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Corbell to include Russell in light rail application

By Charlotte Harper - 14 October 2015 116

light rail artist impressionThe ACT Government has sent a strong message to the anti-light rail lobby today by announcing it will lodge a development application for the optional extension to Russell together with that for the initial Civic to Gungahlin line within weeks.
A statement from Minister for Capital Metro, Simon Corbell, said the application would cover works required on ACT-managed land along the route should government approve the proposed Russell extension.
ACT managed land along the proposed extension consists of a stretch of London Circuit (excluding Ainslie Place) between Northbourne Avenue and Constitution Avenue, the remainder of the extension will require NCA works approval.
“It is a prudent measure for the government to use the existing work done as part of the analysis of the Russell extension option to prepare a London Circuit DA,” Corbell said.
“It will be lodged in the coming weeks at the same time as the DA for stage one.”
“If the ACT Government does decide to include Russell as part of Capital Metro stage one, this work will ensure construction activity on the City to Russell alignment is not delayed while the required planning approvals are obtained.”
The two shortlisted consortia have submitted separate bids that include the option to extend stage one of the light rail network to Russell.
“When evaluating the bids to select a preferred consortium, the ACT Government will decide whether including the extension to Russell is a strong investment decision,” Corbell said.
“From Russell we would be perfectly placed to extend to other key parts of our city, including the airport, the parliamentary triangle and other destinations south of the lake.
“The proposed extension to Russell has received strong support from the local business industry and ACT community. It is expected to increase patronage of the light rail service by more than 30 percent and would provide a link to the CBD to thousands of employees working within the Constitution Avenue corridor and around the Defence precinct.”

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Corbell to include Russell in light rail application
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dungfungus 10:38 pm 23 Oct 15

puggy said :

dungfungus said :

puggy said :

switch said :

Streeton Drive was “singled” to provide a bike lane for most of its length.

Wrong. The main motivation was to “encourage” cars to stick to the 60km/h speed limit instead of barreling along at 80km/h. It’s a mental thing. The resulting bike lane – and the road side parking around the netball courts – was just opportunistic.

Best spin of the week.

Spin this:

http://www.tams.act.gov.au/about-us/community_engagement/recent_consultations/streeton_drive,_weston_creek/study

Another outstanding success:
Evaluation of the effectiveness of the Implemented Scheme
In early 2015, six months after the implementation of the priority 1 measures, the Chapman, Rivett and Stirling traffic management scheme was evaluated to determine if the measures in place had achieved the stated objectives of reducing travelling speeds and traffic volumes and increasing overall road safety.
The technical evaluation included a ‘before’ and ‘after’ comparison of traffic speed, volume and crashes. Community feedback was also sought regarding the effectiveness of the treatments, and a total of 271 responses were received. The key findings from the overall analysis are outlined below.
Streeton Drive
-Travelling speeds have been reduced by 0.6 km/h on Streeton Drive.

puggy 3:37 pm 23 Oct 15

dungfungus said :

puggy said :

switch said :

Streeton Drive was “singled” to provide a bike lane for most of its length.

Wrong. The main motivation was to “encourage” cars to stick to the 60km/h speed limit instead of barreling along at 80km/h. It’s a mental thing. The resulting bike lane – and the road side parking around the netball courts – was just opportunistic.

Best spin of the week.

Spin this:

http://www.tams.act.gov.au/about-us/community_engagement/recent_consultations/streeton_drive,_weston_creek/study

rubaiyat 2:15 pm 23 Oct 15

OpenYourMind said :

rubaiyat said :

ungruntled said :

“So 25 minutes from Gungahlin to civic, would make it almost an hour to Russel.”
Now that’s such a good goal! An hour to Russsel!

“but there is no doubt that once you open the length of the route from Gungahlin to Russell and then cross the lake to Inner South with clean, quiet regular transport, you are going to get development blossom all along the way.”
Where did you ever get the idea that trams would be clean, quiet & regular! They are heavy, noisy, expensive – financially, socially and environmentally.

