survive on a diet of fish, something a dingo can do today.

The dingo also out competed the tasmanian Tiger driving it to extinction given that the dingo was a much more efficient predator and scavenger. Thus Thylacines were reduced to living on tasmania where the dingo never reached, due to the fact the land bridge from the mainland to tasmania flooded some 8,000 years previous to the dingos arrival.

Thunper, the thylacine decline was never proven to be the work of the dingos, they had different hunting habits, and dingos had been in the australian mainland some 500 years prior to the thylacine’s demise. Dingos hunt by day, Thylacines hunted at night.

The actual cause of the decline is still being debated, it is believed that there were other factors involved, one of which was the change of large herbivores like the giant kangaroo & the diprotodon. After the arrival of the current indigenous peoples – who wiped out the diprotodon and the giant kangaroo, and were known to hunt the thylacines as well. It may be that the dingo had a contributing factor to play, but it was not the overall killer of the thylacines.

Clown Killer10:16 am 29 Jul 08

Peterh and Thumper, you’re probably right, but I’ve always used a simpler test. You can tell if two animals belong to the same species by the fact that they produce fertile off-spring when they breed. The technicalities of nomenclature prevail but in the end, in my book at least – a dog is a dog is a dog.

You’re right about the mess they make Thumper, and it’s never a pleasant job to have to destroy livestock that have been mauled.

One thing though, I’d disagree that the problem is far worse now than in times past. My father can recall getting eight dingoes/dogs in one night during the early 50s using a horse carcass laced with strychnine – I reckon you’d be pretty lucky if you got the same result these days.

Clown Killer said :

Having grown upon rural properties in the Victorian high country and then later in my 20s in NSW in Paupong bordering the Kosciuszko National Park I’ve seen my share of wild dog problems.

Some interesting observations I’ve made over that time include:

Wild dogs that are definately known to live in National Parks (according to my neighbours)will cross through several properties stocked with tasty young lambs to wreak havoc on some hapless pastoralists ewes 45km from the park boundary, night after night – that’s a fact.

Wild dogs belong to the species canis familiaris

Dingos, on the other hand, belong to the species canis familiaris

dingos do not belong to the species canis lupus familiaris, they belong to the species Canis lupus dingo.

they are thought to be a decendant of the Iranian Wolf (Canis lupus pallipes), and the dingo species exists in asia as well as australia. They have significant differences to domestic dogs, for example, no dewclaws, and have been estimated to be in australia for about 3,500 – 4000 years.

Headbonius said :

Yes, they are. Shit Tins of feral dogs roaming Namadgi National Park along with effen Brumbies and Wild Pigs. With the dogs and pigs leaving the park at will to kill and maim live stock. BTW the dogs are as much Dingo as I am Indigenous. With your comment of Too Bad, you could leave your job as RiotAct editor and gfet a job with Parks ACT. That is their Business Motto. Good job JB.

thanks headbonius, I am glad that someone else has made the distinction. the dingos are not interested in coming close to man, they are happy feasting on the bountiful roos.

wild dogs, on the other hand, will attack anything that moves as the pack fans out. I have seen boars with multiple bite marks, and dead dogs around them, that would point to either a pack hitting a herd of pigs or the boar alone. either way, the dogs may have killed the boar, but he took a few with him.

I have sighted on a large black shaggy dog, it was huge. .308 brought him down, hole in one eye, mess at the back. dead. still enough life left (still cannot believe it was possible)to start crawling towards me. my mate took out his other eye.

I have seen atrocities on both sheep and roos. sheep with their legs broken, the ground kicked up where they obviously tried to scrabble away, before the dogs tore them to shreds. roos with their legs eaten away, leaving the roo alive and in agony. we would put them down. this kind of thing makes you sick, I know I was on several occasions.

wild dogs, ferals, need to be eradicated. they cannot be tamed, they must be destroyed.
if they were “tamed”, would you let them near your kids? no way.

Clown Killer10:19 pm 28 Jul 08

Having grown upon rural properties in the Victorian high country and then later in my 20s in NSW in Paupong bordering the Kosciuszko National Park I’ve seen my share of wild dog problems.

Some interesting observations I’ve made over that time include:

Wild dogs that are definately known to live in National Parks (according to my neighbours)will cross through several properties stocked with tasty young lambs to wreak havoc on some hapless pastoralists ewes 45km from the park boundary, night after night – that’s a fact.

Wild dogs belong to the species canis familiaris

Dingos, on the other hand, belong to the species canis familiaris

The amount of grief a farmer is prepared to stick into the local land management agencies is directly related to the amount of hand holding the local opposition member / candidate is prepared to put in.

On our properties we managed our livestock and the pest animals and we never had cause for whinging or trying to place blame elsewhere. Although we were close to national parks, we didn’t have them as direct neighbour but unlike the pastoralists around us we diddn’t blame them for stock loss when it happened, we simply did somthing about it when it happened.

Actually Sepi a very good use of the mongrels. Nothing creepy about it at all. I’m sure JB could recommend an excellent Soy Meat restuarant for you.

Wee Jasper general store sells feral dog hides – pretty creepy.

