Canberra truckie unluckiest man no longer on earth

Yesterday Bankstown Local Court heard that Mahmoud Marian, 26, of Georges Hall, was one of the men at the shooting scene. He allegedly fled police in a Honda which reached speeds of up to 126km/h in a 50km/h zone.

Marian was refused bail and his case was adjourned to July 16.

It is believed his brother Moustapha, 25, suffered gunshot wounds as did another man, aged 26.

sounds like the work of brainless morons with absolutely no regard for public safety……..whatever nationality they were

Sounds like the work of lebs

Too right.. I mean only Lebanese people have fingers huh, just has to be them

Sounds like the work of lebs.

I got my beautiful German Shepherd from Bob & Jeanette. Absolutely lovely people.

RIP Bob 🙁

Yes, what Art said 🙁

The NSW Crimes Act:

18 Murder and manslaughter defined

(1)

(a) Murder shall be taken to have been committed where the act of the accused, or thing by him or her omitted to be done, causing the death charged, was done or omitted with reckless indifference to human life, or with intent to kill or inflict grievous bodily harm upon some person, or done in an attempt to commit, or during or immediately after the commission, by the accused, or some accomplice with him or her, of a crime punishable by imprisonment for life or for 25 years.

(b) Every other punishable homicide shall be taken to be manslaughter.

(2)

(a) No act or omission which was not malicious, or for which the accused had lawful cause or excuse, shall be within this section.

(b) No punishment or forfeiture shall be incurred by any person who kills another by misfortune only.

I agree, Art. It was so very brave of him to think of others at such a traumatic time. I’m terribly sorry for the loss of your mate, canberratowie2.

This could have been so much worse. He somehow, by some miracle, managed to pull the truck over. Gosh knows it could have been so easy with those injuries to lose control and smash into other vehicles. We could easily be reading about the death of a whole family today, many more people. Instead, we mourn the tragic loss of this individual and salute his remarkable actions that prevented further loss of life.

Skidbladnir said :

As wonderful as I’m sure it is for his family to have anonymous people trying to work out the chances of anyone intentionally being able to repeat the fluke event that killed their husband\father\grandfather, maybe the same day, in a public forum catering to the community that they live in isn’t the most appropriate venue to encourage people to work out the maths?

+2

ant said :

The SMH has a report on it too:
http://www.smh.com.au/national/kfc-car-park-shooting-innocent-bystander-killed-20090626-cyeq.html

He sounds like he was a really decent bloke. Killed by useless criminals.

Perhaps it’s about time decent blokes starting killing the criminals. We need a Taxi Driver to wash away all the filth from our streets. Either that or a real life Dexter.

I think it’s a little early to conclude corruption has affected this matter. I suspect Dr Karl (#43) may be more motivated by shenanigans than the pursuit of truth.

Seriously, I personally know a man who knew the victim closely and paid him a tribute in the news which tells me this truckie was a contributor to our society and someone to be admired. I am quite saddened by this event.

Beirut #44 it already exists

They should create places where these dkheads can go to shoot each other dead in an environment that wouldn’t effect any decent peoples’ lives.

The Police and State Labor Government in NSW are Corrupt and have allowed organized crime to get to a point where it affects Innocent members of the public. Underbelly 3, 4, 5…….Tale of one City going to hell.

Skidbladnir said :

As wonderful as I’m sure it is for his family to have anonymous people trying to work out the chances of anyone intentionally being able to repeat the fluke event that killed their husband\father\grandfather, maybe the same day, in a public forum catering to the community that they live in isn’t the most appropriate venue to encourage people to work out the maths?

+1.

Joshua said :

#31 p1, self-defence will be an issue because in NSW the only way they’ll get him for murder is under the Crimes Act, and if you fire a weapon recklessly in self defence and kill a bystander you still fired in self defence. Given the 1 in a billion likelihood of hitting someone with a pistol in a moving vehicle there’s no chance they can say it was deliberate. Trust me as someone who’s been under fire on UN peacekeeping operations it takes a lot of nerve and training (learned responses) to fire accurately when someone is trying to shoot you. Mostly you’re just unloading your weapon to stop them shooting.

Of course the police will get whoever did it on weapons carry charges but that’s like a slap over the wrist for these sort of crims.

Please note I am in no way condoning the carrying of illegal weapons and this man’s relatives and friends have my heartfelt condolences. I’ve just been pointing out that without all the facts there is no point leaping to conclusions. I’d point out that Mick Gatto a known crim gunned a man down in a crowded pizza restaurant in Melbourne and walked on the grounds of self defence.

All I was saying is that he/they will have some “splainin” to do to claim self defence. But I do agree that Murder is going to be remote. Manslaughter, Yes.

As wonderful as I’m sure it is for his family to have anonymous people trying to work out the chances of anyone intentionally being able to repeat the fluke event that killed their husband\father\grandfather, maybe the same day, in a public forum catering to the community that they live in isn’t the most appropriate venue to encourage people to work out the maths?

