Civic: more beggars and junkies than usual?

Man, they’re beggars…what did you want them to spend your ironfisted change on?! They’re not buying news cars or throwing a deck on their cardboard box house!

schmeah said :

I find that the windscreen scrubs also deliberatly target lone women in cars. I only say this because I can’t count the number of times I’ve been a sole occupant where the scrubber has come up and continued washing my car when I’ve energetically tried to wave him away .. I’ve also happened to notice them walk past cars with male occupants.

My wife says the same thing. In her Corolla she used to get her windscreen washed pretty much every time she crossed Northbourne whether she wanted it or not. She’s now in a bigger, better car and still gets it occasionally, but not as much as before.

I’m a very large bloke, driving a big car, and I’m one of those unfortunate individuals who has a mug that naturally looks a bit cranky unless I’m making a big effort to look happy. I’ve never had one of the window washer brigade come anywhere near me.

Basilbrush said :

JazzyJess said :

DrKoresh said :

I don’t mind giving a couple of bucks to someone who’s down-and-out. I don’t care if they want to spend it on booze, food or accommodation. I don’t give money to the ones who try and intimidate you into giving up shrapnel, but as long as they’re polite, or at lease, not aggressive i’m more than happy to hand over any shrapnel in my pocket.

Agreed. Once I’ve handed over my change it’s no longer up to me what it’s used for.

Me too.

It’s called ‘caving’. If you’re enabling bad behaviour, you’re not helping.

johnboy said :

Sunday night some bloke in Dickson asked me for some money for the bus.

Bumped into him in the grog shop 3 minutes later.

Oh well, hope he enjoyed it.

I had a panhandler ask me for a bus fare on the Bridge at the ANU back in the early 80’s. I gave her a few bob, and then a few minutes later I walked up behind her and her friend with their drinks. She was telling her friend what a chump I was and laughing at me.

I haven’t given one of these clowns a penny since.

JazzyJess said :

DrKoresh said :

I don’t mind giving a couple of bucks to someone who’s down-and-out. I don’t care if they want to spend it on booze, food or accommodation. I don’t give money to the ones who try and intimidate you into giving up shrapnel, but as long as they’re polite, or at lease, not aggressive i’m more than happy to hand over any shrapnel in my pocket.

Agreed. Once I’ve handed over my change it’s no longer up to me what it’s used for.

Me too.

mezza76 said :

Im equally annoyed that most ATOD services have a tendency to be referral or more on the person affected contacting them. It’s a classic case where there needs to be more outreach services for these guys to help transition them off getting wasted on cheap booze all day.

I don’t understand that first sentence. What did you mean?

Having known many addicts I’ve never seen a single one of them choose to get and stay sober due to any “outreach”. In my opinion they have to really want to do it for themselves. Many remain in total and absolute denial until their addiction or other health complications brought on by their addiction, kills them.

mezza76 said :

obamabinladen said :

One thing that pisses me off is the fact that in oz we have centrelink but we still have beggars. The thing that makes me angry is seeing a perfectly healthy young man begging.

Don’t get pissed off. There are plenty of people with some serious mental health issues that simply dont access the Centrelink system – some are happy that way. Some access little in terms of social services – the problem is finding a way to reach these people who are not in the system.

This!

I do regular work as a volunteer with Vinnies Night Patrol which goes out into the streets every night with sandwiches, drinks and the like for streeties. Most people who come and see us are seriously mentally ill with various other issues to do with alcohol and drugs. They don’t really come for the food (although sometimes they do), often its just for the human contact, someone to talk to and have a yarn with. They never ask us for money but listening to some of their stories, even if only half are true, would make your hair curl. Its a real chicken and egg situation – did their drug and alcohol taking cause their mental illness or did their pre existing mental condition cause the slide into addiction -its certainly taught me a lot about not being quick to judge

ThisIsAName said :

Recently, some bloke in Civic was hassling people for money, with a story about needing $38 for a bed in the Dickson backpackers and some food. He only wanted $ as charities couldn’t help him for some reason (which he never explained).

