19 April 2016

Canberra, why so wasteful?

| Kim Fischer
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stock photo tip rubbish

The ACT has been ahead of the curve when it comes to municipal waste management for almost two decades now. It was the first government in the world to set a zero waste goal all the way back in 1996.

The no waste by 2010 goal may not have been achieved, but we successfully lifted our recycling rates from 40 per cent to more than 70 per cent of our total waste steam – the highest in the country at the time. We also have the lowest litter rates per capita.

This chart from the ACT government’s updated waste management strategy shows how over the past 15 years the ACT has managed to decrease its waste levels sent to landfill annually.

Waste to landfill and recovery of waste since 1994-95.

Source: ACT Government.

The same chart also illustrates a real challenge. Our population has only increased by 16 per cent in a decade and a half while the total amount of waste generated across Canberra has grown by over 100 per cent.

In fact, per capita the ACT generates the highest amount of waste in the country. (However, it should be noted that this increase has largely come from the commercial and construction sectors, and not from households.)

The business of recovering and reselling waste products is now a significant money-earner. The most recent national statistics show that waste management organisations in Australia were paid $8.6 billion annually, with $2.4 billion in waste products shipped overseas for processing.

While it is obviously better to recover waste than to leave it in landfill, it is better still not to generate the waste in the first place. Having manufacturing processes that allow continual reuse of its materials is sometimes referred to as a “circular economy”.

For example, in the US the jeans maker Levi Strauss wants to reuse cotton from old garments in new products to eliminate its waste by 2020.

Customers are given a 20 per cent discount when purchasing a new item if they bring in an old garment for recycling. Subaru recently celebrated 10 years of zero-landfill manufacturing of cars, where all waste is either recycled or turned into electricity.

In the construction industry, there is increasingly a shift towards building deconstruction instead of demolition. Deconstruction is a process of taking a building apart with sufficient care so that the materials can be reused and recycled. As disposal charges for building materials increase, deconstruction will become normal.

This encourages innovations in modular, prefabricated building materials that are easy to assemble and disassemble. Reuse rates of 95-100% are typical when fully modular building components are used.

Lastly, no discussion of waste would be complete without looking at the option of a third bin for garden waste (grass clippings and plants) and/or organic waste (kitchen scraps) – a long-time topic of discussion for ACT residents. With around 25 per cent of waste going to landfill coming from residential sources at the moment, there is scope to do better.

A 2011 consultancy found that a third bin for green waste would be largely ineffective since the ACT already recycles more than 90% of its green waste. The same report also found that a third bin for organic waste would be much more expensive ($20m / year) than using dedicated machinery at the landfill to extract organic material from both residential and commercial waste ($8m / year).

With a separate organics bin, on average households will place no more than half of their organic waste into this third bin. So even with a third bin, the regular bin will still contain significant amounts of organic waste that go to landfill.

From this point of view it is regrettable that in 2012 the Greens and Liberals joined together to block the purchase of the specialised equipment required. As a comparatively straightforward way to reduce waste sent to landfill by half or more, it would be nice to see this put back on the agenda.

Are we doing enough to reduce our waste in the ACT? What else would you like to see done?

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Skyring said :

I love the way that a post about waste turns into a barney over trams. I guess the two concepts are forever linked in our subconscious minds. Trams = waste.

Remember the days when Rosemary Follett was running things? We had this massive debate about wheelie bins. Every other city in Australia had brought them in. Even Goulburn, just up the highway, had these cheery green bins mocking us as we drove through in those pre-bypass days. Took years before they got brought in. With a change of government, as I recall.

Why don’t we just see what works elsewhere and do what they do? World’s best practice sort of thinking.

Love to see some organic waste bins. I see them in other cities all over the world. Just not Canberra.

We can’t reduce our waste entirely. It was foolish even to try that “No Waste by 2010” thing. Just buying stuff at the shops, and half of it seems to be packaging. I’m forever ripping up corrugated cardboard boxes to jam them into my skinny bin. And even though we don’t get free plastic bags at the shop any more, I’ve still got a lot of cupboard space devoted to plastic bags. The difference now is that they are chunkier and bulkier and I have to pay for them.

Thank God I’ve got some government flats nearby. Every time the rubbish problem gets too severe after a party or Christmas or the tax cheque, I can just whip around at midnight and unload the rubbish into the communal skip, now that the Salvos have packed up their service.

+1 for organic waste bins. That was one of the original threads here!

Dame Canberra said :

Skyring said :

There was no room to fall down, we were jammed in so tight I could feel that the bloke standing next to me had a roll of Fruit Tingles in his pocket.

Are you sure they were fruit tingles?

I cannot be sure, but it is the only explanation that gives me any comfort.

I love the way that a post about waste turns into a barney over trams. I guess the two concepts are forever linked in our subconscious minds. Trams = waste.

Remember the days when Rosemary Follett was running things? We had this massive debate about wheelie bins. Every other city in Australia had brought them in. Even Goulburn, just up the highway, had these cheery green bins mocking us as we drove through in those pre-bypass days. Took years before they got brought in. With a change of government, as I recall.

Why don’t we just see what works elsewhere and do what they do? World’s best practice sort of thinking.

Love to see some organic waste bins. I see them in other cities all over the world. Just not Canberra.

We can’t reduce our waste entirely. It was foolish even to try that “No Waste by 2010” thing. Just buying stuff at the shops, and half of it seems to be packaging. I’m forever ripping up corrugated cardboard boxes to jam them into my skinny bin. And even though we don’t get free plastic bags at the shop any more, I’ve still got a lot of cupboard space devoted to plastic bags. The difference now is that they are chunkier and bulkier and I have to pay for them.

Thank God I’ve got some government flats nearby. Every time the rubbish problem gets too severe after a party or Christmas or the tax cheque, I can just whip around at midnight and unload the rubbish into the communal skip, now that the Salvos have packed up their service.

Dame Canberra3:33 pm 20 Aug 15

Skyring said :

rubaiyat said :

Do I need to post my photos of the full trams…

I used to live in Melbourne. I remember getting on a tram so well patronised that we standees didn’t need to hang onto the straps. There as no room to fall down, we were jammed in so tight I could feel that the bloke standing next to me had a roll of Fruit Tingles in his pocket.

Are you sure they were fruit tingles?

rubaiyat said :

Do I need to post my photos of the full trams…

I used to live in Melbourne. I remember getting on a tram so well patronised that we standees didn’t need to hang onto the straps. There as no room to fall down, we were jammed in so tight I could feel that the bloke standing next to me had a roll of Fruit Tingles in his pocket.

rubaiyat said :

One of the first things to great me when I first came to Canberra was my car being broken into in my driveway. They siphoned my petrol and broke the ceiling light in apparent aggravation at not finding anything else to steal.

Ah, that may have been me. Sorry.

You know what it’s like when the buses stop running and you’ve spent all your money on grog. Need to get home somehow.

dungfungus said :

“tram freighting milk…..”
I am sure this happened in the USSR concurrent with the 5 year plans.

Freight tram in Melbourne, 1957:

http://www.thecollectormm.com.au/private/FlindersLane1957.jpg

Dreadnaught19052:10 pm 20 Aug 15

dungfungus said :

“tram freighting milk…..”
I am sure this happened in the USSR concurrent with the 5 year plans.

Did I mention, Dungers, that I always enjoy your dry wit? Even when (goodness gracious!) I find myself on your side (broadly speaking, at least) of an argument.

I am pretty sure that even under the five year plans, trucks / vans and even horses and carts – as well as steam driven trains, electric trams and horse drawn trams; steam ships, windjammers and probably canal boats all played a part in the integrated logistics system.

All elements need to work together to get people and items from point to point to point. That’s the, ahem, point.

It is simply not possible to remove roads, freeways and highways in Australia and replace them. Every single item in every single shop in every single city in this country got there on a road at some point of it’s journey (or the journey of its constituent parts). I recall reading the SimCity manual in the late ’80s when the game was first released – it suggested that it might one day be possible to build a city entirely on rail. Even in the game, it wasn’t practical!

I’m not against light rail per se – but I don’t like the Capital Metro proposal. I think it is simply to expensive for what we get. If the cost of the rail from Gungahlin to Civic was less than 50% of the $783M figure in the Capital Metro Business Case, then I think I might be more interested.

Given that a quarter of the Construction Costs ($118M out of $479M) is for changing the road infrastructure to suit the light rail, then it seems to beg the question of ‘What alternative mass transport arrangements involving only the roads could be made for $120M?”

The roads aren’t going anywhere, they can’t. If we remove a significant percentage of the commuter traffic off the roads over the next x number of years, then we will need less roads, sure. But we will always need at least some roads.

The arguments suggesting that the roads are a tax burden are not entirely accurate. If the roads were wholly removed, then the tax base would be substantially weakened – logistics in Australia is responsible, indirectly or directly, for a vast amount of Government Income.

With my personal work situation, public transport isn’t an option for me – as I need to move between sites frequently throughout the day, often carrying large quantities of items with me. However, I do recognise that for a 9-5 office worker, then public transport (of some form) is probably better* than driving as a commute.

I don’t think fossil fuels are the answer in the long term (sorry Dungers, my agreeing with you had to end sometime). But if the ACT was to drop their share of the $665 million left over from Capital Metro (after, you know, we’ve spent $118 million on roads anyway) into renewable energy research, then imagine what might possibly happen!

Endless electrical power**, hydrogen fuel cells, super capacitors, commercially viable artificial photosynthesis… who knows what’s next?

*Better, as in ‘good for everyone’.
** That backyard cold fusion reactor that everyone is talking about…

rommeldog56 said :

rubaiyat said :

Blind Freddy can see where the problem is.

