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Cardboard numbers plates and a tasing

johnboy 7 September 2011 55

ACT Policing has charged a man following a pursuit in Monash last night (Tuesday, 6 September).

About 11pm Woden Patrol observed a Mazda MX6 at the intersection of Marconi Crescent and Drakeford Drive in Kambah with cardboard number plates attached.

Police attempted to perform a traffic stop on the car and when it failed to stop commenced a pursuit.

Police pursued the vehicle through the suburbs of Kambah, Wanniassa and Monash before the driver lost control of his vehicle and collided with the curb, coming to a stop in Clive Steele Avenue, Monash.

Upon exiting the vehicle the offender rushed towards the sergeant who subsequently drew and discharged his Taser.

This is the first discharge of a Taser since the August 22 roll-out of Tasers to frontline sergeants. The deployment of a Taser in the ACT is subject to an independent committee review.

The pursuit lasted eight minutes and the maximum speed reached was 140km/h.

The man received watch house bail and will face the ACT Magistrates Court on September 13 to answer various traffic related charges including, dangerous driving, drive while disqualified, exceed PCA and not obey direction of police.

[Courtesy ACT Policing]


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55 Responses to Cardboard numbers plates and a tasing
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Tooks Tooks 11:58 am 10 Sep 11

CharlieB said :

Tooks said :


It’s ‘lose’, not ‘loose’ (sorry, it’s a pet hate). How many reports of misuse have you seen in the ACT though (in the last 7 years)? If it is being misused, then it’s not legal, is it?

Cool a pedant! I made a typo (yes, really, I do know how to spell lose – but you didn’t care did you?). Next time you feel the overwhelming urge to correct someone’s comment for spelling or grammar, do yourself a favour and don’t. I have several pet hates of my own, best not to share them around though.

I mistype an extra o and you put whole words in my mouth! No I did not say ACT. No I did not say misused. I can correctly use, and completely legally drink enough alcohol to pickle my liver, I would say that is clearly abuse of alcohol. Likewise tasers can be abused, legally and without misusing them.

The information that police are working patrol cars alone does not change my view on the potential problems with tasers. The problems with working alone are not solved significantly by adding tasers to the mix, they are solved by adding another officer.

You seem to feel very strongly on the subject of tasers, I don’t particularly care but am not entirely sanguine on the issue.

As for your request for sources. No. Clearly you understand most people have better things to do than chase down sources for you to disregard. This is a comment not a thesis, or even an article, I am in no way required to source all my assertions and you are not required to believe them, or throw insults when you don’t for that matter. Of course if you want to chase down sources for all your assertions feel free, I’m moving on, bye.

Wow, what a tanty. The funniest thing about that is I wasn’t even trying to wind you up. It’s like throwing out an unbaited hook and getting a bite. Thanks for the laugh. Where did I insult you, anyway?

From what I can gather from your rant, here are your points:

“You seem to feel very strongly on the subject of tasers, I don’t particularly care but am not entirely sanguine on the issue.”

Actually, I couldn’t care less about whether police have them or not. But people come out with all kinds of unsourced information, most of which is crap.

Likewise tasers can be abused, legally and without misusing them.

Ok, so if you get shot 23 times in the face with a taser that’s ‘legal’ abuse? Cool. Like the watch house OC spray abuse years ago was legal abuse…wait, not it wasn’t. It was assault.

“As for your request for sources. No. Clearly you understand most people have better things to do than chase down sources for you to disregard.”

Lol, righto Alan “I’m not a journo so I can make shit up” Jones. Translation: “I made up stuff based on nothing and can’t be arsed spending 30 seconds on Google.” Next time, just share your opinion without making up ‘facts’ in a lame attempt to back your argument.

Henry82 Henry82 11:53 pm 09 Sep 11

guinness said :

ACT Police have had tasers for years so why the interest now?