RIP Bobby I’ll never forget you

#31 p1, self-defence will be an issue because in NSW the only way they’ll get him for murder is under the Crimes Act, and if you fire a weapon recklessly in self defence and kill a bystander you still fired in self defence. Given the 1 in a billion likelihood of hitting someone with a pistol in a moving vehicle there’s no chance they can say it was deliberate. Trust me as someone who’s been under fire on UN peacekeeping operations it takes a lot of nerve and training (learned responses) to fire accurately when someone is trying to shoot you. Mostly you’re just unloading your weapon to stop them shooting.

Of course the police will get whoever did it on weapons carry charges but that’s like a slap over the wrist for these sort of crims.

Please note I am in no way condoning the carrying of illegal weapons and this man’s relatives and friends have my heartfelt condolences. I’ve just been pointing out that without all the facts there is no point leaping to conclusions. I’d point out that Mick Gatto a known crim gunned a man down in a crowded pizza restaurant in Melbourne and walked on the grounds of self defence.

Just carrying a gun in public should automatically earn you 5-10 years jail regardless of what you do with it (obviously I exclude people whose job requires them to lawfully be armed). There is no justification for going around armed unless you are intending to harm people.

caf said :

I don’t like self-defence excuses either as the winner of the fight is typically the only one left alive to tell the story, regardless of whether or not they were at fault.

I believe self-defence is a affirmative defence, meaning the burden of proof shifts to the defendant. So it ought to need more than just their word.

Exactly and hence why he would have to explain why he had a gun in the first place.

Anyways, this is little bit pointless seeing how none of us actually knows what had occurred ….. !! Apart from 6 blokes, some shooting, and one poor bugger lost his life.

I hope the prick who did this rots in hell!

I don’t like self-defence excuses either as the winner of the fight is typically the only one left alive to tell the story, regardless of whether or not they were at fault.

I believe self-defence is a affirmative defence, meaning the burden of proof shifts to the defendant. So it ought to need more than just their word.

You’d be lucky to even hit the truck. Or rather, unlucky.

p1 said :

A very good point. How can self defence be a issue, as the dead man wasn’t a threat.

Again, condolences to the family.

Well, without wanting in any way to defend idiots blazing away in public places, they couldn’t have pulled off this shot if they’d tried.

250m with a handgun (if it was handguns which seems mostly likely), through the windscreen of a truck on the highway? I’d be surprised if *anyone* could play for that with any certainty.

As for self-defence, I think you have the kill the person who you perceive was the direct threat to you.

A very good point. How can self defence be a issue, as the dead man wasn’t a threat.

Again, condolences to the family.

ant said :

Joshua said :

#22 Spideydog, you’re assuming they turned up for a gun fight. The guy firing the lethal shot may have just been there getting KFC when someone tried to kill him.

Yes, it’s important to carry your gun when fetching KFC, in case someone tries to kill you. I hope everyone remembers their guns.

Agree 100% ant. This guy will find it hard to argue that he was just going to get KFC, oh while carrying a gun. Don’t we all do that, hence my “presumption”, yes presumption. This is not the US where every man and their dog carries a gun.

Yes, I agree that gun V gun is proportionate for self defence, but c’mon – two guys just happen to be carrying guns and just happen to get into a stouch at KFC with one of them just innocently getting some food. Thats a little hard to swallow, and I’m not talking about the KFC. I think the important question that they will need to answer, is why they had guns in the first place?

The SMH has a report on it too:
http://www.smh.com.au/national/kfc-car-park-shooting-innocent-bystander-killed-20090626-cyeq.html

He sounds like he was a really decent bloke. Killed by useless criminals.

Ozhair said :

An interesting point, jb. One assumes that these idiots were involved in a gunfight intent on killing each other. So, if you kill the person you were aiming at, it’s murder, but if you kill someone you weren’t aiming at, despite firing the weapon with the intention of killing somebody, it becomes the lesser charge of manslaughter…

Which sucks, really.

+ 1. I’m really tired of the technicalities where people are given a lesser penalty purely because they’re a bad shot. E.G: a gun is fired in a public place with the intent of killing a person. Indeed a person does die but it’s not the person the idiot with the gun was aiming at. If you kill then person you intend to kill = murder. If you miss the intended target and kill and innocent person = manslaughter at best. To me doing something with the intent of killing should be murder regardless of who actually dies. As for self-defence, I think you have the kill the person who you perceive was the direct threat to you. Couldn’t the police also charge whoever did this with carrying a weapon, discharging the weapon in a public place etc?

I don’t like self-defence excuses either as the winner of the fight is typically the only one left alive to tell the story, regardless of whether or not they were at fault.

Joshua said :

#22 Spideydog, you’re assuming they turned up for a gun fight. The guy firing the lethal shot may have just been there getting KFC when someone tried to kill him.

Yes, it’s important to carry your gun when fetching KFC, in case someone tries to kill you. I hope everyone remembers their guns.

Condolences to the drivers family and friends. What an awful tragedy. It was remarkable that he was able to stop his truck, awesome and selfless.

