8 February 2011

Car crash in Gungahlin

| cnbragirl
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It seems noone who drives along Gungahlin Place in gungahin knows how to give way. This comes from a resident of the street who has near missed numerous cars.

There was an incident today when a small white Hyundai Getz (surpisingly not a P Plater) T-Boned a larger, Toyota of some sort.

Maybe Canberrans should learn how to drive properly as give-ways, and roundabouts around the gungahlin area are absolutely ridiculous.

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Mr Gillespie9:07 pm 24 Feb 11

Deref said :

Grrrr said :

Dear Canberra drivers: Quit signalling right when you’re going straight through a roundabout!

That’s the law.

Get your facts right. You’re supposed to signal right when you enter a roundabout and left to indicate your exit.

If more people did that there’d be fewer accidents.

Errr how do you signal right if you’re going STRAIGHT AHEAD???

Is there a way of indicating ‘straight ahead’ like you can indicate ‘left’ or ‘right’?????

On the other hand a lot of people fail to indicate when they DO turn (left or right). What difference does a roundabout make (especially a tiny roundabout)???

It’s funny that this is still a common problem in Canberra. Are people stupid or ignorant?.

Swidt said :

LOL @ Deref. Seeya mate.

I wish he had replied to say he had read the comments. At least we would know that hes aware of his mistake and would re-read the road rules.

Deref, email johnboy with your details to pass onto me. I’d be happy to sit down with some matchbox cars, and a whiteboard marker and show you the fundamentals of driving, indicating and road position.

LOL @ Deref. Seeya mate.

Rawhide Kid Part3 said :

screaming banshee said :

I think its about time we had regular re-testing to ensure people know the ACTUAL road rules not just the ones they think are right and the ones they think that apply to them.

Absolutely. I’d happily take the test every ten years and feel much safer on the road. I know of two people who drive but have never had a driving test in their life. One bought their first license overseas and the other got a temporary license overseas which was recognised as a full license when they got back. Both are shocking drivers. There must be many more like that.

screaming banshee4:15 pm 12 Feb 11

Davo111 said :

glad you cleared that up with the second paragraph, because the first sentence is wrong.

Perhaps I should have put more emphasis on the ‘and’ in entry and exit, or added you should always indicate when leaving. I assume that was the issue?

dvaey said :

Happy enough to be corrected on this, but isnt the GDE 80 from Barton Highway to Glenloch? Maybe this is why people get pissed at you for doing 20km/hr under the limit on a long single-lane road, because they want to drive to the signposted limit, not to the limit you think it should be?

Actually at the moment its a 60kph zone from wherever the roadworks starts through to the belconnen way overpass

Rawhide Kid Part3 said :

then why not re-test all drivers every 10 years for “safety” reasons?

political backlash.

Honestly, i dont think 80% of people over 40 would be able to pass the practical test. For the reason, the test requires you to “physically” look down every side street as your driving. 3 missed side streets = a fail. And you can’t “look” with your eyes either, has to be a head-check, need to be “seen to be looking”

amarooresident3 said :

BTW, what makes roundabouts in Gungahlin different from anywhere else?

At the intersection of Gungahlin Place and Anthony Rolfe it’s not a roundabout, but kinda looks like it. I don’t know if this is where the OP was talking about, but it’s a place where I have seen a lot of problems.

The problem in this case is that people use roundabout rules for what is actually an intersection. So, for example, somebody crosses the first part of Anthony Rolfe and is now between the two sections heading westbound on Gungahlin Place. If they think they are in a roundabout, they believe that someone coming up Anthony Rolfe should give way to them (giving way to a vehicle already in a roundabout). But in fact it’s an intersection so the Anthony Rolfe car has right of way.

There’s quite a few of these not-roundabouts in Gungahlin, particularly on Anthony Rolfe.

Rawhide Kid Part311:30 am 12 Feb 11

screaming banshee said :

I think its about time we had regular re-testing to ensure people know the ACTUAL road rules not just the ones they think are right and the ones they think that apply to them.

