6 March 2012

Cotter Dam expanders boned

| johnboy
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cotter dam

The ABC brings word that ACTEW have told the 100 odd day workers on the Cotter Dam Expansion their services are no longer required. On top of that 120 permanents aren’t getting paid past Thursday:

ACTEW believes it could be three months before the clean up is finished and construction work restarts at the site.

The Cotter Dam expansion project was due to be finished in August, but is now expected to be completed by the end of the year.

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Sturmovik said :

dvaey said :

Paying the workers 1m per week for 3 months would work out to about 12mil.. when compared to the initial cost of 363mil, and a possible blowout upto 150mil, spending 12mil to retain your trained/skilled workforce doesnt seem like a stupid idea.

Its been reported that each day of down tools is costing them $250k, or over $22m for three months.

Intial cost was $120m, blownout to $363m, and now $500m?

and who will be paying this $500m? I guess the same ACT residents who pay the flood levy for the QLD and Vic Floods.

dvaey said :

Paying the workers 1m per week for 3 months would work out to about 12mil.. when compared to the initial cost of 363mil, and a possible blowout upto 150mil, spending 12mil to retain your trained/skilled workforce doesnt seem like a stupid idea.

Its been reported that each day of down tools is costing them $250k, or over $22m for three months.

Intial cost was $120m, blownout to $363m, and now $500m?

Paying the workers 1m per week for 3 months would work out to about 12mil.. when compared to the initial cost of 363mil, and a possible blowout upto 150mil, spending 12mil to retain your trained/skilled workforce doesnt seem like a stupid idea.

Welkin,
A 1:100 year event doesn’t mean the biggest rainfall in 100 years, its the average recurrence.

On the 2nd March at RiotACT – Mark Sullivan said the flood was a “…one in one hundred year event…”
Thar she blows! New Cotter Dam overspilled
http://the-riotact.com/thar-she-blows-new-cotter-dam-overspilled/66746
UPDATE 02/03/12 09:31: This in from ACTEW supremo Mark Sullivan:
MarkS 2012/03/02 at 8:21 am

This morning observations are that the dam structure is sound. Heavy machinery has remained safe and cranes are fine. Have lost some forms and scaffolding and some light equipment. Biggest concern is the washing out of earthwork on the downstream side (looking at damcam it is on the left abutment or the right hand side looking at the dam). Possibly be a week before we get back on the dam and looks like a three week clean up. Flood is a one in one hundred year event so top marks to the engineers. Now we wait till tomorrows renewed assault.

Then in the Canberra Times Monday 5 March he is quoted – “We’ve had two 100-year floods in three days.”
http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-news/jobs-to-be-cut-back-as-cotter-dam-work-stops-20120304-1ubep.html

I do not know what understanding of rainfall history ACTEW relies upon for these statements. I do know that in our relatively remote mountain regions rain data is patchy in time and space. But even with my meagre resources I can learn that in March 1950 BRINDABELLA STATION (070184) recorded 632mm – FAIRLIGHT STATION (070032 432mm and WEE JASPER STATE FOREST 73049 450mm.
So I am just not sure why anybody is talking about 100 year this or two by 100 year that.

Before leaving can I just roll this in from left field re the ACTEWAGL joint venture. I understand it was set in place by the last Liberal Govt.
I wonder why Labor left it standing ?
I am a bit at a loss to see how ACT consumers could gain by such an uncompetitive pairing.
Why would the ACT Govt owned ACTEW not want to retain the freedom to source electricity & gas from the most price competitive sources ?
With our recent supposedly competitive NEM – plus skyrocketing energy bills – I would have thought this is even more imperative.
So I ask, why not a D-I-V-O-R-C-E for ACTEW and AGL ?

JessP said :

Err when you are a Contractor you generally get paid a premium because you are not a permanent employee……that goes with the territory. Most contractors seem happy to make this choice – that is to take more money. They also have to accept the risk.

Suck it up. (And the water whilst you are at it).

