Christmas and Cocos Islands – WTF?

chewy14 said :

HenryBG said :

chewy14 said :

If the Liberals really cared about stopping the boats they would have supported the Malaysian solution when Labor proposed it but rejected it for political reasons.

If you compare the numbers in detention as a result of Labor policy compared with the numbers in detention under Howard, you can see the Liberals’ policies clearly result in less detention.

Not detaining people who enter the country illegally is simply not an option.
Illegal entrants are in detention because of their choice of entering the country illegally, and their continued choice to remain in detention rather than go home.

Yes, the former Labor policy clearly led to more people being in detention due to pull factors. It was a massive policy mistake. The opening of Manus and rejection of Australian resettlement for any arrivals has clearly dropped that number to previous low levels. Labor implemented that policy and the Liberals have continued it. Labor fixed a problem of their own making and Abbott is now taking all the credit. Funny game politics.

My point with regards to mandatory detention and processing however is the only reason it is necessary is because of our obligations under the Refugee Convention which is completely out of date. If we amended the refugee convention or removed ourselves as a signatory nation then their would be no need for the long term mandatory detention of asylum seekers because we would have no obligations to those arriving illegally by boat. It would remove all of the pull factors for those coming from multiple countries and transiting through Indonesia to Australia.

” Labor fixed a problem of their own making ……..”
Sorry, I must have missed how many boats Labor turned back. Could you tell me again please?

HenryBG said :

chewy14 said :

If the Liberals really cared about stopping the boats they would have supported the Malaysian solution when Labor proposed it but rejected it for political reasons.

If you compare the numbers in detention as a result of Labor policy compared with the numbers in detention under Howard, you can see the Liberals’ policies clearly result in less detention.

Not detaining people who enter the country illegally is simply not an option.
Illegal entrants are in detention because of their choice of entering the country illegally, and their continued choice to remain in detention rather than go home.

Yes, the former Labor policy clearly led to more people being in detention due to pull factors. It was a massive policy mistake. The opening of Manus and rejection of Australian resettlement for any arrivals has clearly dropped that number to previous low levels. Labor implemented that policy and the Liberals have continued it. Labor fixed a problem of their own making and Abbott is now taking all the credit. Funny game politics.

My point with regards to mandatory detention and processing however is the only reason it is necessary is because of our obligations under the Refugee Convention which is completely out of date. If we amended the refugee convention or removed ourselves as a signatory nation then their would be no need for the long term mandatory detention of asylum seekers because we would have no obligations to those arriving illegally by boat. It would remove all of the pull factors for those coming from multiple countries and transiting through Indonesia to Australia.

HenryBG said :

chewy14 said :

If the Liberals really cared about stopping the boats they would have supported the Malaysian solution when Labor proposed it but rejected it for political reasons.

If you compare the numbers in detention as a result of Labor policy compared with the numbers in detention under Howard, you can see the Liberals’ policies clearly result in less detention.

Not detaining people who enter the country illegally is simply not an option.
Illegal entrants are in detention because of their choice of entering the country illegally, and their continued choice to remain in detention rather than go home.

On Foreign Correspondent last night there was a segment on the plight of asylum seekers from North Africa and Syria who use people smugglers to get them to Italy where most choose to move on to Western Europe (Germany, Netherlands etc.) even though the refugee convention says that they seek asylum in the first country they arrive in. Italy does not stand in their way because they don’y have the facilities to detain and process them (there are thousands every week).
The efforts of the Italian Navy in rescuing and caring for these unfortunate people are outstanding as no doubt the efforts of the Australian Navy personnel are as well.
While it wasn’t highlighted, the cost to Italy is becoming too much so they are now going to limit search and rescue to their coastal region so unless the UN can muster some search and rescue vessels, thousands of these refugees are going to perish in the Mediterranean.
It was suggested elsewhere that Australia will be the next destination for the people from these failed Muslim states however there is little likelihood that many would survive an ocean journey from that region.

chewy14 said :

If the Liberals really cared about stopping the boats they would have supported the Malaysian solution when Labor proposed it but rejected it for political reasons.

If you compare the numbers in detention as a result of Labor policy compared with the numbers in detention under Howard, you can see the Liberals’ policies clearly result in less detention.

Not detaining people who enter the country illegally is simply not an option.
Illegal entrants are in detention because of their choice of entering the country illegally, and their continued choice to remain in detention rather than go home.

chewy14 said :

HenryBG said :

chewy14 said :

To be fair, the main reason why the boats have stopped is the opening of Manus island as a detention facility and the fact that all future arrivals who were found to be refugees would be given protection there in PNG. And that happened under Rudd.

