28 April 2011

Chugger Menace: Legislative Assembly utterly inert.

| johnboy
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Chuggers on City Walk

A few weeks ago I noticed a story in the Herald Sun on moves by Melbourne City Council to bring their charity muggers, or “Chuggers”, under control. A couple of days later the Age carried a stirling defence of the chugger and the value they perform for charity.

This was interesting because back in February we proposed something similar would have some merit in Canberra, particularly City Walk where they can be verminous.

The response to our poll on the subject was emphatic and the comments similarly skewed against the chugger nuisance.

chugger poll screenshot
[Poll screenshot taken 1300 28 April 2011]

So I started asking the denizens of the Legislative Assembly what they thought. They managed to surprise me, they don’t think anything at all.

My exchange with the Greens went like this:

Johnboy: With Melbourne Council debating chugger bans do the Greens have a position in the ACT?

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/national/charity-muggers-face-bans-restrictions/story-e6frf7l6-1226036575396

Greens Spokesperson: No, at this stage the Greens in the Assembly have not received any complaints about the behaviour of charity fundraisers, known as ‘Chuggers’, in Canberra.

Johnboy: So just because you’re out of touch with community sentiment you have no position?

Greens Spokesperson: We would be happy to look at the rules and a possible code of conduct, but it is not clear that it is the same problems exist with Canberra Chuggers as the council is responding to in Melbourne.

I was taken aback, the Greens have positions on nearly everything under the sun, almost none of them anything anyone would ever have raised with them.

Here was my response from the Liberals:

At the moment there is no intention to go down the same track as what is being proposed by Melbourne City Council.

Amongst the Government there was no enthusiasm for the issue. Ministerial offices handed the enquiry from pillar to post. I had to explain to Simon Corbell’s office what a Chugger was despite that office being less than a hundred paces from the source of the problem.

And let there be no mistake there is a problem. Here’s what the chair of Canberra CBD, Peter Barclay, had to say when we asked how they would feel about more restrictions on Chuggers:

Most people that I have spoken to find it very annoying to be asked for
money on a regular basis by the very same people, in particular along City Walk and Garema Place.

Traders are reluctant to ask them to move on in case their business is targeted for damage after hours for example The Hub Newsagent at the bus interchange.

Tourists who decline to give money often are verbally abused, not a great impression to walk away with.

Returning to the sisyphean task of finding anything out of the ACT Government. The Chief Minister’s Office eventually referred my question to Simon Corbell’s Office of Regulatory Services who spat back the existing policy.

I asked if they felt the existing policy was being satisfactorily implemented and if there were any plans to change it. I was promised a response.

A week later I asked how they were going with it.

After a pause I was informed that my enquiry was now in the hands of Justice and Community Safety.

Days later a spokesperson from Simon Corbell came back to me:

Corbell spokesperson: The Office of Regulatory Services regulates the Charitable Collections Act 2003. People collecting for a charitable purpose in the street or by going door to door are required to wear identification with the licence number and name or logo of the organisation for which they are collecting. If people have any doubts about a person collecting for any purpose, they should ask for details about the charity. This may include contacting the organisation directly to ensure that the person is collecting on their behalf. If a person is still unsatisfied, they should contact the Office of Regulatory Services on 6207 0400.

Johnboy: Thanks, so can we take it that the AG is happy with the activities of charity fundraisers in City Walk and Garema Place?

Corbell Spokesperson: The Minister does not have a view on the activities of charity fundraisers in the City. Charitable collections are a regulated activity, if Canberrans have concerns about the behaviour of people seeking charitable collections they should contact the Office of Regulatory Services (ORS). If you have any concerns about the activities of charitable fundraisers the Minister would encourage you to, in the first instance, bring them to the attention of ORS.

So if you find Chuggers infuriating, or your business is being eaten by them as pedestrians flee to the regulated environs of the Canberra Centre your elected representatives neither know nor care.

Let’s be clear on how Chuggers operations work. A charity contracts a commercial organisation to fundraise on their behalf.

The commercial organisation pays young people a fraction of what they get out of the charity to employ high powered sales tactics and no small amount of guilt to extract your credit card number.

In the first year the operator keeps the majority of the money and then over a number of years the percentage of the regular deductions from your credit card that actually goes to the charity increases. In the order of five years later all the money you’re giving is actually going to the charity you’ve chosen to support, give or take what it costs to lease the CEO’s Mercedes and keep them in the style they’ve become accustomed to.