Are there any shelters/temporary accomodation about?

There are shelters in Canberra, but the only way to get in is to call FirstPoint central intake (1800 1PO INT) who will most likely tell you that everywhere is full. Still worth a try though – if the guy has a (working) phone they can call him back if a place opens up, or he can try again each day until he gets something.

Some centrally located churches were trying to get a thing called Safe Shelter off the ground where they each opened their hall one night a week through the winter – really basic, just a space out of the cold for the rough sleepers who have no other option. No cost to the government, volunteer run, etc etc – but all they hit was red tape. Hopefully this winter (2 years after they first started trying) they might have more success.

steveu said :

devils_advocate said :

Would be interesting to know if these squeegee-jockeys ever get “cleaned up” themselves by a car or bus.

Agreed. The “bright” idea facilitating this micro cash economy won’t seem that great when someone is run down and/or injured. See what the insurance companies do with it then. I suspect some serious back peddling by the council on this one.

+1

We should have a poll to work out whether to ban the the stupid squidgy guys (given we’ve had to go to the lengths of altering the law to allow them!).

Must make people driving into Canberra for the first time really wounder.

mezza76 said :

obamabinladen said :

One thing that pisses me off is the fact that in oz we have centrelink but we still have beggars. The thing that makes me angry is seeing a perfectly healthy young man begging.

Don’t get pissed off. There are plenty of people with some serious mental health issues that simply dont access the Centrelink system – some are happy that way. Some access little in terms of social services – the problem is finding a way to reach these people who are not in the system.

That and it’s barely possible to live on centrelink unless you’re in public housing, though I’d assume that most of these guys probably are.

devils_advocate said :

There’s one windscreen guy in particular in Dickson that is just not *that* skillful at getting out of the way. A number of times he has been oblivious to the lights changing and has had to walk across as many as 2 lanes of traffic (i.e. when cleaning a car in the leftmost lane). It’s not always easy to see him in advance especially in a low car parked behind a SUV or commercial vehicle. Probably had around 3-5 near misses involving hard application of the brakes. Doesn’t help that when the traffic banks up at that intersection people are keen to move through or miss the lights. Couple of times people have had to get right on the brakes, hold up traffic, while he makes it back to the island, to the (justifiable) irritation of people behind.

Would be interesting to know if these squeegee-jockeys ever get “cleaned up” themselves by a car or bus.

The Dickson guy has been there for a very, very long time. I remember him from when I used to work at Dickson McDonalds as a teenager – that was in 2005. That being said he has a sign up now about how he’s looking for real work.

devils_advocate said :

Would be interesting to know if these squeegee-jockeys ever get “cleaned up” themselves by a car or bus.

Agreed. The “bright” idea facilitating this micro cash economy won’t seem that great when someone is run down and/or injured. See what the insurance companies do with it then. I suspect some serious back peddling by the council on this one.

obamabinladen said :

One thing that pisses me off is the fact that in oz we have centrelink but we still have beggars. The thing that makes me angry is seeing a perfectly healthy young man begging.

Don’t get pissed off. There are plenty of people with some serious mental health issues that simply dont access the Centrelink system – some are happy that way. Some access little in terms of social services – the problem is finding a way to reach these people who are not in the system.

I actually had a kid come up to me at the Woden Interchange a few years back asking for $2 because he was just short for a bus ride- so I gave it to him…. next thing I see him asking a few other people for money! He wouldn’t have been more than 8!!

obamabinladen said :

One thing that pisses me off is the fact that in oz we have centrelink but we still have beggars. The thing that makes me angry is seeing a perfectly healthy young man begging.

Those window washes have a thing about washing atleast one window per set of lights even if you say no. They dont expect to be paid if you say no however if they do a good job for free the next time you pull up you may actually say yes.

Bloody stupid poor people … they’ve got no respect I tells ya!