I’m not across exactly how effective this part of current policy has been at deterring illegal migrants, but let me ask you a simple question:
How much credit should a government receive for solving a problem it created itself?

The ALP’s failure to have a coherent policy led the incoming Rudd government to make very poor decisions in the Immigration portfolio with no apparent regard to the consequences.

Tony Abbott is incredibly unpopular, he is divisive, dishonest, and peddles the most mind-numbingly regressive attitudes towards science as well as social policy, and he could never win an election in his own right.
If the ALP/Greens want more Tony Abbott, all they have to do is ignore their own policy failure on illegal immigration, a policy failure that is very much in the public eye.
In virtually *every* other area, the ALP/Greens are on a winner – they are the better economic managers (by a country mile), they support investment in Australia’s future, they support the development of our energy industry, they support education, health, and workers’ rights. They conduct far better international diplomacy and generally enhance our country’s reputation (except when they try to score political points off the back of illegal immigrants).
The vast majority of Australians will be far better off under an ALP/Greens government, and most of us know it.
We also know when we’re being scammed, and Tony Abbott is the pain we’ve chosen in order to oppose the asylum-shopping industry.

They should get zero credit really and neither should the Libs. Both parties have been using this issue as a political point scoring football for years. If the Liberals really cared about stopping the boats they would have supported the Malaysian solution when Labor proposed it but rejected it for political reasons.

The policy we currently have is also only half a solution. Mandatory detention should be discontinued. It’s costly and results in enormous harm to asylum seekers. Instead Australia should lobby for the refugee convention to be updated or remove ourselves as a signatory nation.

We could then proactively choose the most in need asylum seekers from overseas camps for resettlement in Australia whilst denying protection to anyone who arrives here illegally by boat. We could help a greater amount of the most at-risk people for a lower cost whilst causing less damage to people seeking our help. Surely that would be a win-win solution for both the left and right of politics?

The Malaysian solution would have sent the country broke – it was never going to work.
You make some good points, especially giving the dated UN convention the flick.
The best way to abolish mandatory detention is for it not to be used (no more asylum seekers).
Perhaps our biggest threat to stopping asylum seekers are the so-called human rights lawyers who are constantly dreaming up ways to beat the system so we can not only open the gates but give them compensation (less fees). There is one such action in the High Court today concerning children who were born in detention who have told one lawyer they will be persecuted if they are returned to Sri Lanka. Amazing.

HenryBG said :

chewy14 said :

To be fair, the main reason why the boats have stopped is the opening of Manus island as a detention facility and the fact that all future arrivals who were found to be refugees would be given protection there in PNG. And that happened under Rudd.

I’m not across exactly how effective this part of current policy has been at deterring illegal migrants, but let me ask you a simple question:
How much credit should a government receive for solving a problem it created itself?

The ALP’s failure to have a coherent policy led the incoming Rudd government to make very poor decisions in the Immigration portfolio with no apparent regard to the consequences.

Tony Abbott is incredibly unpopular, he is divisive, dishonest, and peddles the most mind-numbingly regressive attitudes towards science as well as social policy, and he could never win an election in his own right.
If the ALP/Greens want more Tony Abbott, all they have to do is ignore their own policy failure on illegal immigration, a policy failure that is very much in the public eye.
In virtually *every* other area, the ALP/Greens are on a winner – they are the better economic managers (by a country mile), they support investment in Australia’s future, they support the development of our energy industry, they support education, health, and workers’ rights. They conduct far better international diplomacy and generally enhance our country’s reputation (except when they try to score political points off the back of illegal immigrants).
The vast majority of Australians will be far better off under an ALP/Greens government, and most of us know it.
We also know when we’re being scammed, and Tony Abbott is the pain we’ve chosen in order to oppose the asylum-shopping industry.

They should get zero credit really and neither should the Libs. Both parties have been using this issue as a political point scoring football for years. If the Liberals really cared about stopping the boats they would have supported the Malaysian solution when Labor proposed it but rejected it for political reasons.

The policy we currently have is also only half a solution. Mandatory detention should be discontinued. It’s costly and results in enormous harm to asylum seekers. Instead Australia should lobby for the refugee convention to be updated or remove ourselves as a signatory nation.