Yep, just like a Farmer. Difference is that when a Farmer has a really good year he doesn’t go upgrading the boat, the house, the Clubsport or the Harley. He put’s it away knowing that next year he might have 90% of his crops wiped out by flood or the next 4 years might be in drought and he’ll barely scrape by.
No sympathy here for people who have overcapitalized or spent frivolously. Can’t expect to be paid for work you can’t do.

Henry82 said :

So on a tight budget, how much rain to you prepare for? a once in 20 year storm? 50 year storm? 200 year storm?

Independent probability is a funny thing that most people can’t grasp, and calling them “one in X year” events is quite unrepresentative and just leads to all kinds of trouble if people accept them as truth.
(EG: The regularly-mentioned “One in 100 year flood event” has a 64% chance of happening once or more in any 100 year period. You might get lucky and not have one, but if in the 99th straight year one hasn’t happened it’s not a certainty next year…)

Risks you’re talking about of an annual 5%, 2%, and 0.5% flood (one in 20, one in 50, and one in 200), correspond to a chance of happening once or more during any five year period of 22.6%, 9.6%, and 2.4% respectively.
(Assuming I remember my high school maths classes correctly…)

welkin31 said :

You can hear Mark Sullivan intervied by Ross Solly on the 7.30 Report last Friday;
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-03-11/cotter-dam/3882202
Questions about cost over-runs.
Solly tried to float the idea of a $500mill final cost, no luck at getting MS to agree with that.
MS ventures an interesting opinion that the aspects of water admin now included in ACTEWAGL could be all returned to ACTEW.

Henry82 said :

Sturmovik said :

My solution would have been to build the diversion pipes bigger to begin with. I imagine if they were twice as big water would have never overflowed past the old cotter dam and over the new one.

That’s the benefit on hindsight.

So on a tight budget, how much rain to you prepare for? a once in 20 year storm? 50 year storm? 200 year storm?

Plan for the worst, hope for the best…

Original budget was $120m, now $500m isnt out of the question.

You can hear Mark Sullivan intervied by Ross Solly on the 7.30 Report last Friday;
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-03-11/cotter-dam/3882202
Questions about cost over-runs.
Solly tried to float the idea of a $500mill final cost, no luck at getting MS to agree with that.
MS ventures an interesting opinion that the aspects of water admin now included in ACTEWAGL could be all returned to ACTEW.

Sturmovik said :

My solution would have been to build the diversion pipes bigger to begin with. I imagine if they were twice as big water would have never overflowed past the old cotter dam and over the new one.

That’s the benefit on hindsight.

So on a tight budget, how much rain to you prepare for? a once in 20 year storm? 50 year storm? 200 year storm?

Thoroughly Smashed said :

dungfungus said :

Sturmovik said :

dungfungus said :

If Actew need to lower the level of the dam quicker why don’t they use syphons simply run over the top of the wall? This is a tried and proven method of moving water (emptying water beds, irrigating cotton etc.) and it uses no energy after priming. Pipes and hoses of any thickness can be used. The Greens would approve. Perhaps it is not hi-tech enough though so Actew will probably bring in expensive diesel pumps.

LOLs
You realise how big of a pipe you’d need? The dam already has two 2.5m diameter diversion pipes around the dam that was supposed to be big enough to flow excess water around the site.
Obviously they never planned for higher than average rainfall

I didn’t say one syphon; I said syphons and if 6 x 50cm metre pipes were installed as syphons the existing capacity of the diversion pipes would be incresed over 50% immediately. BTW, I didn’t hear what your solution was.

Two 2.5m dia pipes have a total cross-section of 9.8m²
Six 0.5m dia pipes have a total cross-section of 1.2m²

Whoops.

My solution would have been to build the diversion pipes bigger to begin with. I imagine if they were twice as big water would have never overflowed past the old cotter dam and over the new one.

Its amazing how soon people forget how much it can rain.