“That is going to change Canberra and is what is at the heart of the objections from people who don’t want change. They are already having to pretend extremely hard that the inevitable change is not happening, this is change they can actually try and stop.”
Not from this person. For me it’s a matter of way out of date technology, won’t serve most of the population (only about 10% when all across the city), way too expensive what ever way you look at it (per person kilometer when installed, to initially build, to the environment both in the building & the running).
I would welcome some real change. Look at the new technologies. See what is up & coming. What is exciting. What will actually meet our public transport needs

“Too many people feel that if someone else gets something, that it is being taken away from them, leading to howls of outrage. The dog in the manger!”
Using community money to improve transport is a really good thing to do. I have no issue with that In fact I favour it, even if I don’t personally get to use it.
If somebody was really getting something out of this, you might be right. But no-one is going to win with this. Everyones rates will go up – quite a lot! Few will get good transport (maximum 10% NOT minimum, will be able to utilise it). The rail trip times are significantly longer than express buses. The trees & appeal of Northbourne Ave will have to be sacrificed. Vehicular traffic will be very badly effected – that’s not just evil cars, it is all sorts of people going about their businesses including buses, taxis & delivery services. People who currently take a bus all the way to Civic will need to get a bus to the tram, tram to civic & maybe a bus from there.

There’s also the problem of putting it over the bridges to get it south. There are only 2 ways to do it. One (which is the current plan) is to substitute one vehicular lane in each direction for a tram lane. That’s going to make moving around the city really great – grating! The other option will be to build another bridge or two. That will really skyrocket the costs for something we already cannot afford.

There are other options. We can do better. We must do better.

We just had to pay $30 million for just one road intersection that “we couldn’t afford”.

I am currently in Perth and have observed how the billions the eastern states gave WA for roads because it is so large got all spent on freeways in Perth.

The result is an all pervading deafening traffic noise that extends to the beautiful Kings Park. I got to view the cause of the non stop noise, the freeways below. Particularly the 8-10 lane southern freeway that cuts off the foreshore from the suburbs.

I watched the buses stuck in the creeping traffic and the very regular and well patronised Mandurah line train that flies down the median strip past all the cars with one person in each car, rarely any passengers. For the benefit of RiotACT I caught the train and found it is both comfortable and very very fast. It flies past the traffic, even when it is moving. At 130km/hr it would seem the obvious choice but not to all the drivers on the roads.

It is really a mental short circuit. I spoke to a shop assistant in the Claremont Quarter who is from Adelaide and currently lives in East Perth near where we are staying. She doesn’t mind Perth but said it takes her over 40 minutes to drive to work because of traffic. I asked why she didn’t catch the direct train between the two. She didn’t seem to be aware that was even a possibility then started with the usual excuses. The station is “too far” (a few blocks). The alternative free bus that practically goes past her doorstep was equally unthinkable. Just astounding!

Yes we can do better and we must do better. The problem really is the non-thinking of many people who are like monkeys clinging foolishly to the banana in the trap. Just let go of the delusion of something they are never going to get and get on with their lives.

Haven’t you just elegantly defeated any argument for a tram in Canberra. If Perth, with a much larger population than Canberra and a bunch more traffic problems completely ignores their very expensive high speed train, then why on Earth should Canberra invest in a solution that will not be utilised?

Canberra is not Perth and will not grow to Perth’s size any time in the foreseeable future. It doesn’t take much to improve our bus system, our northside traffic problems and our cycling infrastructure without investing heavily on a single link of a tram system that by your own anecdote is VERY unlikely to be appropriately utilised.

You still haven’t addressed how future technology is going to make the tram look silly. Electric, driverless cars, telecommuting, decentralised employment, share economies etc. Of all the times to be contemplating a tram, now is about the worst. We are on the cusp of a paradigm shift.

Now why do I have question the average intelligence of drivers? They seem so slow on so many things.

The fact trains are extremely well patronised. Unfortunately the better alternative hasn’t sunk in to all the drivers stuck in the traffic. For them being jammed in 5 lanes of slowly shuffling hell is not “normal” cruising along at 100km is what they picture in their heads. That mental disconnect is what we use in advertising to sell the greasy cheeseburger, whilst waving that photoshopped version in their face.

