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Chic Henry and the tram to nowhere?

Mike Jeffreys 19 April 2016 110

light rail artist impression

I’ve had a couple of long conversations with Summernats’ Chic Henry, who is tossing up whether to run in the 2016 ACT election.

He told me that the Liberals want him to stand but one of the reasons he hasn’t yet committed is his age. If he were fifteen years younger he’d have no hesitation, but as it is he’s unsure.

He will make a decision by September or October to leave himself time to do what’s needed, including grass roots pre-election work like knocking on doors.

Chic has quite a lot to say about the light rail plan and the possible closure of EPIC:

“There is more value in promoting the very notion of electric cars, trucks and buses in Canberra to support the clean future.

It was moving along for a while and stalled and as usual, unless people of some consequence drive it, it dies. The late Chris Peters had that vision.

A tram to the airport is wasted effort. There is not likely to be enough housing to support it and as for increased tourist visits, the sun may rise in the west before that time.

Canberra airport has great value as a freight hub especially if a VFT is to ever come to us. On another subject, the MAGLEV Consortium had the best plan, as it was to go towards the Snowy Mountains as a route to Melbourne. Good value in that.

If the proposed light rail for Canberra is to be built, the Community deserves to be shown the extent of the network, especially the proposed corridors. Without doubt, we can expect that Civic will be the hub from which all lines will radiate, with connections to Woden and the Valley, Belconnen and Gungahlin of course.

Consideration must be given to the Parliamentary Triangle, Russell, the Airport, Fyshwick and maybe even Queanbeyan.

These corridors and the supporting bus networks must be presented if we are to believe that the Canberra Community could realistically catch the light rail instead of using their cars.

Such corridors will naturally include bridges, overpasses and possible a tunnel somewhere as well as the resumption of specific real estate.

For example, a line through or close by to the Triangle going towards the Tuggeranong Valley will face two major obstacles, the first being our precious lake and the second, the hill on which Parliament House is built.

Let’s consider the bridge, the cost, the land and the public outcry. Right now we are hearing that the cost of Stage 1 is $800 mil or thereabouts.

Guaranteed it will go north of that and it’s on relatively flat ground.

Imagine what the next stage/s will cost.

We are hearing that EPIC may close and the land dedicated to housing. It is without doubt, valuable real estate but where will EPIC be then located?

What might be the cost of such relocation plus the cost of a suitable patch of ground?

Seriously, it is inconceivable that Canberra does not have a showground, especially one as amazingly multi-purpose as EPIC.

We are led to believe that we, as a community, have above average intelligence.

It is immensely important to visualise the future for town planners, so why not give us the big planning picture with reasonable costing and a time frame.

Just maybe, we might get it. Sadly though, we must suffer the political games that parties play.

The late Martin Luther King once said, ‘I have a dream’.

Chic Henry, proud Canberra resident, says ‘I have a fear. A fear that Capital Metro Stage 1 may be the tram to nowhere as the only stage ever built’”.


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110 Responses to Chic Henry and the tram to nowhere?
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dungfungus dungfungus 8:20 am 06 Mar 15

HiddenDragon said :

watto23 said :

HiddenDragon said :

No reflection on Chic Henry, but by next October, there’ll be plenty of Canberrans ready to vote for the proverbial drover’s dog if he, she or it promised to stop the trams.

Why didn’t they vote against them at the previous election then. The Labor party took this policy to an election.

Could it possibly be the case that some of the people who didn’t vote against it did so because they didn’t really think that such epic idiocy could get beyond the “planning” and “feasibility stage” – a bit like the people who swallowed the “don’t you worry about that” reassurances on the rates/stamp duty tradeoff….

Having come back to this thread after a couple of days absence, I am fascinated to learn that we apparently don’t have, and never have had, dedicated bus lanes anywhere in the ACT, and that planning is a shambles, and that we have weird, windy roads that go nowhere etc. etc. If only we had some outfit to co-ordinate such matters…..like, oh, I don’t know, maybe a National Capital Development Commission (but that would be inconsistent with the wondrous flowering of democracy, which we all love very dearly).

While it may be true that we don’t have any dedicated bus lanes we should give credit to Simon Corbell for trying to build one from Belconnen Town Centre to Canberra City about 10 years ago.
He was howled down by every self-interest group in Canberra.
With the vision of hindsight, we should have let him proceed with it.
He is now exacting his revenge.