Just going back a few more days:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-08-07/man-killed-after-crashing-car-while-driving-in-wrong-direction/6679380

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-08-05/pedestrian-dies-after-being-hit-by-garbage-truck-in-car-park/6674316

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-08-13/man-almost-drowns-after-car-flips-into-drain/6693424

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-08-03/melbourne-police-dish-up-cold-burgers-to-speeding-driver/6666962

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-07-31/outgoing-tac-boss-police-call-for-lower-drink-drive-limit/6663254

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-07-28/call-for-removal-of-on-street-parking-in-melbourne/6653118

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-07-24/milk-sent-pouring-onto-street-after-melbourne-truck-crash/6644558

Somewhat beyond the grasp of some however.

So, u think some or all of these people would have been “saved” by the tram ?

But if u want, to be balanced, why dont you post about the numbers of people who have died in train crashes, in level crossing accidents, in bus crashes, etc. And I’ve never heard of a tram freighting milk either so that adds nothing to your argument – what ever that is.

Its poor form to use the unfortunate death of others (see #82 too) to support your views.

“tram freighting milk…..”
I am sure this happened in the USSR concurrent with the 5 year plans.

rubaiyat said :

Blind Freddy can see where the problem is.

Just going back a few more days:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-08-07/man-killed-after-crashing-car-while-driving-in-wrong-direction/6679380

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-08-05/pedestrian-dies-after-being-hit-by-garbage-truck-in-car-park/6674316

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-08-13/man-almost-drowns-after-car-flips-into-drain/6693424

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-08-03/melbourne-police-dish-up-cold-burgers-to-speeding-driver/6666962

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-07-31/outgoing-tac-boss-police-call-for-lower-drink-drive-limit/6663254

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-07-28/call-for-removal-of-on-street-parking-in-melbourne/6653118

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-07-24/milk-sent-pouring-onto-street-after-melbourne-truck-crash/6644558

Somewhat beyond the grasp of some however.

So, u think some or all of these people would have been “saved” by the tram ?

But if u want, to be balanced, why dont you post about the numbers of people who have died in train crashes, in level crossing accidents, in bus crashes, etc. And I’ve never heard of a tram freighting milk either so that adds nothing to your argument – what ever that is.

Its poor form to use the unfortunate death of others (see #82 too) to support your views.

rommeldog56 said :

rubaiyat said :

“……whilst where there is public transport there are barely any cars, just lots of well patronised trams.

Haha, you have to laugh. With spin like that, you should get a job with Canberra Metro or that Canberra Light Rail self appointed “peak transport body” for Canberra. Even they are not silly enough to make bizzare statements like that.

It’s the only possible explanation.

Here’s that “spin” you accuse me of:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-08-15/man-charged-over-minibus-crash-which-killed-two-elderly-women/6699680

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-08-16/teen-dead-two-injured-in-yarra-valley-crash/6700664

Do I need to post my photos of the full trams, main streets in Melbourne largely free from traffic thanks to the trams, and the typical overweight sole occupant driver in the 2 tonne 4WD just where I got off the tram? Just cast your eyes around you, its all there. Doesn’t take much to open your eyes and mind and think for yourself, even after a lifetime of just emoting.

switch said :

dungfungus said :

It also discriminates against colour vision impaired people.
What’s wrong with a “G” for garbage and “R” for re-cycle?

Because that would discriminate against people who don’t use the Latin alphabet?

People who don’t understand Australian should not be living here.
Colour vision deficiency affects people of all races, languages etc.

rommeldog56 said :

rubaiyat said :

“……whilst where there is public transport there are barely any cars, just lots of well patronised trams.

Haha, you have to laugh. With spin like that, you should get a job with Canberra Metro or that Canberra Light Rail self appointed “peak transport body” for Canberra. Even they are not silly enough to make bizzare statements like that.

Simple direct observation, I’ve been through most of the surrounding suburbs over the last few days by rail or tram, and also down the freeways out to Yarra Valley on a bus, where I witnessed the all too common road fatality adding to the several reported on the news. Just how blind can you be?

None of this is news to anyone who gets around, or travels to cities with extensive good public transport and actually uses it.

Your anti-tram hysteria is based on what? Being stuck in perpetual traffic and coming to the insightful conclusion that the problem isn’t the cars but the trams? Genius! The same genius that repeatedly throws up all the other childish rationalisations, misquotes, poor conclusions and logic.

The case for Light Rail in Canberra is not an open and shut case but I’ve yet to see anything from you except a bright purple face and petulant, “I DON”T WANT IT!”.

rubaiyat said :

“……whilst where there is public transport there are barely any cars, just lots of well patronised trams.

Haha, you have to laugh. With spin like that, you should get a job with Canberra Metro or that Canberra Light Rail self appointed “peak transport body” for Canberra. Even they are not silly enough to make bizzare statements like that.

We need more community based strategies like ENOVA in the Northern Rivers.

http://www.enovaenergy.com.au/

We can not rely on governments or political parties, particularly as there so many partisan individuals who will instantly get their backs up if either side initiates anything.

Want something done, do it yourself and push for as many others as you can to do the right thing.

SEE-Change is a good first step to changing rusted on mindsets:

http://www.see-change.org.au/

rommeldog56 said :

rubaiyat said :

The city is not drowning in cars or awful car parks……

Melbourne not drowning in cars ? The last few time I’ve been there (not for 12 months or so though) it has been almost grid locked at peak hour. It certainly was drowning in cars. Again, a sweeping statement that bears no resemblemce to reality except to promote some sort of tram induced fantasy land or nirvina.

“The Reality” is that the billions spent on freeways results in gridlock, whilst where there is public transport there are barely any cars, just lots of well patronised trams.

Solidarity said :

rubaiyat said :

Plus i’ve never had the person next to me pull a knife on me when driving my car.

I am in the Melbourne where just the few days I have been here a disqualified driver on ice smashed a stolen car into a mini van of elderly people killing 2 and severely injuring the rest.

Also passed a fatality on the Eastern Freeway.

Fatalities, even unkind words from the good humoured passengers on the public transport: None!

dungfungus said :

It also discriminates against colour vision impaired people.
What’s wrong with a “G” for garbage and “R” for re-cycle?

Because that would discriminate against people who don’t use the Latin alphabet?

Maya123 said :

rommeldog56 said :

ZoeRouth said :

We can start by being Individually accountable. Locals Bianca Jurd and her partner Nic are going waste free – ZERO to landfill – for a year. See their progress and tips here: http://www.wastefreeme.com

And here is me thinking this thread was about Trams. tisk….tisk….my bad.

Good to see people reducing their own waste.

I hear that the lids on the general rubbish bins for kerbside collection (and yes – until a tram can do that, we will still need a road) that were green, are progressively being changed to red coloured lids. If that is true, is that only being done if the old green lid needs to be replaced or will they all be replaced regardless ?

If the latter, why ?

While the lid is still good, I think it is a waste. Many bins were changed near me to red, but my bin missed out, because as I don’t put it out that often, it wasn’t out to get got at. A think changing the lids is a waste of resources. Silly!

It also discriminates against colour vision impaired people.
What’s wrong with a “G” for garbage and “R” for re-cycle?

rommeldog56 said :

ZoeRouth said :

We can start by being Individually accountable. Locals Bianca Jurd and her partner Nic are going waste free – ZERO to landfill – for a year. See their progress and tips here: http://www.wastefreeme.com

And here is me thinking this thread was about Trams. tisk….tisk….my bad.

Good to see people reducing their own waste.

I hear that the lids on the general rubbish bins for kerbside collection (and yes – until a tram can do that, we will still need a road) that were green, are progressively being changed to red coloured lids. If that is true, is that only being done if the old green lid needs to be replaced or will they all be replaced regardless ?

If the latter, why ?

While the lid is still good, I think it is a waste. Many bins were changed near me to red, but my bin missed out, because as I don’t put it out that often, it wasn’t out to get got at. A think changing the lids is a waste of resources. Silly!

ZoeRouth said :

We can start by being Individually accountable. Locals Bianca Jurd and her partner Nic are going waste free – ZERO to landfill – for a year. See their progress and tips here: http://www.wastefreeme.com

And here is me thinking this thread was about Trams. tisk….tisk….my bad.

Good to see people reducing their own waste.

I hear that the lids on the general rubbish bins for kerbside collection (and yes – until a tram can do that, we will still need a road) that were green, are progressively being changed to red coloured lids. If that is true, is that only being done if the old green lid needs to be replaced or will they all be replaced regardless ?

If the latter, why ?

ZoeRouth said :

We can start by being Individually accountable. Locals Bianca Jurd and her partner Nic are going waste free – ZERO to landfill – for a year. See their progress and tips here: http://www.wastefreeme.com

It seems they are getting around never sending anything to landfill by, “Anything we don’t have an answer for yet will be cleaned and stored in the garage.” And after a year if they still don’t know what to do with this, what then? Send it to landfill?
But the comment, “We can start by being Individually accountable” is a very good and true comment.
I produce MUCH less rubbish than most people, but I know I could do better. I tested myself once, and it took several months to fill the garbage bin, but still I did have things I could likely have not have had. For instance, if I had taken my own containers shopping with me, to a butcher for instance, instead of taking meat wrapped with plastic wrap at the supermarket. Things like that would be how I could reduce my rubbish further. After a certain level of rubbish reduction it does get harder to reduce those last bits. I haven’t bought a roll of plastic wrap for about twenty years, as I don’t have a use for it (I use containers with lids – easy!), but many things I buy come wrapped in plastic. Simple things, such as dried fruit. I could burn the plastic, but that adds to air pollution. The easy things to do, are composting ‘green’ waste and burying meat scraps, recycling what can be recycled, never bringing home plastic bags, whether the main carry bag, or for fruit etc. Buy even beans loose (which I do), without a bag, or in the bag you take shopping. Cut back on purchases to only what is absolutely needed. But after those easy things are done, what then? Getting rid of the remaining waste after that is hard. Even if so little waste is left over after that, that it takes many months to fill a garbage bin, there is still waste. Using the waste to make kitschy plastic hats (I’ve seen this done) is just moving the waste elsewhere.

