20 July 2009

Coffee or death? I can't decide . . .

| ofm
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I’m not usually one to tattle-tale, especially for such things as trivial as bad service, but recently I found myself in a situation I felt so extreme that I feel it is in the public interest to warn about the shocking treatment I experienced at a local cafe, CAFE LOUI, in the Infrastructure building in the city interchange.

Two weeks ago, while escaping the cold of a half hour bus wait in the Canberra wind, my girlfriend and I ventured into Cafe Loui to grab a flat white and a chai latte (both some of the best I’ve experienced in Canberra) and had a fantastic time. On the way out I stopped to compliment the lady behind the counter and ended up happily chatting away for ten minutes or so and leaving with a big smile on my face and a new mission to source my next caffeine hit from my new favourite coffee house. No problem there.

Fast forward a week to last Tuesday afternoon on the 14th of July, as I found myself alone at the same bus stop with an equally chilly wait, having just powered down my food court lunch and sprinted to the interchange only to see my bus turn the corner and drive away. Having a book to read and a very full stomach, I remembered the friendliness of the Cafe Loui staff/owners and ventured into the closest cafe once again to see if they might let me sit inside for a while and read, without ordering a coffee. Luckily, the cafe (which is located in the foyer of a government department building) was all but deserted, with at least 20 tables completely empty and less than ten people in the whole foyer, so I sat down and was instantly approached by a waitress to take my order. I politely asked if it was OK that I sat and didn’t order, as it was very cold outside and there is plenty of room. I was surprised when instead of an answer, she gave me a worried look and told me to wait while she got the manager of the cafe. Expecting a polite refusal, I sat and waited.

The manager of the cafe (who I can only assume is Loui) approached my table with a friendly smile and inquired as to what I will be ordering today. I repeated my request, explaining my reasons and asking if it was OK, fully prepared to leave and find somewhere further from the stop to sit and wait. Instead of a polite refusal (as would be expected from the manager of a public cafe located in a government building), what I recieved was a smug smile and a very unfriendly stream of insults, sarcastic comments and harassment, being asked “I don’t come into your house, put my feet up on your couch, flick through your magazines and act like I own the place, do I?” and instead of being asked to leave, was asked “Who the hell do you think you are?”.

Shocked and offended, I reacted in a not-so-favourable way and stood up, grabbed my bag and, as calmly as I could, told him that all he needed to do was say no and that he “didn’t need to be a prick about it”. I admit I shouldn’t have insulted the man, but what came next I was definitely not prepared for. He leaned in and with the same smile on his face, quietly and calmly told me (among a stream of f-words and other insults) that he was going to:

“get a f*cking rifle, find out where you f*cking live and shoot you with a f*cking rifle.”

Completely shocked, horrified and now a bit scared, I immediately went to the nearest table where a middle-aged woman and a late-teenage male were sitting and asked them in complete shock whether they heard the threat that was just made on my life over a cup of coffee. I was then even more shocked to realise that the woman was the same one I had chatted to happily the week previous, and I can only assume the young man was related or an employee, as the male jumped out of his seat, stepped towards me and told me:

“That’s my guard (?) c*nt. I’ll f*ck you up.”

I took a step back and headed for the door before he could follow up on this second threat to my well being, and was guided out the door by the woman and told I’m not welcome there any more, go somewhere else next time. I sat in a state of shock at the bus stop for the remaining twenty minutes and, as I eventually got onto the bus, turned to see that Loui was standing at the window of the cafe, phone to his ear, smile on his face and, just to top it all off, he blew me a kiss.

I got home and immediately called and reported the incident to the police, the newspaper and the department of the government building that the cafe resides in. Since then I have been told by the police that because the only two witnesses were also involved in the incident that there’s nothing that can be done, that the newspaper would follow it up and that the department doesn’t directly hire the cafe employees, so there isn’t anything that they can do either.

So, armed only with the truth I put it into the public forum, has anyone else experienced anything as completely insane as this? Surely a prominent cafe owner in a busy government building doesn’t just decide to threaten someone with death out of nowhere, there must be others with similar stories and I invite those people to leave comments. And even if there isn’t, surely there has to be something that can be done, witnesses or not, about a cafe that operates under the policy that threats are OK, as long as no-one’s around to back the victim up when they report it to police.

I admit I shouldn’t have insulted the man, but up until then I had been nothing but polite, and he did insult me first only he was careful not to use swear words in his attack. Which is a lot easier to do when you haven’t just been ambushed by someone who seems outwardly friendly but quite clearly isn’t.

Should I be shot with a rifle or attacked by youths in the near future, you know who to ask.

OFM

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colourful sydney racing identity12:34 pm 28 Oct 09

this all strikes me as a great plot for a Tarantino flick. I nominate Samuel Jackson to play Louis and perhaps Tim Roth to play the OP.

Thoughts?

I have no doubt that OFM has re-told this story exactly as it happened and its absolutely not on for the Manager at Louis to continue his poor treatment of customers. I had a run in with the Manager earlier this year when I accidently dropped and broke a glass bottle of coke in the cafe area. When I asked the Manager for a mop or sponge (quite prepared to clean up the mess myself) and the Manager gave me one serviette to clean up a 360ml of coke on the floor. Eventually the Manager came over with a mop as I was using my own tissues to try and clean up the mess and the Manager went ballistic. “Dont F*#King come into my cafe and be so careless, you f*#king c*nt…etc…etc.” The Manager only changed his tune when he realised I worked at the same building (Infrastructure building) and when I left I told him that I would never buy a single thing from his cafe and would tell everybody who works at Infrastructure about my encounter with him and ten months later, I have still never bought a single thing from Louis cafe. I think the Manager has a short spark and just completley loses control, but its important to stand up for yourself to him, because once I did he changed his tune and settled down. Terrible cafe and the Manager is worse, AVOID AT ALL COSTS.

j from the block9:38 am 27 Jul 09

Pelican Lini said :
Yeah,
And j from the block still hasn’t said where his pub is located (or it’s name), so discerning muppets could avoid going there and forgo the pleasures of being insulted and/or hit while paying for the privilege
Hi Pelican Lini, I work at the Phoenix in the bus interchange. On occasion when punters have hit staff, abused women, or been generally bigoted and rude, I have removed them. If you have the urge to come in, please feel free to do so, but if you conduct yourself in a way as suggested above, I would; first politely suggest that you leave, three times, if you continued to refuse, I would probably use sarcasm, or suggestion in an effort to convince you that it was not really a good idea, see comments like “we’ve all had a good night but it’s time to go (if said punter has spent their night groping people, suggesting that are ‘insert aggressive quote here’, etc, I would consider this a sarcastic comment), alternately, if you were to attack me physically in a way I felt was threatening to my well being, I would remove you from the premises in self defence.
The term the customer is always right is only correct to a point for many business owners. If you go into their place of work and are what people may consider to be a bit of a waste (abusive to other customers, staff, destructive of property) many would not consider this customer “right”. Sure they are paying their wages, but do you want to work somewhere known for the bigoted wankers / hate mongers that hang out there?
Not suggesting that OPM is such folk, but the customer is not always right, there are lines.

Pelican Lini12:58 am 24 Jul 09

Yeah,
And j from the block still hasn’t said where his pub is located (or it’s name), so discerning muppets could avoid going there and forgo the pleasures of being insulted and/or hit while paying for the privilege

Hells_Bells7411:42 pm 23 Jul 09

kudos for #153 (wow you make a great gangster granny) and #165

Awesome x3 Granny

Astro, whether it’s the proprietor or the manager makes little difference to my opinion of any establishment that would tolerate such behaviour toward any human being, be it customer or fellow staff or man on the street.

However, three commenters have confirmed that they have witnessed or received similar treatment from the owner.

1. Peterh has stated that the owner gave him bad language a while ago and he has not been back since.
2. I-filed has ‘witnessed Loui take offence and get very verbally abusive at what he perceived as “attitude” from a fellow customer,’ and has not been back since.
3. Checklist has stated that “psychotic ranting tirades are not uncommon from this particular ‘establishment’.”

We then have the contribution from Loui’s mate, j from the block, the former flower shoppe owner, who it seems has not only said things to people that were less than polite, but has on occasion done more than that.