The eternal promises of something better equally applies to drivers. Why did you buy that last very expensive car when there all those brilliant prospects are just around the corner? Or why are we wasting money on freeways and expensive roadworks when we will all be telecommuting or flying to work in hover cars? Or why are you buying that iPhone or 3D TV when we will all be 3D printing all our consumer goods? In fact why are you bothering reading all this time when you will be replaced by an obviously more intelligent robot and will be irrelevant?

dungfungus 2:02 pm 23 Oct 15

OpenYourMind said :

rubaiyat said :

ungruntled said :

“So 25 minutes from Gungahlin to civic, would make it almost an hour to Russel.”
Now that’s such a good goal! An hour to Russsel!

“but there is no doubt that once you open the length of the route from Gungahlin to Russell and then cross the lake to Inner South with clean, quiet regular transport, you are going to get development blossom all along the way.”
Where did you ever get the idea that trams would be clean, quiet & regular! They are heavy, noisy, expensive – financially, socially and environmentally.

“That is going to change Canberra and is what is at the heart of the objections from people who don’t want change. They are already having to pretend extremely hard that the inevitable change is not happening, this is change they can actually try and stop.”
Not from this person. For me it’s a matter of way out of date technology, won’t serve most of the population (only about 10% when all across the city), way too expensive what ever way you look at it (per person kilometer when installed, to initially build, to the environment both in the building & the running).
I would welcome some real change. Look at the new technologies. See what is up & coming. What is exciting. What will actually meet our public transport needs

“Too many people feel that if someone else gets something, that it is being taken away from them, leading to howls of outrage. The dog in the manger!”
Using community money to improve transport is a really good thing to do. I have no issue with that In fact I favour it, even if I don’t personally get to use it.
If somebody was really getting something out of this, you might be right. But no-one is going to win with this. Everyones rates will go up – quite a lot! Few will get good transport (maximum 10% NOT minimum, will be able to utilise it). The rail trip times are significantly longer than express buses. The trees & appeal of Northbourne Ave will have to be sacrificed. Vehicular traffic will be very badly effected – that’s not just evil cars, it is all sorts of people going about their businesses including buses, taxis & delivery services. People who currently take a bus all the way to Civic will need to get a bus to the tram, tram to civic & maybe a bus from there.

There’s also the problem of putting it over the bridges to get it south. There are only 2 ways to do it. One (which is the current plan) is to substitute one vehicular lane in each direction for a tram lane. That’s going to make moving around the city really great – grating! The other option will be to build another bridge or two. That will really skyrocket the costs for something we already cannot afford.

There are other options. We can do better. We must do better.

We just had to pay $30 million for just one road intersection that “we couldn’t afford”.

I am currently in Perth and have observed how the billions the eastern states gave WA for roads because it is so large got all spent on freeways in Perth.

The result is an all pervading deafening traffic noise that extends to the beautiful Kings Park. I got to view the cause of the non stop noise, the freeways below. Particularly the 8-10 lane southern freeway that cuts off the foreshore from the suburbs.

I watched the buses stuck in the creeping traffic and the very regular and well patronised Mandurah line train that flies down the median strip past all the cars with one person in each car, rarely any passengers. For the benefit of RiotACT I caught the train and found it is both comfortable and very very fast. It flies past the traffic, even when it is moving. At 130km/hr it would seem the obvious choice but not to all the drivers on the roads.

It is really a mental short circuit. I spoke to a shop assistant in the Claremont Quarter who is from Adelaide and currently lives in East Perth near where we are staying. She doesn’t mind Perth but said it takes her over 40 minutes to drive to work because of traffic. I asked why she didn’t catch the direct train between the two. She didn’t seem to be aware that was even a possibility then started with the usual excuses. The station is “too far” (a few blocks). The alternative free bus that practically goes past her doorstep was equally unthinkable. Just astounding!

Yes we can do better and we must do better. The problem really is the non-thinking of many people who are like monkeys clinging foolishly to the banana in the trap. Just let go of the delusion of something they are never going to get and get on with their lives.

Haven’t you just elegantly defeated any argument for a tram in Canberra. If Perth, with a much larger population than Canberra and a bunch more traffic problems completely ignores their very expensive high speed train, then why on Earth should Canberra invest in a solution that will not be utilised?