If there is a requirement to have your LPG Tank removed and inspected every 10 years for safety reason, then why not re-test all drivers every 10 years for “safety” reasons?

luther_bendross said :

Just another link to highlight that you do NOT indicate right when going strainght through a roundabout. (Second page of the .pdf, lowest paragraph.)

http://www.tams.act.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0003/64479/Road_Rules_2011_Part_C2_v2.pdf

My other bug bear is those stupid FORM ONE LANE markings with little-to-no warning. Poor infrastructure like that gives rise to shitty driving, i.e. by not putting the onus on one driver to give way, you’re really inviting accidents.

+1. I really hate it how drivers dont indicate exiting the roundabout, but when the form one lane comes up straight after the roundabout, they indicate they are merging. Well doh, where else are you gonna go in a form one lane? When I am exiting a 2 laned roundabout from the left lane, I want those drivers in the right lane (also exiting straight ahead) TO INDICATE OFF, so I know I am potentially gonna get side swiped, or have some jerk speed up to get past me b4 the form one lane. Or if they dont indicate off, then I know they are exiting to the right when I glance over my right, b4 the form one lane quickly comes up. Its not hard, really!

screaming banshee said :

Absolutely it is correct to indicate upon entry and exit….if you are turning.

Think of it like a normal intersection where the only thing different is you indicate left as you leave the ‘intersection’, you don’t constantly indicate right when you are driving through traffic lights and what not.

glad you cleared that up with the second paragraph, because the first sentence is wrong.

Just to link two threads together…namely the motorcyclist licence testing review.

This is why motorcyclists die or get injured on ACT roads, not how many hours they spend weaving through cones at Sutton (although practice practice practice). A complete lack of basic roadcraft and understanding of the road rules by ignorant car drivers safe in their 2 tonne shell. Failure to give way, failure to indicate correctly, failure to headcheck, failure to allow safe stopping distances, failure to pay attention cos you are too busy playing angry birds on your iphone. While cars have airbags and crumple zones to forgive these things most of the time (except your insurance company) motorbikes do not.

caveat for all those who like to pick apart absolutist statements the other reason is inappropriate cornering speed and instinctive survival reactions causing the rider to destabilise the bike. I’ve become far far more aware of possible dangers on the road (deref!!!) since riding the bike every day and have to watch out and expect car drivers to do all those silly things above, and they do.

*yes ms white hyundia getz in braddon I’m referring to you next time you approach a roundabout at least look (with your eyes) to the right, I don’t care if you still wanna try zooming through directly in front of me but I would appreciate knowing that you at least saw me and made a conscious decision to attempt a collision or at least gave yourself a little fright as I plummeted towards your drivers door)*

screaming banshee10:32 am 11 Feb 11

sepi said :

To be fair, when the road rules were nationalised, there was a tv ad about roundabouts which stated that it was correct to indicate upon entry to the roundabout and exit.

Absolutely it is correct to indicate upon entry and exit….if you are turning.

Think of it like a normal intersection where the only thing different is you indicate left as you leave the ‘intersection’, you don’t constantly indicate right when you are driving through traffic lights and what not.

I’m confused..

I thought when you were driving straight through a roundabout.. you ignore all other drivers around you and continue driving in a straight line through both lanes in the roundabout… or is that just for Ute drivers and people in White Commodores ?

kezzafezza said :

Another is when I drive on the GDE, people know it is a 60 zone but still get pissed off at and abuse me for driving at 60. They all pass me just after Aranda.

Happy enough to be corrected on this, but isnt the GDE 80 from Barton Highway to Glenloch? Maybe this is why people get pissed at you for doing 20km/hr under the limit on a long single-lane road, because they want to drive to the signposted limit, not to the limit you think it should be?

troll-sniffer9:18 am 11 Feb 11

Deref said :

Grrrr said :

Dear Canberra drivers: Quit signalling right when you’re going straight through a roundabout!

That’s the law.

Get your facts right. You’re supposed to signal right when you enter a roundabout and left to indicate your exit.

If more people did that there’d be fewer accidents.

There are few things in life more satisfying than seeing a dogmatic poster get his or her come-uppance! Me, I am a dogmatic poster, but at least I normally have a few shreds of credibility inherent in my posts!

