Crackdown on deadly tobacco

I’m only whining because I’m all needy because I haven’t had a ciggie for 2 hours as I’m to pissed to get off my fat arse to go down the shops.

no

I’m taking up smoking again because I like your whining

In one post a Nazi in the next a socialist, make a call. (I know the Nazi’s were called the National Socialist German Workers Party but it is well accepted they were considerably closer to fascists than socialist). I didn’t realise we were fighting socialism in 1945, I thought the capitalist countries and communist countries were battling the fascist countries.

Libertarians argue that individuals should be free to do anything unless it harms others (or otherwise impinges upon their freedom ). Apart from anarchists libertarian political philosophy is really the smallest form of government there is (and generally viewed as right wing). The proposed law in part, attempts to stop smokers harming others.

All laws and regulation can be labelled as social engineering it is a convenient rhetorical device, but lacks the substance to be persuasive. So you’re averse to “social engineering” that attempts to dissuade children from killing themselves and from smokers from harming others?

I can understand your motivation for taking up smoking again, it’s a classic prisoners dilemma/common pool problem, you might as well get sick ASAP so you can use as much of the health dollar as you can before the rest of the smokers/drunks/obese have depleted the health budget entirely.

well fuck me – Binker has just convinced me to take up smoking again, cigars and rollers only though, not nancy filters

fucking social engineers

Thumper, I hope you don’t smoke in front of all those kids you’re coaching in cricket! 🙂

the fight against socialism didnt end in 1945 or 1991 – it continues today everywhere from blogs to polling booths.

you wish to indulge in smoking.

Bingo.

You may contribute thousands a week just like a whole lot of non-smokers who don’t unnecessarily burden the health system, why should smokers intentionally use more of consolidated revenue than non-smokers.

Unfortunately smoking does not kill prior to the age where one can procreate thus evolution does not weed out those who are selfishly smoke.

Parents are not the only arbiters of what children can see or do as evidence by children not being allowed to smoke, drink, watch porn, have sex with their parents, the state effectively loans parents their children on the basis that they will be well cared for and this privilege is retracted if this condition is breached (and the child becomes a ward of the state).

Shotguns (for eg) are legal to but, that doesn’t mean letting them off in your local school, pub or café should be allowed.

Children of smokers have a much higher rate of smoking than children of non-smokers.

Your, heat but no light, diatribe presents as a desperate attempt to justify killing your (and others) kids because you wish to indulge in smoking.

mr binker, as i contribute some thousands a WEEK to consolidated revenue, explain how that is parasitism ?

and quite franky i’d rather society operated under the auspices of ensuring adults can go about their business unhindered by social engineering zealots, than pandering to hand wringing ‘what about the children’ tiny testicled do gooders who want to slow civilisation down to the pace of the slowest, flying in the face of darwinian evolutionary laws.

why mr binker should you decide what my children see or do ? is that not the role of the parent ?

if peopel in society smoke and drink then children should see these truths lest they grow up with some bizarre non-existent utopian disneyfied vision which shatters as soon as they leave the cocoon of the act collective.

when loading your shotgun with a load of unsustainable generalisations about a group you obviously feel superior to, recall that the product is still legal to buy.

unlike the crack youre smoking.

Smoking, along with alcohol use and obesity, create a huge but preventable cost to the health system. Smokers also contribute less to Consolidated Revenue as they die or become infirm (and hence unable to work) prior to the normal retirement age (and in these days of self-funded retirement they save little by dieing before they can receive the OAP). Hence smokers are parasites upon society.

That some off them may have private health insurance is of little impact as insurance will nowhere near cover the costs of treatment for smoking related illness. We all pay the Medicare levy.

Sure tobacco is taxed at a high rate however if the money spent on smokes was saved and a Mercedes Benz was bought instead the tax payed would be of a similar magnitude. Smokers may pay a bit more tax but nowhere near enough to cover the cost of surgery, hospital admission, palliative care etc that they will in the majority of cases one day require.

Passive smoking has health implications; there is substantial and fairly unequivocal support for this proposition.