Canberra is not Perth and will not grow to Perth’s size any time in the foreseeable future. It doesn’t take much to improve our bus system, our northside traffic problems and our cycling infrastructure without investing heavily on a single link of a tram system that by your own anecdote is VERY unlikely to be appropriately utilised.

You still haven’t addressed how future technology is going to make the tram look silly. Electric, driverless cars, telecommuting, decentralised employment, share economies etc. Of all the times to be contemplating a tram, now is about the worst. We are on the cusp of a paradigm shift.

How did you travel to Perth?

OpenYourMind 12:22 pm 23 Oct 15

rubaiyat said :

ungruntled said :

“So 25 minutes from Gungahlin to civic, would make it almost an hour to Russel.”
Now that’s such a good goal! An hour to Russsel!

“but there is no doubt that once you open the length of the route from Gungahlin to Russell and then cross the lake to Inner South with clean, quiet regular transport, you are going to get development blossom all along the way.”
Where did you ever get the idea that trams would be clean, quiet & regular! They are heavy, noisy, expensive – financially, socially and environmentally.

“That is going to change Canberra and is what is at the heart of the objections from people who don’t want change. They are already having to pretend extremely hard that the inevitable change is not happening, this is change they can actually try and stop.”
Not from this person. For me it’s a matter of way out of date technology, won’t serve most of the population (only about 10% when all across the city), way too expensive what ever way you look at it (per person kilometer when installed, to initially build, to the environment both in the building & the running).
I would welcome some real change. Look at the new technologies. See what is up & coming. What is exciting. What will actually meet our public transport needs

“Too many people feel that if someone else gets something, that it is being taken away from them, leading to howls of outrage. The dog in the manger!”
Using community money to improve transport is a really good thing to do. I have no issue with that In fact I favour it, even if I don’t personally get to use it.
If somebody was really getting something out of this, you might be right. But no-one is going to win with this. Everyones rates will go up – quite a lot! Few will get good transport (maximum 10% NOT minimum, will be able to utilise it). The rail trip times are significantly longer than express buses. The trees & appeal of Northbourne Ave will have to be sacrificed. Vehicular traffic will be very badly effected – that’s not just evil cars, it is all sorts of people going about their businesses including buses, taxis & delivery services. People who currently take a bus all the way to Civic will need to get a bus to the tram, tram to civic & maybe a bus from there.

There’s also the problem of putting it over the bridges to get it south. There are only 2 ways to do it. One (which is the current plan) is to substitute one vehicular lane in each direction for a tram lane. That’s going to make moving around the city really great – grating! The other option will be to build another bridge or two. That will really skyrocket the costs for something we already cannot afford.

There are other options. We can do better. We must do better.

We just had to pay $30 million for just one road intersection that “we couldn’t afford”.

I am currently in Perth and have observed how the billions the eastern states gave WA for roads because it is so large got all spent on freeways in Perth.

The result is an all pervading deafening traffic noise that extends to the beautiful Kings Park. I got to view the cause of the non stop noise, the freeways below. Particularly the 8-10 lane southern freeway that cuts off the foreshore from the suburbs.

I watched the buses stuck in the creeping traffic and the very regular and well patronised Mandurah line train that flies down the median strip past all the cars with one person in each car, rarely any passengers. For the benefit of RiotACT I caught the train and found it is both comfortable and very very fast. It flies past the traffic, even when it is moving. At 130km/hr it would seem the obvious choice but not to all the drivers on the roads.

It is really a mental short circuit. I spoke to a shop assistant in the Claremont Quarter who is from Adelaide and currently lives in East Perth near where we are staying. She doesn’t mind Perth but said it takes her over 40 minutes to drive to work because of traffic. I asked why she didn’t catch the direct train between the two. She didn’t seem to be aware that was even a possibility then started with the usual excuses. The station is “too far” (a few blocks). The alternative free bus that practically goes past her doorstep was equally unthinkable. Just astounding!

Yes we can do better and we must do better. The problem really is the non-thinking of many people who are like monkeys clinging foolishly to the banana in the trap. Just let go of the delusion of something they are never going to get and get on with their lives.