To be fair, when the road rules were nationalised, there was a tv ad about roundabouts which stated that it was correct to indicate upon entry to the roundabout and exit. I think this rule was then changed, but no new tv ads were shown. You do often see oldies indicating to enter the roundabout, and I think they are trying to do th right thing.

Time for a new tv explanation of roundabouts I think.

Also lets go back to giving way to the right, instead of whoever gets there first.

luther_bendross said :

Just another link to highlight that you do NOT indicate right when going straight through a roundabout.

I really hope Deref re-reads this thread, mega sigh.

I also hope Deref understands that if the people to his left are going straight (at a 4 way roundabout), they will see his indication, pull out, and get t-boned by him – and he would be at fault

luther_bendross1:35 pm 10 Feb 11

Just another link to highlight that you do NOT indicate right when going strainght through a roundabout. (Second page of the .pdf, lowest paragraph.)

http://www.tams.act.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0003/64479/Road_Rules_2011_Part_C2_v2.pdf

My other bug bear is those stupid FORM ONE LANE markings with little-to-no warning. Poor infrastructure like that gives rise to shitty driving, i.e. by not putting the onus on one driver to give way, you’re really inviting accidents.

Deref said :

Grrrr said :

Dear Canberra drivers: Quit signalling right when you’re going straight through a roundabout!

That’s the law.

Get your facts right. You’re supposed to signal right when you enter a roundabout and left to indicate your exit.

If more people did that there’d be fewer accidents.

Please hand your drivers license in and never use the roads again!

People who insist on driving themselves can have passed all the intensive courses.

Considering the costs of car accidents I think you’ll find automation will come on very, very fast when it comes on.

They’ll also potentially remove the need to even have private cars (enthusiasts excepted), just cruising ubiquitous hire pods.

Pay extra if you don’t want to share with others along your route.

johnboy said :

It’s all a bit moot, in not many years you’ll need a specialist licence to turn off the autopilot in cars.

Many, many years off yet I’m afraid, John. While there are cars out there now with systems like RADAR cruise control, they’re not cheap. It will be a bloody long time before your (insert Korean manufacturer of your choice) Chintzbox SL ($12,990-00 drive away) will be thus equipped. Then there’s all the other supporting infrastructure required to make the more complex systems work. Sure, VW have a number of research vehicles that can learn a race track and hammer around it sans driver pretty well, but they still have to be ‘taught’ and are incapable of negotiating roads unaided at first sight, or take to the track in ‘traffic’. Then there are issues of interoperability between systems. Which leads to the setting of global standards and blah blah blah.

All the research I’ve done (as part of my work role) and my observations from being a life-long industry observer tells me that we’ll more likely have hundreds of thousands of electric cars on our roads (and that isn’t very likely at all) long before the ‘auto pilot’, sci-fi vision of things automotive materialise in any significant numbers. Besides . . . there will always be plenty of folk like me for whom the enjoyment of driving lies in the practice of it as an advanced skill. We’re not very good passengers.

It’s all a bit moot, in not many years you’ll need a specialist licence to turn off the autopilot in cars.

Ceej1973 said :

I guess that last comment was sarcasm. Actually, having lived there and being married to a German, I can advise that they (sic) can only obtain a licence through learning with an instructor of a driving school. That means ZERO bad habits from friends, parents, P plate peers, which seems to be obvious in Oz. However, the fact doesnt account for selfishness and stupidity where-ever in the world.

No, ceej, that’s not sarcasm from me (for once). That’s an expression of a genuine desire. I, too, have done more than a few miles in Germany, Austria, Belgium etc etc. By virtue of a raft of other reasons and experiences I am very aware of the mechanisms by which people acquire a licence in those parts of the world. My particular favourite is the (I think German) requirement to pass an emergency brake procedure test from 200 km/hr.