We can start by being Individually accountable. Locals Bianca Jurd and her partner Nic are going waste free – ZERO to landfill – for a year. See their progress and tips here: http://www.wastefreeme.com

dungfungus said :

rubaiyat said :

Solidarity said :

Which Melbourne are you in? Can’t be the one in Victoria, there’s a Wilson parking garage every 50 metres here

Blatantly not true, especially when compared to Canberra where if it isn’t ugly multistorey car parks surrounding major shopping centres, the surrounds consist of broken bitumen, rubble and dirt car parking and any open greenery is open season for our car addiction.

Solidarity said :

and fat people are sweaty and everywhere.

Are you referring to the butterballs who finally manage to squeeze out of their skin tight 4WDs because it is certainly not true of most pedestrians or tram passengers.

Solidarity said :

Plus i’ve never had the person next to me pull a knife on me when driving my car.

I’ve never had a carjacking when using Public Transport, but I was assaulted in a Civic Car Park and had a car smashed into and stolen in my presence near Commonwealth Park.

One of the first things to great me when I first came to Canberra was my car being broken into in my driveway. They siphoned my petrol and broke the ceiling light in apparent aggravation at not finding anything else to steal.

What mode of pollution free transport did you use to get to Melbourne?
At least you have admitted in your latest post that you use a car.

Maths 101

Less does not equal zero.

Even much less.

… and as stated previously 100% public transport all the way.

rubaiyat said :

The city is not drowning in cars or awful car parks……

Melbourne not drowning in cars ? The last few time I’ve been there (not for 12 months or so though) it has been almost grid locked at peak hour. It certainly was drowning in cars. Again, a sweeping statement that bears no resemblemce to reality except to promote some sort of tram induced fantasy land or nirvina.

rubaiyat said :

I am currently in Melbourne which has a huge variety of forms of transport and which is the remarkably liveable and dynamic city that it is principally because of the trams.

1) Of course Melbourne has a “huge variety of forms of transport” – they have the revenue raising base of an entire State and a massive population to help pay for that. Canberra doesn’t.

2) ” which is the remarkably liveable and dynamic city that it is principally because of the trams”. So, it is trams that have a mystical power that has transformed Melbourne into a remarkably liveable & dynamic city ? Of course, there are no other contributing factors, are there. Just trams. What rubbish.

rubaiyat said :

I’ll take that as all alternative forms of transport to cars must be stopped at all costs because you can’t stomach the thought of someone doing anything different than you, even if your choice is extremely expensive and paid for by other taxpayers.

1) How can you possibly conclude that ” I’ll take that as all alternative forms of transport to cars must be stopped at all costs because you can’t stomach the thought of someone doing anything different than you’. Once again, a sensationalist over reaction & deliberate misinterpretation of what is said.

2) ” even if your choice is extremely expensive and paid for by other taxpayers “. Oh yeah, right. And the Gunners-Civic tram line isn’t also extremely expensive and is also paid for by all ACT Ratepayers.

Umm..because canberra is a consumer addicts paradise. With residents soo comfortable and disconnected in their built-roundabout-environment…they live in endless circles..no one knowing how to navigate a roundabout let alone a comfy capitalist city.

Btw I am sending this via the free Metro WiFi. Typing this because I can, on public transport.

rubaiyat said :

Solidarity said :

Which Melbourne are you in? Can’t be the one in Victoria, there’s a Wilson parking garage every 50 metres here

Blatantly not true, especially when compared to Canberra where if it isn’t ugly multistorey car parks surrounding major shopping centres, the surrounds consist of broken bitumen, rubble and dirt car parking and any open greenery is open season for our car addiction.

Solidarity said :

and fat people are sweaty and everywhere.

Are you referring to the butterballs who finally manage to squeeze out of their skin tight 4WDs because it is certainly not true of most pedestrians or tram passengers.

Solidarity said :

Plus i’ve never had the person next to me pull a knife on me when driving my car.

I’ve never had a carjacking when using Public Transport, but I was assaulted in a Civic Car Park and had a car smashed into and stolen in my presence near Commonwealth Park.

One of the first things to great me when I first came to Canberra was my car being broken into in my driveway. They siphoned my petrol and broke the ceiling light in apparent aggravation at not finding anything else to steal.

What mode of pollution free transport did you use to get to Melbourne?
At least you have admitted in your latest post that you use a car.

Solidarity said :

Which Melbourne are you in? Can’t be the one in Victoria, there’s a Wilson parking garage every 50 metres here

Blatantly not true, especially when compared to Canberra where if it isn’t ugly multistorey car parks surrounding major shopping centres, the surrounds consist of broken bitumen, rubble and dirt car parking and any open greenery is open season for our car addiction.

Solidarity said :

and fat people are sweaty and everywhere.

Are you referring to the butterballs who finally manage to squeeze out of their skin tight 4WDs because it is certainly not true of most pedestrians or tram passengers.

Solidarity said :

Plus i’ve never had the person next to me pull a knife on me when driving my car.

I’ve never had a carjacking when using Public Transport, but I was assaulted in a Civic Car Park and had a car smashed into and stolen in my presence near Commonwealth Park.

One of the first things to great me when I first came to Canberra was my car being broken into in my driveway. They siphoned my petrol and broke the ceiling light in apparent aggravation at not finding anything else to steal.

rubaiyat said :

I am currently in Melbourne which has a huge variety of forms of transport and which is the remarkably liveable and dynamic city that it is principally because of the trams.

The city is not drowning in cars or awful car parks and people are not having to breathe the fumes as they readily circulate along the shop and restaurant lined streets. Generally the public transport users are not obese and even the elderly and frail make good use of them.

Which Melbourne are you in? Can’t be the one in Victoria, there’s a Wilson parking garage every 50 metres here and fat people are sweaty and everywhere.

Plus i’ve never had the person next to me pull a knife on me when driving my car.

rubaiyat said :

HiddenDragon said :

rubaiyat said :

I’ll take that as all alternative forms of transport to cars must be stopped at all costs because you can’t stomach the thought of someone doing anything different than you, even if your choice is extremely expensive and paid for by other taxpayers.

I am currently in Melbourne which has a huge variety of forms of transport and which is the remarkably liveable and dynamic city that it is principally because of the trams.

The city is not drowning in cars or awful car parks and people are not having to breathe the fumes as they readily circulate along the shop and restaurant lined streets. Generally the public transport users are not obese and even the elderly and frail make good use of them.

They are relatively quiet, extremely convenient and you can get work done on them.

Principally they massively reduce cars in the inner city and surrounding suburbs.

As an instrument for public health, safety and good I can not recommend them highly enough.

More than once, on this site, I have supported the idea of making travel on the ACTION bus network free – either 24/7, or at least during Monday to Friday working hours. It may be that doing so would involve greater cost than even the true cost of the northside tramline, but unless the costs proved to be absolutely prohibitive, I would support it for a number of reasons – it would be far more equitable for the entire Canberra community (compared to the tramline) and would be a much quicker solution to at least some of the traffic and parking problems which we have across the city. It could also, I think, be a nice little plus for visitors to Canberra to find that they could hop on a bus and not have to fathom the mysteries of our fare system (compared to the mysteries of the fare system wherever they live) – which might encourage longer stays and return visits.

So, contrary to your ridiculous caricature of my views, I am not opposed to public transport – even when it runs at a loss.

We can only go on what you say here, your motives may be completely different.

I see no indication that you use, everything you say indicates not, or support public transport. The whole tenor and theme of your arguments is essentially cars and roads with only a bone thrown to buses.

How would giving it away free change it from a polluting fossil fuel burning, under-staffed, convoluted, cut back, unreliable and on the whole unpleasant bus service that must run on the same congested roads as the cars.

It is already the cheapest but under utilised* form of transport in the ACT, making it free will only make it even more vulnerable to cut backs. Perhaps that is what you really want.

* Ignoring cars, whose costs are not deemed “too prohibitive”, which rarely have more than 1 occupant and are only used a few hours a week. But what do they say about ignorance?

To eliminate the $120 million annual subsidy to ACTION, fare paying patronage would have to increase fivefold using existing services. I can’t see that happening even though public transport isn’t meant to be profitable.
Canberrans are not ignorant about public transport – it just doesn’t work for them.

HiddenDragon said :

rubaiyat said :

I’ll take that as all alternative forms of transport to cars must be stopped at all costs because you can’t stomach the thought of someone doing anything different than you, even if your choice is extremely expensive and paid for by other taxpayers.

I am currently in Melbourne which has a huge variety of forms of transport and which is the remarkably liveable and dynamic city that it is principally because of the trams.

The city is not drowning in cars or awful car parks and people are not having to breathe the fumes as they readily circulate along the shop and restaurant lined streets. Generally the public transport users are not obese and even the elderly and frail make good use of them.

They are relatively quiet, extremely convenient and you can get work done on them.

Principally they massively reduce cars in the inner city and surrounding suburbs.

As an instrument for public health, safety and good I can not recommend them highly enough.