AFAIK only Sergeants and higher actually have tasers (i could be wrong though). They’ll always be a topic for discussion, as they are a very dangerous weapon.

guinness guinness 10:45 pm 09 Sep 11

ACT Police have had tasers for years so why the interest now? They have been carried on police belts in the public arena, yes even in Civic on weekend nights, and have been used, for years. ACT Police have had tasers – now more ACT cops have tasers. Not really that big a deal is it?

KeenGolfer KeenGolfer 7:20 am 09 Sep 11

LSWCHP said :

You are a buffoon. If you had a loaded firearm on your hip, would you want to get into a wrestling match with a violent individual who could grab that firearm and shoot you with it, ending your life, leaving your children without a father and requiring your parents to bury you?

Of course you would. The idea of being killed in the street is far fetched! Who would possibly do such a thing!

Exactly. The number one priority for an officer is their own safety. There is a dude running at you in an aggressive manner, you have several seconds at best to respond, do people really think you’re going to get into a 1 on 1 wrestling match when you don’t know what weapons he may have, what he may try and do to you, what diseases this person may have, or what this person is capable of?!

That’s just ludicrous.

KeenGolfer KeenGolfer 7:13 am 09 Sep 11

CharlieB said :

The information that police are working patrol cars alone does not change my view on the potential problems with tasers. The problems with working alone are not solved significantly by adding tasers to the mix, they are solved by adding another officer.

General duties patrol cars very, very rarely work alone.

CharlieB CharlieB 10:32 pm 08 Sep 11

Tooks said :


It’s ‘lose’, not ‘loose’ (sorry, it’s a pet hate). How many reports of misuse have you seen in the ACT though (in the last 7 years)? If it is being misused, then it’s not legal, is it?

Cool a pedant! I made a typo (yes, really, I do know how to spell lose – but you didn’t care did you?). Next time you feel the overwhelming urge to correct someone’s comment for spelling or grammar, do yourself a favour and don’t. I have several pet hates of my own, best not to share them around though.

I mistype an extra o and you put whole words in my mouth! No I did not say ACT. No I did not say misused. I can correctly use, and completely legally drink enough alcohol to pickle my liver, I would say that is clearly abuse of alcohol. Likewise tasers can be abused, legally and without misusing them.

The information that police are working patrol cars alone does not change my view on the potential problems with tasers. The problems with working alone are not solved significantly by adding tasers to the mix, they are solved by adding another officer.

You seem to feel very strongly on the subject of tasers, I don’t particularly care but am not entirely sanguine on the issue.

As for your request for sources. No. Clearly you understand most people have better things to do than chase down sources for you to disregard. This is a comment not a thesis, or even an article, I am in no way required to source all my assertions and you are not required to believe them, or throw insults when you don’t for that matter. Of course if you want to chase down sources for all your assertions feel free, I’m moving on, bye.

LSWCHP LSWCHP 9:21 pm 08 Sep 11

fgzk said :

Tooks having a gun is always going to draw unwanted attention. Trained in Victoria in the 1990’s did we. Shoot first and lose the reports later. To expect every deranged motorist to be armed with a hand gun or want your gun seems a bit far fetched. Unless its the 90s in VIC of course.

You are a buffoon. If you had a loaded firearm on your hip, would you want to get into a wrestling match with a violent individual who could grab that firearm and shoot you with it, ending your life, leaving your children without a father and requiring your parents to bury you?

Of course you would. The idea of being killed in the street is far fetched! Who would possibly do such a thing!

Imbecile.

Pork Hunt Pork Hunt 7:13 pm 08 Sep 11

fgzk said :

Cool. Then if I’m to be indulged. The increased use of force on the community only adds to more stupidities in the name of revenge or whatever. The more brutal the treatment of the community , the more brutal the community. Works both ways.

My read of this one would be that cardboard number plates are a nuts thing to do. Chalk one up for tasering the mentally ill. We should keep count.

Or shoot the mentally ill as per the Chapman case all those years ago that was so recently on the front page of the local rag.

Which way do you want it fzgk?

milkman milkman 11:27 am 08 Sep 11

Tooks said :

p1 said :

Tooks said :

Lots of police work alone. Given what you know now, does that change your opinion on the taser use?