OpenYourMind OpenYourMind 7:14 am 06 Mar 15

Is everyone feeling a little more confident that this project won’t go over budget after seeing the $11,000 cardboard tram just unveiled?

gazket gazket 11:21 pm 05 Mar 15

ACT Labor/Greens have been re programing traffic lights the last 2/3 years to make it seem there is more road congestion in Canberra.

William Hovell Dr and Coulter Dr traffic lights were reprogrammed a few months back and now cars are backed all the way Higgins on William Hovell Dr in the Mornings.

gazket gazket 11:15 pm 05 Mar 15

rubaiyat said :

dungfungus said :

Those three road projects you nominated were actually needed.
A light rail anywhere in Canberra isn’t needed.

Says who?

That is the nub of the problem. People spend enormous amounts of money buying, housing, parking and running cars then when they sit in traffic jams burning up fossil fuels, working on their personal obessity and listening to yell back radio, they scream at their politicians:

“We NEED more roads!”

Just the traffic lights in sync would be good. It’s a rare thing to make a few sets of lights in Canberra usually you are stopping at every set of lights just as you approach the intersection.

gooterz gooterz 10:05 pm 05 Mar 15

puggy said :

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. The whole tram thing has absolutely nothing to do with solving a perceived transport problem. It’s about justifying high density redevelopment of the (lower) Flemington and Northbourne corridor. When the last apartment in the last development is sold, they’ll say “Oops, no money. Bus lanes it is then.”

That would involve a higher level of thinking than we currently have.

There is no magic man behind the curtain, there is no gold mine in Gungahlin, nor is there the certainty that this trolly bus project will ever expand.

Sorry.

puggy puggy 9:34 pm 05 Mar 15

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. The whole tram thing has absolutely nothing to do with solving a perceived transport problem. It’s about justifying high density redevelopment of the (lower) Flemington and Northbourne corridor. When the last apartment in the last development is sold, they’ll say “Oops, no money. Bus lanes it is then.”

HiddenDragon HiddenDragon 6:55 pm 05 Mar 15

watto23 said :

HiddenDragon said :

No reflection on Chic Henry, but by next October, there’ll be plenty of Canberrans ready to vote for the proverbial drover’s dog if he, she or it promised to stop the trams.

Why didn’t they vote against them at the previous election then. The Labor party took this policy to an election.

Could it possibly be the case that some of the people who didn’t vote against it did so because they didn’t really think that such epic idiocy could get beyond the “planning” and “feasibility stage” – a bit like the people who swallowed the “don’t you worry about that” reassurances on the rates/stamp duty tradeoff….

Having come back to this thread after a couple of days absence, I am fascinated to learn that we apparently don’t have, and never have had, dedicated bus lanes anywhere in the ACT, and that planning is a shambles, and that we have weird, windy roads that go nowhere etc. etc. If only we had some outfit to co-ordinate such matters…..like, oh, I don’t know, maybe a National Capital Development Commission (but that would be inconsistent with the wondrous flowering of democracy, which we all love very dearly).

rommeldog56 rommeldog56 6:24 pm 05 Mar 15

KentFitch said :

The strange thing about the light-rail proposal is that it doesn’t begin to address the actual problems, such as rubaiyat’s son trying to get from Spence to the Airport.

Or my elderly relative who shouldn’t be driving, but won’t give up her independence, or the people at the Enlighten Night Noodle Markets trying get home on Sunday, or my neighbour’s nephew out on the turps and wondering how to get home, or my partially disabled friend, a single mother trying to juggle getting kids to school, child-care, a part time job and a TAFE course; people like you and me: http://www.projectcomputing.com/resources/cacs/index.html#motivation

Sure, private cars are expensive and wasteful, and current public transport is expensive and inconvenient: people want door-to-door 24×7 on demand mobility. But as Skyring noted, self-driving cars really are just around the corner. Nissan’s CEO recommitted last week to delivering a fully self-driving model by 2020 and most auto-makers are now competing to bring the to market.

A shared fleet of autonomous cars can provide very cheap, effective, universal and egalitarian transport for Canberra, reusing our current road infrastructure much more efficiently. Here’s a simulation you can run yourself: http://www.projectcomputing.com/resources/cacs/index.html
Check out the references for the state of the technology.

