Dangerous Bus Driving

H1NG0 14 January 2008 73

Driving down Northbourne to work this morning, I witnessed a massive brainfade involving three ACTION bus drivers.

Heading South in the the left lane, I noticed three busses ahead in my lane. I switched into the middle lane presuming one of the busses would eventually stop to pick up passengers. As the first bus in the line stopped, the bus at the end of the line (3rd bus) quickly switched into the middle lane forcing the cars in front of me to hit their brakes. The second bus in the line decided to pull out as well, forcing the 3rd bus further into the right lane narrowly missing a Toyota Echo.

The ACTION drivers who switched lanes never even thought about hitting the brakes and did this at speed. I doubt they checked their mirrors as there was simply no time. Luckily, there was just enough space in each lane so nobody got hit. The funny thing is, the bus in the right lane had to switch back over all the lanes to make a quick turn left soon after. Why couldn’t they wait the 30 or so seconds it takes for the other bus to pick up the passengers? Insanity.


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The Jas The Jas 9:07 pm 15 Jan 08

Although it’s hard to tell if you are joking or serious, this will clearly never happen not because of loss of revenue, but because of the hundreds of billions, perhaps even trillions of dollars it would cost to create the necessary infrastructure through out cities and highways, plus the huge cost of manufacturing or modifying cars to suit this new car/tram system.

Trillions of dollars that we would inevitably be taken out of our tax dollars. You can have it taken out of yours if you like, I quite like the feel of actually driving my car freely though.

canberra towie canberra towie 10:10 pm 15 Jan 08

canberra bus drivers and taxi drivers are dickheads anyhow
i’m sure to get a job with either company you just need to be blind and retarded !!

BigDave BigDave 10:16 pm 15 Jan 08

Yes hingo, I’m well aware of how the thread started but it soon swayed along the lines I’m talking about with Gungahlin Al quoting Road Rule 77 – Giving Way To Buses.
Anyhow, I’d hazard a guess that no one here has ever driven a fully loaded bus in service and running 10 minutes plus late…
Care to try?

JC JC 2:16 am 16 Jan 08

“Like Vice Pope, I, too, was almost hit by an ACTION bus at a roundabout in Wanniassa yesterday.
The driver disregarded the old ‘Give Way to the Right’ rule and missed my family by an inch! A frightening way to start the day. Perhaps a breath test prior to commencement of work on Sunday mornings is in order at Tuggeranong ACTION HW?

Comment by marcothepolopony — 14 January, 2008 @ 12:53 pm “

Marcothepolopony, there is no such thing as a give way to the right rule. Go read the rule book. With people beliving that no wonder we have so many problems. I bet you don’t understand the two different merging rules either

FYI the roundabout give-way rule states you must give way too all vehicles already on the roundabout. So if the bus pulls into the roundabout and you are hooning through, even from the right, then so long as the bus (or any vehicle) for that matter has entered the roundabout before you, thenYOU are the one that has to give way.

I hate the roundabout at William Hovel/Drake Brockman heading towards Belco for this reason. If turning right off Drake Brockman onto William Hovell, I wish I had a dollar for every car that failed to give way to me, hooning through without slowing down. Touch wood but I have never been hit. The crap things is these fools toot and carry on as if they are in the right.

As for giving way to buses, you have to give way if they and you are in the same lane of traffic or they are in a bus bay. But if on a multilane road like Northborne then they have no special right to change lanes. That is what the quote from the road rules says. That being said there is always the unwritten rules of the biggest vehicle has right of way!!!

JC JC 2:21 am 16 Jan 08

PS. see page 47 of this for the roundabout giveway rule above:

http://www.tams.act.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0003/64479/2007_RoadRules_Part_C2.pdf

howdy howdy 9:48 am 16 Jan 08

http://www.driving-school.com.au/giveway.htm

Theoretically cars entering from the right are most likely to enter the roundabout first. Just because a car has managed to get their nose onto the roundabout first doesn’t give them the right of way to then pull out in front of someone traveling through on the right – that’s how accidents occur, no wonder you are always getting beeped. People will usually only beep you when you have put them at risk.

Driving is about being defensive – if you are involved in an accident but not at fault legally could you have avioded it? If a car starts drifting into your lane do you continue to sit next to it or slow down and merge in behind in case they are drunk off their nuts?

I believe the ‘give way to the right’ rule is a general rule that applies to most intersections (and situations where the give way rules are not clearly defined or obvious). And according to any driving school the give way to the right rule does apply to roundabouts as well. There is something separate in the rule books I believe that covers situations where the give way to the right rule applies.

