8 February 2011

Condamine St Crackdown on Scofflaw Cyclists

| johnboy
Join the conversation
51
cyclists dismount

dtc has warned that police are out busting cyclists failing to dismount when using pedestrian crossings:

#1 dtc
9:53 am, 08 Feb 11

And at the Condamine St crosswalk, near Turner primary, the police are stopping cyclists who don’t dismount when using the crosswalk (previously discussed here on RA – but I can’t find the link). With the statement that ‘many cars dont slow down so you need to get off your bike’ and warning of $70 fines.

Our previous look at the approach of riders to these intersections is still available.

Join the conversation

51
All Comments
  • All Comments
  • Website Comments
LatestOldest
troll-sniffer10:15 pm 11 Feb 11

Snarky said :

It’s now been 3 days since this was posted – can any locals or regulars tell us if the crackdown has caused cyclists to mend their scofflaw devil-may-care road-crossing ways?

Oh yeah I ride most of the inner north on the other side of Northbourne Ave and it has me quakin’ in dem boots, boss… every 10 metres I stop, dismount, confirm I’m not on a pedestrian crossing and ride on, all the time shiverin’ with dat fear dat da big blue man gonna get me. Oh yeah, ever since the news broke all I sees is cyclists bein’ extra careful not to upset da Riot-ACT readers in case deys be mown down…

What’s the problem? As an occasional cyclist, I have no issue with dismounting at a ped. crossing. It’s the law, isn’t it?

Gerroff yer bikes, yer clowns.

Snarky said :

It’s now been 3 days since this was posted – can any locals or regulars tell us if the crackdown has caused cyclists to mend their scofflaw devil-may-care road-crossing ways?

Nope but I do give way to vehicles & predestrians before crossing.

It’s now been 3 days since this was posted – can any locals or regulars tell us if the crackdown has caused cyclists to mend their scofflaw devil-may-care road-crossing ways?

OpenYourMind said :

As a car driver, I just don’t get what the big deal is. Occasionally I get to a pedestrian crossing and there is a pedestrian, a jogger or a bicycle. I stop and let them through. Is it really that difficult?

The difficulty is peoples spatial awareness. You would be amased at how many people dont have it outside of their car let alone inside their car…..

I doo agree, its no biggie, approach the crossing with the exptation that you will have to stop & its not a drama.

The Traineediplomat8:33 am 11 Feb 11

triffid said :

…. and attempt to play Hector the Safety Cat by looking left and right) .

I used to have that cassette!!!!

OpenYourMind6:43 am 11 Feb 11

dj_andy_g, do you realise that most of us cyclists on any given ride on a cycle/recreational path safely cross a multitude of roads? For some unknown reason, there are a handful of crossings that are deemed to be pedestrian crossings, yet there are heaps of others that aren’t. As an example, the Bowen Dr crossing is incredibly dangerous for pedestrians and cyclists to cross due to cars speeding around the bend yet the one has no pedestrian crossing.
Hopefully the Pedal Power push to change this law is succesful. If not, why not just erase the white strips on the handful of crossings on cycling/recreational paths. The same rule can apply for them as for all the other non marked crossings. i.e. we give way to cars before crossing. If a car chooses to wave us through then we return with a friendly wave.
As a car driver, I just don’t get what the big deal is. Occasionally I get to a pedestrian crossing and there is a pedestrian, a jogger or a bicycle. I stop and let them through. Is it really that difficult?

Red Dog # 25

The little girl in question did the right thing, I believe her mother had told her what to do, she is already an example of what is the right thing to do, she doesn’t need me to show her, I just smiled at her and she at me. It goes both ways!

dj_andy_g said :

i wonder how many people commenting are actually familiar with this crossing. cyclists hurtling towards the crossing, particularly coming from the turner side, are incredibly hard to see.

but for those who continue to ignore the dismount signs, go ahead – if you get hit, its your own stupid fault. i feel the police and dpp would see it the same way.

We’re not talking about people hurtling across the crossing. That’s just suicidal.

You ride up slowly, if there’s a car coming you wait for it to either drive through or to stop and let you through. Just like I do when I’m walking. I’ve seen enough drivers drive through crossings when there are pedestrians on them.