DrKoresh said :

carnardly said :

I’ve got hit by the “can i have some money to buy some food” many a time. Often I reach into my bag and pull out an apple to give them that. 9 times out of 10 I get a “eff off Boitch” response.

I guess they’re not really THAT hungry then….

Maybe they were merely dedicated carnivores, and were as offender by the offer of an apple as vegetarian beggers (beggertarians) would be at the offer of a Big Mac.

Haha

*slow clap*

My windscreen gets washed every single time I’m at the lights where they are, and not once have I paid them. I always wave them away but they always do it anyway. I don’t see the point in putting the washers on or abusing them? If you’ve made it clear you don’t want it, they don’t expect payment. Just let them do it and go on your merry way?

Pitchka said :

Just turn on your wipers when he walks over insisting to wash your windscreen, he soon walks away…

I remember an old Jimeoin joke where he asked someone if they’d like their windscreen washed. They said ‘yes’ so he lent in and pressed the window washer buttton on the wiper stalk. Hahahaha! 🙂

One thing that pisses me off is the fact that in oz we have centrelink but we still have beggars. The thing that makes me angry is seeing a perfectly healthy young man begging.

Those window washes have a thing about washing atleast one window per set of lights even if you say no. They dont expect to be paid if you say no however if they do a good job for free the next time you pull up you may actually say yes.

Recently, some bloke in Civic was hassling people for money, with a story about needing $38 for a bed in the Dickson backpackers and some food. He only wanted $ as charities couldn’t help him for some reason (which he never explained).

Are there any shelters/temporary accomodation about?

poetix said :

clj said :

For anyone who’d rather give a referral than actual money, there is always a free dinner on in the Griffin Centre, except Fridays when it’s in Garema Place. Weekdays, St Johns Care provides free food parcels and in particular circumstances (for a medical appointment etc) can do bus passes as well at the church next to the CIT on Constitution Avenue (open 9.30-2). Weekday mornings the Early Morning Centre at City Uniting on Northbourne provides breakfast and showers and things.

ACT Free Meal Guide (needs updating): http://www.citizensadvice.org.au/content/view/35/32/
n.b. the Youth in the City program no longer operates unfortunately since the youth services changes; not sure what else is not current info.

The Uniting Church service you mention on Northbourne also can provide people with a post office box address, desk space and computer access, if they need it:

http://www.canberracityuca.org.au/html/early_morning_centre.html

All a different question from how an individual responds to being asked for money, though.

Of course… to be honest I usually say sorry and keep walking, unless I know them. Richiedt’s comment just got me thinking.

Tetranitrate said :

PantsMan said :

Tetranitrate said :

The traffic light windscreen washer junkies on Northborne have gotten much more aggressive lately too, and won’t take no for an answer. If I shake my head that should be it, but they just start at it anyway.
I don’t understand why the government allows this rubbish to continue – it’s not providing a service, it’s just another form of begging with a pinch of intimidation. It also makes the city look like a ghetto.

There appears no law against begging in the ACT.

And the ACT has a specific exemption to the Australian Road Rules to allow you to conduct a business on a road just to facilitate the windscreen washers on Northbourne: http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/act/consol_reg/rtatmr2000503/s22a.html

More bright ideas from the ACT Government.

Yeah I didn’t think that begging was illegal or anything – but was making the point that it really isn’t a business transaction in the normal sense, it’s just another flavor of begging. Very surprised at that law being there specifically to enable this rubbish.

There’s one windscreen guy in particular in Dickson that is just not *that* skillful at getting out of the way. A number of times he has been oblivious to the lights changing and has had to walk across as many as 2 lanes of traffic (i.e. when cleaning a car in the leftmost lane). It’s not always easy to see him in advance especially in a low car parked behind a SUV or commercial vehicle. Probably had around 3-5 near misses involving hard application of the brakes. Doesn’t help that when the traffic banks up at that intersection people are keen to move through or miss the lights. Couple of times people have had to get right on the brakes, hold up traffic, while he makes it back to the island, to the (justifiable) irritation of people behind.