And above all the give way to the right rule just makes common sense. If you don’t want to get hit drive defensively – watch other drivers in case they screw up – don’t just assume they are going to stop, not merge into you, not pull out in front of you… If they are approaching an intersection too fast get ready to brake and look for the option to change lanes (whilst watching what lane they may also be going for), don’t drive in a cars blind spot. We are all human and humans make errors.

It’s not just our pride at stake on the road it’s usually more so your life and the life of others. Cars nowadays crumple incredibly easy and even if your car has all the safety features in a roundabout accident the other person’s car may not and you could kill a baby, a passenger and end up paralised for life for the sake of your pride…

But you had right of way you cry!!!!!
So what. You saw the accident coming.

(re cars attached to the road – yeah, just a joke but a nice pipe dream for keeping us all safe : )

howdy howdy 10:58 am 16 Jan 08

Just looking at other RTA websites and driving school literature etc they often stress that road rules are about “driving to avoid a collision” If you see someone running a red you don’t go through your green light and hope they stop, or to make a point about how ‘close they came to hitting you’ because you had right of way.

To cover every driving situation ie. a chapter on what to do when a drunk driver breaks each road rule – would be a bit ridiculous.
It’s also about common sense and avoiding potential accidents. Ever heard that an insurance company may asses your accident differently to the police? The police would say – drunk driver at fault running light, the insurance company might asses that the red light runner was already halfway across the intersection when you entered and you would have had a clear view of them and you should have been looking. Your fault.

caf caf 11:25 am 16 Jan 08

That applies equally to the person coming from the right too though. If you’re flying up to the roundabout at great speed, and you can see someone approaching from the left entrance at a slower speed, but it’s clear that they’ll nonetheless get there before you – SLOW DOWN.

Gungahlin Al Gungahlin Al 11:54 am 16 Jan 08

What’s that old line about “he died defending his right of way”…?

howdy howdy 12:25 pm 16 Jan 08

Caf, exactly : ) responsibility lies on both sides. Many people speed up on roundabout entry to try and make it look like you pulled out too close and freak you out.

In JC’s example it appears both drivers believe they have right of way, universally in Australia it’s safer to go with give way to the right when in doubt.

JC – even if you make it there first you’re cutting it too fine on that roundabout. Unfort round abouts are hard to get onto in peak hour when the traffic coming from the right has flow and speed and you are trying to get out from a complete stop. And the people on the right of you are not expecting to have to slow down for the traffic on their left.
Everyone else, be defensive/courteous and slow down on roundabouts and give JC a chance to get out! (You’re supposed to go down a few gears).

howdy howdy 12:35 pm 16 Jan 08

Preachy preachy : ) sorry I’ll stop now. At this rate I’ll probably run into someone at a roundabout on the way home : P

Just want people to see the life in the car, not the car as another obstacle/challenge/ego.

JC JC 5:23 pm 16 Jan 08

Well Howdy great attitude you have? You suscribe to the beleif that because people do it one way it is right? What crap. People who think like you are the one’s who don’t understand the traffic flow benifits of round-abouts, I bet you hate them?. To work properly you need to be going much the same speed, WHEN you get a fool entering a round-about at 70km/h and someone from a start you can see the problem. In most cases the only reason it is cutting it fine is because people like you plough stright through not doing as the law says.

The Drake-Brockman/William Hovell one is the classic example. The problem is being a 3 way round-about and with the main approach coming from the 90Km/h William Hovell Dr and the flow into Drake Brockman from the Kingsford Smith being small there is little traffic to break the William Hovell flow. If people did the right thing and look both LEFT and RIGHT and SLOWED DOWN and GIVE WAY as the law says it would work.

And BTW if my nose is in the round-about I have right of way, very very simple. But as someone else said even if in the right you must avoid putting youtself at risk so 9/10 times when I see an indiot like Howdy flying up to the round-about I won’t go in. Sometimes you don’t know however.

One last thing there is NO WHERE in the book that has a give way to the right rule. Maybe 30 years ago.

howdy howdy 5:48 pm 16 Jan 08

I think you only read part of what I wrote, maybe just the part written to you. Nevermind.

I have an old car. I go so slowly through roundabouts I get tailgated reguarily. I could fit 7 cars safely behind me on the road but by the time I’ve braked and entered a roundabout some agro is up my backside. I know how fast they go, don’t worry.