The proposed ACT legislation appears in some respects to attempt to reduce the effects of passive smoking (especially on children). However, I would suggest that the main purpose (possibly it has not been articulated by the Govt) is to stigmatise smoking in such a way that the temptation for children to start smoking is reduced. Also by not allowing children to see adults smoke while having a trendy latte or a cool beer may reduce the impression that smoking is a sign of maturity etc (given that alcohol and to an extent coffee consumption are seen this way).

Not allowing adults to smoke in areas where children frequent and specifically schools may along with a reduction in passive smoking also reduce the chance that children will see the smoking and model the behaviour of adults whom they respect.

Adults who have been smoking for awhile are probably already going to die from smoking related illness, so although getting long term smokers to cease will have some impact upon the health dollar, preventing children from commencing smoking will have a much larger impact.

Smoking along with other drug use should be seen as a health problem as opposed to a criminal one, however, a degree of regulation in order to decrease the attractiveness of drug use is warranted as well as reducing the direct impact of the drug use on others (ie passive smoking in this case).

Oh and FFS if you don’t vote, don’t whine (you can vote informally as a protest)

I’d also point out that voting is not compulsory. Popping along to your local polling place on election day and getting yourself ticked off the roll, however, is.

And since my local polling place is a primary school with a decent sausage sizzle and cake stall running at every election, I’m happy to keep on going.

Nyssa you can get a ‘silent’ registration on the Electoral Roll. (I”m not sure how, but high profile people do, and also bettered wives etc who want to keep their address private.)
I would still vote – for an independant – just to annoy them.
– I think banning smoking somewhere like the Folk
Festival is the most insane thing I’ve heard in forever. Perhaps she could set up one or two smoke free areas for really keen non-smokers to eat their lunch or whatever. This govt struggles with real issues (the caravan park, the state of hospitals etc) but they love to get involved in the small stuff.

That’s changing Caf, the career politico’s increasingly are just in it for the power as far as I can tell.

“I won’t be voting because they don’t give two shits about us unless it is election time.”

While such cynicism is “cool”, it’s misplaced. All politicians, of all stripes, got into the game because they genuinely believe they have a positive contribution to make to the running of civil society. No-one ever did it for the money – it’s just not that good! (much like teaching, really… 🙂

I don’t think there can actually be a RiotAct Party – I don’t think there’s any particular consensus among us about anything except that some key politicians are foolish at best and mendaciously evil at worst.

Walking away from something and ignoring it is fine if it’s not going to affect you any more. However, politicians are going to affect you whether you decide to engage with them or not. So walking away and saying “well, I’m not going to vote any more” is a pretty useless gesture that changes nothing.

Having said that, voting is a fairly useless gesture that changes very little. So I suppose the difference is whether you want to keep a tiny skerrick of hope in your life or not.

Johnboy, that may be the case but even after putting a post on here re: Ministers not replying, and that said Minister e-mailing Kerces wanting to know if she could talk to me and then re e-mailing her the same e-mail from earlier this year, I am yet to hear nothing.

I don’t think we should have compulsory voting either. I don’t agree that our personal details be made accesible to any Tom, Dick or Harry at the AEC.

I won’t be voting because they don’t give two shits about us unless it is election time.

Ahh OK then. But they wont be able to have a feed under those heaters!!!!!

bloody enormous gas heaters just like you see in al fresco joints all through winter.

sorted.

Anyone knows how the club smoking policy from the end of this year will work? You know, having 25% of something open to the air.

I have seen the Hellenic CLub preparing to knock out a wall. Do I really expect that the patron inside will tolerate being exposed to the cold Canberra air?

Despair is the greatest sin of all Nyssa.

areaman, no I didn’t vote for them – shame about preferences though…

I’ve decided to not vote and just accept it. I’ve voted and nothing has changed so I’ll pay my “fine” and get over it. When someone decent comes along, then I’ll rethink my voting decision.

I await the flames re: not voting in the future.

i do not accept that secondhand smoking even exists let alone is harmful.

define a non problem then demand it be banned.

nyssa76, the question is did you last time? Or more relevantly to your preferences go to the ALP last time and will they not this time?

But, Mr Evil, farting is good for you; smoking isn’t. It should therefore be made compulsory.

Okay, which one of you selfish bloody smokers blew smoke and/or ash on Katy’s baby?

Personally I find farting pretty offensive: can it be banned in the ACT too?