Would be interesting to know if these squeegee-jockeys ever get “cleaned up” themselves by a car or bus.

Junkie Beggar: “Spare some change?”
Peter Griffin: “Sure.”
Junkie Beggar: “You didn’t put anything in there.”
Peter Griffin: “Yes I did – I put hope in there. Hope. Don’t spend it all in one place raggy.”

clj said :

For anyone who’d rather give a referral than actual money, there is always a free dinner on in the Griffin Centre, except Fridays when it’s in Garema Place. Weekdays, St Johns Care provides free food parcels and in particular circumstances (for a medical appointment etc) can do bus passes as well at the church next to the CIT on Constitution Avenue (open 9.30-2). Weekday mornings the Early Morning Centre at City Uniting on Northbourne provides breakfast and showers and things.

ACT Free Meal Guide (needs updating): http://www.citizensadvice.org.au/content/view/35/32/
n.b. the Youth in the City program no longer operates unfortunately since the youth services changes; not sure what else is not current info.

The Uniting Church service you mention on Northbourne also can provide people with a post office box address, desk space and computer access, if they need it:

http://www.canberracityuca.org.au/html/early_morning_centre.html

All a different question from how an individual responds to being asked for money, though.

For anyone who’d rather give a referral than actual money, there is always a free dinner on in the Griffin Centre, except Fridays when it’s in Garema Place. Weekdays, St Johns Care provides free food parcels and in particular circumstances (for a medical appointment etc) can do bus passes as well at the church next to the CIT on Constitution Avenue (open 9.30-2). Weekday mornings the Early Morning Centre at City Uniting on Northbourne provides breakfast and showers and things.

ACT Free Meal Guide (needs updating): http://www.citizensadvice.org.au/content/view/35/32/
n.b. the Youth in the City program no longer operates unfortunately since the youth services changes; not sure what else is not current info.

schmeah said :

Tetranitrate said :

The traffic light windscreen washer junkies on Northborne have gotten much more aggressive lately too, and won’t take no for an answer. If I shake my head that should be it, but they just start at it anyway.
I don’t understand why the government allows this rubbish to continue – it’s not providing a service, it’s just another form of begging with a pinch of intimidation. It also makes the city look like a ghetto.

I find that the windscreen scrubs also deliberatly target lone women in cars. I only say this because I can’t count the number of times I’ve been a sole occupant where the scrubber has come up and continued washing my car when I’ve energetically tried to wave him away .. I’ve also happened to notice them walk past cars with male occupants.

On another note, some years ago I was travelling overseas and saw a begger on the street with a sign that translated read “Not going to lie. Need money for beer”

Mrs Neanderthalsis complained some time ago that she was being targeted despite giving clear indications that she did not require their services. Having not had it happen to me I was a tad sceptical about their persistence until one of them did it while I was in the car too. As he started to lean over the windscreen, I reached over and flicked the windscreen washer on. I copped a gobful but drove off happy when the lights changed.

Possibly the location of this –

http://www.health.act.gov.au/c/health?a=sp&pid=1316133581&site=51490&servicecategory=13

They would have been on skeleton staffing over Xmas/New Year. Now they’re back, their clients are back . . .

Just turn on your wipers when he walks over insisting to wash your windscreen, he soon walks away…

Tetranitrate said :

Well, I’m male and they still hassle me – though the car I drive is fairly small. I’d just have to wonder if maybe the go for the Excel, Yaris, Barina, Micra, ect sort of models first and foremost – you’d be way more close and personal in that case than with a 4wd, or even a commodore.

Might be something in that. I used to drive a little Jazz, and even with the wave-off, they would sometimes do it. Since getting the big Commodore a couple of years ago, not once have they tried.

JazzyJess said :

DrKoresh said :

I don’t mind giving a couple of bucks to someone who’s down-and-out. I don’t care if they want to spend it on booze, food or accommodation. I don’t give money to the ones who try and intimidate you into giving up shrapnel, but as long as they’re polite, or at lease, not aggressive i’m more than happy to hand over any shrapnel in my pocket.