I’m not a light-rail hater, but the business case is transparently flawed: http://www.projectcomputing.com/resources/cacs/faq.html#lrbc
We’d be luck to see a benefit-to-cost ratio of 0.4 – it makes no sense for Canberra. Economics is about priorities. You may have seen David Murray talking about the advantages of spending on early-intervention on eating disorders this week: an economic benefit-to-cost ratio of 5: http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2015/s4189924.htm Will our government claim it has no extra money to spend on health and education whilst squandering public assets and future rates on a white elephant?

Sadly, our politicians seem to lack the rigour to consider the real problems, the courage to seek solutions not emerging from a forgotten ideology or dictated to them by carpet-baggers, and the vision and administrative skills to develop and implement a coherent plan, but if I’m wrong and such a politician does exist, please make yourself known so that I can vote for you!

Well said KentFitch – a well reasoned and supported article.

So, why this ACT Labor/Greens Gov’t is bulldozing the Light Rail through is dumbfounding – and more probably, totally incompetent. They have clearly lost touch with reality.

Re voting in 2016 : I don’t think that its about who or what party u vote for anymore. To me, its more like NOT voting for Labor/Greens and so send a clear message to any alternative ACT Government/Independent that dfecisions such as this (and others they have made) are unacceptable – and any new ACT Gov’t will also be thrown out if they also make stupid decisions and dont get their fiscal priorities even vaguely right.

If the current ACT Labor/Greens Gov’t isn’t thrown out at the 2016 election, all we are going to get is yet more of the same I’m afraid – for a long, long time too.

pete74au pete74au 4:13 pm 05 Mar 15

I have to agree whole heartedly with Chic. There has been scant planning around the deployment of public transport across the ACT. The Gungahlin tram has to be fed by buses or cars for residents to access the station, the trip to Civic will take considerably longer than a drive and not have the convenience or flexibility of private transport.
The freight hub has been my dream for nearly a decade, but I’ve seen little movement around making it a reality apart from the Majura Parkway (an excellent investment). There are many better investments in infrastructure that would give the ACT a real return on investment and a stake in the future of as a regional centre for for freight and passenger movement.

KentFitch KentFitch 3:35 pm 05 Mar 15

The strange thing about the light-rail proposal is that it doesn’t begin to address the actual problems, such as rubaiyat’s son trying to get from Spence to the Airport.

Or my elderly relative who shouldn’t be driving, but won’t give up her independence, or the people at the Enlighten Night Noodle Markets trying get home on Sunday, or my neighbour’s nephew out on the turps and wondering how to get home, or my partially disabled friend, a single mother trying to juggle getting kids to school, child-care, a part time job and a TAFE course; people like you and me: http://www.projectcomputing.com/resources/cacs/index.html#motivation

Sure, private cars are expensive and wasteful, and current public transport is expensive and inconvenient: people want door-to-door 24×7 on demand mobility. But as Skyring noted, self-driving cars really are just around the corner. Nissan’s CEO recommitted last week to delivering a fully self-driving model by 2020 and most auto-makers are now competing to bring the to market.

A shared fleet of autonomous cars can provide very cheap, effective, universal and egalitarian transport for Canberra, reusing our current road infrastructure much more efficiently. Here’s a simulation you can run yourself: http://www.projectcomputing.com/resources/cacs/index.html
Check out the references for the state of the technology.

I’m not a light-rail hater, but the business case is transparently flawed: http://www.projectcomputing.com/resources/cacs/faq.html#lrbc
We’d be luck to see a benefit-to-cost ratio of 0.4 – it makes no sense for Canberra. Economics is about priorities. You may have seen David Murray talking about the advantages of spending on early-intervention on eating disorders this week: an economic benefit-to-cost ratio of 5: http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2015/s4189924.htm Will our government claim it has no extra money to spend on health and education whilst squandering public assets and future rates on a white elephant?

Sadly, our politicians seem to lack the rigour to consider the real problems, the courage to seek solutions not emerging from a forgotten ideology or dictated to them by carpet-baggers, and the vision and administrative skills to develop and implement a coherent plan, but if I’m wrong and such a politician does exist, please make yourself known so that I can vote for you!

