21 August 2012

Concrete Islands at the New Traffic Lights in Holt – Logic please?!!!

| Chups
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Why have the concrete islands at the new traffic lights in Holt been installed in a manner that forces all traffic heading East on Southern Cross Drive to merge down to one lane before those cars wanting to turn left into Florey Drive can exit into the very short slip lane?

Why did they not keep the longer slip lane, facilitating better traffic flow for those cars turning left into Florey Drive?

To my mind, the following implications apply:

    — No-one will be able to turn right out of Starke Street at peak times. Traffic will be backed up past the Starke Street/Southern Cross Intersection when the lights are red.

    — No-one will be able to turn right out of Beaurepaire Crescent at peak times. Drivers trying to avoid the traffic jam at the new traffic lights will turn up Beaurepaire Crescent creating a constant line-up of cars turning off Southern Cross Drive. When really busy, traffic will possibly be backed up past this intersection as well when the lights are red.

    — Once the back-log of east-bound cars are cleared, drivers waiting to turn right out of Starke Street and Beaurepaire Crescent will then have to wait for the west bound traffic to pass that has just been given the green light.

The EIS into the first stage of New Macgregor showed an increase in traffic on Spofforth Street from 1200 to 5200 vehicles a day. Now that the 13 speed bumps have been installed on Spofforth Street, most of these vehicles (which probably number even more now that Stages 2 and 3 have been completed) are all travelling down Southern Cross Drive. That’s a lot of cars travelling through the new bottle neck each day.

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Chups said :

UPDATE – A couple of days ago, the newly laid kerb on the Macgregor side of the road was dug up and the road made a bit wider.

Hope that hasn’t made them blow the very low budget.

UPDATE – A couple of days ago, the newly laid kerb on the Macgregor side of the road was dug up and the road made a bit wider.

JC said :

shirty_bear said :

Ex Warrior said :

Traffic along Southern Cross far heavier than prior to the ridiculous speed humps on Spoffoth.

Can somebody pls explain the thinking behind keeping Spoffoth and DrakeBrockman free of traffic?

Previous best guess was that someone (self-)important lives on Spofforth, and produced this triumph of NIMBY-ism just because they felt like it. And because they could.

Seems about right.

I believe either past or current MLA lives on Spofforth Street.

Of course the speed humps and chicanes that were installed on Dalrymple St. Red Hill had nothing to do with the fact that Kate Carnell has lived there for decades.I remember picking up her then husband in the cab and he delighted in telling me that he could negotiate the chicanes in his alfa at 75 kph.

PBO said :

As oppossed to the nicely flowing way it went prior to when the works were commenced? I drive down there all the time and up until recently, i have never seen traffic backed up on there. There was never a problem there to begin with unless you are an absolute f###tard of a driver.

Correct the traffic did flow nicely. So nicely in fact that it was very difficult to safely turn right out of Florey Drive. Hence people took risks and the result was an accident black spot.

Anyway we should wait and see what it is REALLY like once the finish. It may surprise us all and actually work, albeit with a bit of a delay whilst waiting for a traffic light.

As for the OP’s claim was having a bit of a look today and it seems to be that the left turn out of Southern Cross Drive into Florey will still be as long, if not longer than it was before. The only thing I reckon they should have done is closed the entry to the service road between Florey Drive and Starke Street and let them use the one further up.

“Why have the concrete islands at the new traffic lights in Holt been installed in a manner that forces all traffic heading East on Southern Cross Drive to merge down to one lane before those cars wanting to turn left into Florey Drive can exit into the very short slip lane?”

Un foto por favor?

Would help us picture what’s going on. I’m too lazy to venture north side 🙂

thatsnotme said :

Jim Jones said :

At very least I’m hoping that the installation of traffic lights should help this by periodically stopping Southern Cross Drive so that Florey Drive can get a run. Beaurepaire St is still gonna be a problem, because a more complete approach was needed to treat the problem.

Gigantic roundabout.

Are you confusing Beaurepaire Crescent for Starke St? Beaurepaire is further up Southern Cross, leading up to the old Holt Primary.

Personally, I think the lines of traffic when the lollypop men have been active will be nothing on the chaos that will happen when the lights are working for real. At least the traffic controls during road works have only been during the day, and not peak times. Once the lights are stopping traffic during the morning and afternoon peak, the lines that we’ve seen will look like nothing.

I hope I’m wrong, and would love to report back soon to say it’s all actually working well, but at the moment the approach of only dealing with one of two problem intersections that are so close to each other, purely on economic grounds, is looking as stupid as it always sounded.