It’s a very wasteful model, but it does give charities reliable revenue streams, which some of them consider to be worth it. Smaller slices of an enlarged giving pie.

But not all charities do this, in fact very few do, and generally not local ones. I asked the RSPCA’s Michael Linke what his view of chugging is and got this response:

RSPCA takes a very strategic and long term approach to our fund raising activities. The activity of “charity mugging” is something we don’t engage in. As a charity we need to solicit donations, government funding meets about 10% of our annual budget and as such we are left with having to find about $3.6M per annum from our local community.

However in doing this we work with donors and try an engage them, we offer them options, whether it is supporting cats, dogs, native wildlife or our cruelty inspection work. We look to engage our supporters. We also offer something back through invitations to events, information evenings as well as creating events our supporters can be part of. We think of RSPCA supporters as long term supporters, not random people we pass in the street.

Look at next month’s Million Paws Walk. RSPCA has created a wonderful experience for the whole community to come together and enjoy a great day out. At the same time we raise over $160,000. This event is a classic two way event, beneficial to supporters and beneficial to the charity. Everyone feels good about the day.

Our Cup Cake Day, held in August every year, is another example of engaging with the community. The community bakes and sells cup cakes, we don’t solicit anything, it’s a passive event, everyone loves it and it raises almost $100,000. People feel engaged, people have fun and money is raised.

So no, you won’t get mugged by RSPCA volunteers soliciting a $10 or $20 gift. We value your support much more than a ten second interaction.

I can’t explain the torpor of the Legislative Assembly on this, wild conspiracy theories to drive patronage into the Canberra Centre before knocking down City Walk and Garema Place do spring to mind.

But hey, maybe tweeting @SimonCorbell next time you get chugged will get the message through, we hear he’s having a photoshoot today with CityNews to talk about the wonders of social media.

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After reading this I feel like going Chugger baiting in my lunch time….I’ll stand there wand wait to see how many from the same group approach me then ask how much money they’ve donated to the cause they are plugging.

What a fine, upstanding body the PFRA must be to be disappointed by regulations which prevent chuggers from harrassing the mentally disabled.

I was just reading an article in Yahoo! News and this is what is happening in one city in the UK in regards to the chugger menace. It would be great if these directions were implemented in the ACT:

“The PFRA (Public Fundraising Regulatory Association), which has expressed disappointment at Wolverhampton City Council’s decision, recently issued new rules charity workers must abide by. They state that fundraisers must:

• not stand within three metres of a cashpoint
• not imply that a donor can sign up ‘without commitment’
• not sign up anyone unable to give informed consent through illness, disability, or drink or drugs.
• take no more than a maximum of three steps towards a member of the public to confirm their attention and continue with an attempt at an engagement, and no more than three steps backwards where eye-contact has been made but the member of the public has not yet come to a halt, and no more than three steps alongside a member of the public where contact has been made and a negotiation to stop has been initiated.
• not place themselves directly in the path of a member of the public in such a way that they or any casual observer may reasonably construe ‘obstruction’.”

Timeboy said :

Bennop said :

Timeboy said :

Bennop said :

You’re pretty keen on this one arent you .

I’ve said it before and I’ll say i again “Just keep on walking”. If thats too much trouble, then you probably shouldnt be in public anyway.

Well that is easy to say and only easy to do if you are used to being rude and antisocial – you can just walk past another human who attempts to talk to you.

Plus, I was chugged recently while standing in a queue at the Commonwealth ATMs in Garema Place! After offering several polite reasons as to why I could not donate (any more) to the earthquake victims in Haiti, the 2 young women continued to hassle me. While standing in a queue for an ATM!

Perhaps in the future you could give some more thought to your comment rather than serving up such trite and unreasoning comments. Perhaps you are the one who should not be out in public.

I don’t consider it particularly trite nor unreasoned to suggest that if you don’t wish to speak to someone then you just keep walking. You can even say “no thanks” or “I’m late” if you want. If you even have a sense of humour (highly doubtful) you can even make it fun for everyone and say somethine like “Your my favourite. Lets travel through time”.

Empower yourself. Just because someone is there, saying something, doesn’t mean you have to enter their space.

Now that’s just silly – I can’t travel through time and won’t make that promise to a complete stranger.

And I am not entering their space. They approached me at an ATM – that’s completely inappropriate surely? I think what most people here are saying is that it would be reasonable to have some kind of sensible controls or code of conduct that the government should ask them to adhere to.