“If people did the right thing and look both LEFT and RIGHT and SLOWED DOWN and GIVE WAY as the law says it would work”

– is what I was also supporting, only with the extra angle of ‘it’s also your responsibility to take care and don’t expect people to always do this when you are on the road’ – which your comments suggest that you support

“And BTW if my nose is in the round-about I have right of way, very very simple”

– could contradict what you said was the right thing to do as quoted above as there were three other things you suggested that came into play. And you still have to give way to traffic already on the roundabout, as the road rule said.

Actually I’m still not sure how correct that is. I’d like to call an insurance company and ask : P
I actually got my license approx 8 years ago. Did you go to the driving school link? That says give way to the right and is current.

Reading through the lines we both seem to agree that it’s not all black and white though. You have every right to get annoyed at people flying recklessly through round abouts.

Just take care and don’t get hit by one of them
: )

el ......VNBerlinaV8 el ......VNBerlinaV8 6:33 pm 16 Jan 08

It’s both, guys.

Give way to vehicles already on the roundabout, and give way to traffic on the right.

JC JC 7:58 pm 16 Jan 08

Great driving school that one!!! The road rules I follow are the ones on the TAMS website. Which do you think is right? Yeah the driving school. I will repeat there is no such thing as a give way to the right rule. Yes in most cases that is the practical interpritation, there are however many cases now where you must also give way to the left. A round-about is one such example, although with that it is give way to everything already on the roundabout.

But yes it is up to everyone to ensure saftey on the road. I try not to be assertive without being a bully.

Oh BTW have a look at that thing with your picture on it. Unless you are American it is a drivers licence, not license!!!

vandam vandam 8:03 pm 16 Jan 08

Jas,

my post should read, the road shouldn’t be a place for cyclists! purely for safety reasons and because of the way they’ve gone about it! widen the road, great, but making the lanes smaller….of course this was going to cause problems for buses and trucks etc.

JC JC 8:07 pm 16 Jan 08

The following links are from the NATION road rules. Even though it is from the NSW RTA they still apply in the ACT:

First giving way:

http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/rulesregulations/downloads/p7.pdf

See no blanket give way to the right rule anywhere, although yes in most cases you do give way to vehicles on your right.

And roundabout rules:
http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/rulesregulations/downloads/p9.pdf

They are pretty clear actually. The problem is people in this day and age are way too selfish and don’t give a rats.

howdy howdy 10:17 pm 16 Jan 08

I think it’s both, but if you can’t find it written then the RTA probably consider that given the nature of the roundabout that the ‘give way to traffic already on the roundabout’ rule adequately incorporates the give way to the right rule. I see sense in that.

I’m actually trying to think of such an incident of someone failing to give way or pulling out in front of me, or someone else but I can’t. Most scary moments I’ve seen are people turning from the wrong lane… Roundabouts seem to flow fairly nicely otherwise.

In order to ensure smooth traffic flow it is up to up to the car on the the left to asses whether they have time to safely pull out (traffic to the right being considered as ‘oncoming traffic’). If they don’t have time to pull out, they give way. Especially on smaller suburban roundabouts.

Most of the time roundabouts are designed so that you are safe to pull out unless there is someone already on it. Even if there is someone already on the roundabout it can be perfectly safe to pull out (as long as you aren’t forcing someone to slow down and risking a collision). If giving way to the right means stopping when you had a perfectly safe gap than I can see why you would say the rule doesn’t apply 🙂

If someone has to give way to the left then surely they were already on the roundabout and a car has pulled out in front of them?

That’s where I’m a bit stumped. Ok, doing 90k’s, yep. That probably explains all the street signs you see knocked out on each corner… They’re just idiots anyway. Take evasive action, don’t go near them and just hope they write their car off on a light pole, not you.

Anyway, I got my ‘license’ from Mozilla Firefox spell check. I’m yet to get my real ‘licence’. Noooooooooooo, red underlines haunting meeee!!!!

So how abouts them buses? : P

howdy howdy 10:29 pm 16 Jan 08

Yeah no, I think this is what got me started –

The timing of most roundabouts I can think of is such that if someone has to give way to the left then surely they were already on the roundabout and a car has pulled out in front of them.

A really small roundabout – maybe, if you both entered at the same-ish time.
A big straight roundabout, hmmmmm. yeah, but still, i reckon the car on the left, even if speeding would be on it first.

aghhhhhhhhhhhh

my brain : (

howdy howdy 10:35 pm 16 Jan 08

(And why I said you might be cutting it fine if you’re often being beeped – sorry if this was presumptuous but as above. I’m a bit stumped : (

: )

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