Haven’t you just elegantly defeated any argument for a tram in Canberra. If Perth, with a much larger population than Canberra and a bunch more traffic problems completely ignores their very expensive high speed train, then why on Earth should Canberra invest in a solution that will not be utilised?

Canberra is not Perth and will not grow to Perth’s size any time in the foreseeable future. It doesn’t take much to improve our bus system, our northside traffic problems and our cycling infrastructure without investing heavily on a single link of a tram system that by your own anecdote is VERY unlikely to be appropriately utilised.

You still haven’t addressed how future technology is going to make the tram look silly. Electric, driverless cars, telecommuting, decentralised employment, share economies etc. Of all the times to be contemplating a tram, now is about the worst. We are on the cusp of a paradigm shift.

dungfungus 12:20 pm 23 Oct 15

puggy said :

switch said :

Streeton Drive was “singled” to provide a bike lane for most of its length.

Wrong. The main motivation was to “encourage” cars to stick to the 60km/h speed limit instead of barreling along at 80km/h. It’s a mental thing. The resulting bike lane – and the road side parking around the netball courts – was just opportunistic.

Best spin of the week.

rubaiyat 12:13 pm 23 Oct 15

Got my first night’s decent sleep after buying ear plugs to keep the tradfic noise down to a tolerable level.

rubaiyat 11:18 am 23 Oct 15

ungruntled said :

“So 25 minutes from Gungahlin to civic, would make it almost an hour to Russel.”
Now that’s such a good goal! An hour to Russsel!

“but there is no doubt that once you open the length of the route from Gungahlin to Russell and then cross the lake to Inner South with clean, quiet regular transport, you are going to get development blossom all along the way.”
Where did you ever get the idea that trams would be clean, quiet & regular! They are heavy, noisy, expensive – financially, socially and environmentally.

“That is going to change Canberra and is what is at the heart of the objections from people who don’t want change. They are already having to pretend extremely hard that the inevitable change is not happening, this is change they can actually try and stop.”
Not from this person. For me it’s a matter of way out of date technology, won’t serve most of the population (only about 10% when all across the city), way too expensive what ever way you look at it (per person kilometer when installed, to initially build, to the environment both in the building & the running).
I would welcome some real change. Look at the new technologies. See what is up & coming. What is exciting. What will actually meet our public transport needs

“Too many people feel that if someone else gets something, that it is being taken away from them, leading to howls of outrage. The dog in the manger!”
Using community money to improve transport is a really good thing to do. I have no issue with that In fact I favour it, even if I don’t personally get to use it.
If somebody was really getting something out of this, you might be right. But no-one is going to win with this. Everyones rates will go up – quite a lot! Few will get good transport (maximum 10% NOT minimum, will be able to utilise it). The rail trip times are significantly longer than express buses. The trees & appeal of Northbourne Ave will have to be sacrificed. Vehicular traffic will be very badly effected – that’s not just evil cars, it is all sorts of people going about their businesses including buses, taxis & delivery services. People who currently take a bus all the way to Civic will need to get a bus to the tram, tram to civic & maybe a bus from there.

There’s also the problem of putting it over the bridges to get it south. There are only 2 ways to do it. One (which is the current plan) is to substitute one vehicular lane in each direction for a tram lane. That’s going to make moving around the city really great – grating! The other option will be to build another bridge or two. That will really skyrocket the costs for something we already cannot afford.

There are other options. We can do better. We must do better.

We just had to pay $30 million for just one road intersection that “we couldn’t afford”.

I am currently in Perth and have observed how the billions the eastern states gave WA for roads because it is so large got all spent on freeways in Perth.

The result is an all pervading deafening traffic noise that extends to the beautiful Kings Park. I got to view the cause of the non stop noise, the freeways below. Particularly the 8-10 lane southern freeway that cuts off the foreshore from the suburbs.

I watched the buses stuck in the creeping traffic and the very regular and well patronised Mandurah line train that flies down the median strip past all the cars with one person in each car, rarely any passengers. For the benefit of RiotACT I caught the train and found it is both comfortable and very very fast. It flies past the traffic, even when it is moving. At 130km/hr it would seem the obvious choice but not to all the drivers on the roads.

