29 March 2021

Canberra's electric cars to be powered by renewables

| johnboy
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ActewAGL have announced they’ve done a deal with the Better Place electric car project to source their power from green energy in a $60 million deal.

This supply agreement is worth approximately $60 million over 10 years, and is the largest renewable energy deal of its kind in Australia. The renewable energy will be drawn from generation sources such as wind, hydro and solar.

READ ALSO The best places to buy electric cars in Canberra

“Today’s agreement is a significant milestone for Better Place as we move towards the deployment of our electric car charging infrastructure in Canberra later this year”, said Better Place Australia Chief Executive Officer Evan Thornley.

“This agreement is part of a high-value, long term relationship that demonstrates the willingness of industry participants such as ActewAGL to be at the leading edge of environmentally responsible solutions that support Australia’s transition to a low-carbon future.

Simon Corbell has chimed in with a media release:

Mr Corbell said a city-wide trial in Canberra is well under way and is scheduled to commence
operations in 2012. In July 2009, Better Place Australia, an electric vehicle infrastructure and services
provider, announced it had selected Canberra as the site of its first city-wide rollout of electric vehicles
infrastructure in Australia.

“The ACT Government strongly supports the use of electric vehicles as a way of reducing our city’s
greenhouse gas emissions,” said Mr Corbell.

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monomania said :

pajs said :

But does this Green Energy actually save carbon dioxide emissions? To do so ActewAGL will have to avoid buying an equivalent amount of electricity generated by coal fired stations causing them to burn less coal during the base load period or cause a gas fired power station not to be generating because ActewAGL is buying solar, wind or biogas or hydro.

And lets not mention the Hydro practice of generating electricity during the peak demand using Hydro, then during off peak using coal fired electricity to pump the water back up to the top reservoir using more dirty electricity than generated, but making a net gain in $$$$ for the Snowy Hydro company.

monomania said :

pajs said :

… The contract is for 100% accredited Green Power. That means that ActewAGL needs to self-generate, or purchase from other generators, that amount of accredited Green Power supplied to Better Place. Accredited Green Power in independently audited to ensure power sold through the network does come from appropriate renewable sources.

You can find out more about Better Place here http://australia.betterplace.com/the-solution

But does this Green Energy actually save carbon dioxide emissions? To do so ActewAGL will have to avoid buying an equivalent amount of electricity generated by coal fired stations causing them to burn less coal during the base load period or cause a gas fired power station not to be generating because ActewAGL is buying solar, wind or biogas or hydro.

Or, better yet, how do you tell if the electrons that are moving into the vehicle at the charge point are moving due to ‘green’ generation? ‘Cos, from what the networks folk suggest, that’s not how the grid works. Rather, it’s an ‘offset’-type arrangement: charge point delivers 14 buckets of energy from the ‘big electrickery well’ and the regional electrickery well administrator (in this case, Actew) buys 14 buckets of green energy to tip into the well (and buys 14 buckets fewer from Mister Dirty Stack). But, when it’s all said and done, it all essentially comes out of the same well. So, in effect, gazket is spot on.

I take a bit of issue with the battery switch point idea as well. I’ve been involved in the auto industry for a looooong time now and understand how it works. I simply can’t see how you will get all the world’s manufacturers to agree to a common set of engineering parameters to enable relatively generic equipment to automatically change batteries. Even within manufacturers, there’s never going to be just one battery to cover its entire model range. You’ll be driving around saying to yourself, “Nah . . . can’t switch there. Need to find a Toynissabishi Foilside compatable station that has the later-model halogen fluid testing apllication.” Just how many different types and specifications are there for spark plugs? For tyres? For brake pads? For shock absorbers? . . . QED.

pajs said :

… The contract is for 100% accredited Green Power. That means that ActewAGL needs to self-generate, or purchase from other generators, that amount of accredited Green Power supplied to Better Place. Accredited Green Power in independently audited to ensure power sold through the network does come from appropriate renewable sources.

You can find out more about Better Place here http://australia.betterplace.com/the-solution

But does this Green Energy actually save carbon dioxide emissions? To do so ActewAGL will have to avoid buying an equivalent amount of electricity generated by coal fired stations causing them to burn less coal during the base load period or cause a gas fired power station not to be generating because ActewAGL is buying solar, wind or biogas or hydro.

Gazket, you ask how they will know that the power used by Better Place’s electric vehicle fleet will come from Green Power. Better Place provide the network of charge points (among other things). They have a contract with an energy retailer for the electricity those charge points consume. This contract is with ActewAGL. The contract is for 100% accredited Green Power. That means that ActewAGL needs to self-generate, or purchase from other generators, that amount of accredited Green Power supplied to Better Place. Accredited Green Power in independently audited to ensure power sold through the network does come from appropriate renewable sources.

You can find out more about Better Place here http://australia.betterplace.com/the-solution

Classified said :

It’s early days yet. Give electric cars some time and they will develop as a product. Anyone remember what diesel passenger cars were like in the 1980s? Think about modern diesels now. The same kind of improvements will happen over time.