More than once, on this site, I have supported the idea of making travel on the ACTION bus network free – either 24/7, or at least during Monday to Friday working hours. It may be that doing so would involve greater cost than even the true cost of the northside tramline, but unless the costs proved to be absolutely prohibitive, I would support it for a number of reasons – it would be far more equitable for the entire Canberra community (compared to the tramline) and would be a much quicker solution to at least some of the traffic and parking problems which we have across the city. It could also, I think, be a nice little plus for visitors to Canberra to find that they could hop on a bus and not have to fathom the mysteries of our fare system (compared to the mysteries of the fare system wherever they live) – which might encourage longer stays and return visits.

So, contrary to your ridiculous caricature of my views, I am not opposed to public transport – even when it runs at a loss.

We can only go on what you say here, your motives may be completely different.

I see no indication that you use, everything you say indicates not, or support public transport. The whole tenor and theme of your arguments is essentially cars and roads with only a bone thrown to buses.

How would giving it away free change it from a polluting fossil fuel burning, under-staffed, convoluted, cut back, unreliable and on the whole unpleasant bus service that must run on the same congested roads as the cars.

It is already the cheapest but under utilised* form of transport in the ACT, making it free will only make it even more vulnerable to cut backs. Perhaps that is what you really want.

* Ignoring cars, whose costs are not deemed “too prohibitive”, which rarely have more than 1 occupant and are only used a few hours a week. But what do they say about ignorance?

HiddenDragon6:29 pm 13 Aug 15

rubaiyat said :

I’ll take that as all alternative forms of transport to cars must be stopped at all costs because you can’t stomach the thought of someone doing anything different than you, even if your choice is extremely expensive and paid for by other taxpayers.

I am currently in Melbourne which has a huge variety of forms of transport and which is the remarkably liveable and dynamic city that it is principally because of the trams.

The city is not drowning in cars or awful car parks and people are not having to breathe the fumes as they readily circulate along the shop and restaurant lined streets. Generally the public transport users are not obese and even the elderly and frail make good use of them.

They are relatively quiet, extremely convenient and you can get work done on them.

Principally they massively reduce cars in the inner city and surrounding suburbs.

As an instrument for public health, safety and good I can not recommend them highly enough.

More than once, on this site, I have supported the idea of making travel on the ACTION bus network free – either 24/7, or at least during Monday to Friday working hours. It may be that doing so would involve greater cost than even the true cost of the northside tramline, but unless the costs proved to be absolutely prohibitive, I would support it for a number of reasons – it would be far more equitable for the entire Canberra community (compared to the tramline) and would be a much quicker solution to at least some of the traffic and parking problems which we have across the city. It could also, I think, be a nice little plus for visitors to Canberra to find that they could hop on a bus and not have to fathom the mysteries of our fare system (compared to the mysteries of the fare system wherever they live) – which might encourage longer stays and return visits.

So, contrary to your ridiculous caricature of my views, I am not opposed to public transport – even when it runs at a loss.

Amazing that you would link to the article about the MRF and not understand why it was blocked. There is no point producing compost from organic waste if nobody is going to use it because it’s full of “broken glass and battery fluid”.

Also: please do not put nappies in the recycling bin: http://www.cmd.act.gov.au/open_government/inform/act_government_media_releases/tamsd/2012/09/top_five_recycling_tips

rubaiyat said :

btw There is no post facto rationalisation of anything because these are all arguments for a clean safe and sustainable public transport system which I have consistently argued here. I am not the current government, so don’t confuse me with anything they may say or argue for.

Now as to the massive and unremittingly dishonest campaign to maintain the car monopoly in Canberra I’ve dealt with that at length and in great detail, if you can’t follow that and your sole response to alternatives is a false all or nothing, not much I can do to help you. But I guess you are not coming out with your real agenda which is probably the usual do nothing agenda that is an unfortunate Canberra affliction, although not exclusively Canberran.

“Rationalisation” is being used very charitably. The thought process seems to be: “I always drive my car, how dare the gummint spend any of my money on any transport infrastructure but roads for cars”. Community-minded. Visionary. Strategic. Statesmanlike.

rubaiyat said :

btw There is no post facto rationalisation of anything because these are all arguments for a clean safe and sustainable public transport system which I have consistently argued here. I am not the current government, so don’t confuse me with anything they may say or argue for.

Now as to the massive and unremittingly dishonest campaign to maintain the car monopoly in Canberra I’ve dealt with that at length and in great detail, if you can’t follow that and your sole response to alternatives is a false all or nothing, not much I can do to help you. But I guess you are not coming out with your real agenda which is probably the usual do nothing agenda that is an unfortunate Canberra affliction, although not exclusively Canberran.

Please continue – I love tales of conspiracies.

rubaiyat said :

I’ll take that as all alternative forms of transport to cars must be stopped at all costs because you can’t stomach the thought of someone doing anything different than you, even if your choice is extremely expensive and paid for by other taxpayers.

I am currently in Melbourne which has a huge variety of forms of transport and which is the remarkably liveable and dynamic city that it is principally because of the trams.

The city is not drowning in cars or awful car parks and people are not having to breathe the fumes as they readily circulate along the shop and restaurant lined streets. Generally the public transport users are not obese and even the elderly and frail make good use of them.

They are relatively quiet, extremely convenient and you can get work done on them.

Principally they massively reduce cars in the inner city and surrounding suburbs.

As an instrument for public health, safety and good I can not recommend them highly enough.

Try Melbourne later this week when the Metro drivers are on strike.
In any event, the Melbourne I visited a few months ago was gridlocked with traffic in the inner suburbs and main arterial roads being the worst.
As a matter of interest, how did you travel to and from Melbourne-Canberra?
At the end of the day, Canberra isn’t Melbourne.

btw There is no post facto rationalisation of anything because these are all arguments for a clean safe and sustainable public transport system which I have consistently argued here. I am not the current government, so don’t confuse me with anything they may say or argue for.

Now as to the massive and unremittingly dishonest campaign to maintain the car monopoly in Canberra I’ve dealt with that at length and in great detail, if you can’t follow that and your sole response to alternatives is a false all or nothing, not much I can do to help you. But I guess you are not coming out with your real agenda which is probably the usual do nothing agenda that is an unfortunate Canberra affliction, although not exclusively Canberran.

I’ll take that as all alternative forms of transport to cars must be stopped at all costs because you can’t stomach the thought of someone doing anything different than you, even if your choice is extremely expensive and paid for by other taxpayers.

I am currently in Melbourne which has a huge variety of forms of transport and which is the remarkably liveable and dynamic city that it is principally because of the trams.

The city is not drowning in cars or awful car parks and people are not having to breathe the fumes as they readily circulate along the shop and restaurant lined streets. Generally the public transport users are not obese and even the elderly and frail make good use of them.

They are relatively quiet, extremely convenient and you can get work done on them.

Principally they massively reduce cars in the inner city and surrounding suburbs.

As an instrument for public health, safety and good I can not recommend them highly enough.

HiddenDragon said :

I’ll take that as a yes (you do rely on roads – like all the rest of us).

The post-facto rationalisation of the northside tramline is a sometimes entertaining work in progress, but if it had started out as an exercise focused on giving (all of) Canberra some hope of still functioning in the event of an oil-shock, or suchlike, I doubt very much whether the current plan would be seen as the best way of spending the better part of a billion dollars towards that end.

Yep – no new slogans in support of the tram for a while now.

But, you should not be too harsh. For the b$1, if there were an oild shock, at least people will be able to get from Gunners to Civic. I suppose they could add a freight car onto the tram instead of using trucks for freight.

No, wait. The ACT Govt has now announced that stage 1 of the tram may be extended to Russell offices – past the new ASIO building ! By crikey, this ACT Gov’t thinks of everything in case of an oill shock. At least Defence workers who live with 400 metres of the tram line will be able to get to and from work now too.

Its as though someone in the Legislative Assembly turned on a light in the ACT Labor/Greens Cabinet room and woke the ACT Gov’t ministers from their Gunners-Civic tram fantasy land. It’s like they have had an epiphany and the spin flows !!!

Surely, they wouldn’t run that past the site for a new convention centre – nah – surely not. Or to the airport, past Duntroon. That would take another light to be turned on and another epiphany. Maybe that will happen closer to the next ACT election.

Now, I wonder how much extra this extension will increase Annual Rates by……….

HiddenDragon6:20 pm 12 Aug 15

rubaiyat said :

HiddenDragon said :

VYBerlinaV8_is_back said :

dungfungus said :

Nilrem said :

rubaiyat said :

VYBerlinaV8_is_back said :

rommeldog56 said :

Tarinedier said :

Perhaps instead of forcing all ratepayers to pay for something that only some will utilise, the ones that want it could pay for it separately…. Like they do already….

Oh, you mean similar to Light Rail from Gunners to Civic ?

Well played.

Oh you mean similar to the Tuggeranong Freeway or the Gunghalin Parkway or Majura Parkway?

Even better played.

That says it all.

Indeed. The Orl Kars Are Eeeeevil thing is getting a bit silly.

I think we’re still waiting for the road transport haters on this site to confirm whether they ever purchase merchandise which has been transported to, and/or distributed within, Canberra by road.

I think we are still waiting for the environment haters on this site who demand 100% road transport, to explain how long Canberra would last if fossil fuel was cut off, as it is almost the only major city in Australia that has no alternative in place.

You make out it is an all or nothing proposition. This all comes from a single exception from total fossil fuel dependency, which has thrown the extreme knee-jerk conservatives into a frenzied panic that their cars are going to be taken away from them.

Who wants to do something about our insane overdependence on fossil fuels? Only the overwhelming majority of Australians, despite all the lies and misinformation pumped out by the Liberal Government, Fossil Fuel Lobby and Rupert Murdoch.

I’ll take that as a yes (you do rely on roads – like all the rest of us).