I wonder what the rule is for crossing a road on a bike when there is no crossing? Can I just cross the road 1 or 2 metres behind the crossing and get away scott free?

I wonder if any cyclists did a runner when stopped by the cops?

i wonder how many people commenting are actually familiar with this crossing. cyclists hurtling towards the crossing, particularly coming from the turner side, are incredibly hard to see.

but for those who continue to ignore the dismount signs, go ahead – if you get hit, its your own stupid fault. i feel the police and dpp would see it the same way.

Lin said :

I call for a cyclists to strictly follow this rule for a set period of time just to make a point. Stop slowly, dismount very carefully, walk across slowly – which I’d have to do anyway if I have my daughter on the back of the bike and it being so top heavy makes it awkward to push. The whole process would make car drivers have to wait at least 5 times longer than when the cyclist just rides across.
.

& stop at the stop lights, this morning on Beazley street 4 riders ran the stop light whil another rider and I waited until they turned green.

I call for a cyclists to strictly follow this rule for a set period of time just to make a point. Stop slowly, dismount very carefully, walk across slowly – which I’d have to do anyway if I have my daughter on the back of the bike and it being so top heavy makes it awkward to push. The whole process would make car drivers have to wait at least 5 times longer than when the cyclist just rides across.

And to whoever that was who waves cars through at pedestrian crossing: I actually hate that when I’m driving. I know I have to give way to anyone using the pedestrian crossing and I couldn’t care less if they walk, ride or summersault across. I expect anyone road user to take their right of way and it takes me longer to make sure that this guy waving at me actually wants to forfeit his right of way than it does to slow down/stop and let him cross. Especially as I usually try to anticipate other road users’ behaviour and slow down well in time so I don’t have to come to a complete stop. That only works if everyone does what they’re supposed to do.

Holden Caulfield2:48 pm 10 Feb 11

Bane said :

A little common sense doesn’t hurt

Indeed and in this day and age of OH&S awareness, common sense would dictate having bicycles sharing the road with cars and trucks shouldn’t happen. But there you go. All road users have to make the best of a bad situation.

georgesgenitals1:35 pm 10 Feb 11

Jim Jones said :

georgesgenitals said :

Bane said :

We shouldn’t have to dismount from our bikes when we’re on a bike path, especially when simply riding slowly achieves the same result

Us motorists shouldn’t have to come to a complete stop at stop signs, especially when driving through slowly achieves the same result.

It doesn’t.

It does. The purpose is to ensure we look carefully and give way before we drive forward.

The point I was making is that laws are there for a reason. If we are going to insist on total compliance (as many here seem to do with road rules, and it is not an unreasonable position), then we should expect the same from all road users.

georgesgenitals said :

Bane said :

We shouldn’t have to dismount from our bikes when we’re on a bike path, especially when simply riding slowly achieves the same result

Us motorists shouldn’t have to come to a complete stop at stop signs, especially when driving through slowly achieves the same result.

It doesn’t.

georgesgenitals1:08 pm 10 Feb 11

Bane said :

We shouldn’t have to dismount from our bikes when we’re on a bike path, especially when simply riding slowly achieves the same result

Us motorists shouldn’t have to come to a complete stop at stop signs, especially when driving through slowly achieves the same result.

OpenYourMind said :

This law is ridiculous and you don’t have to cycle for too long to realise why.  Here’s Pedal Power’s reasons why the current pedestrian crossing law needs to be changed:
http://www.pedalpower.org.au/advocacy/docs/safer-crossings%20brief.pdf
 
 

Excellent article, +1

We shouldn’t have to dismount from our bikes when we’re on a bike path, especially when simply riding slowly achieves the same result

As an aside, to the guy who said that all road rules apply to bikes as well, I hope you remember that when you’re stuck behind me as I ride up the steep hill on one-laned Dryandra street with double-line markings preventing you from overtaking me. A little common sense doesn’t hurt

Triffin # 29

Right on!

I don’t understand why some people complain about cyclist riding across when it’s safe to do so. I put it down to the fact they’re jealous as they see cyclists getting their own 2m’s of road space all over the place and just want to get one up on them.