For him, his disapointment in Loui actually lay in the insult. It seems that rifles and shooting are all a bit much for Loui’s mate ‘j’. ‘Having dealt with a lot of muppets over the years,’ his personal favourite retort is, ‘Do you like hospital food?’ and it seems that most people ‘get the gist fairly quickly’.

It seems ‘j’ is also ‘a big fan of sarcasm when removing punters’.

4. Even ‘j’ states that Loui is ‘sometimes offensive’ and he has ‘known him to be incredibly rude’.

But, hey, it’s obviously ofm that has the problems. Perhaps he hallucinated the whole thing.

ooh, that last para wasn’t meant at you, granny; just a general observation from jw’s post at #159…

granny, you’re old fashioned.

; )

as jamie cogently points out, no-one, the op especially, has not made any substantiated claim that the threator (if ‘threatee’ is a word…) was, in fact, the eponymous proprietor of the cafe…

Granny said :

I just hate injustice. I hate things that seem wrong. I know you do, too.

100% with you on that.

Jamie Wheeler said :

Granny’s lost it a bit I think.

Oh, really?

I try to console myself with the fact that most people I meet don’t feel the need to call the police, media, and a government department after meeting me. I take pride in the fact that they usually don’t need trauma counselling afterwards.

Call me old fashioned.

Threatee! Hehe! That’s hilarious!!

Jamie Wheeler10:20 pm 23 Jul 09

Granny’s lost it a bit I think. Get a grip people. This doesn’t sound like the Loui I know and is not a dangerous lunatic. I don’t think he’d know one end of a rifle from another. His name has been dragged through the mud, even though there’s no evidence to prove this story. The original poster even said they didn’t know if it was Loui. Yet Loui’s name continues to been dragged through the mud.

JW

I guess you’re right, Tooks.

But people certainly don’t need to know your name to follow you off the premises and bash you. Think David Hookes.

And it’s presumably not that hard to stalk someone of interest, since it happens often enough – locate where they live, where they go, whom they love.

The more unhinged a person is the more likely it is that a person will act unpredictably.

The behaviour described is not normal behaviour. It’s not even normal anger. All the smiling stuff is just wrong.

It is certainly up to ofm whether he makes a complaint. I just hate injustice. I hate things that seem wrong. I know you do, too. I’ve had my say now.

Pelican Lini10:07 pm 23 Jul 09

Gawd Granny I thought you’d gone Godzilla for a second

By the way, only ofm is able to answer whether or not she feared the threat would be carried out. I don’t doubt she was shocked, scared etc (understandably too), but I’m talking about proofs of the offence that you brought up in post 63 (Threat to Kill).

Granny, you’re not comparing apples with apples in your example. Here’s why:

1) The person making the threat knows the identity of the person.
2) Presumably the cab driver (an *independent* witness) hears the exchange and can provide a statement to police, corroborating the threatee’s (yes, that’s a word now) version.

Let me clarify a couple of things: I don’t condone that kind of behaviour and I’m not defending this Loui character. I am looking at this from a legal point of view. Did the OP *really* believe Loui would go and get a rifle, somehow track her(?)down, then carry out the threat? That’s a lot to prove (especially in Canberra). With no independent witnesses, nearly impossible to prove.

Having said all that, if ofm is not satisfied with police response, then the process for making a complaint is a simple one.

Granny – What the?

Granny is standing at a taxi rank. She has been waiting for a while and is immensely pleased to see a taxi pull into a rank. Just then the Chief Minister runs up breathlessly and tells her he knows she is next in line, but his car has broken down unexpectedly and no-one has brought their car into work since they have all been utilising the ACTION bus service, as one would expect.

He is very much afraid he will be late for an important official function involving visiting foreign dignitaries.

He asks, under the circumstances, would she mind if he cuts in ahead of her?

Granny can either say ‘yes’ or ‘no’. She is well within her rights to say either.

Instead she leans towards him with a friendly smile, and asks if he can repeat the request, which he does – fully explaining the situation and being prepared to accept whatever answer is given.

Granny then gives him a smug smile, and proceeds to hurl as many insults as she can think of and unload any grudge she has ever had with a queue jumper, making sarcastic comments such as, “I don’t go into your building and piss in your foyer, steal your car space, run over your foot and act like I own the place, do I? Who the hell do you think you are?”

The Chief Minister is, at this point, somewhat taken aback, and caught off-guard and says, “You could have just said, ‘No’. You don’t have to be such a bitch about it!”

Granny, still smiling, leans in towards him and quietly and calmly tells him (among a stream of f-words and other insults) that she is going to get a f*cking rifle, find out where he f*cking lives and shoot him with a f*cking rifle.

As the taxi pulls out she looks up from the call she is making on her mobile, smiles, and blows him a kiss.

When he calls the police, somewhat shaken, on arrival at his destination, they are of course completely disinterested.

Pelican Lini8:16 pm 23 Jul 09

Cripes BB,
You know what?
After these postings and others on RA, I now think I’ve led a really sheltered life, and I am glad of it.
(Webbed feet crossed to avoid jinx.)
I’ve got a loony uncle, too, but thank God he’s never laid hands on a gun while I’m around.

Pelican Lini said :

Tooks said :

Granny said :

I agree that it is not ok and not acceptable, but if I had a dollar for every time someone had threatened me with violence or death, I’d be a regular in BRW.

Tooks,
Are you an ambo, policeman, parking inspector or professional wrestler?
Would you mind sharing why you have been threatened so often?
I’ve only ever had one death threat, and while it seemed unlikely, it was certainly said with passion and I definitely felt uncomfortable for a few weeks.
Threats of violence were easier to shrug off, although the less than a handful of times I’ve been assaulted came with no warning whatsoever.

PL – I find verbal threats not very threatening at all. The only times I’ve been really scared where when I’ve had knives pulled on me (twice) and have been shot at once (and that’s not counting an incident where an absolute tool of an uncle in Binalong that had me stand behind a gum while he fired about 60 rounds from a .222 at it). Now that was scary

Pelican Lini4:41 pm 23 Jul 09

Sorry Granny,
Post 149 could mistakenly imply you made the BRW comment but it was a stuff up by me in editing the quote.
“Old hack baffled by new technology.”

Pelican Lini4:36 pm 23 Jul 09

Tooks said :

Granny said :

I agree that it is not ok and not acceptable, but if I had a dollar for every time someone had threatened me with violence or death, I’d be a regular in BRW.

Tooks,
Are you an ambo, policeman, parking inspector or professional wrestler?
Would you mind sharing why you have been threatened so often?
I’ve only ever had one death threat, and while it seemed unlikely, it was certainly said with passion and I definitely felt uncomfortable for a few weeks.
Threats of violence were easier to shrug off, although the less than a handful of times I’ve been assaulted came with no warning whatsoever.

Tooks said :

There is a world of difference between a genuine threat and a half-arsed empty threat. I think what Special G was getting at is did the OP genuinely fear the threat would be carried out?

He leaned in and with the same smile on his face, quietly and calmly told me (among a stream of f-words and other insults) that he was going to:

“get a f*cking rifle, find out where you f*cking live and shoot you with a f*cking rifle.”

Completely shocked, horrified and now a bit scared, I immediately went to the nearest table where a middle-aged woman and a late-teenage male were sitting and asked them in complete shock whether they heard the threat that was just made on my life over a cup of coffee. I was then even more shocked to realise that the woman was the same one I had chatted to happily the week previous, and I can only assume the young man was related or an employee, as the male jumped out of his seat, stepped towards me and told me:

“That’s my guard (?) c*nt. I’ll f*ck you up.”

I took a step back and headed for the door before he could follow up on this second threat to my well being, and was guided out the door by the woman and told I’m not welcome there any more, go somewhere else next time. I sat in a state of shock at the bus stop for the remaining twenty minutes and, as I eventually got onto the bus, turned to see that Loui was standing at the window of the cafe, phone to his ear, smile on his face and, just to top it all off, he blew me a kiss.

Did the OP genuinely fear the threat would be carried out?

Sounds $hit scared to me.

The second threat from ‘bodyguard dude’ was a particularly nice touch ….

Granny said :

Perhaps I am not a reasonable person but every time my life or the life of someone I love has been threatened I have found it terrifying.

It’s absolutely not ok. Not acceptable at all.

It’s not the freaking wild west. Tell him to keep his freaking gun to himself.