BTW – you’re the one suggesting someone who finds it uncomfortable to be approached in this manner shouldn’t be out in public. It doesn’t add up to suggest that someone who feels uncomfortable when chugged should not be out in public but to find it acceptable to allow the chuggers to behave in the way they do.

All this means is that we become a society in which we put our heads down and walk fast past each other for fear we get acosted for money. You may find it easy to ignore it, but many people find it difficult to do that especially when we are talking about victims of terrible disasters. It’s great you feel so confident to do that, but not everyone feels the same. Make room for other opinions and personalities is all I am saying, rather than tell those kind of people to not come out in public. Frankly, that is trite and insensitive.

I was referring to the more pyschological sense of space. You don’t need to engage with people just because they are saying something.

Im hope you are joking about the time traveeling thing- but I’m not so sure.

I too would think that a chugger approaching me in an ATM line would be inappropriate. But I also thing in the big scheme of risks and threats in the “danger zone” of Canberra CBD, a chugger is really nothing to get your nickers in a not about.

We have a pretty sweet civil society here in Canberra, and Australia in general. I think that we don’t need to put our heads down and walk fast in fear. I think we should stand tall and walk at whatever pace, confident that we own our streets as much as anyone else- including chuggers- who also have a right to be annoying salesy people on our streets.

I don’t consider their behaviour pleasant for me- although sometimes I do have fun with them- but neither do i find it harrasing. And I dont think it is necessary to enforce regulations for for a group of people who would either benefit from enhanced social skills, or a cup of htfu. I think the path you suggest will lead us future where we will be more likely to be looking down and hurriedly walk past each other, for fear of scaring a member of the public by -shock- talking!

I’m not condoning extreme cases such as misrepresentation or hard sales tactics on intellectually frail people, but there is a big difference between that and having someone say “Do you care about the children?”

It appears on Riot Act, in acase like this, the squeaky wheel tends to gets the grease though.

Bennop said :

Timeboy said :

Bennop said :

You’re pretty keen on this one arent you .

I’ve said it before and I’ll say i again “Just keep on walking”. If thats too much trouble, then you probably shouldnt be in public anyway.

Well that is easy to say and only easy to do if you are used to being rude and antisocial – you can just walk past another human who attempts to talk to you.

Plus, I was chugged recently while standing in a queue at the Commonwealth ATMs in Garema Place! After offering several polite reasons as to why I could not donate (any more) to the earthquake victims in Haiti, the 2 young women continued to hassle me. While standing in a queue for an ATM!

Perhaps in the future you could give some more thought to your comment rather than serving up such trite and unreasoning comments. Perhaps you are the one who should not be out in public.

I don’t consider it particularly trite nor unreasoned to suggest that if you don’t wish to speak to someone then you just keep walking. You can even say “no thanks” or “I’m late” if you want. If you even have a sense of humour (highly doubtful) you can even make it fun for everyone and say somethine like “Your my favourite. Lets travel through time”.

Empower yourself. Just because someone is there, saying something, doesn’t mean you have to enter their space.

Now that’s just silly – I can’t travel through time and won’t make that promise to a complete stranger.

And I am not entering their space. They approached me at an ATM – that’s completely inappropriate surely? I think what most people here are saying is that it would be reasonable to have some kind of sensible controls or code of conduct that the government should ask them to adhere to.

BTW – you’re the one suggesting someone who finds it uncomfortable to be approached in this manner shouldn’t be out in public. It doesn’t add up to suggest that someone who feels uncomfortable when chugged should not be out in public but to find it acceptable to allow the chuggers to behave in the way they do.

All this means is that we become a society in which we put our heads down and walk fast past each other for fear we get acosted for money. You may find it easy to ignore it, but many people find it difficult to do that especially when we are talking about victims of terrible disasters. It’s great you feel so confident to do that, but not everyone feels the same. Make room for other opinions and personalities is all I am saying, rather than tell those kind of people to not come out in public. Frankly, that is trite and insensitive.

Timeboy said :

Bennop said :

You’re pretty keen on this one arent you .

I’ve said it before and I’ll say i again “Just keep on walking”. If thats too much trouble, then you probably shouldnt be in public anyway.

Well that is easy to say and only easy to do if you are used to being rude and antisocial – you can just walk past another human who attempts to talk to you.