I don’t see any need to ban smoking in outdoor cafes or outdoor playgrounds.
I’m a non smoker.
Is this just a smokescreen for Katy’s dramas with the hospitals (parking, worst waiting times in the country etc.)

We all know that second hand smoking is a problem.

My solution to my own smoking – I don’t smoke near other, nor do I litter my butts.

The Govt won’t ban cigarettes as they attract a lot of tax.

As a smoker, and a teacher previously under Ms. Gallagher, I won’t be voting Labor in the next election.

caf, I didn’t say second hand smoke was harmless, I merely said that exposure to it will not kill you in the short term, and is certainly not the public menace that Gallagher is allegating with her scare mongering.

There are far more sinister polution sources to be worried about besides people puffing the odd cancer stick in public.

Lastly, if second hand cigarette smoke in public is so dangerous and demanding of such drastic measures to erradicate, where is the public outcry or protests outside the Legislative Assembly building to demand action?

So Les, you’ve concluded from your sample size of 1 that secondhand smoke is harmless?

On footyboy’s wavelength, god forbid the time and money expended on all the draconian Government anti-smoking campaigns and policy development should be put into a worthwhile cause such as renewable energy to lessen our ~90% dependence on coal power and fossil fuel burning vehicles.

my complaint form is filled out ready to go to the human rights commissioner, a rather stern looking beson judging from the photo on the website.

I’ll report back on any response.

A new but stinky four wheel drive pulled up outside the cafe as I was savoring the last slurp of my caramel milkshake and the last puff of my cigarette. The vehicle was left idleing,the emissions wafting amongst the diners whilst the driver waited for a passenger pick up. On the back window was a faded smoking kills sticker.

(So long as they sensibly dispose of their ciggy butts, of course!)

Seriously, what is going on in our local Government? This requires a sternly worded email. *points and shakes finger*

If second hand cigarette smoke was such a danger (and a public priority to erradicate) then I would in fact have been dead many years ago. Both my parents are smokers, and I grew up inhaling second hand smoke from my father’s chain smoking habits.

I do not smoke myself, but if I am overly concerned with the level of smoke in a public place then I will leave. I say leave the smokers be.

As a non-smoker who is pissed off about two filthy habits of smokers:

* allowing their smoke to drift all around people who are not smoking

* dropping their butts, packets and cellophane all around the countryside (having done Cleanup Australia for many years, I’ve seen the huge piles of evidence)

I think young Katie is onto something.

The AAP news has just released a story from NZ:

“A Maori politician and self-confessed “anti-smoking nutter” today launched an ambitious campaign to have tobacco banned in New Zealand by 2010.
Maori Party MP Hone Harawira chose World Smokefree Day to unveil a five-pronged plan to make cigarettes illegal six years after the
nation’s pubs and restaurants became smoke-free.
“Tobacco kills 4,500 Kiwis every year. If that was any other product, it would be banned tomorrow,” Harawira said.
“This is about having the courage to throw out the murderers, and take back our future.”

I have found this form on the act human rights office website.

http://www.hro.act.gov.au/gems/ComplaintFormEmailable.doc

If you feel your human rights have been impinged upon, this is the complaint form.

how very canberran.

Does anyone care to accompany me to the assembly public area for a ciggarette.

im serious.

Surely there are more important issues that require the publics attention as opposed to this one? Poverty, homelessness, literacy levels in school kiddies?

Want to stop smoking? Ban the bloody things you freaking idiots! Asking people to quit smoking if fine and admirable, but taxing the living f**k out of the product, while whinging about is precisely why many people think politicians are the spineless, unimaginitive b’stards, that my experience has unfortunately proven you all to be.

Yes, I do smoke, and your bleating only makes me want to smoke more.

i like the bit about how they will consult to enure the draconian laws are enforced.

i wonder how my rights fare under these wowser laws.

i must consult the bill of rights, i feel my cultural practices are being jackbooted upon.

i would advise any smoker to vote against labour at the next election.

incl the 23 percent of young women.

Over the top,
Completely unenforceable,
Katy – you’ve lost the plot dear – big time.
(and I’m a non smoker)

The pubs and clubs that have just spent a fortune on outdoor areas mainly for smokers may not be too happy. Some may not have bothered if they’d known about the latest measures.