As for now, all they can do is wait for the water to drop, then dig out all the debris.

I think the Cotter dam project was already $250m overbudget, I wonder how far this will take it?

Thoroughly Smashed11:10 am 12 Mar 12

dungfungus said :

Sturmovik said :

dungfungus said :

If Actew need to lower the level of the dam quicker why don’t they use syphons simply run over the top of the wall? This is a tried and proven method of moving water (emptying water beds, irrigating cotton etc.) and it uses no energy after priming. Pipes and hoses of any thickness can be used. The Greens would approve. Perhaps it is not hi-tech enough though so Actew will probably bring in expensive diesel pumps.

LOLs
You realise how big of a pipe you’d need? The dam already has two 2.5m diameter diversion pipes around the dam that was supposed to be big enough to flow excess water around the site.
Obviously they never planned for higher than average rainfall

I didn’t say one syphon; I said syphons and if 6 x 50cm metre pipes were installed as syphons the existing capacity of the diversion pipes would be incresed over 50% immediately. BTW, I didn’t hear what your solution was.

Two 2.5m dia pipes have a total cross-section of 9.8m²
Six 0.5m dia pipes have a total cross-section of 1.2m²

Whoops.

I notice it has basically stopped overflowing now:
http://www.actew.com.au/Our%20Projects/Enlarged%20Cotter%20Dam/DamCam.aspx
Probably lots of cleaning up to do! I also notice the scaffold steps that were on the front wall are now missing, and presumably in the pond at the bottom.

It would be good to get some pics of the top deck to compare with some of the ‘before’ ones posted by Mark S on his twitter feed…
http://twitter.com/#!/Sullivan_ACTEW/status/175089298553581568/photo/1/large

wildturkeycanoe said :

We should be being thanked by the city of Wagga Wagga for the Cotter Dam project. Imagine if all that extra water being held back at the moment ended up down the Murrumbidgeee river, how close it would have put the water over their levy bank. Thankfully Blowering Dam was also at a low level or its runoff would have certainly tipped the scales.
With the higher level of the dam and the nature of the shoreline, ie. an abundance of trees and debris, has anyone witnessed the type of material being washed over the wall and into the Cotter river? I can imagine it’d be like the Queanbeyan low level crossing in the last flood, or does it all get stuck at the top of the wall?

Apparently there is quite a bit of debris between the old cotter dam, and the half finished one.

Sturmovik said :

dungfungus said :

If Actew need to lower the level of the dam quicker why don’t they use syphons simply run over the top of the wall? This is a tried and proven method of moving water (emptying water beds, irrigating cotton etc.) and it uses no energy after priming. Pipes and hoses of any thickness can be used. The Greens would approve. Perhaps it is not hi-tech enough though so Actew will probably bring in expensive diesel pumps.

LOLs
You realise how big of a pipe you’d need? The dam already has two 2.5m diameter diversion pipes around the dam that was supposed to be big enough to flow excess water around the site.
Obviously they never planned for higher than average rainfall

I didn’t say one syphon; I said syphons and if 6 x 50cm metre pipes were installed as syphons the existing capacity of the diversion pipes would be incresed over 50% immediately. BTW, I didn’t hear what your solution was.

wildturkeycanoe6:27 am 12 Mar 12

We should be being thanked by the city of Wagga Wagga for the Cotter Dam project. Imagine if all that extra water being held back at the moment ended up down the Murrumbidgeee river, how close it would have put the water over their levy bank. Thankfully Blowering Dam was also at a low level or its runoff would have certainly tipped the scales.
With the higher level of the dam and the nature of the shoreline, ie. an abundance of trees and debris, has anyone witnessed the type of material being washed over the wall and into the Cotter river? I can imagine it’d be like the Queanbeyan low level crossing in the last flood, or does it all get stuck at the top of the wall?

dungfungus said :

If Actew need to lower the level of the dam quicker why don’t they use syphons simply run over the top of the wall? This is a tried and proven method of moving water (emptying water beds, irrigating cotton etc.) and it uses no energy after priming. Pipes and hoses of any thickness can be used. The Greens would approve. Perhaps it is not hi-tech enough though so Actew will probably bring in expensive diesel pumps.