Plus, I was chugged recently while standing in a queue at the Commonwealth ATMs in Garema Place! After offering several polite reasons as to why I could not donate (any more) to the earthquake victims in Haiti, the 2 young women continued to hassle me. While standing in a queue for an ATM!

Perhaps in the future you could give some more thought to your comment rather than serving up such trite and unreasoning comments. Perhaps you are the one who should not be out in public.

I don’t consider it particularly trite nor unreasoned to suggest that if you don’t wish to speak to someone then you just keep walking. You can even say “no thanks” or “I’m late” if you want. If you even have a sense of humour (highly doubtful) you can even make it fun for everyone and say somethine like “Your my favourite. Lets travel through time”.

Empower yourself. Just because someone is there, saying something, doesn’t mean you have to enter their space.

colourful sydney racing identity said :

johnboy said :

colourful sydney racing identity said :

EvanJames said :

What about a list of charities who engage in acceptable fundraising? Give people an option to contribute to causes without encouraging the silvertail charities who feather their nests first and exploit chuggers?

Médecins Sans Frontières
http://www.msf.org.au/

Sadly MSF were pioneers of chugging.

Say it isn’t so. I am so disappointed.

Yep, I’ve been donating to MSF for maybe 7 years, and was initially signed up to them by a chugger. I had no idea until reading this that they may not have been getting my whole donation. It makes me pretty angry, considering when I first signed up with them I was a student and had very little money to spare.

I’m thinking of writing to them now to find out how much of my money they actually received over the years.

This is what I was talking about when I walked through Canberra’s mall yesterday. First you need to dodge the homeless and/or drunks begging and following you for about 50m past the pubs, then you have to dodge these guys. Both make a scene when you dont engage or hand over cash – the drunks with offensive language and the chuggers with loud obnoxious language that make people turn and look at you. The mall is no longer a place for people and I will avoid it as much as I can now (and subsequently the businesses unfortunately). And has anyone notice it is starting to stink a little…. Urine and stale alcohol at the end near the bus interchange.

Bennop said :

You’re pretty keen on this one arent you .

I’ve said it before and I’ll say i again “Just keep on walking”. If thats too much trouble, then you probably shouldnt be in public anyway.

Well that is easy to say and only easy to do if you are used to being rude and antisocial – you can just walk past another human who attempts to talk to you.

Plus, I was chugged recently while standing in a queue at the Commonwealth ATMs in Garema Place! After offering several polite reasons as to why I could not donate (any more) to the earthquake victims in Haiti, the 2 young women continued to hassle me. While standing in a queue for an ATM!

Perhaps in the future you could give some more thought to your comment rather than serving up such trite and unreasoning comments. Perhaps you are the one who should not be out in public.

How about a little, er, direct action?

I propose a lunchtime roster, through which each volunteer donates half their lunchtime, say, once a month, to engage the nearest chugger in a very long and involved conversation to nowhere. If we focused on one bright-shirted gang each week and thoroughly wasted their (presumably) most lucrative couple of hours, perhaps they’d get the message?
It might just provoke even more obnoxious tactics from them, but maybe an escalation will jolt our MLAs out of somnolence?

dvaey said :

Innovation said :

Out of curiosity, when do prospective donors find out about how little of their money goes to the actual charity (or are they never told)?

Out of curiosity also, if you donate say $10 to a charity through a chugger, the charity gets $5 and the company gets $5. You still receive a tax deduction receipt for $10 even though the charity only receives $5. Surely theres a massive tax scam happening here that the ATO would be interested in?

I would imagine that, for tax purposes, the whole $10 is going to the charity and they then pay $5 to the collection agency for services rendered.

At least, they could do it that way if they wanted to get around this issue. No idea if they’re actually doing it.

colourful sydney racing identity said :

johnboy said :

colourful sydney racing identity said :

EvanJames said :

What about a list of charities who engage in acceptable fundraising? Give people an option to contribute to causes without encouraging the silvertail charities who feather their nests first and exploit chuggers?

Médecins Sans Frontières
http://www.msf.org.au/

Sadly MSF were pioneers of chugging.

Say it isn’t so. I am so disappointed.

They can often be found near the the pedestrian crossing under the Canberra Centre overpass – opposite Globalize and Jay Jays’s. They are less offensive than some of the others, but they are still most definitely chugging, unfortunately.

colourful sydney racing identity said :

Say it isn’t so. I am so disappointed.