Skyring Skyring 3:32 pm 05 Mar 15

dungfungus said :

You are again confusing public transport (trams) with private transport Cars).
Trams and metros for the masses were established in European cities 100 years ago because cars were only available to the very wealthy. Accordingly, the high density apartments that were built along the cities main thoroughfares did not have any accommodation for cars. Have you ever noticed how few cars there are parked in the streets of Paris?

That’s because they are all circling the Arc de Triomphe, trying to escape.

And when they park, they really park. Those bumpers aren’t there to look pretty and get polished up, no, they are there for touch parking.

The preferred motor vehicle transport for Parisians is the Vespa. Paris has seven times as many people in the City itself, but fewer cars.

And, um, no trams.

rosscoact rosscoact 2:40 pm 05 Mar 15

dungfungus said :

rosscoact said :

dungfungus said :

rosscoact said :

dungfungus said :

dlenihan said :

switch said :

rubaiyat said :

$27 million didn’t even pay for that one intersection at Russell.

Given the rates we pay the ACT government can certainly do some public transport for our money.

Public transport that isn’t a total financial loss like the roads.

Why do people struggle with simple comparisons?

Is it the maths? Having to add up anything bigger than the cost of a bus fare?

It isn’t public transport per se, it is the fact that busses could do what the tram is offering for about half the price. A report that came out last year shows that, along with common sense.

That’s what annoys me so much. It will most likely cost 1 billion in the end to replicate a service the busses already provide.

Imagine if this money was used to upgrade the entire bus net ACT-wide, more bus lanes. dedicated flyovers, etc. rather than a tram which seems to be more about the upgrade of Northborne Ave by stealth than a realistic transport option or the city.

It’s great to see so many new tram sceptics on this thread.
Alas, all to late I fear.

Aww, come on, don’t give up. Surely you are going to lead a march on the Assembly, have Alistair Coe address the throng, placards, banners insulting MLAs, effigies burning?

I am disappointed.

“…. placards, banners insulting MLAs, effigies burning…..”
No, I leave that sort of behaviour to the loony-left and their mates in the militant trade unions.

Ah, I see. That whole ‘Burn the witch’ thing didn’t happen then? You have to own the good and the bad if you’re going to play the man not the ball.

Please try and be accurate.
There were two signs erected behind Tony Abbott after he started a speech outside Parliament house before he won the election and became PM.
One said “ditch the witch” the other said “Bob Browns (sic) witch”. There was no “burn the witch” sign.

My apologies, I wasn’t there. Did you enjoy the event?

dungfungus dungfungus 2:14 pm 05 Mar 15

rosscoact said :

dungfungus said :

rosscoact said :

dungfungus said :

dlenihan said :

switch said :

rubaiyat said :

$27 million didn’t even pay for that one intersection at Russell.

Given the rates we pay the ACT government can certainly do some public transport for our money.

Public transport that isn’t a total financial loss like the roads.

Why do people struggle with simple comparisons?

Is it the maths? Having to add up anything bigger than the cost of a bus fare?

It isn’t public transport per se, it is the fact that busses could do what the tram is offering for about half the price. A report that came out last year shows that, along with common sense.

That’s what annoys me so much. It will most likely cost 1 billion in the end to replicate a service the busses already provide.

Imagine if this money was used to upgrade the entire bus net ACT-wide, more bus lanes. dedicated flyovers, etc. rather than a tram which seems to be more about the upgrade of Northborne Ave by stealth than a realistic transport option or the city.

It’s great to see so many new tram sceptics on this thread.
Alas, all to late I fear.

Aww, come on, don’t give up. Surely you are going to lead a march on the Assembly, have Alistair Coe address the throng, placards, banners insulting MLAs, effigies burning?

I am disappointed.

“…. placards, banners insulting MLAs, effigies burning…..”
No, I leave that sort of behaviour to the loony-left and their mates in the militant trade unions.

Ah, I see. That whole ‘Burn the witch’ thing didn’t happen then? You have to own the good and the bad if you’re going to play the man not the ball.

Please try and be accurate.
There were two signs erected behind Tony Abbott after he started a speech outside Parliament house before he won the election and became PM.
One said “ditch the witch” the other said “Bob Browns (sic) witch”. There was no “burn the witch” sign.

rommeldog56 rommeldog56 1:38 pm 05 Mar 15

rubaiyat said :

rommeldog56 said :

And in the meantime, the ACT Labor/Greens Gov’t will have locked Territiory ratepayers & voters into a 25+ year Public Private Partnership for an inflexible route that carries a 100 year old transport concept, called a Tram. Very logical & visionary. Thats great, just great.