I remember. I was there! And, I can floridly remember a certain motoring magazine trumpeting how they’d driven a diesel vehicle (named after a game in which one chases a small white ball around a course with a selection of clubs) from Sydney to Melbourne on one tank of fuel (with plenty to spare).

And that lends a further clue to some of the challenges with electric vehicles. For instance, you can almost argue that diesel is a ‘drop in’ fuel. You can stick it in the market and it’s there and uses familiar and well established infrastructure, supported by familar and well established logistics. You can’t really say that about electricity in the context of powering vehicles (not even in the sense of charging at home).

Holditz said :

I look at this and think, this is why the rest of Australia hates us. We introduce all this wonderful touchy feely things, like human rights conforming prisons, plastic bag bans, or this electric car thing, and say we’re leading Australia. Meanwhile the rest of Australia look at us and say “it’s all right for you, you who work greasing the wheels of government, earning lots of money sitting on your bums and shuffling paper here and there, but we live in the real world.”

+1 The disconnect between Australia and Canberra is a chasm, particularly at the local government level – oops, I should have said state/territory level shouldn’t I. But I still like it here.

Rawhide Kid Part311:24 pm 01 Jun 11

Mysteryman said :

Solidarity said :

I really, really hope they don’t try and sway people into electric cars. Conventional cars are still better for the environment.

How do you figure? I’ve heard this argument before, but it’s never been backed up by anything other than opinion.

If I hang on to my 20 year old car for another ten years (which runs on LPG only), that’s got to be better for the environment than buying a new electric car that will require the use of even more resources and goodness knows what to produce all those batteries.

I look at this and think, this is why the rest of Australia hates us. We introduce all this wonderful touchy feely things, like human rights conforming prisons, plastic bag bans, or this electric car thing, and say we’re leading Australia. Meanwhile the rest of Australia look at us and say “it’s all right for you, you who work greasing the wheels of government, earning lots of money sitting on your bums and shuffling paper here and there, but we live in the real world.”

Mr Corbell Diesel engined cars are more better for the environment.

unless there is a windmill or solar panel at the charging station how can they say the power comes from renewable sources. It will use power from a normal power station like everyone else does.
Another Labor and greens lie

averagejoeaussie9:04 pm 01 Jun 11

Here we go again! Idiotic government/minority groups with their “environment” solutions via electric/hybrid cars that very few of them drive; listen up, fools! The Ford Fiesta Econetic achieves better economy with lesser emissions (via diesel) than a Prius or any other Hybrid! Oops, idiotic law makers; let’s listen to the normals for a change!!

Solidarity said :

I really, really hope they don’t try and sway people into electric cars. Conventional cars are still better for the environment.

Electric cars are worse if they don’t use renewable energy to power up. But if they do use renewables they should be quite a bit better. Lots of stuff around about this. Actually I think even the latest choice magazine featured a study on it. Better place seem to be. Saying they’ll ensure all charging spots in Canberra are renewable energy which seems good. I’m more worried about whether they’ll really become the new mode of transport. And also a bit about whether making all the batteries will use up all the precious metals. Actually, and also about how the batteries are handled when they die.

It’s early days yet. Give electric cars some time and they will develop as a product. Anyone remember what diesel passenger cars were like in the 1980s? Think about modern diesels now. The same kind of improvements will happen over time.

Mysteryman said :

How do you figure? I’ve heard this argument before, but it’s never been backed up by anything other than opinion.

I have heard — from people well placed to make the judgement — that it is certainly the case in Australia. They claim studies have been done and they’ve seen ’em. Indeed, a certain French manufacturer got in a bit of strife in the UK with their claims about emmissions and green credentials and blah blah, only to be picked up on the reality that their assertions were based on French power generation stats (pass the isotopes, will you?) and not UK ones (pass the brown coal, will you?)

I think the considered reality at some quite well informed levels is that electric vehicles won’t ‘take over’ in the short or medium term. There’s any number of constraints, but even supply of vehicles is a major obstacle in Australia. Recharging is also not a straight forward as you might think (especially at home). There’s lots of things to ‘sort out’ before any proliferation can reasonably begin.

Solidarity said :

I really, really hope they don’t try and sway people into electric cars. Conventional cars are still better for the environment.

How do you figure? I’ve heard this argument before, but it’s never been backed up by anything other than opinion.

I really, really hope they don’t try and sway people into electric cars. Conventional cars are still better for the environment.

Will be interesting to see if we really do get electric vehicles flooding the roads as a replacement for petrol cars. Hasn’t happened with the prius. And also, will people use electric vehicles as their main car when it isn’t great for travelling long distances?

This worries me ( “This agreement is part of a high-value, long term relationship that demonstrates the willingness of industry participants such as ActewAGL to be at the leading edge of environmentally responsible solutions that support Australia’s transition to a low-carbon future.”)

Prepare yourselfs to subsidise the ACTEW fiefdom while it chases glory. Will be an expensive white elephant.

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