My credit card is still being clipped every month, fortunately it was long enough ago that at least the money’s going where it should now.

colourful sydney racing identity9:31 am 02 May 11

johnboy said :

colourful sydney racing identity said :

EvanJames said :

What about a list of charities who engage in acceptable fundraising? Give people an option to contribute to causes without encouraging the silvertail charities who feather their nests first and exploit chuggers?

Médecins Sans Frontières
http://www.msf.org.au/

Sadly MSF were pioneers of chugging.

Say it isn’t so. I am so disappointed.

dvaey – I know there are numerous genuine doorknockers (eg salvos red cross et al). These people perform a very valuable and genuine service. I was referring to the doorknockers that operate on a commission basis. It’s easy to tell the difference between the two types because the former will happily give you information how to donate by other means and they don’t usually ask you for ongoing credit card deductions.

PS your comment about the tax deductible amount is very interesting. I hadn’t thought about that.

I really wish something could be done about the Chuggers in City Walk. I have had enough of being chased and having to plot my way around them. It wouldn’t be so bad if it were just on the weekend but it is every lunchtime.

EvanJames said :

What about a list of charities who engage in acceptable fundraising? Give people an option to contribute to causes without encouraging the silvertail charities who feather their nests first and exploit chuggers?

Hard to go past the Salvos. There is a man who sits near at the entrance to Woolies Gungahlin who collects for them nearly every day. He is always friendly and keen for a chat whether you are donating or not. And he is typical of everyone I’ve ever encountered from the Salvos.

Had a funny experience this afternoon where I ignored people from the Cancer Council asking for donations. I told them I wasn’t interested then went straight up to the Salvos guy and gave him $20. I got a filthy look from a couple of the Cancer Council ‘volunteers’ but none confronted me about it which was a shame. I was in a cranky mood and could have done with letting off some steam…..

Innovation said :

Out of curiosity, when do prospective donors find out about how little of their money goes to the actual charity (or are they never told)?

Out of curiosity also, if you donate say $10 to a charity through a chugger, the charity gets $5 and the company gets $5. You still receive a tax deduction receipt for $10 even though the charity only receives $5. Surely theres a massive tax scam happening here that the ATO would be interested in?

Innovation said :

I regularly get door knockers seeking donations that are obviously on a similar financial arrangement.

I used to door-knock for a couple of charities (mostly red cross, salvos, etc), and can tell you that some people just do it without a financial reward. I could often collect $300-$500 in a day and every cent of that was passed onto whoever I was collecting for. Not all charity collectors are doing it for their own personal gain.

Rabbithunter4:16 pm 29 Apr 11

“Most people that i have spoken to find it very annoying to be asked for
money on a regular basis by the very same people, in particular along City Walk and Garema Place.
Traders are reluctant to ask them to move on in case their business is targeted for damage after hours for example The Hub Newsagent at the bus interchange. Tourists who decline to give money often are verbally abused, not a great impression to walk away with”

That is the quote you have included from Peter Barclay. I have just spoken to ACT Policing where I was told: “No formal complaints have been received regarding any charity workers operating in the City”.

AKA: Bollocks.

I believe you have misused Mr. Barclay’s statement; it’s pretty obvious he is talking about the unfortunate souls asking for money near the Interchange and City Walk.

Besides, it is absurd to try to imply that any Red Cross worker with their upbeat cheer would verbally abuse a tourist or target a business for damage.

So maybe remove it from your article as it doesn’t make either party look particularly informed.

Out of curiosity, when do prospective donors find out about how little of their money goes to the actual charity (or are they never told)? I regularly get door knockers seeking donations that are obviously on a similar financial arrangement. When I offer to donate by email with the charity directly I find out that the chuggers or door knockers (conveniently) don’t have (or won’t give) email or physical addresses or phone numbers or anything.

If this isn’t a concern for ACT’s ORR isn’t this an issue for the ACCC? Isn’t this misleading and deceptive conduct?

colourful sydney racing identity said :

EvanJames said :

What about a list of charities who engage in acceptable fundraising? Give people an option to contribute to causes without encouraging the silvertail charities who feather their nests first and exploit chuggers?

Médecins Sans Frontières
http://www.msf.org.au/

Sadly MSF were pioneers of chugging.

colourful sydney racing identity3:22 pm 29 Apr 11

EvanJames said :

What about a list of charities who engage in acceptable fundraising? Give people an option to contribute to causes without encouraging the silvertail charities who feather their nests first and exploit chuggers?