The post-facto rationalisation of the northside tramline is a sometimes entertaining work in progress, but if it had started out as an exercise focused on giving (all of) Canberra some hope of still functioning in the event of an oil-shock, or suchlike, I doubt very much whether the current plan would be seen as the best way of spending the better part of a billion dollars towards that end.

“A 2011 consultancy found that a third bin for green waste would be largely ineffective since the ACT already recycles more than 90% of its green waste.”

This is a peculiar statement. Err, 90% of green waste is recycled because there is no other choice, one has to hire a trashpack or take it to the tip. If a third bin was available, one would use it.

To get back on topic, I will harangue every ACT pollie I encounter between now and the Election about why Canberrans don’t warrant a third wheelie bin, to be used for garden/organic waste. I’ve tried to understand the explanations, and none are compelling. Kim, can you help out? What makes the ACT so different to so many other jurisdictions on this issue?

dungfungus said :

Nilrem said :

dungfungus said :

Nilrem said :

dungfungus said :

rubaiyat said :

HiddenDragon said :

VYBerlinaV8_is_back said :

dungfungus said :

Nilrem said :

rubaiyat said :

VYBerlinaV8_is_back said :

rommeldog56 said :

Tarinedier said :

Perhaps instead of forcing all ratepayers to pay for something that only some will utilise, the ones that want it could pay for it separately…. Like they do already….

Oh, you mean similar to Light Rail from Gunners to Civic ?

Well played.

Oh you mean similar to the Tuggeranong Freeway or the Gunghalin Parkway or Majura Parkway?

Even better played.

That says it all.

Indeed. The Orl Kars Are Eeeeevil thing is getting a bit silly.

I think we’re still waiting for the road transport haters on this site to confirm whether they ever purchase merchandise which has been transported to, and/or distributed within, Canberra by road.

I think we are still waiting for the environment haters on this site who demand 100% road transport, to explain how long Canberra would last if fossil fuel was cut off, as it is almost the only major city in Australia that has no alternative in place.

You make out it is an all or nothing proposition. This all comes from a single exception from total fossil fuel dependency, which has thrown the extreme knee-jerk conservatives into a frenzied panic that their cars are going to be taken away from them.

Who wants to do something about our insane overdependence on fossil fuels? Only the overwhelming majority of Australians, despite all the lies and misinformation pumped out by the Liberal Government, Fossil Fuel Lobby and Rupert Murdoch.

You are not getting many volunteers, are you?

This slanging match is a bit silly. I drive a car, I like my car and I like driving. I’m actually a bit of a revhead. I also ride my bicycle, which I also like. And sometimes I enjoy catching buses. I want all modes of transport to work well, safely and efficiently. We are not there yet. I’m also one of those wacky weirdos that agrees with 99.8% of scientists in the field when they say global warming is a thing, and something needs to be done. I don’t know better than them, so I’m happy to support a scientific consensus. As all rational people do. Or are we heading back to the dark ages, where science is some kind of witchcraft?

Your last sentence makes the most sense.

Ha ha , my slip up. Should be “or are we heading back to the dark ages, where science is treated like a form of witchcraft”. Thanks.

Classic Freudian slip.
There certainly is an element of witchcraft in some of the predictions that the celebrity warmists are preaching.

So I’m assuming that the 0.2% of climate scientists, that is the “non-celebrity, non-warmist” types, have access to emprical data that the other 98.8% haven’t seen, are just a lot smarter than all their colleagues, or somehow just missed out on their invitations to the Great Warmist Consipracy?

Nilrem said :

dungfungus said :

Nilrem said :

dungfungus said :

rubaiyat said :

HiddenDragon said :

VYBerlinaV8_is_back said :

dungfungus said :

Nilrem said :

rubaiyat said :

VYBerlinaV8_is_back said :

rommeldog56 said :

Tarinedier said :

Perhaps instead of forcing all ratepayers to pay for something that only some will utilise, the ones that want it could pay for it separately…. Like they do already….

Oh, you mean similar to Light Rail from Gunners to Civic ?

Well played.

Oh you mean similar to the Tuggeranong Freeway or the Gunghalin Parkway or Majura Parkway?

Even better played.

That says it all.

Indeed. The Orl Kars Are Eeeeevil thing is getting a bit silly.

I think we’re still waiting for the road transport haters on this site to confirm whether they ever purchase merchandise which has been transported to, and/or distributed within, Canberra by road.

I think we are still waiting for the environment haters on this site who demand 100% road transport, to explain how long Canberra would last if fossil fuel was cut off, as it is almost the only major city in Australia that has no alternative in place.

You make out it is an all or nothing proposition. This all comes from a single exception from total fossil fuel dependency, which has thrown the extreme knee-jerk conservatives into a frenzied panic that their cars are going to be taken away from them.

Who wants to do something about our insane overdependence on fossil fuels? Only the overwhelming majority of Australians, despite all the lies and misinformation pumped out by the Liberal Government, Fossil Fuel Lobby and Rupert Murdoch.

You are not getting many volunteers, are you?

This slanging match is a bit silly. I drive a car, I like my car and I like driving. I’m actually a bit of a revhead. I also ride my bicycle, which I also like. And sometimes I enjoy catching buses. I want all modes of transport to work well, safely and efficiently. We are not there yet. I’m also one of those wacky weirdos that agrees with 99.8% of scientists in the field when they say global warming is a thing, and something needs to be done. I don’t know better than them, so I’m happy to support a scientific consensus. As all rational people do. Or are we heading back to the dark ages, where science is some kind of witchcraft?

Your last sentence makes the most sense.

Ha ha , my slip up. Should be “or are we heading back to the dark ages, where science is treated like a form of witchcraft”. Thanks.

Classic Freudian slip.
There certainly is an element of witchcraft in some of the predictions that the celebrity warmists are preaching.

dungfungus said :

Nilrem said :

dungfungus said :

rubaiyat said :

HiddenDragon said :

VYBerlinaV8_is_back said :

dungfungus said :

Nilrem said :

rubaiyat said :

VYBerlinaV8_is_back said :

rommeldog56 said :

Tarinedier said :

Perhaps instead of forcing all ratepayers to pay for something that only some will utilise, the ones that want it could pay for it separately…. Like they do already….

Oh, you mean similar to Light Rail from Gunners to Civic ?

Well played.

Oh you mean similar to the Tuggeranong Freeway or the Gunghalin Parkway or Majura Parkway?

Even better played.

That says it all.

Indeed. The Orl Kars Are Eeeeevil thing is getting a bit silly.

I think we’re still waiting for the road transport haters on this site to confirm whether they ever purchase merchandise which has been transported to, and/or distributed within, Canberra by road.

I think we are still waiting for the environment haters on this site who demand 100% road transport, to explain how long Canberra would last if fossil fuel was cut off, as it is almost the only major city in Australia that has no alternative in place.

You make out it is an all or nothing proposition. This all comes from a single exception from total fossil fuel dependency, which has thrown the extreme knee-jerk conservatives into a frenzied panic that their cars are going to be taken away from them.

Who wants to do something about our insane overdependence on fossil fuels? Only the overwhelming majority of Australians, despite all the lies and misinformation pumped out by the Liberal Government, Fossil Fuel Lobby and Rupert Murdoch.

You are not getting many volunteers, are you?

This slanging match is a bit silly. I drive a car, I like my car and I like driving. I’m actually a bit of a revhead. I also ride my bicycle, which I also like. And sometimes I enjoy catching buses. I want all modes of transport to work well, safely and efficiently. We are not there yet. I’m also one of those wacky weirdos that agrees with 99.8% of scientists in the field when they say global warming is a thing, and something needs to be done. I don’t know better than them, so I’m happy to support a scientific consensus. As all rational people do. Or are we heading back to the dark ages, where science is some kind of witchcraft?

Your last sentence makes the most sense.

Ha ha , my slip up. Should be “or are we heading back to the dark ages, where science is treated like a form of witchcraft”. Thanks.

Nilrem said :

dungfungus said :

rubaiyat said :

HiddenDragon said :

VYBerlinaV8_is_back said :

dungfungus said :

Nilrem said :

rubaiyat said :

VYBerlinaV8_is_back said :

rommeldog56 said :

Tarinedier said :

Perhaps instead of forcing all ratepayers to pay for something that only some will utilise, the ones that want it could pay for it separately…. Like they do already….

Oh, you mean similar to Light Rail from Gunners to Civic ?

Well played.

Oh you mean similar to the Tuggeranong Freeway or the Gunghalin Parkway or Majura Parkway?

Even better played.

That says it all.

Indeed. The Orl Kars Are Eeeeevil thing is getting a bit silly.

I think we’re still waiting for the road transport haters on this site to confirm whether they ever purchase merchandise which has been transported to, and/or distributed within, Canberra by road.

I think we are still waiting for the environment haters on this site who demand 100% road transport, to explain how long Canberra would last if fossil fuel was cut off, as it is almost the only major city in Australia that has no alternative in place.

You make out it is an all or nothing proposition. This all comes from a single exception from total fossil fuel dependency, which has thrown the extreme knee-jerk conservatives into a frenzied panic that their cars are going to be taken away from them.

Who wants to do something about our insane overdependence on fossil fuels? Only the overwhelming majority of Australians, despite all the lies and misinformation pumped out by the Liberal Government, Fossil Fuel Lobby and Rupert Murdoch.

You are not getting many volunteers, are you?