It is really a mental short circuit. I spoke to a shop assistant in the Claremont Quarter who is from Adelaide and currently lives in East Perth near where we are staying. She doesn’t mind Perth but said it takes her over 40 minutes to drive to work because of traffic. I asked why she didn’t catch the direct train between the two. She didn’t seem to be aware that was even a possibility then started with the usual excuses. The station is “too far” (a few blocks). The alternative free bus that practically goes past her doorstep was equally unthinkable. Just astounding!

Yes we can do better and we must do better. The problem really is the non-thinking of many people who are like monkeys clinging foolishly to the banana in the trap. Just let go of the delusion of something they are never going to get and get on with their lives.

JC 10:47 am 23 Oct 15

Maya123 said :

dungfungus said :

Maya123 said :

ungruntled said :

“So 25 minutes from Gungahlin to civic, would make it almost an hour to Russel.”
Now that’s such a good goal! An hour to Russsel!

“but there is no doubt that once you open the length of the route from Gungahlin to Russell and then cross the lake to Inner South with clean, quiet regular transport, you are going to get development blossom all along the way.”
Where did you ever get the idea that trams would be clean, quiet & regular! They are heavy, noisy, expensive – financially, socially and environmentally.

“That is going to change Canberra and is what is at the heart of the objections from people who don’t want change. They are already having to pretend extremely hard that the inevitable change is not happening, this is change they can actually try and stop.”
Not from this person. For me it’s a matter of way out of date technology, won’t serve most of the population (only about 10% when all across the city), way too expensive what ever way you look at it (per person kilometer when installed, to initially build, to the environment both in the building & the running).
I would welcome some real change. Look at the new technologies. See what is up & coming. What is exciting. What will actually meet our public transport needs

“Too many people feel that if someone else gets something, that it is being taken away from them, leading to howls of outrage. The dog in the manger!”
Using community money to improve transport is a really good thing to do. I have no issue with that In fact I favour it, even if I don’t personally get to use it.
If somebody was really getting something out of this, you might be right. But no-one is going to win with this. Everyones rates will go up – quite a lot! Few will get good transport (maximum 10% NOT minimum, will be able to utilise it). The rail trip times are significantly longer than express buses. The trees & appeal of Northbourne Ave will have to be sacrificed. Vehicular traffic will be very badly effected – that’s not just evil cars, it is all sorts of people going about their businesses including buses, taxis & delivery services. People who currently take a bus all the way to Civic will need to get a bus to the tram, tram to civic & maybe a bus from there.

There’s also the problem of putting it over the bridges to get it south. There are only 2 ways to do it. One (which is the current plan) is to substitute one vehicular lane in each direction for a tram lane. That’s going to make moving around the city really great – grating! The other option will be to build another bridge or two. That will really skyrocket the costs for something we already cannot afford.

There are other options. We can do better. We must do better.

“The rail trip times are significantly longer than express buses.”

It seems that you have never been caught in a bus in heavy, banked up traffic in peak hour, attempting to get across Commonwealth Bridge. The weakness with buses, is that they share the road with other road traffic. Unless they are given a lane of the road for their exclusive use, all the way, they will be stopped by heavy traffic. Imagine the uproar here if that was done. Say, a lane given to buses down Northbourne Avenue and other traffic forced into two lanes!
” Imagine the uproar here if that was done. Say, a lane given to buses down Northbourne Avenue and other traffic forced into two lanes!”
Similar things been done in Canberra already to create lanes for the exclusive use of cyclists.

I am unaware of any whole car lane that has been taken from cars and changed into a lane for people to cycle on. Please enlighten me where this has happened. Especially for the whole length of a road, as per what I wrote.

You didn’t mention whole length, you said “Say, a lane given to buses down Northbourne Avenue” Maybe you infeered it but didn’t read it that way.

But can add to the list Kingsford Smith Drive between Belconnen Way and Southern Cross Drive went from 3 to 2 lanes to make way for a cycle lane. Though in this case wasn’t a bad move as it was a narrow 3 lanes and didn’t really need it and it may have been other factors (such as the unusually narrow lanes for Canberra) that lead to the narrowing, but the bike lane went in at the same time.