LOLs
You realise how big of a pipe you’d need? The dam already has two 2.5m diameter diversion pipes around the dam that was supposed to be big enough to flow excess water around the site.
Obviously they never planned for higher than average rainfall

Okay, if the GDE took seven years to finish, how long is this monster going to take???

Obviously, a lot of the more experienced contractors who have now lost their jobs are not going to sit at home (unpaid) waiting until the clean up has been completed, so no doubt they will not stay in the ACT, and find work elsewhere – so who takes their places once work on the Cotter Dam can commence again?

Pity they can’t all be called up for jury duty for the next three months – as that’d keep them on the books!

If Actew need to lower the level of the dam quicker why don’t they use syphons simply run over the top of the wall? This is a tried and proven method of moving water (emptying water beds, irrigating cotton etc.) and it uses no energy after priming. Pipes and hoses of any thickness can be used. The Greens would approve. Perhaps it is not hi-tech enough though so Actew will probably bring in expensive diesel pumps.

colourful sydney racing identity11:47 am 08 Mar 12

G-Fresh said :

HenryBG said :

G-Fresh said :

HenryBG said :

Is this “Workchoices” in action?

Hopefully that’s another 220 people educated on why they shouldn’ be voting for Gary Humphries next year.

You’re an absolute moron.

Actually, I blame Tony Abbott…

Yes. And as long as he remains a contender…

a/ He will continue to personally be the chief cause of each election loss (that’s 2 elections so far – and despite what the media tell us, I really can’t see how he could possibly win the next one, having successfully alienated every segment of the community bar the cranky right-wing pensioners and News Limited).
and
b/ The threat of more of the Workchoices abomination still hangs over us

Howard couldn’t have said a truer word when he stated “Australians have never had it so good” prior to the 2007 election. Workchoices was for the greater good, was just unpopular. Was particularly advantageous for constuction workers on incentive based renumeration. That excludes the lazy laggards who populate the majority of the CFMEU though.

Let’s talk about 2007. How about the union funded anti LPA ad with a woman on it complaining that she mightn’t have work security – when she is standing in front of a brand new fancy stainless steel fridge in a fully renovated kitchen! Get a real problem!

If you think Workchoices was good, you simply do not understand it.

dungfungus said :

Another little known fact is that on bank loan documents there are some nasty little clauses which give the bank the right to demand repayment in full at any time for no reason and “sweep” all credit balances held in accounts in the borrowers name and apply them to arrears or debts.

Good thing I hold no other accounts with he bank who my mortgage is with then?

Hey HenryBG

http://www.smh.com.au/act-news/100-government-jobs-to-be-cut-20120308-1ull7.html

… can’t blame the opposition for the loss of these 100 Canberra jobs.

harvyk1 said :

wildturkeycanoe said :

Sorry about the income protection thing, I thought there was a cover for unemployment. I was probably thinking about the protection you get on your mortgage if you become unemployed, yet that won’t pay the rest of the bills. Doh.

Wrong, mortgage insurance doesn’t protect you, it protects the bank if you default. They will then come and recover the money from you. Most people think Lenders Mortgage Insurance is the biggest con out there, and it is one of the only insurances that does not actually protect the insured.