Agreed. Once I’ve handed over my change it’s no longer up to me what it’s used for.

I must admit I’m less likely to give money to someone who tells the bus lie than someone who just asks for money. People have every right to ask, but they don’t have the right to try and intimidate people into giving. I never give to chuggers though.

There is one windscreen guy who does not try to bully me into paying, and because of that I sometimes get him to do my car. The aggressive ones don’t get anything. I had one who started even though I shook my head and I rolled down the window (probably fairly stupid) and told him off. He said ‘I’m not going to fight you to clean up your shit’ which was exactly what he was doing.

I am always approached by someone in Civic. Always.

One of the more depressing things I have seen is the morning line up at Superbarn to buy the cask (or ‘piss’ in their words) for the day.

Im equally annoyed that most ATOD services have a tendency to be referral or more on the person affected contacting them. It’s a classic case where there needs to be more outreach services for these guys to help transition them off getting wasted on cheap booze all day.

carnardly said :

I’ve got hit by the “can i have some money to buy some food” many a time. Often I reach into my bag and pull out an apple to give them that. 9 times out of 10 I get a “eff off Boitch” response.

I guess they’re not really THAT hungry then….

Maybe they were merely dedicated carnivores, and were as offender by the offer of an apple as vegetarian beggers (beggertarians) would be at the offer of a Big Mac.

schmeah said :

Tetranitrate said :

The traffic light windscreen washer junkies on Northborne have gotten much more aggressive lately too, and won’t take no for an answer. If I shake my head that should be it, but they just start at it anyway.
I don’t understand why the government allows this rubbish to continue – it’s not providing a service, it’s just another form of begging with a pinch of intimidation. It also makes the city look like a ghetto.

I find that the windscreen scrubs also deliberatly target lone women in cars. I only say this because I can’t count the number of times I’ve been a sole occupant where the scrubber has come up and continued washing my car when I’ve energetically tried to wave him away .. I’ve also happened to notice them walk past cars with male occupants.

Well, I’m male and they still hassle me – though the car I drive is fairly small. I’d just have to wonder if maybe the go for the Excel, Yaris, Barina, Micra, ect sort of models first and foremost – you’d be way more close and personal in that case than with a 4wd, or even a commodore.

schmeah said :

I find that the windscreen scrubs also deliberatly target lone women in cars. I only say this because I can’t count the number of times I’ve been a sole occupant where the scrubber has come up and continued washing my car when I’ve energetically tried to wave him away .. I’ve also happened to notice them walk past cars with male occupants.

According to the missus, that’s pretty much exactly what they do. Apparently they’ll always wash her windscreen when she’s alone (even though she always trys to wave them away) compared to when I’m in the car with her. She doesn’t pay them of they come up and scrub her windshield after she’s already said no, which I think is fair enough.

PantsMan said :

Tetranitrate said :

The traffic light windscreen washer junkies on Northborne have gotten much more aggressive lately too, and won’t take no for an answer. If I shake my head that should be it, but they just start at it anyway.
I don’t understand why the government allows this rubbish to continue – it’s not providing a service, it’s just another form of begging with a pinch of intimidation. It also makes the city look like a ghetto.

There appears no law against begging in the ACT.

And the ACT has a specific exemption to the Australian Road Rules to allow you to conduct a business on a road just to facilitate the windscreen washers on Northbourne: http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/act/consol_reg/rtatmr2000503/s22a.html

More bright ideas from the ACT Government.

Yeah I didn’t think that begging was illegal or anything – but was making the point that it really isn’t a business transaction in the normal sense, it’s just another flavor of begging. Very surprised at that law being there specifically to enable this rubbish.

I’ve got hit by the “can i have some money to buy some food” many a time. Often I reach into my bag and pull out an apple to give them that. 9 times out of 10 I get a “eff off Boitch” response.

I guess they’re not really THAT hungry then….