There is a world of difference between a genuine threat and a half-arsed empty threat. I think what Special G was getting at is did the OP genuinely fear the threat would be carried out? I would suggest not.

I agree that it is not ok and not acceptable, but if I had a dollar for every time someone had threatened me with violence or death, I’d be a regular in BRW.

Did the police even bother to check whether he had a rifle?

Perhaps I am not a reasonable person but every time my life or the life of someone I love has been threatened I have found it terrifying.

It’s absolutely not ok. Not acceptable at all.

It’s not the freaking wild west. Tell him to keep his freaking gun to himself.

(ii) in circumstances in which a reasonable person would fear
that the threat would be carried out;

That is what the risk assessment is for – most people would just tell this wanker to f%&k off.

Seems Loui is either really nice or a bit over the top depending on the day of the week. Maybe he has anger management issues. I still don’t think we are getting the full story.

Special G said :

Get a grip. Someone who has no idea of your name or who you says they will track you down. Time to do a risk assessment.

Risk is pretty damn low that:

1 – they can ever find out who you are.
2 – Find out where you live
3 – could be bothered ordering a hit on you.

Someone comes to your house with bad intent hit them with a wok.

Here’s an idea. How about the person with anger management issues making illegal threats gets a grip? Just sayin’ ….

You are right Jamie Wheeler. I just nominated Loui for an order of australia award. He clearly is a wonderful, if sometimes misunderstood, man about town. And if he doesn’t win I’ll ******* go and ***** the **** ****** ***

As if anybody doesn’t know.

Psychotic ranting tirades are not uncommon from this particular ‘establishment’. It’s amazing how they still trade. Why anybody would want to go there is beyond me. If they decide to, that’s their malfunction.

Plenty of places to get a great Coffee. The place broadcasts “wanker” all over the vicinity anyway.

Another case of “take your MEDS, you fu*kwitt”…

But I thought a wok was something you threw at a wabbit when you didn’t have a wifle?!

You have to wack that wabbit before putting it in the wok next time.

Pelican Lini7:12 pm 22 Jul 09

Also,
See Monty Python TV series box set for assistance in combatting assailants armed with fruit.
Not much help, however, if assailants have a point-ed stick.

Woody Mann-Caruso7:11 pm 22 Jul 09

Can’t. Wabbit took it.

Get a grip. Someone who has no idea of your name or who you says they will track you down. Time to do a risk assessment.

Risk is pretty damn low that:

1 – they can ever find out who you are.
2 – Find out where you live
3 – could be bothered ordering a hit on you.

Someone comes to your house with bad intent hit them with a wok.

Why didn’t the guy just sit on the public waiting area couches in the foyer that aren’t in the restaurant? Doesn’t make sense really.

Clown Killer said :

I won’t be patronising Loui’s again either. What an a-hole.

ditto

eyeLikeCarrots9:47 am 22 Jul 09

fabforty said :

Hmmm…. charming one day, threatening to murder people the next. Sounds like classic psychopath to me. I’ll be giving this place a wide berth. Lucky OFM didn’t ask to use the loo as well.

If she asked to use the lew all she would have gotten was “I’m going to find out where you live and crap on your carpet”

Clown Killer8:12 am 22 Jul 09

I won’t be patronising Loui’s again either. What an a-hole.

Brianh said :

See, this post shows that my last OP on the other thing was not against race. How?

I have been a customer at louis for years and have not been shot!

The new KPI for exceptional customer service in Canberra?

Brianh said :

I have been a customer at louis for years and have not been shot!

Congratulations! Maybe this can be their new advertising slogan.

Jamie Wheeler10:57 pm 21 Jul 09

Brianh said :

See, this post shows that my last OP on the other thing was not against race. How?

I have been a customer at louis for years and have not been shot!

I too drank coffee there for years and was also never shot at or abused. I’m sure the only shots Loui would be capable would be a shot of macchiato.

Loui rules. I doubt he’d threaten to kill anybody. Of course there’s no proof supplied about any of the alleged threats. Produce a video or something then maybe it could be believed.

JW
Loui Fan

Mike Bessenger10:52 pm 21 Jul 09

Art said :

fabforty said :

Hmmm…. charming one day, threatening to murder people the next. Sounds like classic psychopath to me. I’ll be giving this place a wide berth. Lucky OFM didn’t ask to use the loo as well.

I on the other-hand will be in once a day for the next week, sitting down with a newspaper in the middle of lunch time and order nothing just to see what happens. Don’t worry, will have mobile phone camera to capture what will no doubt be a memorable clip for YouTube.

At least ask for a glass of water, spill some on the table, then draw circles with your finger whilst mixing in sugar from the sachels.

See, this post shows that my last OP on the other thing was not against race. How?

I have been a customer at louis for years and have not been shot!

trevar at #118. Re-read what you wrote, then give yourself an uppercut.

fabforty said :

Hmmm…. charming one day, threatening to murder people the next. Sounds like classic psychopath to me. I’ll be giving this place a wide berth. Lucky OFM didn’t ask to use the loo as well.

I on the other-hand will be in once a day for the next week, sitting down with a newspaper in the middle of lunch time and order nothing just to see what happens. Don’t worry, will have mobile phone camera to capture what will no doubt be a memorable clip for YouTube.

Jamie Wheeler said :

Doesn’t sound like Loui to me or he really had his buttons pushed.

Sounds EXACTLY like the Loui I know. And what’s with the implied “it’s OK to threaten to kill someone if they push your buttons”??

Jamie Wheeler said :

Where is his right of reply and side of the story?

Try this link: Coffee or death? I can’t decide . . .

D’uh!

Jamie Wheeler said :

What are you saying now that Loui is a mob boss of downtown Civic and is going to have somebody whacked for sitting in his cafe and calling him a prick?

I’m saying that it’s not hard for criminal elements to find where you live, and the gentleman allegedly making the threat was stating that he had the means to do so.

D’uh!

Is Loui a Massey?

Jamie Wheeler8:57 pm 21 Jul 09

>> Jamie Wheeler, have you ever had your life threatened or the life of someone you love?
>>Do you know how easy it is for someone with the right connections to find out where you >>live? Do you?

What are you saying now that Loui is a mob boss of downtown Civic and is going to have somebody whacked for sitting in his cafe and calling him a prick? Anyway, we actually don’t even know that this was Loui. The original post said:
“The manager of the cafe (who I can only assume is Loui) approached my table”.

Was it actually Loui or another manager or staff member?

Doesn’t sound like Loui to me or he really had his buttons pushed. Where is his right of reply and side of the story? The original story has no supporting evidence and is hearsay. None of us were there, so how do we know what really happend? With Canberra being so small I’m sure this will get back to Loui, so we may yet hear from him.

Hmmm…. charming one day, threatening to murder people the next. Sounds like classic psychopath to me. I’ll be giving this place a wide berth. Lucky OFM didn’t ask to use the loo as well.

Ozi said :

Are you kidding me?! I think you may under-estimate the workload of the average cop. Police do not have the time to “have a conversation” with every person who is involved in an argument which would NEVER succeed in court. Especially with the ACT courts, there is absolutely no point in investigating this matter as no criminal offense can be proven. You can get as huffy as you like, Trevar, but I’m betting you will be on RiotACT complaining about slow Police response to an urgent job one day. And the reason for the slow response? All the cops were tied up having “conversations” with people against whom no criminal conviction could ever take place.

I hardly think the AFP can be busy: they were wasting their time piss-farting around with the Chasers on Sunday; why didn’t they use that time to deal with a real problem? Like teaching, policing is a profession that is underfunded and must apply a triage system to decide what is most important, and I happen to think that human life should be paramount, not protecting some private organisation from people who want to crack a joke on their roof.

You might be perfectly happy for potential murderers to continue thinking that death threats are okay, but I’d prefer not to, so you’re absolutely right that I will complain at every opportunity until they either prioritise human life, or are sufficiently funded to not need to.

Jamie Wheeler, have you ever had your life threatened or the life of someone you love? Do you know how easy it is for someone with the right connections to find out where you live? Do you? Do you know what it feels like to realise that somebody can come to your home, your home where your family are living at any moment of the day or night and realise that you can’t protect your family?

You might know Loui. You might know he is ok. The guy threatened to find out where a person lived and kill them.

Well, pardon us for not knowing that it was all just a little joke. Ha ha.