AFAIK there is no insurances out there that will cover the loss of a job. If you are permie you have some security in knowing that you can’t just be fired without good cause, otherwise your entitled to redundancy payments and \ or notice.
If you are contract you have no safety net so to speak, but are paid at a higher rate to compensate for the lack of a safety net (and the lack of a few other things as well)

What you have clarified harvyk1 about “mortgage insurance” is spot on yet 99% of mortgagors believe it protects them. If this was the case the product would be called “mortgagors’ insurance” and there is no such product. It is a con twice because the premiums are paid by the mortgagor yet the mortgagee is the beneficiary in the case of a default and eviction. Also, as you correctly pointed out, the mortgage insurer then has the right to recover the amount they have imdemnified the bank for. Another little known fact is that on bank loan documents there are some nasty little clauses which give the bank the right to demand repayment in full at any time for no reason and “sweep” all credit balances held in accounts in the borrowers name and apply them to arrears or debts.

wildturkeycanoe said :

Sorry about the income protection thing, I thought there was a cover for unemployment. I was probably thinking about the protection you get on your mortgage if you become unemployed, yet that won’t pay the rest of the bills. Doh.

Wrong, mortgage insurance doesn’t protect you, it protects the bank if you default. They will then come and recover the money from you. Most people think Lenders Mortgage Insurance is the biggest con out there, and it is one of the only insurances that does not actually protect the insured.

AFAIK there is no insurances out there that will cover the loss of a job. If you are permie you have some security in knowing that you can’t just be fired without good cause, otherwise your entitled to redundancy payments and \ or notice.
If you are contract you have no safety net so to speak, but are paid at a higher rate to compensate for the lack of a safety net (and the lack of a few other things as well)

wildturkeycanoe7:44 pm 07 Mar 12

Sorry about the income protection thing, I thought there was a cover for unemployment. I was probably thinking about the protection you get on your mortgage if you become unemployed, yet that won’t pay the rest of the bills. Doh.

2604 said :

wildturkeycanoe said :

One term would fix this problem for everybody – Income Protection Insurance.
This is a must for subbies and now even for those on wages, as you can’t just expect the government to pay your mortgage when things turn sour.

Self-insurance is probably a better idea, ie accumulating enough cash to pay expenses for a few months while you look for another job.

Being self-sufficient is frowned upon by unions and our current government. Be careful what you say 2604 or you will end up in Room 101.

wildturkeycanoe said :

One term would fix this problem for everybody – Income Protection Insurance.
This is a must for subbies and now even for those on wages, as you can’t just expect the government to pay your mortgage when things turn sour.

Self-insurance is probably a better idea, ie accumulating enough cash to pay expenses for a few months while you look for another job.

G-Fresh said :

Let’s talk about 2007. How about the union funded anti LPA ad with a woman on it complaining that she mightn’t have work security – when she is standing in front of a brand new fancy stainless steel fridge in a fully renovated kitchen! Get a real problem!

Yeah, how dare people with stainless steel fridges expect job security and fair employment contracts. The cheek of them!

HenryBG said :

Is this “Workchoices” in action?

Hopefully that’s another 220 people educated on why they shouldn’ be voting for Gary Humphries next year.

I’m surprised you actually vote. It’s pretty obvious from the other thread that you think you are far too superior (or too rich) to meet any of your other responsibilites as part of society.

HenryBG said :

G-Fresh said :

HenryBG said :

Is this “Workchoices” in action?

Hopefully that’s another 220 people educated on why they shouldn’ be voting for Gary Humphries next year.

You’re an absolute moron.

Actually, I blame Tony Abbott…

Yes. And as long as he remains a contender…

a/ He will continue to personally be the chief cause of each election loss (that’s 2 elections so far – and despite what the media tell us, I really can’t see how he could possibly win the next one, having successfully alienated every segment of the community bar the cranky right-wing pensioners and News Limited).
and
b/ The threat of more of the Workchoices abomination still hangs over us

Howard couldn’t have said a truer word when he stated “Australians have never had it so good” prior to the 2007 election. Workchoices was for the greater good, was just unpopular. Was particularly advantageous for constuction workers on incentive based renumeration. That excludes the lazy laggards who populate the majority of the CFMEU though.

Let’s talk about 2007. How about the union funded anti LPA ad with a woman on it complaining that she mightn’t have work security – when she is standing in front of a brand new fancy stainless steel fridge in a fully renovated kitchen! Get a real problem!