Tetranitrate said :

The traffic light windscreen washer junkies on Northborne have gotten much more aggressive lately too, and won’t take no for an answer. If I shake my head that should be it, but they just start at it anyway.
I don’t understand why the government allows this rubbish to continue – it’s not providing a service, it’s just another form of begging with a pinch of intimidation. It also makes the city look like a ghetto.

I find that the windscreen scrubs also deliberatly target lone women in cars. I only say this because I can’t count the number of times I’ve been a sole occupant where the scrubber has come up and continued washing my car when I’ve energetically tried to wave him away .. I’ve also happened to notice them walk past cars with male occupants.

On another note, some years ago I was travelling overseas and saw a begger on the street with a sign that translated read “Not going to lie. Need money for beer”

DrKoresh said :

I don’t mind giving a couple of bucks to someone who’s down-and-out. I don’t care if they want to spend it on booze, food or accommodation. I don’t give money to the ones who try and intimidate you into giving up shrapnel, but as long as they’re polite, or at lease, not aggressive i’m more than happy to hand over any shrapnel in my pocket.

Agreed. Once I’ve handed over my change it’s no longer up to me what it’s used for.

Tetranitrate said :

The traffic light windscreen washer junkies on Northborne have gotten much more aggressive lately too, and won’t take no for an answer. If I shake my head that should be it, but they just start at it anyway.
I don’t understand why the government allows this rubbish to continue – it’s not providing a service, it’s just another form of begging with a pinch of intimidation. It also makes the city look like a ghetto.

There appears no law against begging in the ACT.

And the ACT has a specific exemption to the Australian Road Rules to allow you to conduct a business on a road just to facilitate the windscreen washers on Northbourne: http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/act/consol_reg/rtatmr2000503/s22a.html

More bright ideas from the ACT Government.

I don’t mind giving a couple of bucks to someone who’s down-and-out. I don’t care if they want to spend it on booze, food or accommodation. I don’t give money to the ones who try and intimidate you into giving up shrapnel, but as long as they’re polite, or at lease, not aggressive i’m more than happy to hand over any shrapnel in my pocket.

There’s was a particular junkie whose story was that his girlfriend was in a car accident and he needs $20 to get to the hospital to see her. He was using that for like 5 years, and also used to wander onto ANU. I haven’t seen him around that much lately, though I’m not in the city that much either now.

The pre-Christmas chuggers in Civic were much worse than any beggars I’ve noticed lately…

The traffic light windscreen washer junkies on Northborne have gotten much more aggressive lately too, and won’t take no for an answer. If I shake my head that should be it, but they just start at it anyway.
I don’t understand why the government allows this rubbish to continue – it’s not providing a service, it’s just another form of begging with a pinch of intimidation. It also makes the city look like a ghetto.

If you’re regularly approached by beggars, why not have a spare bus ticket handy (probably not in your wallet though)if they say they need bus fare which is quite common. You might also be able to or grab a food voucher from a local takeaway – or drop into somewhere nearby and buy them some lunch / dinner etc.

I’ve also had the same experience where I’ve given “beggars” money and then seen them down the pub / bottle-o not long after. Accordingly, I don’t give out cash anymore but will happily duck into a nearby take away and grab them a feed. If they were after cash for some grog they’ll soon either admit that or find some excuse not to take up your offer.

It might also be useful to have the number for Mission Australia or a similar group handy – you might find they can actually come and help them out. That could make a huge difference in their life by one simple, charitable act.

Just remember, if they’re genuine, these people could be one meal away from becoming really sick and you could, by one simple and inexpensive act be there saviour!

Just make sure you don’t place yourself if any danger while you’re helping out.

Sheltered life I lead … wouldn’t know an empty methadone container if I tripped over one. Unless there’s some sort of clue, like “methadone” in large red letters.

Does anyone actually give these people money? As. Jb said. His beggar was spotted in the botlo later on

It’s all those poorly finished roadworks that’s sending the weak to drugs

My theory is that the heat is making everyone more belligerant and reducing the amount of space they occupy…