Yeah, sorry – Starke St.

To be honest, I don’t really care if the traffic backs up a bit, just so long as those dangerous intersections get a bit of breathing room and the all-too-frequent crashes abate a bit.

But I suspect that the effect will only be moderate, and that there will be additional issues with people running red lights (which seems to be incredibly in vogue at the moment).

+1 for gigantic roundabout. Or at least some sort of funky realignment allowing for a so how controlled intersection. I think there is plenty of room.

But those options cost rather a lot, so they haven’t happened. Even though this actually impacts on rather a lot of traffic.

Jim Jones said :

At very least I’m hoping that the installation of traffic lights should help this by periodically stopping Southern Cross Drive so that Florey Drive can get a run. Beaurepaire St is still gonna be a problem, because a more complete approach was needed to treat the problem.

Gigantic roundabout.

Are you confusing Beaurepaire Crescent for Starke St? Beaurepaire is further up Southern Cross, leading up to the old Holt Primary.

Personally, I think the lines of traffic when the lollypop men have been active will be nothing on the chaos that will happen when the lights are working for real. At least the traffic controls during road works have only been during the day, and not peak times. Once the lights are stopping traffic during the morning and afternoon peak, the lines that we’ve seen will look like nothing.

I hope I’m wrong, and would love to report back soon to say it’s all actually working well, but at the moment the approach of only dealing with one of two problem intersections that are so close to each other, purely on economic grounds, is looking as stupid as it always sounded.

PBO said :

wildturkeycanoe said :

Don’t worry people, once the lights are in operation, you’ll see the traffic flow continue to behave exactly the way it was when the “lollipop” people were directing it.

As oppossed to the nicely flowing way it went prior to when the works were commenced? I drive down there all the time and up until recently, i have never seen traffic backed up on there. There was never a problem there to begin with unless you are an absolute f###tard of a driver.

I completely agree with you that it’s a total sh1tfight at the moment. But the major problem are the accidents that occur when traffic tries to pull onto Southern Cross Drive from Florey Drive or Beaurepaire St (the Kippax shops traffic). This gets very backed up (particularly the after-work crowd) and there’s been a relentless slew of accidents. At very least I’m hoping that the installation of traffic lights should help this by periodically stopping Southern Cross Drive so that Florey Drive can get a run. Beaurepaire St is still gonna be a problem, because a more complete approach was needed to treat the problem.

Gigantic roundabout.

wildturkeycanoe said :

Don’t worry people, once the lights are in operation, you’ll see the traffic flow continue to behave exactly the way it was when the “lollipop” people were directing it.

Oh great…in that case all three implications in my original post apply. :-/

wildturkeycanoe said :

Don’t worry people, once the lights are in operation, you’ll see the traffic flow continue to behave exactly the way it was when the “lollipop” people were directing it.

As oppossed to the nicely flowing way it went prior to when the works were commenced? I drive down there all the time and up until recently, i have never seen traffic backed up on there. There was never a problem there to begin with unless you are an absolute f###tard of a driver.

Chups said :

Ex- Warrier, I think I can explain a bit what happened with Spofforth Street. When West Macgregor was being built, all of the construction traffic was going along Spofforth St. A number of residents kept logs which showed a double trailer truck went up/down the street every 5 minutes from 8am to 6pm. Those logs were submitted to TAMS along with a petition that was signed by every resident on the street asking for the trucks to be taken off the street and directed down Southern Cross Drive (the primary road they were legally supposed to be using anyway) due to the noise created and dangerous speed the fully laden trucks were traveling. This eventually happened which was great and everyone was happy with the outcome as no-one had any issue with the cars, just the massive trucks. However, the ACT Govt then did a street speed analysis and found that 15% of daily traffic was traveling at 75kph or higher. As Spofforth St is a 50kph zone the Govt then decided to install the (perhaps over enthusiastic) 13 speed bumps. I would contend that the changes to Spofforth Street were not driven by NIMBYism but by safety. However, your guess is as good as mine regarding who subsequently decided that 13 speed bumps were necessary. Who knows, that may have indeed been a berry good idea! I would suspect though that the residents who have to use the road every day like them the least of anyone.

Thanks for clearing that up Wayne.

wildturkeycanoe6:51 am 22 Aug 12

Don’t worry people, once the lights are in operation, you’ll see the traffic flow continue to behave exactly the way it was when the “lollipop” people were directing it.

shirty_bear said :

Ex Warrior said :

Traffic along Southern Cross far heavier than prior to the ridiculous speed humps on Spoffoth.