G-Fresh said :

HenryBG said :

Is this “Workchoices” in action?

Hopefully that’s another 220 people educated on why they shouldn’ be voting for Gary Humphries next year.

You’re an absolute moron.

Actually, I blame Tony Abbott…

Yes. And as long as he remains a contender…

a/ He will continue to personally be the chief cause of each election loss (that’s 2 elections so far – and despite what the media tell us, I really can’t see how he could possibly win the next one, having successfully alienated every segment of the community bar the cranky right-wing pensioners and News Limited).
and
b/ The threat of more of the Workchoices abomination still hangs over us

Plenty of work available fixing pot holes. Doubt they will be unemployed for long if they really want the work.

I think it is ACT water consumers and taxpayers that are going to be “boned” as the Cotter project cost over-runs pile up.
Then there is the pipeline project which also had cost over-runs when I last heard. Anybody know the status of that ? How near completion is it ?

HenryBG said :

Is this “Workchoices” in action?

Hopefully that’s another 220 people educated on why they shouldn’ be voting for Gary Humphries next year.

You’re an absolute moron.

Err when you are a Contractor you generally get paid a premium because you are not a permanent employee……that goes with the territory. Most contractors seem happy to make this choice – that is to take more money. They also have to accept the risk.

Suck it up. (And the water whilst you are at it).

dtc said :

wildturkeycanoe said :

One term would fix this problem for everybody – Income Protection Insurance. This is a must for subbies and now even for those on wages, as you can’t just expect the government to pay your mortgage when things turn sour. .

I’m not sure income protection insurance is what you think it is.

My advice to anyone buying “accident/illness income protection insurance” is to read the fine print very carefully. The usual rider is that for a successfull claim to be made the insured must be so ill that they have to be hospitalized or confined to bed on orders of a MO. You will get nothing for an injury like a broken wrist or sprained ankle. They are a total waste of money.

wildturkeycanoe said :

One term would fix this problem for everybody – Income Protection Insurance. This is a must for subbies and now even for those on wages, as you can’t just expect the government to pay your mortgage when things turn sour. .

I’m not sure income protection insurance is what you think it is.

colourful sydney racing identity9:20 am 07 Mar 12

HenryBG said :

Is this “Workchoices” in action?

Hopefully that’s another 220 people educated on why they shouldn’ be voting for Gary Humphries next year.

What on earth does this have to do with workchoices???

wildturkeycanoe said :

One term would fix this problem for everybody – Income Protection Insurance.
This is a must for subbies and now even for those on wages, as you can’t just expect the government to pay your mortgage when things turn sour.
I feel for these folks but think of the thousands whose livelihoods have just been ruined downstream of the Cotter for the same reason. Wagga, Gundagai and now Griffith have been hit by the same deluge and there are more people looking for next weeks dinner. Big picture people, there is a whole other world out there.

Would you like to explain exactly how income protection insurance would protect these workers? From my understanding IPI only protects you in the event of accident or sickness, not because no one wants your services.

EvanJames said :

We have an insider! Awesome, we’ll get the gossip now. And yeah, smoothoperator’s point is a good one. Hiring newbies, and letting them get up to speed with how to do the job (yes even if qualified etc etc) take a long time. Any recruitment of new staff costs a lot of money. It’s a shame they haven’t got some sort of strategic contingency to keep these people on hand.

I reckon they should buy a lot of buckets, and get them all bailing, lower the water level a bit faster.