This slanging match is a bit silly. I drive a car, I like my car and I like driving. I’m actually a bit of a revhead. I also ride my bicycle, which I also like. And sometimes I enjoy catching buses. I want all modes of transport to work well, safely and efficiently. We are not there yet. I’m also one of those wacky weirdos that agrees with 99.8% of scientists in the field when they say global warming is a thing, and something needs to be done. I don’t know better than them, so I’m happy to support a scientific consensus. As all rational people do. Or are we heading back to the dark ages, where science is some kind of witchcraft?

Your last sentence makes the most sense.

dungfungus said :

rubaiyat said :

HiddenDragon said :

VYBerlinaV8_is_back said :

dungfungus said :

Nilrem said :

rubaiyat said :

VYBerlinaV8_is_back said :

rommeldog56 said :

Tarinedier said :

Perhaps instead of forcing all ratepayers to pay for something that only some will utilise, the ones that want it could pay for it separately…. Like they do already….

Oh, you mean similar to Light Rail from Gunners to Civic ?

Well played.

Oh you mean similar to the Tuggeranong Freeway or the Gunghalin Parkway or Majura Parkway?

Even better played.

That says it all.

Indeed. The Orl Kars Are Eeeeevil thing is getting a bit silly.

I think we’re still waiting for the road transport haters on this site to confirm whether they ever purchase merchandise which has been transported to, and/or distributed within, Canberra by road.

I think we are still waiting for the environment haters on this site who demand 100% road transport, to explain how long Canberra would last if fossil fuel was cut off, as it is almost the only major city in Australia that has no alternative in place.

You make out it is an all or nothing proposition. This all comes from a single exception from total fossil fuel dependency, which has thrown the extreme knee-jerk conservatives into a frenzied panic that their cars are going to be taken away from them.

Who wants to do something about our insane overdependence on fossil fuels? Only the overwhelming majority of Australians, despite all the lies and misinformation pumped out by the Liberal Government, Fossil Fuel Lobby and Rupert Murdoch.

You are not getting many volunteers, are you?

This slanging match is a bit silly. I drive a car, I like my car and I like driving. I’m actually a bit of a revhead. I also ride my bicycle, which I also like. And sometimes I enjoy catching buses. I want all modes of transport to work well, safely and efficiently. We are not there yet. I’m also one of those wacky weirdos that agrees with 99.8% of scientists in the field when they say global warming is a thing, and something needs to be done. I don’t know better than them, so I’m happy to support a scientific consensus. As all rational people do. Or are we heading back to the dark ages, where science is some kind of witchcraft?

rubaiyat said :

HiddenDragon said :

VYBerlinaV8_is_back said :

dungfungus said :

Nilrem said :

rubaiyat said :

VYBerlinaV8_is_back said :

rommeldog56 said :

Tarinedier said :

Perhaps instead of forcing all ratepayers to pay for something that only some will utilise, the ones that want it could pay for it separately…. Like they do already….

Oh, you mean similar to Light Rail from Gunners to Civic ?

Well played.

Oh you mean similar to the Tuggeranong Freeway or the Gunghalin Parkway or Majura Parkway?

Even better played.

That says it all.

Indeed. The Orl Kars Are Eeeeevil thing is getting a bit silly.

I think we’re still waiting for the road transport haters on this site to confirm whether they ever purchase merchandise which has been transported to, and/or distributed within, Canberra by road.

I think we are still waiting for the environment haters on this site who demand 100% road transport, to explain how long Canberra would last if fossil fuel was cut off, as it is almost the only major city in Australia that has no alternative in place.

You make out it is an all or nothing proposition. This all comes from a single exception from total fossil fuel dependency, which has thrown the extreme knee-jerk conservatives into a frenzied panic that their cars are going to be taken away from them.

Who wants to do something about our insane overdependence on fossil fuels? Only the overwhelming majority of Australians, despite all the lies and misinformation pumped out by the Liberal Government, Fossil Fuel Lobby and Rupert Murdoch.

You are not getting many volunteers, are you?

rubaiyat said :

Oh you mean similar to the Tuggeranong Freeway or the Gunghalin Parkway or Majura Parkway?

Exactly. I’ve driven on 2 of those – which is great as my Annual Rates & other rapidly rising ACT Gov’t charges are paying for them. Strangly, as do so many people, I travel on roads daily – even on the bus ! So, money is well spent on roads in my view. Heck, I even have a road at the end of my driveway.

The tram on the other hand – I have absolutely no reason to use it from Gunners-City. So to me, thats b$1 of ACT Ratepayers money pi%$ed up against the wall.

rubaiyat said :

I think we are still waiting for the environment haters on this site who demand 100% road transport,

Once again you over sensationalise or misrepresent the views of others that do not accord with yours.

I have never, on this or any forum, heard anyone “demand 100% road transport”. Quite the opposite actually.

What about a kerbside mulching/chipping service? Would ruin Corkhill’s business model!

HiddenDragon said :

VYBerlinaV8_is_back said :

dungfungus said :

Nilrem said :

rubaiyat said :

VYBerlinaV8_is_back said :

rommeldog56 said :

Tarinedier said :

Perhaps instead of forcing all ratepayers to pay for something that only some will utilise, the ones that want it could pay for it separately…. Like they do already….

Oh, you mean similar to Light Rail from Gunners to Civic ?

Well played.

Oh you mean similar to the Tuggeranong Freeway or the Gunghalin Parkway or Majura Parkway?

Even better played.

That says it all.

Indeed. The Orl Kars Are Eeeeevil thing is getting a bit silly.

I think we’re still waiting for the road transport haters on this site to confirm whether they ever purchase merchandise which has been transported to, and/or distributed within, Canberra by road.

I think we are still waiting for the environment haters on this site who demand 100% road transport, to explain how long Canberra would last if fossil fuel was cut off, as it is almost the only major city in Australia that has no alternative in place.

You make out it is an all or nothing proposition. This all comes from a single exception from total fossil fuel dependency, which has thrown the extreme knee-jerk conservatives into a frenzied panic that their cars are going to be taken away from them.

Who wants to do something about our insane overdependence on fossil fuels? Only the overwhelming majority of Australians, despite all the lies and misinformation pumped out by the Liberal Government, Fossil Fuel Lobby and Rupert Murdoch.

HiddenDragon5:14 pm 11 Aug 15

VYBerlinaV8_is_back said :

dungfungus said :

Nilrem said :

rubaiyat said :

VYBerlinaV8_is_back said :

rommeldog56 said :

Tarinedier said :

Perhaps instead of forcing all ratepayers to pay for something that only some will utilise, the ones that want it could pay for it separately…. Like they do already….

Oh, you mean similar to Light Rail from Gunners to Civic ?

Well played.

Oh you mean similar to the Tuggeranong Freeway or the Gunghalin Parkway or Majura Parkway?

Even better played.

That says it all.

Indeed. The Orl Kars Are Eeeeevil thing is getting a bit silly.

I think we’re still waiting for the road transport haters on this site to confirm whether they ever purchase merchandise which has been transported to, and/or distributed within, Canberra by road.

tim_c said :

I love the double-speak and half truths in this article:

” It was the first government in the world to set a zero waste goal all the way back in 1996.”
Probably the only government stupid enough at the time to think we could eliminate all waste entirely.

http://www.iflscience.com/environment/less-1-swedens-trash-ends-landfills – so, no, inept enough not to achieve it

rubaiyat said :

dungfungus said :

rubaiyat said :

tim_c said :

In reality, it is more likely to result in a lower proportion of materials actually being re-used.

Glad that has been so definitively cleared up.

It is always good to have well informed and knowledgeable experts contribute to these forums, it gets us off the usual comments just lifted off the tops of peoples heads, with absolutely nothing to back them.

The only thing is that just last week I visited several houses made from, or incorporating recycled building materials, using cleaned bricks, beams, flooring, windows, doors, hardware, metal sheeting and corrugated iron. One used broken tiles to make a quite striking bathroom akin to the reassembled tiles used in the buildings created by Antoni Gaudi in Barcelona.

Brad Spalding at Wild Brumby Distillery in Crackenback has created a series of really striking and fun buildings using mostly recycled material.

They make evil road base from recycled concrete you know.
Sorry to ruin your euphoria.

What road base? I can’t see any road base!

I didn’t want to ruin your channelling Gaudi moment either but you should be aware he was killed by one of your beloved tram’s running over him in Barcelona.
He didn’t see it either.

VYBerlinaV8_is_back3:30 pm 11 Aug 15

rubaiyat said :

VYBerlinaV8_is_back said :

dungfungus said :

Nilrem said :

rubaiyat said :

VYBerlinaV8_is_back said :

rommeldog56 said :

Tarinedier said :

Perhaps instead of forcing all ratepayers to pay for something that only some will utilise, the ones that want it could pay for it separately…. Like they do already….

Oh, you mean similar to Light Rail from Gunners to Civic ?

Well played.

Oh you mean similar to the Tuggeranong Freeway or the Gunghalin Parkway or Majura Parkway?

Even better played.

That says it all.

Indeed. The Orl Kars Are Eeeeevil thing is getting a bit silly.

There is no “Orl Kars Are Eeeeevil”.

There is however “Orl Kars” Period. Forever. No alternatives. Ever.

That is a whole lot more than a “bit silly”.

Funny, I could have sworn I’ve seen articles on here, and elsewhere, that refer to bicycles, motorbikes, boats, walking, running, buses, trams and trains and other forms of transport too.

But if you think the the current state of play is ‘cars only forever’, be my guest.

dungfungus said :

rubaiyat said :

tim_c said :

In reality, it is more likely to result in a lower proportion of materials actually being re-used.

Glad that has been so definitively cleared up.

It is always good to have well informed and knowledgeable experts contribute to these forums, it gets us off the usual comments just lifted off the tops of peoples heads, with absolutely nothing to back them.