Pardon the OP for sitting in shock for twenty minutes while he waited for a bus.

Most of us aren’t threatened with death every day of the week. And when we do we don’t like it. Also it is supposed to be illegal to do that to people, but obviously it isn’t.

Loui had a customer who thought the sun shone out of his bottom and his business. He has snatched disaster from the jaws of victory. But just so long as he doesn’t mind.

Mike Crowther6:02 pm 21 Jul 09

Not sure of the rules in the ACT, in NSW traders can lose their license on the grounds of ‘incivility’.

Jamie Wheeler5:55 pm 21 Jul 09

What else really went on with this story to set Loui off, assuming he actually said all those things? I think if you’re actually scared of Loui and believed he really wanted to kill you then you’ve got some problems. He aint exactly an ex con fresh out of the joint with tatts all over him. He’d probably be more into art or fine wine than firearms. Just don’t go back there if you don’t like it. Sounds like you’re so cheap, Loui won’t mind not having you as a customer anymore.

Pelican Lini5:38 pm 21 Jul 09

J from the block,
You have variously posted: “I have said things to people that were less than polite, and as a bouncer and barman, I have on occaision done more than that”, “Offensive behaviour in customer service is a nono, but, and it’s a big but, it does happen”,”Having dealt with a lot of muppets over the years”, “my personal favourite retort is “do you like hospital food?” and “I am a big fan of sarcasm when removing punters”.
You have also equated being passionate with being “sometimes offensive” and “there have been times when my passion may have been laced with frustration, and on occaision out right loathing”.
You have even complained about customers “engaging in annoying conversation”.
Clearly you enjoy your work (especially it seems when you are insulting or hitting “muppets” or “punters”) but have you ever considered whether hospitality or customer service are really the right businesses for you?
Do you ever call people customers or in any way acknowledge they are the people actually paying your bills and providing your profits?
Could you please inform Riot Act where your pub is located and of any future businesses so I can avoid them like the plague?

j from the block said :

OFM, just clarifying, you sat down, inside the cafe, and because the last time you were in there, when you paid money to the business they were nice to you, made good coffee and engaged in conversation, you thought going in, not paying for anything, not engaging with them (the first time you went in I am guessing they spoke to you when you were paying, at the register, not where you sat the second time) they would treat you the same way?

You mean he made the mistake of thinking they were genuinely nice people? Well, they’ve certainly set him straight about that. Yay, them.

I do not disbelieve the OP’s story – but how can one base their judgements on one persons words….

That’s why courts were formed…to get both sides of the story.

As for me piping up whenever someone has a complaint about a hospitality experience, maybe that’s because I know the value of years of loyal custom, how hard it is to achieve that, and that bad words travel 10 fold faster than good – and how easy a reputation can be turfed by a few careless words thrown about on a world stage…

I take negative feedback on board, and then chose to experience for myself to confirm/deny this feedback..I wont say it has always been successful, but I have uncovered gems that I had previously been told were duds.

Just because one person is a prick toward you does not make the whole business that way inclined…

Business have a right of reply before being tarnished…Is that so unreasonable…

If you recall caf, I gave that right of reply several times in my firestone thread…both one on one, and then resorting to a world stage via RA.

I do not see where the problem is with what I have said previously in this thread… At least I am giving an opportunity for recourse, rather than taking the OP’s words as gospel and lynching the business in question…

Like I said – there is always 3 sides to a story…Yours, Mine and the truth….

j from the block4:35 pm 21 Jul 09

ahappychappy, I’d love to say that, but as a barman, that would rule out a lot of punters.
I would put in also, I have used the “can I come to your place of work and……” line a number of times on folk who have come in and done strange things.

ahappychappy4:30 pm 21 Jul 09

Ian said :

ant said :

customers *do* have the right to comment on the food and the service they receive.

Exactly. And while I’m at it, message to people in service industries who take out their frustrations/bad days etc on customers – I don’t give a rat’s arse if you have broken up with your boy/girl friend, you are exceedingly busy/overworked, your business is struggling …. these are your probems – do not make them into my problems!

Can I then throw out then a message to all customers coming in to buy something from my place of work, that I don’t give a rat’s arse if you’re stressed, you’re talking to your dying mother on your mobile phone, or if you’ve had a shitty day. Same logic?

You should just sit down with loui, tell him how this has hurt your feelings and remind him that it’s not nice to say you will shoot any one

j from the block4:18 pm 21 Jul 09

#107 agreed. I will have to go by and check with Loui if he had a few too many stimulants on this occaision. I have known him to be incredibly rude, and also extrememly considerate and compassionate.

Although now I am back working in the area, one of the reasons I closed my business in the interchange was the level of harassment. I do not condone Loui’s phrasing, but I do understand it. The previous falling down analogy is apt.

I am biased, I am a big fan of sarcasm when removing punters.

#105, oh absolutely, the service provider can refuse service, no problems at all with that … but there are ways to do this and ways not to. Sarcasm, belittling and threats generally fall into the latter category.

pepmeup said :

let him vent and get the %$# over it

So it’s okay to threaten to kill people if you’re just ‘venting’? That’s nice.

j from the block4:09 pm 21 Jul 09

Ian, have I cut your drinks recently? Can we agree that the door swings both ways and management has the right to refuse service at their discretion, just as the customers are free to have their opinions on food and service and air them accordingly, be it by public flogging or just by leaving?

The blokeprobably had a bad day, and snapped maybe you were the 51st person to ask that day, maybe he had just cleanned his toilets after non customers had smashed them. who knows, he should not have reacted as he did. but these peple writing that you should ring up and book tables and not show, are truly scum, he is a man trying to do business in hard times, let him vent and get the %$# over it

ant said :

customers *do* have the right to comment on the food and the service they receive.

Exactly. And while I’m at it, message to people in service industries who take out their frustrations/bad days etc on customers – I don’t give a rat’s arse if you have broken up with your boy/girl friend, you are exceedingly busy/overworked, your business is struggling …. these are your probems – do not make them into my problems!

pepmeup said :

Another business owner I know have a simular problem with tour buses dropping off people out side her place. the tour bus people come in buy nothing take up the seats and use the toilets. If you want to sit down or use the facilities buy something you cheap cheap cheap %$##@

I bet though that in this case the net result of having the buses drop people off is positive, ie it generates customers who do buy things, who wouldn’t have gone there otherwise to buy said things. However, focus on the negatives, being those who just sit there and don’t buy things.

j from the block3:56 pm 21 Jul 09

OFM, just clarifying, you sat down, inside the cafe, and because the last time you were in there, when you paid money to the business they were nice to you, made good coffee and engaged in conversation, you thought going in, not paying for anything, not engaging with them (the first time you went in I am guessing they spoke to you when you were paying, at the register, not where you sat the second time) they would treat you the same way?

j from the block3:41 pm 21 Jul 09

As a business in the bus interchange, you pay a decent whack of rent for the flow through traffic you get from all the punters getting on and off buses. Part of that is having to deal with the people who enter your business just killing time while waiting for the bus, some of whom eventually / sometimes, actually purchase something.
Having a florist I rarely had people sit down in my shop (distinct lack of chairs), but I did deal with people mangling the flowers and engaging in annoying conversation.
If I did have a go at anyone, I probably did not expect business from them, or they may have looked like one of the many who stole something on the way to the bus. As a business owner, it is something you can do, and have to wear.

Sorry all (and thanks to BerraBoy for pointing it out), I just noticed that I wrote “Expecting a polite refusal, I sat and waited”, which is wrong. What I meant was that I was expecting a polite answer, and was prepared to leave without a fuss if it was no.

Loui was well within his rights to let me know that I’m not welcome unless I bought something – it’s a business after all – but I had just eaten a big lunch and had a drink, so anything I bought would have just sat there and not been consumed. Who knows? Maybe if he had said “No, I’m sorry sir the cafe tables are for paying customers only” then I might have decided to buy something, not eat it and sit in the warm cafe. But he never said that, instead opting to take his frustration out on me, which then made me respond to his rudeness with a swear word.

I don’t have any problem with him refusing me the table. I have a problem with his first response, and then his subsequent threat on my life, and then the further threat of violence as I was leaving from a third person.