You are onto something here EJ.
Remember (yawn) that typical Actew warm and fuzzy, self-promotion TV ad a few years ago with hundreds of people (including the odd sporting celebrity from Actew sponsored teams) tipping blue buckets of water into Googong Dam? Well, they have probably still got the blue buckets so all they need is the people and they could all be filmed bailing out the water upstream from the Cotter wall.
I feel a sequel coming on !!!!!

wildturkeycanoe5:15 am 07 Mar 12

One term would fix this problem for everybody – Income Protection Insurance.
This is a must for subbies and now even for those on wages, as you can’t just expect the government to pay your mortgage when things turn sour.
I feel for these folks but think of the thousands whose livelihoods have just been ruined downstream of the Cotter for the same reason. Wagga, Gundagai and now Griffith have been hit by the same deluge and there are more people looking for next weeks dinner. Big picture people, there is a whole other world out there.

dungfungus said :

thatsnotme said :

I agree that is sucks royally that workers will be losing their jobs because of this, but really, what’s the alternative? Blow out the (already blown out) budget by even more by paying contract staff who can’t do their jobs?

I’m sure many of those complaining about this would be the same people giving it to ACTEW and the government about the budget blowing out even further, so they’re damned if they do, and damned if they don’t. I’m sure there would be plenty of other day laborers who have lost money on construction sites around Canberra recently too – the difference is they’re lucky enough to be on a site that will dry out quickly (once it stops bloody raining at least!), and isn’t covered in mud and debris.

Fingers crossed that those now without work, can find it elsewhere quickly.

Knowing little about the construction industry though, I’m curious… What does the fact that they’ve been forced to let these workers go mean once the project can resume? Will the dam project end up with a workforce of new people lacking experience on the project? Or would the current workers be expecting to shift back to the dam once work there is happening again?

“so they’re damned if they do, and damned if they don’t…..”
Best pun of the week.

lol!

Ian said :

What would people expect as an alternative to laying these people off? Have ACTEW burn $1m a week to have them sitting on their arses for a couple of months?

While I agree with the point you are making Ian, no one seemed to give a s*** when Actew lost over $50 million on their TransACT adventure.

We have an insider! Awesome, we’ll get the gossip now. And yeah, smoothoperator’s point is a good one. Hiring newbies, and letting them get up to speed with how to do the job (yes even if qualified etc etc) take a long time. Any recruitment of new staff costs a lot of money. It’s a shame they haven’t got some sort of strategic contingency to keep these people on hand.

I reckon they should buy a lot of buckets, and get them all bailing, lower the water level a bit faster.

Smoothoperator10:10 pm 06 Mar 12

Ok ok that’s enough of the politics, it’s quite obvious that alot
Of people here have absolutely no idea what there talking about

I-filed said :

Soooo, MarkS would have dedicated quite some of his own work time to this project, yes? Why doesn’t he take a cut in HIS hours?

Genius! Because obviously, after an event like this when everything has gone to shit on a major project, the best move is for the project manager to clock off early each day. That’ll fix everything! Solidarity with the workers and all that, it’s obviously the most important consideration at the moment.

Smoothoperator9:45 pm 06 Mar 12

I have been working at ECD now for neally 3 years, the bullshit goes far deeper than
Any of us could have expected actew as part of the alliance have made some completely
Outrageous discussions in regards to this. Just you wait till I get hold of a desktop computer
As I’m not typing that much on a phone, I’m just one of a tight group of heavy plant operators
Who’s main role is placing the actual
Concrete, it’s taken along time lots of practice and focus to achieve
Big numbers and quality and this is how they treat us
Imagine if we all didn’t go back it would take months and months to even train people to achieve safety quality and productivity of the current crews,
Cheers talk soon

Soooo, MarkS would have dedicated quite some of his own work time to this project, yes? Why doesn’t he take a cut in HIS hours?

So who’s going to clean up the mess? maybe these contractors could? just a thought

Hopefully they dont fire 200 people, hire 200 other people for cleanup once completed have to rehire 200 people to continue damn building.

The rehiring could take months, or this this the plan I wonder? The project is was going to run late anyway, now they can blame the rains and the fact they had t spend months to rehire staff.

Total shame

thatsnotme said :

I agree that is sucks royally that workers will be losing their jobs because of this, but really, what’s the alternative? Blow out the (already blown out) budget by even more by paying contract staff who can’t do their jobs?