We could then proactively choose the most in need asylum seekers from overseas camps for resettlement in Australia whilst denying protection to anyone who arrives here illegally by boat. We could help a greater amount of the most at-risk people for a lower cost whilst causing less damage to people seeking our help. Surely that would be a win-win solution for both the left and right of politics?

chewy14 said :

To be fair, the main reason why the boats have stopped is the opening of Manus island as a detention facility and the fact that all future arrivals who were found to be refugees would be given protection there in PNG. And that happened under Rudd.

I’m not across exactly how effective this part of current policy has been at deterring illegal migrants, but let me ask you a simple question:
How much credit should a government receive for solving a problem it created itself?

The ALP’s failure to have a coherent policy led the incoming Rudd government to make very poor decisions in the Immigration portfolio with no apparent regard to the consequences.

Tony Abbott is incredibly unpopular, he is divisive, dishonest, and peddles the most mind-numbingly regressive attitudes towards science as well as social policy, and he could never win an election in his own right.
If the ALP/Greens want more Tony Abbott, all they have to do is ignore their own policy failure on illegal immigration, a policy failure that is very much in the public eye.
In virtually *every* other area, the ALP/Greens are on a winner – they are the better economic managers (by a country mile), they support investment in Australia’s future, they support the development of our energy industry, they support education, health, and workers’ rights. They conduct far better international diplomacy and generally enhance our country’s reputation (except when they try to score political points off the back of illegal immigrants).
The vast majority of Australians will be far better off under an ALP/Greens government, and most of us know it.
We also know when we’re being scammed, and Tony Abbott is the pain we’ve chosen in order to oppose the asylum-shopping industry.

what about lefties encouraging asylum seekers to self harm and other abhorrent allegations . Strangely quiet on the subject John ?

chewy14 said :

dungfungus said :

HenryBG said :

John Hargreaves Ex MLA said :

As for Mr Haase’s comments, I find them frightening, disgusting, red-necked and totally out of step with the general Oz population. It is more in line with the hard line approaches in totalitarian regimes, religious or otherwise.

We have today a Tony Abbott-led government as a direct result of the ALP’s shocking mismanagament of the issue of asylum-shoppers.
No single other issue had more influence on the outcome of the last election.

The general Oz population knows full well when it is being scammed, and we are certainly well aware that the asylum-shopping industry is a monstruous scam that is reducing Australia’s commitment to helping genuine refugees.

“No single other issue had more influence on the outcome of the last election”.
Spot on.
Sorting out Labor’s asylum seeker mess was one of Abbott’s election promises and Scott Morrison has delivered with military precision.
It’s ironic that the media and the opposition has given no credit to Abbott/Morrison for this but they won’t let Abbott’s “broken promises” be forgotten.
Fortunately, the people that will give Abbott the credit he deserves are the voters at the next election so the media and others can whinge all they like.

To be fair, the main reason why the boats have stopped is the opening of Manus island as a detention facility and the fact that all future arrivals who were found to be refugees would be given protection there in PNG. And that happened under Rudd.

It certainly was one of the reasons but not the main one which was physically stopping the boats and towing them back, something that Labor would never have done.
Sarah Sea-Patrol had this to say when Labor announced the Manus Island/PNG re-settlement plan last year: “The government is storming ahead with this cruel policy that is an attack on Australia’s generous heart and our global reputation,” Greens senator Sarah Hanson-Young told the Herald Sun.
Imagine what she would have said if Labor started to actually turn people back?

dungfungus said :

HenryBG said :

John Hargreaves Ex MLA said :

As for Mr Haase’s comments, I find them frightening, disgusting, red-necked and totally out of step with the general Oz population. It is more in line with the hard line approaches in totalitarian regimes, religious or otherwise.

We have today a Tony Abbott-led government as a direct result of the ALP’s shocking mismanagament of the issue of asylum-shoppers.
No single other issue had more influence on the outcome of the last election.

The general Oz population knows full well when it is being scammed, and we are certainly well aware that the asylum-shopping industry is a monstruous scam that is reducing Australia’s commitment to helping genuine refugees.

“No single other issue had more influence on the outcome of the last election”.
Spot on.
Sorting out Labor’s asylum seeker mess was one of Abbott’s election promises and Scott Morrison has delivered with military precision.
It’s ironic that the media and the opposition has given no credit to Abbott/Morrison for this but they won’t let Abbott’s “broken promises” be forgotten.
Fortunately, the people that will give Abbott the credit he deserves are the voters at the next election so the media and others can whinge all they like.

To be fair, the main reason why the boats have stopped is the opening of Manus island as a detention facility and the fact that all future arrivals who were found to be refugees would be given protection there in PNG. And that happened under Rudd.