I feel sorry for this bloke,obviouly alot of people just come in and sit down. he is probably paying about $600 er meter per annum in rent plus insurance and heating and people think they can just come in and sit down. Another business owner I know have a simular problem with tour buses dropping off people out side her place. the tour bus people come in buy nothing take up the seats and use the toilets. If you want to sit down or use the facilities buy something you cheap cheap cheap %$##@

I must admit, if some shopkeeper told me they “were going to get a rifle” to shoot me, i’d like to thinki I’d be tempted to say, “off you go, I’ll wait here”, just to see what happened.

At the very least they’d have to go home to get one and by the time they got back you’d have warmed up and caught the next bus:)

caf said :

I still think you are being incredibly discourteous, as you are every time someone has the temerity to complain about bad customer service in the hospitality industry…

I’ve noticed that too.

customers *do* have the right to comment on the food and the service they receive.

Oh yes, I’m sure the other side thought you were presenting their case fairly.

I still think you are being incredibly discourteous, as you are every time someone has the temerity to complain about bad customer service in the hospitality industry… somone other than you yourself, that is!

j from the block3:01 pm 21 Jul 09

Could be a reason for another thread, but for me, my disapointment in Loui lay in the insult. Rifles, shooting, really, its all a bit much for me. Having dealt with a lot of muppets over the years, (not suggesting OFM is one), but my personal favourite retort is “do you like hospital food?” . Normally most get the gist fairly quickly.
Here endeth the lesson.

Caf – Please see comment #86.

My story at least had both sides of the situation – and photographic evidence.

All I see is one side here..

Like I said…Grain Of Salt.

Danman: No-one then accused you of exaggerating things or implied that you were lying. I think you could extend the same courtesy here.

I am delighted said :

It always amuses me when posts like this get put up, then all the pretentious tools come out quoting rules and regulations and everyone starts having a go.

I’m right, says I…
No I’m right…
Poppycock hogwash rabble rabble rabble….

Not going to comment on the actuall situation as I wasn’t there, but now I feel inclined to go there and make up my own mind.

Good, but to do so would you require to ask to se the this Loui character and then ask himif you can sit in the shop for a while without buying anyhthing – just so you can compare apples with apples. Let me know how it works out for you.

For mine if ohm was expecting to have been told ‘no’ then he/she shouldn’t have gone in there in the first place. That said, there is no excuse for the alledged behaviour of Loui, if indeed the OP is accurate. I’d be interested in his side though, just for completeness.

You said :

Also, “un-australian” is the most bullshit, bogan attempt at an insult i’ve ever come across.

Un-Australian is a perfectly cromulent insult

bloodnut said :

I just went to Loui’s for a coffee – he blew me a kiss too and it looked very much like he had a gun in his pocket.

or he was just happy to see you?

I just went to Loui’s for a coffee – he blew me a kiss too and it looked very much like he had a gun in his pocket.

great thread! I love the insane. And thumbing his nose at saccarinesweet customer service norms that are just so McDonalds, again, great!

Especially fantastic- that he seems to have instructed his staff to come get him if they find a victim for him to abuse and threaten!

I cant wait to go there. Then again I also enjoy sitting on my roof with a crossbow in case someone tries to break in.
But not a rifle – thats TOO crazy!

I reckon you need to know the staff enough to chat, or ask, if you wanna just use their space without buying a nice warm coffee.

Or you could use a dictaphone to record the abuse next time – (best inform him first tho- possibly by mail)
would be a great sound file for Riotact – sure to go viral – and, theres no such thing as bad publicity ( a cliche to go with “the customer is always right”)

caf said :

Yeah I reckon I’ll be doing without Loui too, sounds like someone’s got an anger management problem.

Danman, I don’t recall anyone saying that to you in the Firestone thread.

Hard to debunk well written emails to said proprieter and photographic evidence of poor service caf…All I see here is ones persons side…. I have not heard from Loui, and would it be unreasonable to expect that both sides will embellish the truth to suit them even if only a fraction, and that there is a 3rd and truthful side ?

I was not debunking the OP’s story, I was taking it with a grain of salt…

Or call up and order something, and then say “and then” after everything he says.

j from the block11:45 am 21 Jul 09

OK, now I do not represent Loui in any way, I have known him in a business capacity since I had a florist across the interchange from him around 8 years ago, and for the three years I was there I had coffee pretty much every day at Loui, and dinner when he still did that. He is a passionate (see sometimes offensive) man, as am I, and I freely admit (as he probably would), that while working in and around the Civic interchange for the last 8-10 years, there have been times when my passion may have been laced with frustration, and on occaision out right loathing.
As a flower shoppe owner, I have said things to people that were less than polite, and as a bouncer and barman, I have on occaision done more than that.
Offensive behaviour in customer service is a nono, but, and it’s a big but, it does happen. And punters should feel free to either 1) not go back, or 2) do what I do and place a 1 month- life ban on the place.

LOL.

There are plenty of ways to get even…

Ring them up, book some tables, get your frineds to ring them up and book more tables.

Sit down order a meal and then get up and leave.

They have no power…and are a very easy target.

Dont get mad get even.

LOL that you called the police

I am delighted11:10 am 21 Jul 09

It always amuses me when posts like this get put up, then all the pretentious tools come out quoting rules and regulations and everyone starts having a go.

I’m right, says I…
No I’m right…
Poppycock hogwash rabble rabble rabble….

Not going to comment on the actuall situation as I wasn’t there, but now I feel inclined to go there and make up my own mind.

Harvyk1 said:
“No it’s not. Posts are both moderated, and Loui is more than welcome to log on and give his account of the events. Also you can only sue for defamation if something which has been posted is inaccurate, and in that case it would be the poster of the information who would be sued, not the RiotACT itself.”
That last point is wrong. Both the person saying the defamatory statement and the publisher of the defamatory statement would be liable, and a lawyer would advise the client to sue the one with more money (in this case not necesarily the publisher, but usually it is). Also, truth is a defence, but you have to prove it to a court, and as a publisher you would have to argue that you made reasonable attempts to verify the accuracy of what is alleged. We have no idea whether what OFM says happens is accurate. I doubt Loui will sue, but he could if he wanted to. Giving Loui the “opportunity” to comment on a thread that he probably doesn’t know about doesn’t quite cut it.

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy10:06 am 21 Jul 09

NoAddedMSG said :

And next time you will know to say “I’ll wait until my date gets here before I order”, wait the requisite amount of time, get a pretend text message, fake a few angry tears like you have just been stood up, and storm out in a huff.

Brilliant.

FC said :

tooks. There is continued reference to the exchange of words between these two being of similar standard.

Not made by me though.

Ozi at #77 is spot on.

trevar said :

There may not be any physical evidence, but if the police could be bothered asking questions, they may (or may not) be able to find other evidence, in the attitude of the proprietor or some such. And even if they find none, the only thing lacking would be a conviction. A police force should be interested in dealing with crime, and making every effort to bring criminals to justice. Their refusal to even question the guy makes a very clear statement that the AFP does not care about crime unless there is sufficient evidence to convict the criminal. This should not be the case. A simple conversation with the proprietor could have established Loui as a potential criminal, which could be noted for the next time he threatens a life, or establish OFM as a nutter, which would also be an appropriate outcome for the police.

The conviction would be nice, but even if it’s unlikely, the potential murderer should be investigated. I generally have a high opinion of police, and the dealings I have had with the AFP have been mostly positive. But this is ridiculous, and I think OFM should lodge a formal complaint with the AFP.

And whether or not OFM bought a coffee is entirely irrelevant. This is not the USA, so poverty is not a crime. I don’t often carry sufficient cash on me to buy a coffee; I have no reason to, and these places often don’t allow eftpos for small transactions. And even if she had the money on her, asking to use a seat for a few minutes is hardly a reason to get all huffy. Ask her to leave! Is that so bloody hard?

Are you kidding me?! I think you may under-estimate the workload of the average cop. Police do not have the time to “have a conversation” with every person who is involved in an argument which would NEVER succeed in court. Especially with the ACT courts, there is absolutely no point in investigating this matter as no criminal offense can be proven. You can get as huffy as you like, Trevar, but I’m betting you will be on RiotACT complaining about slow Police response to an urgent job one day. And the reason for the slow response? All the cops were tied up having “conversations” with people against whom no criminal conviction could ever take place.