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy9:39 pm 28 Jul 08

Nothing that a noisy mob of charnwood bogans armed with shotty’s couldn’t fix…

Yes, they are. Shit Tins of feral dogs roaming Namadgi National Park along with effen Brumbies and Wild Pigs. With the dogs and pigs leaving the park at will to kill and maim live stock. BTW the dogs are as much Dingo as I am Indigenous. With your comment of Too Bad, you could leave your job as RiotAct editor and gfet a job with Parks ACT. That is their Business Motto. Good job JB.

Gosh so after the hundreds of years of crying wolf (literally) they’re actually telling the truth this time?

Too bad.

Johnboy wrote “Nothing stopping the farmers eradicating the wild dogs on their property is there?”

Great insight JB……..NOT. I grew up on the land, bordering Kozi Nat Park. I know what a problem feral dogs are. They are smart, cunning and vicious, unlike many RA posters. The ACT Governemtn is ducking the problem. Where you have a large city borering the bush the problem is exacerbated tenfold with dogs running wild. These things are unwanted pests and should be eradicated. I have previously found a 120 grain softpoint boat tail doing about 2800fps to provide the required amount of medicine. Go back to your fake soy meat and don’t provide insight on a problem that you clearly don’t understand.

plausibly_deniable5:57 pm 28 Jul 08

I’ve camped near Yankee Hat and the dogs (definitely feral, definitely not afraid of anything) are everywhere. I wouldn’t like to have to deal with a pack of twenty. Some family with small kids will go out there and there will be a tragedy.

Ahhh… so the distinction is wild (meaning native) or feral (not native).

I can’t help but wonder about inter-breading in those populations and therefore a big blurring of the distinction.

Everyone has to live with the ups and downs of their neighbours. In this case the neighbours are a NP. It could be a mine or a airport or a dragstrip or another farm. Each would have its pros and cons.

p1 said :

Mr Watkinson maintained the wild dogs were valuable as the top predator in the Namadgi food chain to keep down kangaroo numbers.

This seems a bit odd. Shouldn’t the population of feral dogs be reduced so that natural processes control the ‘roo population?

feral dogs, yes. Dingos, no.

Mr Watkinson maintained the wild dogs were valuable as the top predator in the Namadgi food chain to keep down kangaroo numbers.

This seems a bit odd. Shouldn’t the population of feral dogs be reduced so that natural processes control the ‘roo population?

NoAddedMSG said :

peterh said :

more concerned with whatever was killing sheep and tearing them in half. the spoor around didn’t show claws, so wasn’t dogs. don’t know what it was. it was tearing their throats out, and then gutting them.

very scary thing to find, and then my rifle was my new best friend.

What are you trying to imply? Aliens? Panther? Giant Eagle?

no idea. probably a big cat, but I never saw any thing, just found the bodies or what was left of them in the morning when we drove the boundary.

JB – Knocking them off your property is a short term solution. Yes you can do it but you might be lucky and get two in a night. Then they move on to another property – and it isn’t until they come back and knock off 30 or 40 sheep in a night that you know they have returned.

They thrive in the park because they are allowed to. And they are not dingos – they would be lucky to have 1/128 dingo in them…

A few dingos in the park is not a problem – however the current situation is nothing like 100 years ago and these dogs are nothing like what was reported 100 years ago.

Why not stake out a lamb in the middle of a paddock and wait with the shotgun? If the problem is as bad as it sounds, you will get a couple each night…

that or 1080…

After their yeti yarn today, I hoped the Canberra Times might try to find a local angle there.

peterh said :

more concerned with whatever was killing sheep and tearing them in half. the spoor around didn’t show claws, so wasn’t dogs. don’t know what it was. it was tearing their throats out, and then gutting them.

very scary thing to find, and then my rifle was my new best friend.

What are you trying to imply? Aliens? Panther? Giant Eagle?

ok, we aren’t talking about the holy grail here, if that is what you mean (bluecoat won’t let me see youtube)

peterh said :

Corner them, or threaten their young, and they will attack. (what wild animal won’t? apart from rabbits)

*cough*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcxKIJTb3Hg

more concerned with whatever was killing sheep and tearing them in half. the spoor around didn’t show claws, so wasn’t dogs. don’t know what it was. it was tearing their throats out, and then gutting them.

very scary thing to find, and then my rifle was my new best friend.

they aren’t dingos. Dingos are not roaming namadgi and coming out to attack sheep. They are wild dogs. seen several over the years, and they are most definitely not dingos.

the dingos that are there are friendly, and will take scraps from morons who think that wild animals can be fed and then left alone. they will follow you, but they are only after a few scraps. ignore them, they will leave you alone. Corner them, or threaten their young, and they will attack. (what wild animal won’t? apart from rabbits)

wild dogs, however, will go after you / force you to climb a tree.

they don’t always look like dingos and they are always very nasty.

after doing boundary repairs on a property that borders the park, I can definitely tell the difference.

Yep I’ve seen it.

Also read the accounts about it all the way back to federation.

Not convinced there’s anything new here, but the history of farmers demanding veto over neighbouring national park management goes back nearly as far.

Nothing stopping the farmers eradicating the wild dogs on their property is there?

JB – you need to go out and see what a dog pack does to a mob of sheep. The tree huggers continue to deny that there’s a problem – but when landholders are losing hundreds of sheep a year something needs to be done.

Hippies are happy to jump up and down about muelsing but are too gutless to do anything about the atrocious killings that wild dogs inflict on sheep. It is a horribly way to die and the sooner an effective wild dog management plan is put in place the better.

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