The rule I’d compare it to is jaywalking. Do all the law abiding citizens who are so jealous that a cyclist can ride across a pedestrian crossing stand there waiting for the green man while the road is empty?

red_dog said :

triffid said :

But, you break stride, or slow your pace, and pause, and lift your head, and perform a passable Hector routine checking the road left and right, then I — having observed you do all this from some distance back down the road — will respond to your common courtesy in kind; my vehicle coming to a graceful and gentle stop as I wave you across my path.

Couldn’t agree more … common sense and courtesy … it’s what makes the world a more pleasant place.

As a cyclist I actually can see merit in this (other than the potential to maim someone). I always prepare to stop at a crossing & come to a complete stop if there is a car coming. If they wave me through, its all good, if they sail though, I get to have dinner with my kids tonight. At plaves like Beazley St opposite the mawson Shops it is hard to see what is coming down the bike path if you are turning left off Athllon Drive.

Either way its no real biggie.

triffid said :

But, you break stride, or slow your pace, and pause, and lift your head, and perform a passable Hector routine checking the road left and right, then I — having observed you do all this from some distance back down the road — will respond to your common courtesy in kind; my vehicle coming to a graceful and gentle stop as I wave you across my path.

Couldn’t agree more … common sense and courtesy … it’s what makes the world a more pleasant place.

red_dog said :

You will be if you hit them while in the process of ‘teaching them a lesson’.

Which, of course, is very comforting to the ‘hitee’ if they are dead, isn’t it?

cleo said :

Today there was a young girl, about 8 years old who waited to cross the road, and walked across with her bike, puts adults to shame.

That same 8yo will also learn by your example of driving straight through a crossing when you know someone may be put in danger by you wielding your vehicle vigilante-style. Where’s the shame then?

No . . . that 8 year old will undoubtedly learn that if she pauses and assesses the risk, then the average motorist will observe this and stop for her.

Here’s how this works, gang. You blithly play the bluff and majestically sail out onto the crossing in front of me without any form of hesitation or acknowledgement of anything (other than the sik tunes cranking out of your iPod. I mean . . . you don’t even lift your eyeline and attempt to play Hector the Safety Cat by looking left and right) and I will call your bluff by — if traffic density permits — locking my brakes / engaging the handbrake to pull up in a cloud of smoke and noise some 4 cm from your startled visage. Gesticulate and yell at me all you want. I don’t care. My car is double glazed so I’ll struggle to hear you. And, anyway, you’ve just demonstrated to me that you’re just another selfish dill who only thinks of themselves.

But, you break stride, or slow your pace, and pause, and lift your head, and perform a passable Hector routine checking the road left and right, then I — having observed you do all this from some distance back down the road — will respond to your common courtesy in kind; my vehicle coming to a graceful and gentle stop as I wave you across my path.

What is it with common sense and simple courtesy and the occasional thought spared for others that nearly everyone seems to struggle with these days? There has to be a PhD in that.

Grail said :

Solidarity said :

C’mon people, it’s not hard.

Do you stop your car and turn off the engine every time you come to a “STOP” sign? No you don’t. What if the law was changed to say that you had to stop the car and turn off the engine, because too many drivers run stop signs and red lights?

Hyperbole. The equivalent in motoring terms would be police sitting at a stop sign and booking everybody who doesn’t wait a full three seconds, regardless of whether the road is clear. There are already plenty of rules which inconvenience motorists in the name of preventing the worst case scenario, you don’t need to start making up new ones.

Incidentally, I’m pretty sure there’s no legal requirement for cyclists to wear cleats. Maybe you should weigh up your legal requirement to dismount when deciding on your footwear, instead of saying that you can’t do it because of your cool shoes. To give another motoring parallel, it’s like lowering your car and then complaining that it scrapes on kerbs.

Grail said :

Solidarity said :

C’mon people, it’s not hard.

Do you stop your car and turn off the engine every time you come to a “STOP” sign? No you don’t. What if the law was changed to say that you had to stop the car and turn off the engine, because too many drivers run stop signs and red lights?

No, of course not. I’m not required to, Stop signs aren’t designed that way.

Much like how a pedestrian crossing isn’t designed for cyclists.