I’ve often found it interesting that police can and do frequently work alone, totally at odds with the sort of industrial safety rules that control any other even mildly dangerous jobs.

But I guess it is a case of cost vrs benefit to the community vrs safety of the employee…

I think in Qld (and possibly other states) they don’t allow one man patrols. Not here though.

I think I heard some time ago that one man patrols work because a single officer is more likely to call for assistance than attempt to resolve a situation alone. Very second hand info, though.

fgzk fgzk 10:57 am 08 Sep 11

Cool. Then if I’m to be indulged. The increased use of force on the community only adds to more stupidities in the name of revenge or whatever. The more brutal the treatment of the community , the more brutal the community. Works both ways.

My read of this one would be that cardboard number plates are a nuts thing to do. Chalk one up for tasering the mentally ill. We should keep count.

Tooks Tooks 10:37 am 08 Sep 11

p1 said :

Tooks said :

Lots of police work alone. Given what you know now, does that change your opinion on the taser use?

I’ve often found it interesting that police can and do frequently work alone, totally at odds with the sort of industrial safety rules that control any other even mildly dangerous jobs.

But I guess it is a case of cost vrs benefit to the community vrs safety of the employee…

I think in Qld (and possibly other states) they don’t allow one man patrols. Not here though.

p1 p1 10:29 am 08 Sep 11

Tooks said :

Lots of police work alone. Given what you know now, does that change your opinion on the taser use?

I’ve often found it interesting that police can and do frequently work alone, totally at odds with the sort of industrial safety rules that control any other even mildly dangerous jobs.

But I guess it is a case of cost vrs benefit to the community vrs safety of the employee…

p1 p1 10:26 am 08 Sep 11

Tooks said :

Source/link? Not saying you’re wrong, but I’ve asked the same of other people who’ve made the same claim, and they couldn’t source it.

Seems to be at least a handful of cases out there.

However, quickly scanning some abstracts, it seems in a lot of the cases quoted an autopsy determined that the person had an underlying/pre-existing condition. Seems pretty obvious to me, that if you have severe asthma or a heart condition, don’t go getting your self OC sprayed.

Tooks Tooks 10:00 am 08 Sep 11

No I don’t really think they chased him just to taser. I do think the high speed chase was inadvisable and was probably the most dangerous part of the whole episode.

Can’t argue with your point that the pursuit was the most dangerous part – that’s a no brainer. The alternative is any drink driver (or any other offender) would simply just fail to stop to avoid apprehension. Don’t want a ticket for speeding? Keep driving. Don’t want to stop for an RBT, keep driving.

Every one of these non-lethal weapons has been sold to the public as a replacement for shooting.

Source? Sorry, but that’s bullshit.

If these are myths, then the police have made zero effort to prevent them being perpetuated before the tasers were brought in.

Why should they? If people want to know the facts, they can read for themselves.

I won’t loose any sleep over this guy’s taserirng, however, as someone else said – tasers have been abused in other places (whether the use was legal or not).

It’s ‘lose’, not ‘loose’ (sorry, it’s a pet hate). How many reports of misuse have you seen in the ACT though (in the last 7 years)? If it is being misused, then it’s not legal, is it?

Physical restraint was only one option, depending on you physique I might easily restrain you – or have no chance if you’re much larger/stronger than me. Not knowing the officer or the perp I only offered it as another option the police have.

Yeah, an extremely poor option. You couldn’t easily restrain me, no matter what my physique is. If you think you’ll always beat a smaller opponent, then I can only assume you have no experience in fighting. I outweigh Kostya Tzu by 30 or 40kg – you think I’d have any chance against him? I don’t. Any cop who goes hands on in a one-on-one situation, not knowing whether the offender is armed or not, is taking a huge gamble. Get in a good scrape with an offender who has Hep C (or another nasty disease) and you might find yourself with a nervous wait while your blood test results come through.

I’ve only since heard the officer was alone, which seems strange to me, that should be reviewed – police should not work alone, ever. Working alone is unsafe for the police.