The roads here would be much, much safer if everyone had to spend their three years on Ps in company with being a member of a CAMS affiliated car club, being only able to progress to an ‘open’ after having successfully competed in at least three each of club-level events on gravel, tarmac, skidpan and circuit (and have a log book signed verifying as much by an authorised person at the time of their re-test to attain said ‘open’). That would be not too disimiliar to the mechanism in Finland.

Special G said :

It’s not as bad as Germany where I lived half the cars had drivers side mirrors missing from knocking them off at high speed passing cars the other way on narrow streets.

(sigh) Oh how I dream of a Canberra in which all users of the road network are possessed of such skill and precision behind the wheel. Of course, people are actually taught to drive over there, aren’t they.

I guess that last comment was sarcasm. Actually, having lived there and being married to a German, I can advise that they (sic) can only obtain a licence through learning with an instructor of a driving school. That means ZERO bad habits from friends, parents, P plate peers, which seems to be obvious in Oz. However, the fact doesnt account for selfishness and stupidity where-ever in the world.

Deref said :

Grrrr said :

Dear Canberra drivers: Quit signalling right when you’re going straight through a roundabout!

That’s the law.

Get your facts right. You’re supposed to signal right when you enter a roundabout and left to indicate your exit.

If more people did that there’d be fewer accidents.

No, you are not meant to signal ANYTHING as you enter a roundabout if you are going straight ahead. omg.

Deref said :

Get your facts right. You’re supposed to signal right when you enter a roundabout and left to indicate your exit.

source please?

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/sa/consol_reg/arr210/s113.html

Straight ahead = no signal (when entering the roundabout)

when once you go past the “left turn-off”, indicate left, and continue straight out of the roundabout in the same way you entered.

Deref said :

Grrrr said :

Dear Canberra drivers: Quit signalling right when you’re going straight through a roundabout!

That’s the law.

Get your facts right. You’re supposed to signal right when you enter a roundabout and left to indicate your exit.

If more people did that there’d be fewer accidents.

Er . . . no . . . no that’s not right. If one is intending to perform the ‘ole SA @ RA (straight ahead at roundabout), the signaling required is nothing upon entry, but left to exit. Indicating right on entry is supposed to be (yeah . . . right) clear indication of one proposing to take the second, third, fourth, first after one or two laps, or whatever exit. That is, the performance of anything other than SA @ RA.

Special G said :

It’s not as bad as Germany where I lived half the cars had drivers side mirrors missing from knocking them off at high speed passing cars the other way on narrow streets.

(sigh) Oh how I dream of a Canberra in which all users of the road network are possessed of such skill and precision behind the wheel. Of course, people are actually taught to drive over there, aren’t they.

Hinder St/Anthony Rolfe Ave is the worst! The problem is that the layout looks very much like a round about but people fail to see the round about sign and the broken white lines on the road in front of them to know what to do. Almost every time i’m in gunghetto I see an accident at that intersection.

Grrrr said :

Dear Canberra drivers: Quit signalling right when you’re going straight through a roundabout!
….

See example 2 in the Do you know your Roundabout Rules? pdf found on TAMS website: “When approaching a multi-lane roundabout with the intention of continuing straight ahead, approach in either the left or right hand lane (Example 2 refers) and operate the left hand indicator after entering the roundabout and continue to indicate throughout the turn.”

Deref said :

Grrrr said :

Dear Canberra drivers: Quit signalling right when you’re going straight through a roundabout!

That’s the law.

Get your facts right. You’re supposed to signal right when you enter a roundabout and left to indicate your exit.

If more people did that there’d be fewer accidents.

Get your facts straight?

You’ve got something on your face, looks a little like egg…

from the act road handbook…

When approaching a
multi-lane roundabout with the intention
of continuing straight ahead, approach in
either the left or right hand lane (Example
2 refers) and operate the left hand
indicator when leaving the roundabout.
Entering a roundabout
It is not a requirement to indicate before
ENTERING a roundabout if you are
proceeding straight ahead and intend
leaving the roundabout half way around it.

luv_this_city9:20 pm 08 Feb 11

I crashed along this road, the dual one way roads confuse drivers, and they pull out in front of you.