It’s a moot point anyway, as my license is suspended, so i’m on the bike anyway.

I ride through Manuka every day, several crossings there. It takes 0.2 seconds of time to jump off and walk across. I can’t believe people have a problem with this – The cyclist community really are just a bunch of whingers. I’ve even been abused by them when overtaking them, on a bicycle! Not my fault they’re not fit enough to keep going fast enough on thier $10k roadie, while i’m on a BMX.

ImagineThat said :

My two cents worth – The PED in pedestrian essentially means ‘foot’. A pedestrian crossing exists for people to walk across the road. A cyclist is not a pedestrian until they dismount.

While I totally agree with this comment the simplicity of that argument has been complicated by the fact that pedestrian crossings have been placed on shared paths that are designed to cater for both pedestrians and cyclists alike.

The whole crossing road issue is inconsistent in the ACT, on my 30km commute to work the crossings of Woodcock/Johnson Drives, Hurtle ave (& the other one in Bonython that I can remember the name of) and the driveway into the sea scouts are not marked. There is no clear marked definition of how to negotiate these interesections. Obviosy standard road rules apply in this case.

The only intersection with lights that I know of that you are allowed to ride across is on Akuna Street. This puzzles me as the pedestrian traffic here is more populated than say at the two Beazley St’s and Carruthers Street.

Bear in mind that if you follow the main trunking path up from Tuggeranong there are no actual intersections that have a bikes may cross light system. Drive around Sydney & they are everywhere in the city as are cycle only lanes.

I think the rule is defunct but as stated before, people ride against red lights here anyway, I bet they are same people who dont stop at stop signs in their cars.

cleo said :

… I don’t’ take any notice of them if they appear to go straight across, I just proceed ahead, so who is in the wrong?

You will be if you hit them while in the process of ‘teaching them a lesson’.

cleo said :

Today there was a young girl, about 8 years old who waited to cross the road, and walked across with her bike, puts adults to shame.

That same 8yo will also learn by your example of driving straight through a crossing when you know someone may be put in danger by you wielding your vehicle vigilante-style. Where’s the shame then?

Yay! It’s about time something was done, I can’t believe how many cyclists just ignore this road rule, they seem to think they have the right to just peddle across the pedestrian crossing without stopping and waiting to see if the driver will stop, I don’t’ take any notice of them if they appear to go straight across, I just proceed ahead, so who is in the wrong?
Today there was a young girl, about 8 years old who waited to cross the road, and walked across with her bike, puts adults to shame.

niftydog said :

The ACT is the only place I know of with this rule, and probably up to 95% of us ignore it. So is the problem with the disobedient citizens or the stupid rule?

A bit of googling suggests this is a national law… in almost all cases the text says something to the effect of:
Cyclists are not permitted to ride across a road on a pedestrian crossing, children’s crossing, or marked foot crossing. This includes pedestrian crossings situated at traffic lights.
You must dismount from your bicycle and walk across a pedestrian crossing, children’s crossing or marked foot crossing (crossing with lights) unless there is also a bicycle light at the crossing.
Qld
http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/Safety/Queensland-Road-Rules/Bicycle-rules.aspx
SA
http://www.sa.gov.au/upload/franchise/Transport,%20travel%20and%20motoring/Cycling/Cycling%20and%20the%20Law%20Booklet__web_.pdf
Vic
http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/NR/rdonlyres/8A00D79B-03C5-4084-B5C2-7BE6A60406D3/0/part_15.pdf
Tas
http://www.biketas.org.au/road_rules.php

My two cents worth – The PED in pedestrian essentially means ‘foot’. A pedestrian crossing exists for people to walk across the road. A cyclist is not a pedestrian until they dismount.

Solidarity said :

C’mon people, it’s not hard.

Do you stop your car and turn off the engine every time you come to a “STOP” sign? No you don’t. What if the law was changed to say that you had to stop the car and turn off the engine, because too many drivers run stop signs and red lights?

niftydog said :

Solidarity said :

C’mon people, it’s not hard.

On my relatively short commute I’d have to do this around 25 times each way. That could easily add 4-5 minutes or more to my 25 minute commute.

So, in the name of safety, lets drop all speed limits by 20%! That’s not hard either!