Lots of police work alone. Given what you know now, does that change your opinion on the taser use?

fgzk fgzk 9:59 am 08 Sep 11

Tooks having a gun is always going to draw unwanted attention. Trained in Victoria in the 1990’s did we. Shoot first and lose the reports later. To expect every deranged motorist to be armed with a hand gun or want your gun seems a bit far fetched. Unless its the 90s in VIC of course.

fgzk fgzk 9:41 am 08 Sep 11

The AFP should just release the video footage of the incident, then we could see the threat posed by the individual. Wait…… they cant because our taser are not fitted with cameras. Anything can happen when the cameras not rolling.

Tooks Tooks 9:41 am 08 Sep 11

shadow boxer said :

There’s lots wrong with this story.

Why did we have a high speed pursuit from Kambah to Monash reaching speeds of 140kmh for 8 minutes putting every road user in mortal danger and why was it necessary for a police Sergeant to Taser an unarmed single offender in order to make an arrest.

If this was routine traffic stop there appears no justification for putting the general public in this sort of danger.

Your first point is just part of the never-ending debate into police pursuits, which I won’t get into here. Not every road user was on the road at the time (I know I wasn’t), so not every road user was put in mortal danger.

On your second point, in a one-on-one situation, see if you can take down an offender without either one of you getting hurt. You’d want to be pretty confident in your own abilities and pretty confident he didn’t have a knife (or worse) tucked into the back of his pants when you get in a wrestle. If he gets your gun, it’s game over.

CharlieB CharlieB 9:34 am 08 Sep 11

Tooks said :

You really believe they pursued him so they could use a taser? Hopefully not.

1) Tasers were not brought in to replace deadly force
2) The officer doesn’t need to be in fear for his life to use it. Where did that myth come from?
3) Capsicum spray would be a bad option in that case. A baton would cause injury to the offender.

Physical restraint? I’ll tell you what, I’ll charge at you one on one and see if you can restrain me without getting hurt.
4) Capsicum spray was never supposed to replace lethal force. That’s ridiculous.

Not having a go at you, but let’s not perpetuate some of the myths out there. Bottom line is, the offender suffered five seconds of pain and neither he, nor any police, were injured. Is that not a good outcome?

No I don’t really think they chased him just to taser. I do think the high speed chase was inadvisable and was probably the most dangerous part of the whole episode.
Every one of these non-lethal weapons has been sold to the public as a replacement for shooting. Any shooting that occurs when a new weapon is being considered is posed as a ‘wouldn’t it have been better to taser them than kill them’ scenario. Sure I’m glad the police didn’t shoot the jerk, that would have been way out of proportion.
If these are myths, then the police have made zero effort to prevent them being perpetuated before the tasers were brought in.
I won’t loose any sleep over this guy’s taserirng, however, as someone else said – tasers have been abused in other places (whether the use was legal or not).
Physical restraint was only one option, depending on you physique I might easily restrain you – or have no chance if you’re much larger/stronger than me. Not knowing the officer or the perp I only offered it as another option the police have.
I’ve only since heard the officer was alone, which seems strange to me, that should be reviewed – police should not work alone, ever. Working alone is unsafe for the police.

Tooks Tooks 9:31 am 08 Sep 11

Regarding capsicum and battons, both can inflict severe injury. In fact people have died from being sprayed by OC.

Source/link? Not saying you’re wrong, but I’ve asked the same of other people who’ve made the same claim, and they couldn’t source it.

OC is also not washed away easily with water and requires a special eye wash. Even then, the effects can reportedly be felt for anything from hours to many days afterwards.

It does not require a special eye wash – that’s simply untrue.

shadow boxer shadow boxer 8:15 am 08 Sep 11

There’s lots wrong with this story.

Why did we have a high speed pursuit from Kambah to Monash reaching speeds of 140kmh for 8 minutes putting every road user in mortal danger and why was it necessary for a police Sergeant to Taser an unarmed single offender in order to make an arrest.

If this was routine traffic stop there appears no justification for putting the general public in this sort of danger.

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