Médecins Sans Frontières
http://www.msf.org.au/

What about a list of charities who engage in acceptable fundraising? Give people an option to contribute to causes without encouraging the silvertail charities who feather their nests first and exploit chuggers?

I just tell any chugger that harasses me that I will no longer support that charity in any way, shape of form. I do the same for charities when they call me with depressing statistics trying to get money out of me (usually they have my details from donations I have made in the past).
Let them know you don’t appreciate the harassment with your wallet – due to the great comments by the RSPCA I will definately be participating in the Million Paw Walk and donating what I can to their work.

As someone who was a ‘chugger’ for all of 3 days in QLD, I also have no sympathy for them. I We were not paid an hourly wage at all, instead, our earnings were comission based if someone signed up. Given we were signing them up to make ongoing monthly donations, we did not get many takers. I made no money, and lost more than I could really afford by going to and from the spruiking points.

We were encouraged to take things like No-Doz to keep ourself peppy and alert, and had to stand for hours with no break. By the third day, I told them I’d been offered a position elsewhere (I hadn’t) and simply walked away. I feel a bit bad for them, but the majority of people who go into this are doing it for their own gain or because they like it, so I’m not completely heartbroken for them.

johnboy said :

Erg0 said :

On a related note, I wonder whether the ACT Government has a position on those people who push Dead Sea cosmetics in the Canberra Centre? I hear Marrickville Council had a crack at banning them, but it didn’t work out so well…

They have, at least, spent good money for their space in the Canberra Centre. Their regulation is a matter for centre management.

Since I am pretty sure they all work for Mossad, I thought ASIO should be regulating them?

Bennop said :

I’ve said it before and I’ll say i again “Just keep on walking”. If thats too much trouble, then you probably shouldnt be in public anyway.

Nice idea in theory – try that with the bloke in the blue top that was hanging around the front of Subway near the remaining sheep sculpture a couple of weeks ago. I never made eye contact, kept walking and dutifully ignored him – and this twit followed me giving his spiel and when I still didn’t pay attention his voice got louder and louder, making people turn around to look. He followed me almost all the way to the Canberra Centre entrance. Now I am not easily intimidated, so was confident enough to stop turn and tell him to F*&$^ off before walking into the Canberra Centre, but like Thumper said – what about the elderly and others who are more easily intimidated. These people are a menace.

In the meantime I am sure the RSPCA will enjoy my contribution when I take part in the Million Paws Walk in a few weeks.

colourful sydney racing identity8:20 am 29 Apr 11

georgesgenitals said :

EvanJames said :

Great comment by CEO Linke. I like giving money to the RSPCA but wouldn’t be able to if they engaged in this greedy, venial fundraising. Just look at the charities who use Chuggers and other such high-pressure outsourced fundraising. They have CEOs and boards on stratospheric salaries, huge bureacracies… bugger the lot of them.

+1. Michael Linke is a credit to his organisation.

+2 in addition to explaining to chugger charities why they are not getting any of my donations, I will tell the none chuggers why they do.

georgesgenitals6:28 pm 28 Apr 11

EvanJames said :

Great comment by CEO Linke. I like giving money to the RSPCA but wouldn’t be able to if they engaged in this greedy, venial fundraising. Just look at the charities who use Chuggers and other such high-pressure outsourced fundraising. They have CEOs and boards on stratospheric salaries, huge bureacracies… bugger the lot of them.

+1. Michael Linke is a credit to his organisation.

amarooresident3 said :

Out of interest, have you contacted the Office of Regulatory Services to complain?

Seeing as the current behaviour is policy compliant I still don’t see the point.

amarooresident35:03 pm 28 Apr 11

Out of interest, have you contacted the Office of Regulatory Services to complain?

Erg0 said :

On a related note, I wonder whether the ACT Government has a position on those people who push Dead Sea cosmetics in the Canberra Centre? I hear Marrickville Council had a crack at banning them, but it didn’t work out so well…

Don’t ever let them put that dead sea crap on you, it stinks, and it smells very very cheap. I’m pretty sure the dead sea doesn’t smell anything like that. It probably smells like a salt swamp.

johnboy said :

Erg0 said :

On a related note, I wonder whether the ACT Government has a position on those people who push Dead Sea cosmetics in the Canberra Centre? I hear Marrickville Council had a crack at banning them, but it didn’t work out so well…

They have, at least, spent good money for their space in the Canberra Centre. Their regulation is a matter for centre management.