It’s simple.

If there are cars and people around, dismount.

If nobody is around, nobody is there to care (or run you over… or fine you!)

I’m a cyclist too.

Stop whinging. We have bigger things to worry about.

luv_this_city9:11 pm 08 Feb 11

Why not change the law and signs to ‘slow to walking pace before crossing’. I can’t understand why these zebra crossing have been put on popular cycling (shared) paths instead of crossing lights or just left alone like the used to be years ago.

I will continue to stop, politely wave drivers through crossings and then cycle across when clear as dismounting and walking in cleats is dangerous.

BTW did anybody actually get fined ??

Disregarding the law and self-preservation, who really want to hop off their bicycle? As I and many have said before, so long as you treat it like you would driving up to a stop sign, there’s not much point in actually dismounting. The major issue though as we all know is that far too many people don’t even bother slowing down.

As a cyclist, commuter and MTBer that’s made the occasional trip down that bike path. I’m starting to thing the best solution might just be to get rid of the pedestrian crossing (or worse, put in another traffic light).

Hitting up people with fines will help reduce the issue of riding across a road at 20-30km/h rolling the dice with drivers’ ability to see moving objects. In the end, when the police go away, people will just keep on doing it.

thy_dungeonman7:00 pm 08 Feb 11

Whenever I approach a pedestrian crossing on my bike I always slow down to the speed of a pedestrian and look both ways, that why once I’m on the crossing and any cars have stopped I can cross quickly and they can resume driving sooner. It saves wasting a lot of energy by coming to a full stop and dismounting. I think a full dismount is overkill perhaps the signs should simply read “cyclist slow down” as long as I’m moving at the same speed I see no reason why I shouldn’t be given the same consideration as a pedestrian especially since I’m certainly more visible.

The ACT is the only place I know of with this rule, and probably up to 95% of us ignore it. So is the problem with the disobedient citizens or the stupid rule?

The common sense approach is to slow down to walking pace and wait for the traffic to acknowledge you. This is what I observe people doing nearly all of the time. Still, enforcing this rule won’t make stupid people suddenly stop doing stupid things.

Solidarity said :

C’mon people, it’s not hard.

On my relatively short commute I’d have to do this around 25 times each way. That could easily add 4-5 minutes or more to my 25 minute commute.

So, in the name of safety, lets drop all speed limits by 20%! That’s not hard either!

Solidarity said :

Man, break the road rules in a car and you’re public enemy #1, break the road laws on a bicycle and it’s the laws fault.

C’mon people, it’s not hard.

+ 1

Road rules apply to cyclists too.

OpenYourMind4:32 pm 08 Feb 11

This law is ridiculous and you don’t have to cycle for too long to realise why.  Here’s Pedal Power’s reasons why the current pedestrian crossing law needs to be changed:
http://www.pedalpower.org.au/advocacy/docs/safer-crossings%20brief.pdf
 
 

Disinformation3:36 pm 08 Feb 11

The entire concept of zebra crossings is that it gives pedestrians, moving at a relatively slow speed, time be be seen by drivers. Drivers who should be alerted to the presence of a zebra crossing by appropriate signage.
The law says to dismount. It’s there for your protection to give that margin of safety.
Personally, I don’t care if you kill yourself via your own stupid actions. We need to address the medical advances that have knocked natural selection for a six in the last 100 years or so. I’m all for letting bad judgement calls kill idiots of all kinds, including cyclists. Survival of the Smartest is the new black.

I’m also up for leaving an impression in the back panels of cars that don’t stop for me on a pedestrian crossing. Yes, Asian lady driving a blue Range Rover in Civic near the Canberra Center. CSI will find MY boot print fits your right rear quarter panel. I have a rough idea what it cost you to fix too.

Laws aren’t made for no reason at all. Best to understand them before you rage about it.

I ride (only when the mood strikes these days) and have never dismounted for crossings . . . ever.

But, I am ceaslessly irritated by those of utter genius who sail imperiously across the road at crossings; seamingly oblivious, or diffident, to the vehicles (including my own) bearing down upon them at any measure speed above walking pace. Sure . . . if you happen to get run down because the equally inattentive P-plater simply ‘didn’t see you’ (‘cos you charged out unblinkingly on your commute like an Olympic gold in the individual pursuit depended on it) then the aforementioned P-plater will likely be charged with manslaughter. All of which is very comforting if you are dead.