And next time you will know to say “I’ll wait until my date gets here before I order”, wait the requisite amount of time, get a pretend text message, fake a few angry tears like you have just been stood up, and storm out in a huff.

tooks. There is continued reference to the exchange of words between these two being of similar standard. Which it is not. A threat to kill someone IS different to just swearing at someone.
I wasn’t commenting on whether or not it would go to court or would be able to be proven etc. I didn’t miss that point. I simply wasnt addressing it.

FC said :

I think saying to someone “You don’t need to be a prick about it” and going all crazy and threatening to kill someone are not exactly in the same league as each other. its hardly ‘two people just swearing at each other’

I never said they were just swearing at each other. Read it again.

Anyway, you’re missing the point, which was that it would be difficult to prove any offence from what was a minor (definitely nasty) incident. You would not get up on a Threat to Kill charge in court.

jackal said :

One day this website is going to be sued for defamation with one-sided posts like this.”quote]

One day?!

I think saying to someone “You don’t need to be a prick about it” and going all crazy and threatening to kill someone are not exactly in the same league as each other. its hardly ‘two people just swearing at each other’

Wow a lot of people on here don’t seem to be reading the original post. The poster asked if it was okay to wait without purchasing a drink, and said that they fully accepted that if the cafe owner had said ‘no’ to their request that would ahve been fine. It doesn’t call for being abused or treated like crap.
Sounds like this cafe owner has got some serious issues. I know where I will be avoiding in future.

So trevar, you want police to investigate every instance of two people exchanging nasty words with each other? The only offence here is maybe offensive behaviour, and given they both swore at each other, they are probably both guilty of it. Send them both to court?

Jamie Wheeler8:54 am 21 Jul 09

I used to work in civic and would have coffee at Loui’s all the time. He wasn’t a bad guy and I’d chat to him quite often. I do remember people just walzing in off the street was a real problem even back then. Some groups of people would even sit down for a meeting and then not want to order anything. He used to get annoyed with all the rent he’d have to pay, then inconsiderate people just showing up and using his place for free. I can imagine him as an Italian being argumentative but not using such strong language. If he did, you must have REALLY pissed him off or caught him after a bad day. I wouldn’t mind hearing his side of the story.

JW

Trevar – obviously you’ve never had to ask the coppers in this town for anything. Unless your speeding or drink driving they don’t want to know you. I once went in to report an assult, and I had evidence (a nice big black eye) and the coppers couldn’t have cared less.

jackal said :

One day this website is going to be sued for defamation with one-sided posts like this.

No it’s not. Posts are both moderated, and Loui is more than welcome to log on and give his account of the events.

Also you can only sue for defamation if something which has been posted is inaccurate, and in that case it would be the poster of the information who would be sued, not the RiotACT itself.

bd84 said :

Well there’s a difference there, it’s a little thing called “evidence” in the three instances you list there is normally some sort of evidence of a crime occurring. In a verbal slanging match with no witnesses there is no evidence.

There may not be any physical evidence, but if the police could be bothered asking questions, they may (or may not) be able to find other evidence, in the attitude of the proprietor or some such. And even if they find none, the only thing lacking would be a conviction. A police force should be interested in dealing with crime, and making every effort to bring criminals to justice. Their refusal to even question the guy makes a very clear statement that the AFP does not care about crime unless there is sufficient evidence to convict the criminal. This should not be the case. A simple conversation with the proprietor could have established Loui as a potential criminal, which could be noted for the next time he threatens a life, or establish OFM as a nutter, which would also be an appropriate outcome for the police.

The conviction would be nice, but even if it’s unlikely, the potential murderer should be investigated. I generally have a high opinion of police, and the dealings I have had with the AFP have been mostly positive. But this is ridiculous, and I think OFM should lodge a formal complaint with the AFP.

And whether or not OFM bought a coffee is entirely irrelevant. This is not the USA, so poverty is not a crime. I don’t often carry sufficient cash on me to buy a coffee; I have no reason to, and these places often don’t allow eftpos for small transactions. And even if she had the money on her, asking to use a seat for a few minutes is hardly a reason to get all huffy. Ask her to leave! Is that so bloody hard?

Perhaps he should have been brandishing a cricket bat, then he would have been a bit more Australian

Regardless of whether you should have bought something or not, Loui sounds like a complete asshole. He could have easily, politely asked you to leave and saved himself a future customer and some public shaming.

Also, “un-australian” is the most bullshit, bogan attempt at an insult i’ve ever come across.

barking toad7:14 am 21 Jul 09

Onya Loui!

Pretentious gits need some slapping!

30 Threat to kill

If—

(a) a person makes a threat to another person to kill that other
person or any third person—

(i) intending that other person to fear that the threat would be
carried out; or

(ii) being reckless whether or not that other person would fear
that the threat would be carried out; and

(b) the threat is made—

(i) without lawful excuse; and

(ii) in circumstances in which a reasonable person would fear
that the threat would be carried out;

the firstmentioned person is guilty of an offence punishable, on
conviction, by imprisonment for 10 years.

Part 2: Offences against the person; Section 30, page 15, Crimes Act 1900

Most people who are lying will eventually throw up inconsistencies in their stories with enough digging.

Whilst the OP may or may not be giving a truthful account, I find it difficult to believe that anyone would be foolish enough to risk the consequences of publishing such an account otherwise.

A situation involving one person’s word against another is certainly not a valid reason for not pursuing a matter.

If the OP wasn’t afraid they wouldn’t have called the police.

There is not always evidence that a rape has occurred, only that sexual intercourse took place.
There’s not always evidence that somebody was sexually harassed.
It doesn’t mean a serious complaint shouldn’t be taken seriously.

I can totally understand a person being afraid if such bizarre behaviour resulted from a simple request, which any person behaving rationally would simply have approved or denied.

I don’t care if the manager was stressed. Attend anger management. Get help. You’re no more entitled to break the law than the rest of us.

Wow.

I can’

I-filed said :

I’ve witnessed Loui take offence and get very verbally abusive at what he perceived as “attitude” from a fellow customer. He has a full-on inferiority complex. I’ve never been back since and that was seven years ago …

Maybe it’s because his parents left the ‘s’ off his name because they diddn’t realise “louis” is actually a French name and should not be pronounced “Loo-es” unlike the English equivalent Lewis.

I’m actually now 100% sure that’s the source of Loui’s inferiority complex. QED.

Die Lefty Scum11:27 pm 20 Jul 09

Sadly Loui doesn’t strike me as the internet forum-type, even if he were literate.

eyeLikeCarrots said :

You could have asked to take a seat, which I am going to guess would have gotten you a ‘No, unless you buy yourself a nice warm coffee or hot chocolate’.

I’ll admit to that, I could have asked if I could sit before I sat down. But I didn’t realise that sitting down before asking was going to be such a big deal that my life would be threatened over it. All I did was go into a cafe and expect to be treated as a decent human being. I didn’t think that my sitting before asking would mean that I wasn’t entitled to the same courtesy than if I asked before sitting. Like I explained, the place was empty. I didn’t see how sitting was taking up any resources, costing him any money or taking any business away from him. I acted like a decent human being and was threatened TWICE for my actions.

I’m not lying, I’m not making things up, I’m not embellishing. I went in to a cafe, I acted in a courteous manner and I was attacked. I said nothing more than “you don’t have to be a prick about it”, which I regret and recognise was the wrong thing to do. I was put on the defensive and was so shocked that I acted in a way that I shouldn’t have. But that doesn’t mean a manager of a business can get away with treating ANY customer like that.

I’m not playing it down for my own sake. You don’t have to believe me but that’s how it happened and I’m not going to say otherwise. It’s the truth. If I was a dick about it and was making it up, why would I go to all the effort to whinge to the police, the newspaper, the office building and the internet? I’m doing it because I was treated with absolute disrespect and had my life threatened and I feel outraged about it. I’m not defaming anyone because it’s the truth and I stand by it.

I would love to hear Loui’s take on this argument. I have honestly reported it as it happened so I look forward to seeing how he explains it from his side.

arescarti42 said :

Anna Key said :

arescarti42 said :

How embarrassing, I don’t think I can bare to post again. The shame!

No don’t stop. The piss taking on here is part of the grand RA experience

Thanks AK, it certainly makes RA much more interesting. I’ll overlook the missing full stop and comma from your last post.