Isn’t the car a “100 year old transport concept”?

I meant to say a “100 year old mass transport concept like the tram”. Just left out the word “mass”.

tim_c tim_c 12:29 pm 05 Mar 15

Skyring said :

rubaiyat said :

Didn’t stop the Liberals building a billion dollar Parliament House on the Hill back when a billion wasn’t loose change…

This would be the Parliament House opened in 1988 by the government led by Bob Hawke, midway through his second term?

As a Liberal, apparently.

Even if it were true, there is a bit of difference between the Federal Government spending that sort of money on a National icon, and a city council spending it on a single stage of a transport network (which at best, will only supplement the existing bus network).

rosscoact rosscoact 9:43 am 05 Mar 15

dungfungus said :

rosscoact said :

dungfungus said :

dlenihan said :

switch said :

rubaiyat said :

$27 million didn’t even pay for that one intersection at Russell.

Given the rates we pay the ACT government can certainly do some public transport for our money.

Public transport that isn’t a total financial loss like the roads.

Why do people struggle with simple comparisons?

Is it the maths? Having to add up anything bigger than the cost of a bus fare?

It isn’t public transport per se, it is the fact that busses could do what the tram is offering for about half the price. A report that came out last year shows that, along with common sense.

That’s what annoys me so much. It will most likely cost 1 billion in the end to replicate a service the busses already provide.

Imagine if this money was used to upgrade the entire bus net ACT-wide, more bus lanes. dedicated flyovers, etc. rather than a tram which seems to be more about the upgrade of Northborne Ave by stealth than a realistic transport option or the city.

It’s great to see so many new tram sceptics on this thread.
Alas, all to late I fear.

Aww, come on, don’t give up. Surely you are going to lead a march on the Assembly, have Alistair Coe address the throng, placards, banners insulting MLAs, effigies burning?

I am disappointed.

“…. placards, banners insulting MLAs, effigies burning…..”
No, I leave that sort of behaviour to the loony-left and their mates in the militant trade unions.

Ah, I see. That whole ‘Burn the witch’ thing didn’t happen then? You have to own the good and the bad if you’re going to play the man not the ball.

dungfungus dungfungus 9:00 am 05 Mar 15

rommeldog56 said :

Skyring said :

rubaiyat said :

dungfungus said :

I don’t know which planet you have been living on but it is certainly not Canberra.
Canberra is the easiest place in the world to travel by car – this is the dividend of designing a city where the private car is the principal method of transport.
Sure, there are short periods of congestion but no gridlock.
I don’t know where you got the idea that car ownership is falling either..

I don’t know what planet YOU are living on but I’m on the one that’s suffering from the profligate burning of fossil fuels.

Canberra has a measly 380,000 people yet it can take a ridiculous amount of time crossing it because everything is so far apart. To compound that the traffic in and around Northbourne Ave in peak hours is getting up to the congestion of much larger cities.

Distance isn’t that important when the roads are good and the traffic sparse. As a night cabbie, I’d whip around the city after hours – at legal speeds – and find it a pleasure. Civic to Dickson in four minutes was a regular trip, and there’s little in Canberra that’s more than fifteen minutes away.

During the day, when there’s traffic on the road, it’s different, of course.

Which is where new driving technologies will come into play. Electric cars are a given, of course. Traffic will no longer generate localised fumes and noise.

Self-driving cars are perfect for Canberra’s long avenues. Parking won’t be a problem, because they can be sent off alone to dedicated parking areas rather than clutter up the city.

Ride sharing and other apps will also help reduce traffic.

All this will take time, but we’re seeing new developments every week. Tesla is quickly becoming a legendary name in the world of electric cars, Google’s autonomous driving machines are legal in some cities, and apps such as Uber and Lyft are appearing with every refresh.

Taken together, these will reduce traffic volume, increase speed and bring Canberra back to being a drivable city.

At all times, not just the hours either side of midnight.

And in the meantime, the ACT Labor/Greens Gov’t will have locked Territiory ratepayers & voters into a 25+ year Public Private Partnership for an inflexible route that carries a 100 year old transport concept, called a Tram. Very logical & visionary. Thats great, just great.