Your Honour, I submit, with the Court’s indulgence, the routine and characteristic behaviourial displays at the Challis Street crossing in Dickson. At which crossing, Your Lordship, may be seen boundless evidence that sanctimoniously asserted ‘rights’ indeed cause unreasonable levels of risk to all road and path users.

Learn to track stand.

And, treat it like a normal ‘real’ crossroads . . . approach with caution and in anticipation of being cleaned up.

Oh . . . and red_dog. If the weather is foul, why are you not undertaking travel in a more, er, ‘protective’ (or sensible / logical) means of conveyance? I mean . . . you choose to ride in the wet and, so, you’ll get, um, wet. I, though, will stick to the ‘macht ins Deutschland’ mobile, replete with the gun sight on the bonnet, and embark and disembark from it while under cover. Having myself ridden the odd kilometer in Belgium (in January) I know what wet on a bike is and (perhaps understandably) will always now choose the dryer option. I will not exit that conveyance at a crossing simply because of your poor choices.

I would rather be riding accross which gives me the opportunity to speed up a lot faster when a tool has decided not to see me. And if I do get hit whilst on a bike at least I am higher then the standard front bumper bar, compared to walking. (ex 4wd’s)

I reckon: if cyclists are required to dismount at crossings then drivers should be required to switch off their engine, exit their vehicle and stand by the drivers door until the cyclist has safely traversed the crossing. (especially if the weather is foul)

Keijidosha said :

This seems like one of those laws that is good in theory but impossible to police, especially given the proximity of many cycle paths to convenient getaway routes such as stormwater culverts.

It really should be a stop sign for cyclists so they make sure that the coast is clear before they crossed. I really cant see the safety issue in riding across.

This seems like one of those laws that is good in theory but impossible to police, especially given the proximity of many cycle paths to convenient getaway routes such as stormwater culverts.

Man, break the road rules in a car and you’re public enemy #1, break the road laws on a bicycle and it’s the laws fault.

C’mon people, it’s not hard.

You must be talking about the area adjacent to the stormwater drain where several bike paths converge. There’s no road-marked pedestrian crossing there. Nevertheless, the rule still applies.

Talk about petty.

Today on the way to work (on my bike) I saw a number of cyclists take riscs while crossing the at pedestrian crossings.

All you riders out there, if you are going to ride across pedestrian crossings, at least do it on a green light.

This is utter bs. What a waste of resources.

What do we want? More rules and regulations! When do we want ’em? NOW!

I’m with you futto.

What a farking waste of resources.

With drink driving, ubiquitous mobile usage in cars, speeding, useless cameras, and a death toll caused by cars that is thousands of times greater than that caused by cyclists, they want to have police sit on a curb slapping cyclists on the wrist?

While they’re busy protecting cyclists from themselves, who’s protecting everybody else from f*ckwit drivers?

What a waste of farking resources.

With useless speed cameras, ubiquitous mobile use in cars, speeding, drink driving, and a death toll generated by car drivers that is thousands of times the toll caused by bikes, they want to have cops sitting on a curb giving cyclists a slap on the wrist.

Armed home invasions, crime families being made to feel warm and fuzzy and the cops are blitzing cyclists at a pedestrian crossing.

What’s next? Calling the Special Response for people overstaying a 10 minute parking spot?

And for all the people who say the law is the law, what the hell is wrong with you? Some clown in TAMS puts up a sign..that’s it. You don’t think for yourself anymore? It’s a dumb rule. No one follows it.

I walk, ride a bike, ride a motorbike, rollerblade and own a car. They is no us and them; just US, in my opinion. I pay attention and i’m courteous to other Canberrans. I don’t need a sign to tell me that.

Daily Digest

Want the best Canberra news delivered daily? Every day we package the most popular Riotact stories and send them straight to your inbox. Sign-up now for trusted local news that will never be behind a paywall.

By submitting your email address you are agreeing to Region Group's terms and conditions and privacy policy.