Can somebody pls explain the thinking behind keeping Spoffoth and DrakeBrockman free of traffic?

Previous best guess was that someone (self-)important lives on Spofforth, and produced this triumph of NIMBY-ism just because they felt like it. And because they could.

Seems about right.

I believe either past or current MLA lives on Spofforth Street.

Ex- Warrier, I think I can explain a bit what happened with Spofforth Street. When West Macgregor was being built, all of the construction traffic was going along Spofforth St. A number of residents kept logs which showed a double trailer truck went up/down the street every 5 minutes from 8am to 6pm. Those logs were submitted to TAMS along with a petition that was signed by every resident on the street asking for the trucks to be taken off the street and directed down Southern Cross Drive (the primary road they were legally supposed to be using anyway) due to the noise created and dangerous speed the fully laden trucks were traveling. This eventually happened which was great and everyone was happy with the outcome as no-one had any issue with the cars, just the massive trucks. However, the ACT Govt then did a street speed analysis and found that 15% of daily traffic was traveling at 75kph or higher. As Spofforth St is a 50kph zone the Govt then decided to install the (perhaps over enthusiastic) 13 speed bumps. I would contend that the changes to Spofforth Street were not driven by NIMBYism but by safety. However, your guess is as good as mine regarding who subsequently decided that 13 speed bumps were necessary. Who knows, that may have indeed been a berry good idea! I would suspect though that the residents who have to use the road every day like them the least of anyone.

Heavs said :

shirty_bear said :

Ex Warrior said :

Traffic along Southern Cross far heavier than prior to the ridiculous speed humps on Spoffoth.

Can somebody pls explain the thinking behind keeping Spoffoth and DrakeBrockman free of traffic?

Previous best guess was that someone (self-)important lives on Spofforth, and produced this triumph of NIMBY-ism just because they felt like it. And because they could.

Seems about right.

Berry good answer.

Wayne the world would you say Berry?

shirty_bear said :

Ex Warrior said :

Traffic along Southern Cross far heavier than prior to the ridiculous speed humps on Spoffoth.

Can somebody pls explain the thinking behind keeping Spoffoth and DrakeBrockman free of traffic?

Previous best guess was that someone (self-)important lives on Spofforth, and produced this triumph of NIMBY-ism just because they felt like it. And because they could.

Seems about right.

Berry good answer.

Ex Warrior said :

Traffic along Southern Cross far heavier than prior to the ridiculous speed humps on Spoffoth.

Can somebody pls explain the thinking behind keeping Spoffoth and DrakeBrockman free of traffic?

Previous best guess was that someone (self-)important lives on Spofforth, and produced this triumph of NIMBY-ism just because they felt like it. And because they could.

Seems about right.

Ex Warrior said :

Can somebody pls explain the thinking behind keeping Spoffoth and DrakeBrockman free of traffic?

Because Spofforth and Drake Brockman are 60km/h zones, and Southern Cross is a…. ummm… errr… 60km/h zone? Although it is wider… except where it is narrow and has busy intersections. and Spofforth and DB have residential houses along them… like much of Southern Cross.

Actually, no, I can’t tell you.

Traffic along Southern Cross far heavier than prior to the ridiculous speed humps on Spoffoth.

Can somebody pls explain the thinking behind keeping Spoffoth and DrakeBrockman free of traffic?

I cannot understand traffic “engineers” in this city. It seems as though they have no idea of how things work on the ground. Everything is done from their office and reality never intrudes into their thought processes.

I had a discussion with one of the foreign-trained “engineers” a few years ago and suggested he come and stand on the side of the road with me and observe what was actually happening.

He wasn’t interested in seeing that what he had done had actually stuffed things up far worse than the original problem.

p1 said :

Don’t worry, when this approach fails, they will move onto the next cheapest option on the list.

+1

A ring road around the golf course onto William Hovell would help remove traffic. Probably should link it up with Dunlop while they are at it.

It’s only going to get worse as more and more houses are added to those new suburbs.

Don’t worry, when this approach fails, they will move onto the next cheapest option on the list.

Same issue on Baldwin Drive Kaleen, right turn into Maribyrnong Ave. (new Lawson intersection). Traffic Island forces a very short right turning lane in a semi high speed area. Only a matter of time before the rear end prang happens in heavy traffic. Very poor design and a waste of concrete and expense at that…

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