Exactly! Sorry, it’s a work thing. We have cut down on punctuation to save printing costs in order to achieve DoFD’s efficiency dividend

I think the flaming bag of dog poo left on the table for Loui is the trick.

Sounds like all involved in the little soap opera needs a lesson in manners, both sides.

Louie Louie, oh no and then away I go

http://tinyurl.com/6bnrch

Anna Key said :

arescarti42 said :

How embarrassing, I don’t think I can bare to post again. The shame!

No don’t stop. The piss taking on here is part of the grand RA experience

Thanks AK, it certainly makes RA much more interesting. I’ll overlook the missing full stop and comma from your last post.

arescarti42 said :

How embarrassing, I don’t think I can bare to post again. The shame!

No don’t stop. The piss taking on here is part of the grand RA experience

Beserk Keyboard Warrior10:42 pm 20 Jul 09

I make a mint on the Eels, then I get to read this… oh how I loooove nights like these.

How embarrassing, I don’t think I can bare to post again. The shame!

Maybe watch Michael Douglas in Falling Down for hints on how to handle the situation

……must…resist…urge to correct bad spelling and grammar! I can count 5 incidences

What? Pity about the word ‘pity’ hey?

Noooooooooo, I have been out grammared. Touche thumper, touche. I’ll just disappear back into the shadows now.

Holden Caulfield10:23 pm 20 Jul 09

ofm said:
Shocked and offended, I reacted in a not-so-favourable way and stood up, grabbed my bag and, as calmly as I could, told him that all he needed to do was say no and that he “didn’t need to be a prick about it”. I admit I shouldn’t have insulted the man

Is that all you said, or is there more to reacting in a “not-so-favourable way”?

Either way, his alleged reaction was pretty poor.

I guess the only other thing you could have done differently is to have asked before sitting down.

A pretty disturbing experience for the OP. I guess people with emotional and mental issues can be business owners too, although one wonders how they remain so.

It reminds me of a few months back, a colleague rang a business in teh yellow pages for a quote to remove some rubbish from the office. It was called Canberra all Suburb Rubbish Removal.. the number was a mobile, but they had a big ad.

So they rang, asked the guy who answered if he was that business, and when he said yes asked if tehy could do the job (and described it), the guy quoted and gave a timeframe, and the colleague was happy and said they’d have to clear it but they’d be back in touch, whereupon the guy poured out a torrent of swearing and abuse.

This story reminded me of that incident.

arescarti42 said :

……must…resist…urge to correct bad spelling and grammar! I can count 5 incidences.

On another note, I used to frequent the Starbucks at Manuka at about 4pm on a Friday. One day I decided to take my Starbucks coffee and join a friend who was eating at the Michelle’s Patisserie below. We were the only two in the store, and the woman still came over and told me that I couldn’t drink their competitor’s product in her store (she did so politely). Fair enough, we both left without a fuss, but I found it surprising that she’d kick me out of her nearly empty store, especially when I was accompanying one of her customers.

Needless to say, I wasn’t terribly saddened when that Michelle’s closed down a few months later. Pitty about the Starbucks though.

I think if you are going to comment on spelling and grammar, you should make sure you get it right yourself.

arescarti42 said :

……must…resist…urge to correct bad spelling and grammar! I can count 5 incidences.

On another note, I used to frequent the Starbucks at Manuka at about 4pm on a Friday. One day I decided to take my Starbucks coffee and join a friend who was eating at the Michelle’s Patisserie below. We were the only two in the store, and the woman still came over and told me that I couldn’t drink their competitor’s product in her store (she did so politely). Fair enough, we both left without a fuss, but I found it surprising that she’d kick me out of her nearly empty store, especially when I was accompanying one of her customers.

Needless to say, I wasn’t terribly saddened when that Michelle’s closed down a few months later. Pitty about the Starbucks though.

I think if you are going to comment on spelling and grammar, you should make sure you should get it right yourself.

One day this website is going to be sued for defamation with one-sided posts like this. I’m sure Loui would tell a very different story, one equally embellished, emotional and vitriolic. The truth would be somewhere in between, but it’s Loui who loses the clientele of people vowing never to go there on the strength of an anonymous post, and OFM’s identity remains a mystery. Where do you work, OFM, so I can enjoy free shelter from the elements?

Mike Bessenger said :

This is great, just made my day.
Your having a laugh. For the sake of a couple of $$ you couldn’t of bought a coffee to support the man that provides the heating and the seat for you to wait. Then you insult him.
I agree, he had know right to make a threat like that, but you put him in an awkward position. Yes he should of said no. I’ll have a guess and say he’s not Australian, speaks poor English and has a short temper?
C’mon mate, your taking the piss.

……must…resist…urge to correct bad spelling and grammar! I can count 5 incidences.

On another note, I used to frequent the Starbucks at Manuka at about 4pm on a Friday. One day I decided to take my Starbucks coffee and join a friend who was eating at the Michelle’s Patisserie below. We were the only two in the store, and the woman still came over and told me that I couldn’t drink their competitor’s product in her store (she did so politely). Fair enough, we both left without a fuss, but I found it surprising that she’d kick me out of her nearly empty store, especially when I was accompanying one of her customers.

Needless to say, I wasn’t terribly saddened when that Michelle’s closed down a few months later. Pitty about the Starbucks though.

Loui sounds similar to the guy Pommie Bastard tried to help in Cook

One staff member threatened the life of a person, and another backed up the threat. I don’t care what else was said or done, there is no reason for that.

And with a report to the police like that, they should at least go and have a chat. Plus, would be interested to know if he owns a rifle….

eyeLikeCarrots9:17 pm 20 Jul 09

OFM, sorry I but I think you made a twonk out of yourself on this one.

You could have asked to take a seat, which I am going to guess would have gotten you a ‘No, unless you buy yourself a nice warm coffee or hot chocolate’.

You’ve acknowledged that you shouldn’t have responded the way you did.

Save yourself the hassle and never go there again. Some of the people reading this post might do the same so his business might get stung.

Your pride will heal in a few days.

Yeah I reckon I’ll be doing without Loui too, sounds like someone’s got an anger management problem.

Danman, I don’t recall anyone saying that to you in the Firestone thread.

Mike Bessenger9:12 pm 20 Jul 09

If he has been there over 7 years he must be doing something right, even starbuck didn’t last that long.

trevar said :

Would love to hear Loui’s side, but I hardly think that sort of behaviour can be excused, under any circumstances. It costs a proprietor nothing to allow a person to sit in an otherwise empty cafe, and it gives the proprietor goodwill. So, to refuse OFM’s offer of goodwill seems completely and utterly stupid. But to not only refuse this offer, but also insult the offerer, and go on to make death threats is something that should not be tolerated.

The cafe will get what’s coming, but the police, unfortunately, will be defended. They might not be able to prosecute, but they can always investigate, and simply the act of questioning the manager, whether or not they could pursue it, would be enough to establish whether further investigation would be necessary, and to give the twat the idea that threatening the life of someone for asking permission to sit in a chair might not be all that good an idea.

Based on the logic of the AFP, then, I suppose that murder, or rape, or theft is also acceptable if there are no witnesses?

Well there’s a difference there, it’s a little thing called “evidence” in the three instances you list there is normally some sort of evidence of a crime occurring. In a verbal slanging match with no witnesses there is no evidence. I wouldn’t be expecting the police to waste their time on such things unless there was an immediate threat to someone’s life, in this case there was clearly no actual threat to life. Going into someone’s small business to just sit down is clearly pretentious in itself and I’m sure it wouldn’t have killed you to spend a few bucks and buy a coffee. I think the guy could have been more polite and just told you to fuck off instead, threatening to shoot you is a bit over the top. Build a bridge and buy your coffee elsewhere.

3 words: switch to decaf.

I’ve witnessed Loui take offence and get very verbally abusive at what he perceived as “attitude” from a fellow customer. He has a full-on inferiority complex. I’ve never been back since and that was seven years ago …

Score:

Loui the Lip 0
Tightarse ofm 0

looks like a draw guys…

I say quit while you’re both behind.

It’s pretty standard for Australian customer service. To be fair,though, like every other mug who opens a cafe thinking it’s a gold mine (despite the competition and average ROI of 2%), he’s probably pretty stressed out about how to pay the staff and the bills.