The only thing is that just last week I visited several houses made from, or incorporating recycled building materials, using cleaned bricks, beams, flooring, windows, doors, hardware, metal sheeting and corrugated iron. One used broken tiles to make a quite striking bathroom akin to the reassembled tiles used in the buildings created by Antoni Gaudi in Barcelona.

Brad Spalding at Wild Brumby Distillery in Crackenback has created a series of really striking and fun buildings using mostly recycled material.

They make evil road base from recycled concrete you know.
Sorry to ruin your euphoria.

What road base? I can’t see any road base!

rubaiyat said :

tim_c said :

In reality, it is more likely to result in a lower proportion of materials actually being re-used.

Glad that has been so definitively cleared up.

It is always good to have well informed and knowledgeable experts contribute to these forums, it gets us off the usual comments just lifted off the tops of peoples heads, with absolutely nothing to back them.

The only thing is that just last week I visited several houses made from, or incorporating recycled building materials, using cleaned bricks, beams, flooring, windows, doors, hardware, metal sheeting and corrugated iron. One used broken tiles to make a quite striking bathroom akin to the reassembled tiles used in the buildings created by Antoni Gaudi in Barcelona.

Brad Spalding at Wild Brumby Distillery in Crackenback has created a series of really striking and fun buildings using mostly recycled material.

They make evil road base from recycled concrete you know.
Sorry to ruin your euphoria.

tim_c said :

In reality, it is more likely to result in a lower proportion of materials actually being re-used.

Glad that has been so definitively cleared up.

It is always good to have well informed and knowledgeable experts contribute to these forums, it gets us off the usual comments just lifted off the tops of peoples heads, with absolutely nothing to back them.

The only thing is that just last week I visited several houses made from, or incorporating recycled building materials, using cleaned bricks, beams, flooring, windows, doors, hardware, metal sheeting and corrugated iron. One used broken tiles to make a quite striking bathroom akin to the reassembled tiles used in the buildings created by Antoni Gaudi in Barcelona.

Brad Spalding at Wild Brumby Distillery in Crackenback has created a series of really striking and fun buildings using mostly recycled material.

VYBerlinaV8_is_back said :

dungfungus said :

Nilrem said :

rubaiyat said :

VYBerlinaV8_is_back said :

rommeldog56 said :

Tarinedier said :

Perhaps instead of forcing all ratepayers to pay for something that only some will utilise, the ones that want it could pay for it separately…. Like they do already….

Oh, you mean similar to Light Rail from Gunners to Civic ?

Well played.

Oh you mean similar to the Tuggeranong Freeway or the Gunghalin Parkway or Majura Parkway?

Even better played.

That says it all.

Indeed. The Orl Kars Are Eeeeevil thing is getting a bit silly.

There is no “Orl Kars Are Eeeeevil”.

There is however “Orl Kars” Period. Forever. No alternatives. Ever.

That is a whole lot more than a “bit silly”.

I love the double-speak and half truths in this article:

” It was the first government in the world to set a zero waste goal all the way back in 1996.”
Probably the only government stupid enough at the time to think we could eliminate all waste entirely.

“$2.4 billion in waste products shipped overseas for processing.”
Processing, eh? How can we be sure it’s not just ending up in someone else’s landfill? And are we really “helping the environment” by burning fossil fuels in trucks and ships carting rubbish around the world?

“Deconstruction is a process of taking a building apart with sufficient care so that the materials can be reused and recycled. As disposal charges for building materials increase, deconstruction will become normal.”
Yes, it’s very popular in undeveloped countries where labour is cheap (ie. less than A$5/day) – I haven’t met too many Canberrans willing to get by on that. It is unlikely to become economical while labour costs are continuing to escalate in Australia (noting that wages are only a part of labour costs – usually 50% or less).

“This encourages innovations in modular, prefabricated building materials that are easy to assemble and disassemble. Reuse rates of 95-100% are typical when fully modular building components are used.”
That sounds nice, but I’m sure the reality will be somewhat different – how many public servants would be please to see their office incorporated re-used pre-fab bathrooms from a 30 year old building that was recently dismantled? In reality, it is more likely to result in a lower proportion of materials actually being re-used.

VYBerlinaV8_is_back11:38 am 11 Aug 15

rubaiyat said :

VYBerlinaV8_is_back said :

rommeldog56 said :

Tarinedier said :

Perhaps instead of forcing all ratepayers to pay for something that only some will utilise, the ones that want it could pay for it separately…. Like they do already….

Oh, you mean similar to Light Rail from Gunners to Civic ?

Well played.

Oh you mean similar to the Tuggeranong Freeway or the Gunghalin Parkway or Majura Parkway?

Please write another of your great big rants, pleeeeeeeease!

Let me help you get started: “all cars are eeeeeeevil…”

VYBerlinaV8_is_back11:35 am 11 Aug 15

dungfungus said :

Nilrem said :

rubaiyat said :

VYBerlinaV8_is_back said :

rommeldog56 said :

Tarinedier said :

Perhaps instead of forcing all ratepayers to pay for something that only some will utilise, the ones that want it could pay for it separately…. Like they do already….

Oh, you mean similar to Light Rail from Gunners to Civic ?

Well played.

Oh you mean similar to the Tuggeranong Freeway or the Gunghalin Parkway or Majura Parkway?

Even better played.

That says it all.

Indeed. The Orl Kars Are Eeeeevil thing is getting a bit silly.

rubaiyat said :

dungfungus said :

The foul odour from the Mugga Lane landfill invades the suburbs of Macarthur, Fadden, Gowrie, Wanniassa, Chisholm and Isaacs whenever wind conditions are calm or bearing from the east.

What odour? I can’t see any odour.

Doesn’t the odour help plants grow, anyway?

Nilrem said :

rubaiyat said :

VYBerlinaV8_is_back said :

rommeldog56 said :

Tarinedier said :

Perhaps instead of forcing all ratepayers to pay for something that only some will utilise, the ones that want it could pay for it separately…. Like they do already….

Oh, you mean similar to Light Rail from Gunners to Civic ?

Well played.

Oh you mean similar to the Tuggeranong Freeway or the Gunghalin Parkway or Majura Parkway?

Even better played.

That says it all.

Nilrem said :

rubaiyat said :

VYBerlinaV8_is_back said :

rommeldog56 said :

Tarinedier said :

Perhaps instead of forcing all ratepayers to pay for something that only some will utilise, the ones that want it could pay for it separately…. Like they do already….

Oh, you mean similar to Light Rail from Gunners to Civic ?

Well played.

Oh you mean similar to the Tuggeranong Freeway or the Gunghalin Parkway or Majura Parkway?

Even better played.

+1

rubaiyat said :

VYBerlinaV8_is_back said :

rommeldog56 said :

Tarinedier said :

Perhaps instead of forcing all ratepayers to pay for something that only some will utilise, the ones that want it could pay for it separately…. Like they do already….

Oh, you mean similar to Light Rail from Gunners to Civic ?

Well played.

Oh you mean similar to the Tuggeranong Freeway or the Gunghalin Parkway or Majura Parkway?

Even better played.

dungfungus said :

The foul odour from the Mugga Lane landfill invades the suburbs of Macarthur, Fadden, Gowrie, Wanniassa, Chisholm and Isaacs whenever wind conditions are calm or bearing from the east.

What odour? I can’t see any odour.

VYBerlinaV8_is_back said :

rommeldog56 said :

Tarinedier said :

Perhaps instead of forcing all ratepayers to pay for something that only some will utilise, the ones that want it could pay for it separately…. Like they do already….

Oh, you mean similar to Light Rail from Gunners to Civic ?

Well played.

Oh you mean similar to the Tuggeranong Freeway or the Gunghalin Parkway or Majura Parkway?

VYBerlinaV8_is_back9:02 am 11 Aug 15

rommeldog56 said :

Tarinedier said :

Perhaps instead of forcing all ratepayers to pay for something that only some will utilise, the ones that want it could pay for it separately…. Like they do already….

Oh, you mean similar to Light Rail from Gunners to Civic ?

Well played.

“The same chart also illustrates a real challenge. Our population has only increased by 16 per cent in a decade and a half while the total amount of waste generated across Canberra has grown by over 100 per cent.”

The chart doesn’t show total amount of waste has grown %100 . Over 3/4 of waste is recovered so it’s not waste. There is less waste than 10 years ago.

Felix the Cat8:10 pm 10 Aug 15

pajs said :

crackerpants said :

Nilrem said :

Maya123 said :

As someone who composts and only puts a garbage bin out (rarely full even then) every few weeks, I would agree that most Canberrans are very wasteful. Otherwise, why do they put out a full bin weekly? (And before someone comes back with something like that they bring home waste from work to fill their bin with, this is not most people’s reason for a full bin.)

Agreed. Our landfill bin is ususally less than half full each week. Why can’t we put garden waste in there? The trashpack people take their loads (mainly garden waste) to landfill.

Our service was at pains to assure us that around 90% of trashpack contents were recycles (mostly garden waste to mulch). But happy to stand corrected – that would certainly make us review what we’re doing at home.

Green waste loads with trashpack providers go to mulch/compost. Way cheaper for the providers than taking it to landfill for disposal to the tip face and paying those higher costs.

They do? News to me. A previous job was picking up trashpacks and taking them to the tip. Don’t have time (or inclination) to sort through 20 or 30 trashpacks to sort green waste from other waste. Never once took any to a dedicated composting/green waste area.

You never know what is in a trashpack, the top 1/3 may be grass clippings but the bottom 2/3 may be bricks or dirty nappies or could be anything. There is no restrictions on what goes in a trashpack.