It’s a tram line to Perdition.

dungfungus dungfungus 8:58 am 05 Mar 15

rubaiyat said :

rommeldog56 said :

And in the meantime, the ACT Labor/Greens Gov’t will have locked Territiory ratepayers & voters into a 25+ year Public Private Partnership for an inflexible route that carries a 100 year old transport concept, called a Tram. Very logical & visionary. Thats great, just great.

Isn’t the car a “100 year old transport concept”?

You are again confusing public transport (trams) with private transport Cars).
Trams and metros for the masses were established in European cities 100 years ago because cars were only available to the very wealthy. Accordingly, the high density apartments that were built along the cities main thoroughfares did not have any accommodation for cars. Have you ever noticed how few cars there are parked in the streets of Paris?
Canberra was designed and built for people to use private cars.

dungfungus dungfungus 8:43 am 05 Mar 15

Skyring said :

dungfungus said :

Getting to and from the airport from anywhere has been a chronic problem.
Until the Majura express-way is finished your son will have to allow more time for travel just as everyone else does.
I believe there are over 10,000 people commuting to and from the airport precinct every day. A lot of people from the east of Canberra also use the roads around the airport to get to and from the other areas in Canberra.
Maybe the tram service should be from Gunghalin to the airport where there is a mass transport problem.

The airport’s been a hassle for three reasons.
First, there’s the regular airport traffic. As a cabbie, there’s a lot of regular work to and from the city and the Parliamentary zone, particularly when Parliament is sitting. Plus the airport workers.
Second, there’s two conflicting streams of traffic: to and from Gungahlin, to and from Queanbeyan. The Fyshwick traffic slots in there as well. The Gungahlin traffic up Majura Road steadily increased over the years because the alternatives were packed.
Third, the growing amount of offices and shops at the airport.

The old roundabouts used to be a nightmare. I’d often have a passenger in the cab, sweating on their flight, and there would be nothing I could do to go any faster. No alternate routes – we just had to crawl through the traffic.

The situation has improved over the years, but of course with each improvement comes more traffic. The Majura Parkway should be a major improvement in that it will allow east-west and north-south traffic streams to flow smoothly without having to regualrly give way to each other.

The airport is one destination that cries out for a better bus service. Instead, cabs and private cars are encouraged – because each time they park or use the cabyard, a fee is paid to the airport.

Ironically, the precinct is primarily an airport but the airline passenger traffic is in decline.
Having said that, one must admire the commercial acumen of the Snow family in crystallising the commercial and retail potential of the airport’s open spaces. The new hotel will undoubtedly be a success and be a welcome assist for regional tourism.
It is only a matter of time before the residential area (old RAAF residences) are developed into quality apartments and such a development would compliment a modern version of light rail to connect with the Labor government’s version of a tram service using 100 year old technology.
There is scope for the airport to become Canberra integrated transport hub to include rail, buses and road/air freight.
Ratepayers would do well to outsource the governance of the ACT to the Snow family.

dungfungus dungfungus 8:29 am 05 Mar 15

rosscoact said :

dungfungus said :

dlenihan said :

switch said :

rubaiyat said :

$27 million didn’t even pay for that one intersection at Russell.

Given the rates we pay the ACT government can certainly do some public transport for our money.

Public transport that isn’t a total financial loss like the roads.

Why do people struggle with simple comparisons?

Is it the maths? Having to add up anything bigger than the cost of a bus fare?

It isn’t public transport per se, it is the fact that busses could do what the tram is offering for about half the price. A report that came out last year shows that, along with common sense.

That’s what annoys me so much. It will most likely cost 1 billion in the end to replicate a service the busses already provide.

Imagine if this money was used to upgrade the entire bus net ACT-wide, more bus lanes. dedicated flyovers, etc. rather than a tram which seems to be more about the upgrade of Northborne Ave by stealth than a realistic transport option or the city.

It’s great to see so many new tram sceptics on this thread.
Alas, all to late I fear.

Aww, come on, don’t give up. Surely you are going to lead a march on the Assembly, have Alistair Coe address the throng, placards, banners insulting MLAs, effigies burning?

I am disappointed.

“…. placards, banners insulting MLAs, effigies burning…..”
No, I leave that sort of behaviour to the loony-left and their mates in the militant trade unions.

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