Hospitality varies up and down the value chain, but much of what is not the top end (and even then it can happen) relies upon paying pretty low wages to people who do not understand the concept of service. For many of us, it’s a job we do to get through Uni or TAFE, and then happily leave it behind.

But there’s always 2 sides to it. There are a lot of customers who think they are God’s gift, so a bit of civility and appreciation on both sides would help. Finally, if we wonder why people under 30 don’t know how to give good customer service, think about it the other way around – when was the last time you saw a young person actually get treated with respect as a customer, instead of as a pain in the neck or potential shoplifter? Stands to reason in that case that they have no concept of good (let alone excellent) customer service.

Maybe we should invite large numbers of Japanese staff in to show Aussies how it’s done 🙂

been there a couple of times. Its dingy, coffee is ok and service so so. Why bother? Nice urban myth though.

Granny said :

Completely shocked, horrified and now a bit scared, I immediately went to the nearest table where a middle-aged woman and a late-teenage male were sitting and asked them in complete shock whether they heard the threat that was just made on my life over a cup of coffee.

Sorry but I have to laugh. Do you a) think he really is going to hunt you down and shoot you, and b) always look for the nearest help when someone says something mean?

It sounds like both parties have blown the situation completely out of proportion.

I’m with Granny on this. He’s lost my business too – a polite “please leave” would have been quite sufficient and, yes, I do go there – correction, did go there quite often even though I think they have ramped up the bill once or twice – maybe they charged for the seat.

Special G said :

I’m with Loui on this one. Sure he lost the plot a bit but what sort of pretentious wanker expects to sit in a cafe without ordering a coffee. Stop being so cheap and pay the $4.

Pretentious wankers like me. If I need help, I don’t expect to have my life threatened. Does the man not understand the word, “No”??

If he had a brain larger than a pteranodon he’d realise that to belittle a patron for a polite request, he’d

A) lost the opportunity to make the empty shop look busier, thus providing the impression of a successful and desirable establishment and attracting other paying customers;
B) cost his business all the lunches and coffees this customer would have provided for years to come, not to mention the loss in business from potential positive word of mouth in additon to the loss in business from resulting negative word of mouth
C) besmirched the good name of his own business by ridiculous, unwarranted and completely over the top standover tactics and intimidation.

What an idiot.

Would love to hear Loui’s side, but I hardly think that sort of behaviour can be excused, under any circumstances. It costs a proprietor nothing to allow a person to sit in an otherwise empty cafe, and it gives the proprietor goodwill. So, to refuse OFM’s offer of goodwill seems completely and utterly stupid. But to not only refuse this offer, but also insult the offerer, and go on to make death threats is something that should not be tolerated.

The cafe will get what’s coming, but the police, unfortunately, will be defended. They might not be able to prosecute, but they can always investigate, and simply the act of questioning the manager, whether or not they could pursue it, would be enough to establish whether further investigation would be necessary, and to give the twat the idea that threatening the life of someone for asking permission to sit in a chair might not be all that good an idea.

Based on the logic of the AFP, then, I suppose that murder, or rape, or theft is also acceptable if there are no witnesses?

I’m with Loui on this one. Sure he lost the plot a bit but what sort of pretentious wanker expects to sit in a cafe without ordering a coffee. Stop being so cheap and pay the $4.

Well there is always 3 sides to the story….Yours, His and the truth…

being a long-standing, if now infrequent, loui’s regular, i find it disturbing he would insult you like this, but i can’t say i find your own expectations of any sort of high order. shame on you both, and i will mention this thread to loui when next i see him and see what sort of explanation he can provide.

should be interesting, having both sides.

stonedwookie7:23 pm 20 Jul 09

sounds like a wog prick after reading your story i wont be going there ever

Asking for a little human kindness can certainly be risky business ….

it’s a shame that as a society we seem to be losing ‘human kindness’ at a rapid rate

meant how not hoe

hetzjagd1 said :

I can’t remember where but I recognise the name of that cafe so I must see it on my daily commute through civic. I’m totally going there to kick it eith a book for a bit during lunch tomorrow and see what happens

lol – love it ! let me know hoe you go

taco said :

you sound like a pretentious un-australian git…

When did “un-australian” become an insult? Most of the world is un-Australian moron.

As a fellow commuter I know it’s rough standing in the cold waiting for the bus but… You’re a bit naive to think you can just sit in someone’s cafe without ordering something. That however does not excuse the man’s behaviour in any way. What a revolting way to speak to someone!! You have every right to be shocked by his response- it was totally disproportionate to your question. It’s not as if you pooped in his pot plants!

The last time I had shocking service I found out a few weeks later that business was going under… what goes around comes around.

Name and Shame!!!

oh wait…

😛

He rose from the table; and, advancing to the master, basin and spoon in hand, said:

“Please, sir, I want some more.”

“What!” said the master.

“Please, sir,” replied Oliver, “I want some more.” The master aimed a blow at Oliver’s head with the ladle; pinioned him in his arm; and shrieked for the beadle.

The board were sitting in solemn conclave, when Mr. Bumble rushed into the room and, addressing the gentleman in the high chair, said, “Mr. Limbkins, I beg your pardon, sir! Oliver Twist has asked for more!” There was a general start. Horror was depicted on every countenance.

“For MORE!” said Mr. Limbkins. “[A]fter he had eaten the supper allotted by the dietary?”

“He did, sir,” replied Bumble.

“That boy will be hung,” said the gentleman. “I know that boy will be hung.” Oliver was ordered into instant confinement; and a bill was pasted on the gate the next morning, offering a reward of five pounds to anybody who would take Oliver Twist off the hands of the parish.

Please Sir, Can I Have Some More?

Asking for a little human kindness can certainly be risky business ….

I can’t remember where but I recognise the name of that cafe so I must see it on my daily commute through civic. I’m totally going there to kick it eith a book for a bit during lunch tomorrow and see what happens

Mike Bessenger6:01 pm 20 Jul 09

This is great, just made my day.
Your having a laugh. For the sake of a couple of $$ you couldn’t of bought a coffee to support the man that provides the heating and the seat for you to wait. Then you insult him.
I agree, he had know right to make a threat like that, but you put him in an awkward position. Yes he should of said no. I’ll have a guess and say he’s not Australian, speaks poor English and has a short temper?
C’mon mate, your taking the piss.

hahaha +10 points to taco for the un-australian comment, top work my friend.

Just to clear it up, I wasn’t expecting anything other than a polite response to a polite request. I knew that it’s not usually the right thing to do, but I thought that seeing as they seemed like friendly people when I was chatting to them last time that they might not mind me sitting there, seeing as the business was empty anyway. Also, I figured that even if they didn’t mind it then fine, I’d just leave with no problem. I didn’t expect to be harassed for it.

So, I’m guessing Loui is a 10 espresso a day guy?

whilst ofm shouldn’t have expected to sit in cafe without ordering i tend to think that Loui’s response was totally uncalled for – disgraceful in fact.

housebound said :

Ever wonder why the place was half empty?

Great work, Loui’s! Ciao!

Mike Crowther5:46 pm 20 Jul 09

“…I have been told by the police that because the only two witnesses were also involved in the incident that there’s nothing that can be done…”

If this is true I’m giving up my day job and getting into crime. Love this town….

grunge_hippy5:43 pm 20 Jul 09

i agree that his reaction was very extreme and definitely unnecessary, but if he let every tom dick and harry just ‘come in from the cold’ and sit and not order something, he wouldnt make any money.

just because you enjoyed a coffee there in the past doesn’t give you free reign to just come in and sit whenever you like.

extreme reaction, yes. the sentiment behind it, not so much.

I’m going to side with “Loui” as he makes great coffee and you sound like a pretentious un-australian git… calling the newspaper, the department that leases the building and the police? Drama queen much? go buy a can of HTFU

The correct response would have been “sorry mate” and move along after he’d told you to piss off like he rightfully should have, not escalate things by abusing him back

Or you could have done what anyone else would have done and just bought *something*

Seeing this almost makes me want to go there, and not order to see if you where special, or this is the standard treatment given to all not yet customers.

small piddly coffees – not worth the money

They make an awesome Eggs Benedict.

Ever wonder why the place was half empty?

the bad language that the owner gave me a while ago made me stop going there, but hey, it isn’t like he is the only cafe in town…

Here we go…

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