He has been named.

#22 Spideydog, you’re assuming they turned up for a gun fight. The guy firing the lethal shot may have just been there getting KFC when someone tried to kill him.

#21 p1. I don’t think it would matter that the weapon was illegal or his possession of it was. Using a gun to defend yourself against someone shooting at you seems to me to be a reaonable and proportionate response.

Of course this is all based on a self-defence argument, which I’m sure any compentent counsel will run for his client in this case. Personally short of the shooter having been ambushed at that KFC, I hope he spends the rest of his days in a very small cell making new shower buddies.

A question for anyone with good crim law training. If it was a stray bullet as the result of an act of self-defence, is the attacker possibly liable for murder having brought about the circumstances of the act. (I’m getting horrible flashbacks and cold sweats to lectures on causation and novus actus interveniens. God I would of thought the many years of post uni alcohol abuse would have wiped all that crap out by now).

I think it’s amazing that he was able to stop his truck. What a brave man.

Joshua said :

jb and Ozhair #18 and #19, if I remember correctly (from quite a few years ago) the NSW Crimes Act defines murder to include an act carried out with reckless indifference to human life. Shooting at someone and killing an innocent bystander will probably count.
The real barrier to a murder conviction will be if the person who shot him was acting in self defence at the time.

I wonder if transferred malice applies here ??

Two (or so) guys turn up to a gun fight with guns ….. hard to argue self defence. But you never know what these punks can dream up !!

Condolences to the drivers friends and family.

The real barrier to a murder conviction will be if the person who shot him was acting in self defence at the time.

Doesn’t self defence require some sort of reasonable force argument. Unless the person firing the shot was a cop or security guard, they had no reason to have a gun. Which means they were in the KFC car park with prior knowledge that they might use it.

Sucks to be the driver, by the way.

jb and Ozhair #18 and #19, if I remember correctly (from quite a few years ago) the NSW Crimes Act defines murder to include an act carried out with reckless indifference to human life. Shooting at someone and killing an innocent bystander will probably count.
The real barrier to a murder conviction will be if the person who shot him was acting in self defence at the time.

An interesting point, jb. One assumes that these idiots were involved in a gunfight intent on killing each other. So, if you kill the person you were aiming at, it’s murder, but if you kill someone you weren’t aiming at, despite firing the weapon with the intention of killing somebody, it becomes the lesser charge of manslaughter…

Which sucks, really.

Realistically it won’t be possible to make a murder case, so manslaughter at most with some other charges surrounding the incident as a whole?

Condolences to family and friends. And lets get real here and wrap life sentences around those involved in the shooting.

This guy is a real hero (in the true sense of the word – not in the ‘Australian sports star’ sense of the word); parking his massive truck before dying to ensure the safety of others. I hope that his final act provides at least a small glimmer of something positive for his family during this horrific time.

And it does happen yes, especially in countries where they like to celebrate by spraying their kalashnikovs into the sky.

But you’d be hard pressed to hang a dramatic plot on it unless it was for a show based on weird ways people can die.

A bullet heading at a packed train is massively more likely to find a target than one at a truck with a single occupant.

There was another one on telly where somebody fired a bullet into the air and it killed somebody standing in their driveway miles away.

This is a very sad story; condolences to his family.

The people involved in killing this man should suffer.

That is -insanely- unlucky.
According to reports, everyone involved has survived except this guy, whose name has not officially been released.

To his credit, he seems to have had enough presence of mind to pull over after being hit.
(Milperra Road is a six-lane, 80kph arterial road)
Daily Telegraph 26/06/2009, Truckie drove 200 metres after being shot

What a rotten thing to happen to what was most likely a hard working bloke. Note his age, too. I hope they get the idiots, fighting with guns in a populated area. Throw away the key.

Having shared a cab on many lengthy road trips, i will attest to our local truckies being one of the hardest working breeds in Australia.

I hope there’s some meted justice when events eventually unfold.

Postalgeek said :

Apparently he managed to pull over the double trailer semi before he died. Hats off to a heroic effort.

Indeed.

Apparently he managed to pull over the double trailer semi before he died. Hats off to a heroic effort.

jennybel75 said :

Condolances to his family.

+1

That sucks. 🙁

Wow, in Milperra?

You think they would have learned a thing or two there…http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milperra_Massacre

dvaey said :

Sad story, who’d think random street gunfights would happen in Australia, this is more the sort of thing we expect to hear from our friends across the pacific.

By the way, you can make this stuff up, CSI New york did a similar story last year with a guy on a train.

A bullet heading at a packed train is massively more likely to find a target than one at a truck with a single occupant.

Talk about tragically unlucky.

Sad story, who’d think random street gunfights would happen in Australia, this is more the sort of thing we expect to hear from our friends across the pacific.

By the way, you can make this stuff up, CSI New york did a similar story last year with a guy on a train.

Poor guy. That’s a real tragedy, not the death of a dodgy pop singer which seems to be what the media is focussing on. Condolances to his family.