I’m sure many of those complaining about this would be the same people giving it to ACTEW and the government about the budget blowing out even further, so they’re damned if they do, and damned if they don’t. I’m sure there would be plenty of other day laborers who have lost money on construction sites around Canberra recently too – the difference is they’re lucky enough to be on a site that will dry out quickly (once it stops bloody raining at least!), and isn’t covered in mud and debris.

Fingers crossed that those now without work, can find it elsewhere quickly.

Knowing little about the construction industry though, I’m curious… What does the fact that they’ve been forced to let these workers go mean once the project can resume? Will the dam project end up with a workforce of new people lacking experience on the project? Or would the current workers be expecting to shift back to the dam once work there is happening again?

“so they’re damned if they do, and damned if they don’t…..”
Best pun of the week.

What would people expect as an alternative to laying these people off? Have ACTEW burn $1m a week to have them sitting on their arses for a couple of months?

I agree that is sucks royally that workers will be losing their jobs because of this, but really, what’s the alternative? Blow out the (already blown out) budget by even more by paying contract staff who can’t do their jobs?

I’m sure many of those complaining about this would be the same people giving it to ACTEW and the government about the budget blowing out even further, so they’re damned if they do, and damned if they don’t. I’m sure there would be plenty of other day laborers who have lost money on construction sites around Canberra recently too – the difference is they’re lucky enough to be on a site that will dry out quickly (once it stops bloody raining at least!), and isn’t covered in mud and debris.

Fingers crossed that those now without work, can find it elsewhere quickly.

Knowing little about the construction industry though, I’m curious… What does the fact that they’ve been forced to let these workers go mean once the project can resume? Will the dam project end up with a workforce of new people lacking experience on the project? Or would the current workers be expecting to shift back to the dam once work there is happening again?

HenryBG said :

Is this “Workchoices” in action?

Yeah, and with any luck John Howard won’t get re-elected as Prime Minister so this new Rudd guy can repeal the Work Choices legislation and get industrial relations back to their 1970s heyday.

People should remember this before they bang on about problems with their public service jobs. (Or their husband’s public service job, in some cases…)

HenryBG said :

Is this “Workchoices” in action?

Hopefully that’s another 220 people educated on why they shouldn’ be voting for Gary Humphries next year.

You are about 4 years behind the times HenryBG. I am glad you mentioned “people educated” because there are also “educated people”. The later group understand how the building business operates. Would you rather have ACT ratepayers underwrite their wages for 3 months? There will be no problem for them anyhow as we have the world’s best treasurer running the economy the envy of the rest of the world with the lowest unemployment rate. The fact that we still have the highest interest rates is surely an oversight.

Henry82 said :

That’s the game you play as a contractor. As for the “permanents” i don’t know what their contract says, so we won’t know.

Exactly,
Contractors have to make hay while the sun shines. Apparently they have been making plenty of hay up until now with employment costs stated at 150 to 200 K per day.

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-news/jobs-to-be-cut-back-as-cotter-dam-work-stops-20120304-1ubep.html

Henry82 said :

That’s the game you play as a contractor. As for the “permanents” i don’t know what their contract says, so we won’t know.

Oh, I see – so there will be fewer people in hard hats and steel-capped boots dining at Ottomans in the coming months?

As much as it sucks for people in that position, contractors are contractors in the knowledge that they are always only a rainy week away from unemployment.

I wonder what the legality is of diving for sunken scaffolding in the Murrumbidgee and selling it back to ACTEW? Do marine laws of salvage apply in rivers?

That’s the game you play as a contractor. As for the “permanents” i don’t know what their contract says, so we won’t know.

Is this “Workchoices” in action?

Hopefully that’s another 220 people educated on why they shouldn’ be voting for Gary Humphries next year.

Ok, I understand how they can let people go if their services are really not required, but not paying employees past a certain day because your project didn’t go to plan… Me thinks Fair Work Australia might have something to say about this in the coming days or weeks.

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