Someone mentioned Streeton Drive, for one it is still very much dual lane and where it has been converted to single lane it was to improve safety of vehicles turning into/out of Mulley Street and Namatjira Drive by giving them they our turnout lanes on Streeton Drive. There is a few places around Canberra where this has been done.

And of course Northborne Ave had its lanes narrowed to make way for a bike lane, but yeah bit different to loosing a lane.

puggy 10:43 am 23 Oct 15

switch said :

Streeton Drive was “singled” to provide a bike lane for most of its length.

Wrong. The main motivation was to “encourage” cars to stick to the 60km/h speed limit instead of barreling along at 80km/h. It’s a mental thing. The resulting bike lane – and the road side parking around the netball courts – was just opportunistic.

dungfungus 10:14 am 23 Oct 15

switch said :

Maya123 said :

Please enlighten me where this has happened. Especially for the whole length of a road, as per what I wrote.

Streeton Drive was “singled” to provide a bike lane for most of its length. Another road I was on yesterday was obviously two lanes in the past (sorry, don’t know the road’s name) and is not now. And I’m not impressed with them taking a lane from Adelaide Ave as it swings around Capital Hill where Canberra Ave merges with it to provide a bike lane I’ve never seen a bike on. Makes it a particularly dangerous intersection nowadays, given how polite Canberra drivers are at merging. The three lanes there was much safer.

They were two examples I would have quoted and don’t forget how the roadway over Scrivener Dam wall was narrowed for a cycleway, as was indeed Northbourne Avenue.

Postalgeek 9:56 am 23 Oct 15

Maya123 said :

Similar things been done in Canberra already to create lanes for the exclusive use of cyclists.

I am unaware of any whole car lane that has been taken from cars and changed into a lane for people to cycle on. Please enlighten me where this has happened. Especially for the whole length of a road, as per what I wrote.

Captain Cook and Jerrabomberra Ave are two examples, although both are only in one direction.

switch 9:21 am 23 Oct 15

Maya123 said :

Please enlighten me where this has happened. Especially for the whole length of a road, as per what I wrote.

Streeton Drive was “singled” to provide a bike lane for most of its length. Another road I was on yesterday was obviously two lanes in the past (sorry, don’t know the road’s name) and is not now. And I’m not impressed with them taking a lane from Adelaide Ave as it swings around Capital Hill where Canberra Ave merges with it to provide a bike lane I’ve never seen a bike on. Makes it a particularly dangerous intersection nowadays, given how polite Canberra drivers are at merging. The three lanes there was much safer.

Maya123 8:43 am 23 Oct 15

dungfungus said :

Maya123 said :

ungruntled said :

“So 25 minutes from Gungahlin to civic, would make it almost an hour to Russel.”
Now that’s such a good goal! An hour to Russsel!

“but there is no doubt that once you open the length of the route from Gungahlin to Russell and then cross the lake to Inner South with clean, quiet regular transport, you are going to get development blossom all along the way.”
Where did you ever get the idea that trams would be clean, quiet & regular! They are heavy, noisy, expensive – financially, socially and environmentally.

“That is going to change Canberra and is what is at the heart of the objections from people who don’t want change. They are already having to pretend extremely hard that the inevitable change is not happening, this is change they can actually try and stop.”
Not from this person. For me it’s a matter of way out of date technology, won’t serve most of the population (only about 10% when all across the city), way too expensive what ever way you look at it (per person kilometer when installed, to initially build, to the environment both in the building & the running).
I would welcome some real change. Look at the new technologies. See what is up & coming. What is exciting. What will actually meet our public transport needs

“Too many people feel that if someone else gets something, that it is being taken away from them, leading to howls of outrage. The dog in the manger!”
Using community money to improve transport is a really good thing to do. I have no issue with that In fact I favour it, even if I don’t personally get to use it.
If somebody was really getting something out of this, you might be right. But no-one is going to win with this. Everyones rates will go up – quite a lot! Few will get good transport (maximum 10% NOT minimum, will be able to utilise it). The rail trip times are significantly longer than express buses. The trees & appeal of Northbourne Ave will have to be sacrificed. Vehicular traffic will be very badly effected – that’s not just evil cars, it is all sorts of people going about their businesses including buses, taxis & delivery services. People who currently take a bus all the way to Civic will need to get a bus to the tram, tram to civic & maybe a bus from there.