I probably should have included a link: http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/04/20/3196154.htm?section=justin

😛

Erg0 said :

On a related note, I wonder whether the ACT Government has a position on those people who push Dead Sea cosmetics in the Canberra Centre? I hear Marrickville Council had a crack at banning them, but it didn’t work out so well…

They have, at least, spent good money for their space in the Canberra Centre. Their regulation is a matter for centre management.

Rawhide Kid Part33:55 pm 28 Apr 11

colourful sydney racing identity said :

Of course, one could always find out which charity it is and then send the said charity a frank and robust email outlining what you think of their tactics and that you will never donate to that chairty ever.

Excellent idea – and one I will take on board.

Me as well….

On a related note, I wonder whether the ACT Government has a position on those people who push Dead Sea cosmetics in the Canberra Centre? I hear Marrickville Council had a crack at banning them, but it didn’t work out so well…

Much prefer dodging a few in Civic than those who come to my house. I had 2 blokes knock on my door with the hide to tell me it’s not enough that I give cash to the Red Cross; I need to fill out a direct debit form to donate each fortnight. That is truly offensive!!

Great comment by CEO Linke. I like giving money to the RSPCA but wouldn’t be able to if they engaged in this greedy, venial fundraising. Just look at the charities who use Chuggers and other such high-pressure outsourced fundraising. They have CEOs and boards on stratospheric salaries, huge bureacracies… bugger the lot of them.

Plus they use Chuggers wearing those revolting stretchy jeans. There’s a special place in hell for such behaviour.

colourful sydney racing identity3:36 pm 28 Apr 11

Of course, one could always find out which charity it is and then send the said charity a frank and robust email outlining what you think of their tactics and that you will never donate to that chairty ever.

Excellent idea – and one I will take on board.

Bennop said :

You’re pretty keen on this one arent you .

I’ve said it before and I’ll say i again “Just keep on walking”. If thats too much trouble, then you probably shouldnt be in public anyway.

Massive alienation of the commons? Sure, I’m keen on it.

People can say no, but if they’ve got a choice between walking through the Canberra Centre where they won’t get hassled, abused, and hit with guilt trips, or copping all of that then what do you think they’re going to do?

But the Canberra Centre isn’t a truly public space, it’s owned.

Personally I”d like for public spaces to remain in public use.

colourful sydney racing identity3:19 pm 28 Apr 11

Bennop said :

You’re pretty keen on this one arent you .

I’ve said it before and I’ll say i again “Just keep on walking”. If thats too much trouble, then you probably shouldnt be in public anyway.

For me it is the misrepresentation through omission that is the problem

harvyk1 said :

As for the other ministers I doubt there is enough people who would change their vote on election day over this issue for them to care.

Probably true, this is the kind of thing that’s more likely to get attention from a city council than… whatever bastard level of government we’ve got.

I was taken aback, the Greens have positions on nearly everything under the sun, almost none of them anything anyone would ever have raised with them.

I expect the greens actually support chuggers, as the majority of causes the chuggers are collecting for, the greens themselves support. Of course publicly stating that you support chuggers methods would not go down well

As for the other ministers I doubt there is enough people who would change their vote on election day over this issue for them to care.

You’re pretty keen on this one arent you .

I’ve said it before and I’ll say i again “Just keep on walking”. If thats too much trouble, then you probably shouldnt be in public anyway.

That statement from the RSPCA demonstrates what I’ve long suspected – charities that makes use of chuggers are far more interested in your money than your support. The attempt by the writer of the Age opinion piece to bolster their defence by conflating mercenary backpackers with the old blokes selling Legacy badges is simply pathetic.

colourful sydney racing identity2:45 pm 28 Apr 11

Normally I take the view that you can just say ‘no’. However, when it comes to these people I think I have reached the view that their activities should be havily restricted, primarily because the people who do choose to donate (give their credit card details to a stranger wtf?) are being suckered in to something they don’t fully understand.

I am sure that most people would assume that all the money they donate goes to said charity rather than a third party business.

I got chuuged yesterday in Gungahlin. After yeards of daily harrassment in Garema Place I am well and truly over it.

Perhaps if we all tweet Mr Corbell and email his Chiefliness and her (sometimes acting but would really like to be) Chieliness as often as we have been harrassed by the chuggers we will get a response from our local council, sorry Territory Government.

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