In my case the guy was looking the other way when he pulled out..which may also have been due to him driving on a Korean licence, or being on the mobile phone, take your pick….

screaming banshee8:54 pm 08 Feb 11

Deref said :

Grrrr said :

Dear Canberra drivers: Quit signalling right when you’re going straight through a roundabout!

That’s the law.

Get your facts right. You’re supposed to signal right when you enter a roundabout and left to indicate your exit.

If more people did that there’d be fewer accidents.

You get YOUR facts right dickhead, try learning the road-rules before you shout from the rooftops that you’re right and everyone else is wrong

IF MORE PEOPLE DID THAT THERE’D BE FEWER ACCIDENTS

Seriously people of late we’ve had people that admitted they didn’t realise CTP insurance didn’t cover their car if they had an accident they haven’t got a f#cking clue about how to use roundabout. I think its about time we had regular re-testing to ensure people know the ACTUAL road rules not just the ones they think are right and the ones they think that apply to them.

Before people start whinging about being in a nanny state if people weren’t out their proving every day that the lowest common denominator is getting lower perhaps we wouldn’t need to be.

amarooresident3 said :

Consider yourself TOLD Canberra!

BTW, what makes roundabouts in Gungahlin different from anywhere else?

Nothing, it’s the low IQ of the residents which is the problem.

Deref said :

Grrrr said :

Dear Canberra drivers: Quit signalling right when you’re going straight through a roundabout!

That’s the law.

Get your facts right. You’re supposed to signal right when you enter a roundabout and left to indicate your exit.

If more people did that there’d be fewer accidents.

Wrong.

While you are supposed to indicate left to exit the roundabout; you are not supposed to initially indicate right if you are going straight through.

My biggest gripe with Canberra drivers is that so many of them feel the need to turn right at a roundabout from the left hand lane, without indicating. I’ve had so many near-misses from these idiots, especially at the Barton Hwy roundabout.
Another is when I drive on the GDE, people know it is a 60 zone but still get pissed off at and abuse me for driving at 60. They all pass me just after Aranda. Nearly all the time heading along the Tuggers parkway before Woden I will pass them all as they sit at 80 in a 100 zone in the right hand lane. Dickheads.

Grrrr said :

Dear Canberra drivers: Quit signalling right when you’re going straight through a roundabout!

That’s the law.

Get your facts right. You’re supposed to signal right when you enter a roundabout and left to indicate your exit.

If more people did that there’d be fewer accidents.

amarooresident34:53 pm 08 Feb 11

Consider yourself TOLD Canberra!

BTW, what makes roundabouts in Gungahlin different from anywhere else?

Special G said :

Canberra drivers are awesome. It’s all the blow ins from interstate who have just changed their plates over who give us a bad name.

In my case it was a blow in from another country, but that’s a different rant entirely.

Canberra drivers are awesome. It’s all the blow ins from interstate who have just changed their plates over who give us a bad name.

It’s not as bad as Germany where I lived half the cars had drivers side mirrors missing from knocking them off at high speed passing cars the other way on narrow streets.

…or you can signal correctly and still have some dingbat run into you, as happened to me on Saturday. Turns out that indicating only helps if people actually look to the right before entering the roundabout.

Dear Canberra drivers: Quit signalling right when you’re going straight through a roundabout!

Also, not indicating right until you’re half-way through the roundabout is stupid and dangerous.

Yeah Canberrans, wake up to yourselves, you hopeless drivers…. Stop smoking, get some exercise, wash more often and read a book once in a while, you pasty bunch of fatties.

End of general advice.

Keijidosha said :

On the whole, Canberra drivers have no clue when it comes to rules for 4-way unsignalled intersections.

Or roundabouts…
Or slip lanes…
Or reverse parallel parking…

Actually lets just say they have no clue period and leave it at that.

Don’t lie! I got cut off three times today, we have a clue on how to piss off other motorists and how to get in front of the car ahead, just to be stuck behind another car….

On the whole, Canberra drivers have no clue when it comes to rules for 4-way unsignalled intersections.

Or roundabouts…
Or slip lanes…
Or reverse parallel parking…

Actually lets just say they have no clue period and leave it at that.

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