There’s also the problem of putting it over the bridges to get it south. There are only 2 ways to do it. One (which is the current plan) is to substitute one vehicular lane in each direction for a tram lane. That’s going to make moving around the city really great – grating! The other option will be to build another bridge or two. That will really skyrocket the costs for something we already cannot afford.

There are other options. We can do better. We must do better.

“The rail trip times are significantly longer than express buses.”

It seems that you have never been caught in a bus in heavy, banked up traffic in peak hour, attempting to get across Commonwealth Bridge. The weakness with buses, is that they share the road with other road traffic. Unless they are given a lane of the road for their exclusive use, all the way, they will be stopped by heavy traffic. Imagine the uproar here if that was done. Say, a lane given to buses down Northbourne Avenue and other traffic forced into two lanes!
” Imagine the uproar here if that was done. Say, a lane given to buses down Northbourne Avenue and other traffic forced into two lanes!”
Similar things been done in Canberra already to create lanes for the exclusive use of cyclists.

I am unaware of any whole car lane that has been taken from cars and changed into a lane for people to cycle on. Please enlighten me where this has happened. Especially for the whole length of a road, as per what I wrote.

dungfungus 7:30 am 23 Oct 15

Maya123 said :

ungruntled said :

“So 25 minutes from Gungahlin to civic, would make it almost an hour to Russel.”
Now that’s such a good goal! An hour to Russsel!

“but there is no doubt that once you open the length of the route from Gungahlin to Russell and then cross the lake to Inner South with clean, quiet regular transport, you are going to get development blossom all along the way.”
Where did you ever get the idea that trams would be clean, quiet & regular! They are heavy, noisy, expensive – financially, socially and environmentally.

“That is going to change Canberra and is what is at the heart of the objections from people who don’t want change. They are already having to pretend extremely hard that the inevitable change is not happening, this is change they can actually try and stop.”
Not from this person. For me it’s a matter of way out of date technology, won’t serve most of the population (only about 10% when all across the city), way too expensive what ever way you look at it (per person kilometer when installed, to initially build, to the environment both in the building & the running).
I would welcome some real change. Look at the new technologies. See what is up & coming. What is exciting. What will actually meet our public transport needs

“Too many people feel that if someone else gets something, that it is being taken away from them, leading to howls of outrage. The dog in the manger!”
Using community money to improve transport is a really good thing to do. I have no issue with that In fact I favour it, even if I don’t personally get to use it.
If somebody was really getting something out of this, you might be right. But no-one is going to win with this. Everyones rates will go up – quite a lot! Few will get good transport (maximum 10% NOT minimum, will be able to utilise it). The rail trip times are significantly longer than express buses. The trees & appeal of Northbourne Ave will have to be sacrificed. Vehicular traffic will be very badly effected – that’s not just evil cars, it is all sorts of people going about their businesses including buses, taxis & delivery services. People who currently take a bus all the way to Civic will need to get a bus to the tram, tram to civic & maybe a bus from there.

There’s also the problem of putting it over the bridges to get it south. There are only 2 ways to do it. One (which is the current plan) is to substitute one vehicular lane in each direction for a tram lane. That’s going to make moving around the city really great – grating! The other option will be to build another bridge or two. That will really skyrocket the costs for something we already cannot afford.

There are other options. We can do better. We must do better.

“The rail trip times are significantly longer than express buses.”

It seems that you have never been caught in a bus in heavy, banked up traffic in peak hour, attempting to get across Commonwealth Bridge. The weakness with buses, is that they share the road with other road traffic. Unless they are given a lane of the road for their exclusive use, all the way, they will be stopped by heavy traffic. Imagine the uproar here if that was done. Say, a lane given to buses down Northbourne Avenue and other traffic forced into two lanes!
” Imagine the uproar here if that was done. Say, a lane given to buses down Northbourne Avenue and other traffic forced into two lanes!”
Similar things been done in Canberra already to create lanes for the exclusive use of cyclists.

6

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