HiddenDragon5:48 pm 10 Aug 15

With a Government which is supposedly fraught about reducing private vehicle usage, I trust that the environmental etc. costs of residents taking their trailer trips to the tip with garden waste are being factored into the calculations which conveniently support the argument against providing a green bin.

Likewise, a Government which is fond of talking about the urban forest etc. should encourage gardeners with a green waste bin – the application of the user pays principle is remarkably selective around this town.

Maya123 said :

Tarinedier said :

Nilrem said :

“A 2011 consultancy found that a third bin for green waste would be largely ineffective since the ACT already recycles more than 90% of its green waste.”

Hang on, we compost all our organic kitchen waste and lawn clippings, but we still need to pay for a trashpack every month to deal with all leaves, pruning etc. Is this really than unusual? We would certianly put a third bin to good use, and would happily divert the money we currently spend on the trashpack to a slight increase in rates.

Perhaps instead of forcing all ratepayers to pay for something that only some will utilise, the ones that want it could pay for it separately…. Like they do already….

I would guess now that most people are putting green waste in their bins (how else can they have full bins week after week), so those of us who do compost have been subsidising them for years. You too, if you put vegetable scraps in your bins.

We haven’t, but sometimes I wonder why we don’t dump the trashpack and putt our garden waste in the general waste bin. There’s lots of space in it!

Tarinedier said :

Nilrem said :

“A 2011 consultancy found that a third bin for green waste would be largely ineffective since the ACT already recycles more than 90% of its green waste.”

Hang on, we compost all our organic kitchen waste and lawn clippings, but we still need to pay for a trashpack every month to deal with all leaves, pruning etc. Is this really than unusual? We would certianly put a third bin to good use, and would happily divert the money we currently spend on the trashpack to a slight increase in rates.

Perhaps instead of forcing all ratepayers to pay for something that only some will utilise, the ones that want it could pay for it separately…. Like they do already….

I would guess now that most people are putting green waste in their bins (how else can they have full bins week after week), so those of us who do compost have been subsidising them for years. You too, if you put vegetable scraps in your bins.

Tarinedier said :

Perhaps instead of forcing all ratepayers to pay for something that only some will utilise, the ones that want it could pay for it separately…. Like they do already….

Oh, you mean similar to Light Rail from Gunners to Civic ?

Nilrem said :

“A 2011 consultancy found that a third bin for green waste would be largely ineffective since the ACT already recycles more than 90% of its green waste.”

Hang on, we compost all our organic kitchen waste and lawn clippings, but we still need to pay for a trashpack every month to deal with all leaves, pruning etc. Is this really than unusual? We would certianly put a third bin to good use, and would happily divert the money we currently spend on the trashpack to a slight increase in rates.

Perhaps instead of forcing all ratepayers to pay for something that only some will utilise, the ones that want it could pay for it separately…. Like they do already….

pajs said :

Nilrem said :

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-news/report-rubbishes-green-waste-bins-20111215-1uva6.html

This apparently is the reason. Which begs the question, why is it clearly viable almost everywhere else?

Because Canberra already has very high rates of self-hauled, clean garden organics. Very differemt to other cities. That’s your baseline when considering the costs and benefits of moving to a kerbside green waste bin.

That’s the baseline , because there is no other choice. I’m sure most of those people who currently transport trailer loads of garden waste themselves, or use a trashpack, would happily switch to an organic waste bin! I for one would happily pay the increased rates required – with the money I currently spend on a trashopack.

crackerpants said :

Nilrem said :

Maya123 said :

As someone who composts and only puts a garbage bin out (rarely full even then) every few weeks, I would agree that most Canberrans are very wasteful. Otherwise, why do they put out a full bin weekly? (And before someone comes back with something like that they bring home waste from work to fill their bin with, this is not most people’s reason for a full bin.)

Agreed. Our landfill bin is ususally less than half full each week. Why can’t we put garden waste in there? The trashpack people take their loads (mainly garden waste) to landfill.

Our service was at pains to assure us that around 90% of trashpack contents were recycles (mostly garden waste to mulch). But happy to stand corrected – that would certainly make us review what we’re doing at home.

Green waste loads with trashpack providers go to mulch/compost. Way cheaper for the providers than taking it to landfill for disposal to the tip face and paying those higher costs.

Nilrem said :

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-news/report-rubbishes-green-waste-bins-20111215-1uva6.html

This apparently is the reason. Which begs the question, why is it clearly viable almost everywhere else?

Because Canberra already has very high rates of self-hauled, clean garden organics. Very differemt to other cities. That’s your baseline when considering the costs and benefits of moving to a kerbside green waste bin.

crackerpants2:48 pm 10 Aug 15

Nilrem said :

Maya123 said :

As someone who composts and only puts a garbage bin out (rarely full even then) every few weeks, I would agree that most Canberrans are very wasteful. Otherwise, why do they put out a full bin weekly? (And before someone comes back with something like that they bring home waste from work to fill their bin with, this is not most people’s reason for a full bin.)

Agreed. Our landfill bin is ususally less than half full each week. Why can’t we put garden waste in there? The trashpack people take their loads (mainly garden waste) to landfill.

Our service was at pains to assure us that around 90% of trashpack contents were recycles (mostly garden waste to mulch). But happy to stand corrected – that would certainly make us review what we’re doing at home.

crackerpants2:41 pm 10 Aug 15

Nilrem said :

“A 2011 consultancy found that a third bin for green waste would be largely ineffective since the ACT already recycles more than 90% of its green waste.”

Hang on, we compost all our organic kitchen waste and lawn clippings, but we still need to pay for a trashpack every month to deal with all leaves, pruning etc. Is this really than unusual? We would certianly put a third bin to good use, and would happily divert the money we currently spend on the trashpack to a slight increase in rates.

Based on the Crace post, it probably is unusual. But I’m with you – we have 3 compost bins for kitchen/pet/garden waste, and a warm spot on concrete for “cooking down” some prunings and vegie garden waste after harvest so they can fit in the bins, and we still need a regular trashpack service. Our regular wheelie bin goes out every second week with the recycling, only half full, and that’s mostly nappies (much to my chagrin). We would happily fill a green bin every week or two – even holding back the best stuff for composting for our gardens.

Maya123 said :

As someone who composts and only puts a garbage bin out (rarely full even then) every few weeks, I would agree that most Canberrans are very wasteful. Otherwise, why do they put out a full bin weekly? (And before someone comes back with something like that they bring home waste from work to fill their bin with, this is not most people’s reason for a full bin.)

Agreed. Our landfill bin is ususally less than half full each week. Why can’t we put garden waste in there? The trashpack people take their loads (mainly garden waste) to landfill.

dungfungus said :

While the statistics may show waste to landfill has decreased there is nothing about the smell increasing during the stewardship of the Labor government.
And it wasn’t simply a matter of “The no waste target by 2010 goal MAY NOT have been been achieved”, it wasn’t, full stop!
The foul odour from the Mugga Lane landfill invades the suburbs of Macarthur, Fadden, Gowrie, Wanniassa, Chisholm and Isaacs whenever wind conditions are calm or bearing from the east.
This was not considered when the Labor government arranged to extend the life of the facility by 30 years just before the 2012 election despite 80% of people surveyed raising the issue of the smell. Before you blame the Liberals and The Greens for blocking purchase of equipment for the landfill, please consider that bit of information.
By the way, you should state the fact that you are standing for election at the next election as a Labor candidate if you intend to make a political statement.

It’s clearly stated on her profile, though I agree in the interests of transparency it wouldn’t hurt to remind people. Particularly if any of these issues are going to be part of her political platform.

As someone who composts and only puts a garbage bin out (rarely full even then) every few weeks, I would agree that most Canberrans are very wasteful. Otherwise, why do they put out a full bin weekly? (And before someone comes back with something like that they bring home waste from work to fill their bin with, this is not most people’s reason for a full bin.)

“A 2011 consultancy found that a third bin for green waste would be largely ineffective since the ACT already recycles more than 90% of its green waste.”

Hang on, we compost all our organic kitchen waste and lawn clippings, but we still need to pay for a trashpack every month to deal with all leaves, pruning etc. Is this really than unusual? We would certianly put a third bin to good use, and would happily divert the money we currently spend on the trashpack to a slight increase in rates.

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-news/report-rubbishes-green-waste-bins-20111215-1uva6.html

This apparently is the reason. Which begs the question, why is it clearly viable almost everywhere else?

While the statistics may show waste to landfill has decreased there is nothing about the smell increasing during the stewardship of the Labor government.
And it wasn’t simply a matter of “The no waste target by 2010 goal MAY NOT have been been achieved”, it wasn’t, full stop!
The foul odour from the Mugga Lane landfill invades the suburbs of Macarthur, Fadden, Gowrie, Wanniassa, Chisholm and Isaacs whenever wind conditions are calm or bearing from the east.
This was not considered when the Labor government arranged to extend the life of the facility by 30 years just before the 2012 election despite 80% of people surveyed raising the issue of the smell. Before you blame the Liberals and The Greens for blocking purchase of equipment for the landfill, please consider that bit of information.
By the way, you should state the fact that you are standing for election at the next election as a Labor candidate if you intend to make a political statement.

Why doesn’t the ACT have a wheelie bin for organic/garden waste? Queanbeyan, and most councils in Sydney do, and yet we are the “garden city”.

During the last election campaign, the Government said that it would cost too much, and also affect the employment of the people that run the user-pays trashpack services. But then it announced it would be spending millions on a facility to separate organic waste from the balance of the material currently going to landfill.

Why not get the residents to do this separating, with an extra bin? I assume the employment impact of cutting into the trashpack business would be offset by the extra employees needed for a third household bin?

I don’t understand. Can anyone explain?

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