21 June 2009

Disabled parking review released into the wild

| johnboy
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[First filed: June 19, 2009 @ 21:49]

TAMS has unveiled their review into disabled parking.

A quick reading of the executive summary suggests all is not not in compliance with standards in the ACT. (Would we really expect anything different?)

    Only a few disabled parking spaces comply with all of the criteria identified in the relevant standards. This study found that although many of the disabled parking spaces provided within the ACT town and group centres do not comply with the relevant standards for the physical design of the spaces most are suitable for unconstrained use by disabled persons.

Anyway the recommendations are interesting:

    A rate of 3% of spaces for disabled parking would better meet the demand for disabled parking and should be considered for implementation in public car parks. This parking would need to be located close to likely destinations. Where there is likely to be an overall shortage of standard parking, a much higher percentage of disabled parking should be provided. Centres such as Manuka provide far beyond the required levels of disabled parking, however all spaces were utilised throughout most of the survey period, there was a clear shortage of parking provided generally with the majority of standard parking also occupied most of the time.

    Additional disabled parking is recommended for Manuka.

    Disabled parking is recommended to be relocated at Jamison to better access the revised shopping centre arrangements.

    Additional disabled parking should be considered at centres where there is one or less available space at any of the survey times: Ainslie, Charnwood, Coolemon Court, Weston, Kippax and Southlands.

    There appears to be a case to review the basis upon which parking permits are issued in oreder [Sic] to better understand the dramatic increase in the number of permits issued and the corresponding increase in parking demand for disabled persons.

The lack of proofing in the report is somewhat alarming.

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Actually, i’m just talking shit. I’m stuck in a wheelchair….. i dont actually care if they are taken…. its not gonna hurt me to push a bit further…..

I park in the disability spots cos its closer to the entrance… and cos they wider nobody slams their car door into my Barina…. I’m not disabled but hey i figure its not being used then, might as well make use of my tax paying money.

Joshua said :

peterH #58, no I don’t have kids. Don’t want them, they’re apparently extremely inconvenient when you want to do things like go to the shops. Just because you do have kids doesn’t make you special. I went to school with 16 year olds that had them, it aint hard. Nobody made you have kids, my taxes I suspect help pay for your little darlings (and no I don’t expect they’ll be paying me a pension some day) so stop being a victim, children correct me if I’m wrong are not a disability.

your taxes do not pay for my children. my wife and i survive on a my incomes. plural. I also went to school with 16yo’s who had kids. big whoop. my children cost me more than you will ever earn, IVF does that to you. Not a victim, just think that you should know more about the facts before you rope me into the welfare payment parent group. I don’t ask for handouts from the govt, and saw the stimulus payment as a way to get some of the tax I had paid over the years back. same as the child bonus. If you think that kids are extremely inconvenient, I hope you at least wake up first. Best thing i have ever done. yes, the parking is a pain sometimes, but mainly due to idiots who park in the spots without kids. Once my children are out of the pram, I won’t be using the spaces.

It needs to be changed, but in a way that is actually helpful to the people who rely on it: http://cranleighparentsandfriends.blogspot.com/2009/03/sick-of-being-grateful.html.

What Joshua said, +1.

The trouble with it being doctor-certificate-based, is that sadly, doctors aren’t very good at being a regulatory body for things like this. The system clearly isn’t working for the people it is for, and needs to be changed.

Clown Killer9:06 am 23 Jun 09

If they want more disabled spaces they could start by making the shopping centres convert those stupid spots they try and set aside for parents with kiddies.

Those parents-with-prams spots carry no regulatory weight whatsoever anyone can park in them. They’re just put in by the shopping centre management because they want to make visiting their shopping centre more appealing to this demographic who have been identified through market research to be high yeild customers – mum or dad will stay in the centre longer and spend more if it’s easier to manage with the kids. It’s the same reason they have baby rooms – not because they are obliged to provide them, but because without them parents feel that its easier to take the kids home to change, feed whatever.

I am as against abuse of the system as anyone, Pandy, if not more. And I am very grateful that so many others in the community, like yourself, feel the same way.

Carers and people with a disability do need the help and support of their community, as many have reached the end of their tether and are finding it difficult to cope as exemplified in this article by Sue Corrigan.

Well a wheelchair is one thing. But anyone who can walk, I don’t believe the abuse i have seen in the system too.

No. It is. My daughter is not going to magically walk tomorrow, and I don’t need any more of that bureaucratic crap in my life.

Granny, I have seen people with permanet conditions dancing. If they can dance, maybe they don’t need a sticker? Once a year is not too much to ask for to go and see a doctor, especially as they will be saving thousands in parking fees.

Yes, the spaces should definitely only be used by carers when the person with a disability is being transported, but once again be careful how you judge that as noted by willo.

The stickers should not be reviewed every year if the condition is permanent. We are all so sick of doctors’ appointments and filling out paperwork rubbish. No-one would be happier if there was a sudden miracle cure than those with stickers, but for most people this is not likely to be the case.

How many times do you need to tell someone that you’ve had your leg cut off, for goodness’ sake?

People with a disability and their carers have made it abundantly clear that they would like to be able to tell their story once. Every single time ….

If the condition is likely to change it is the responsibility of the doctor to specify the time period for the permit, and one would presume this is not difficult. If the process needs scrutiny and accountability all well and good, but the logical mechanism for review is still inherently at the length of time stipulated by the medical practitioner.

peterH #58, no I don’t have kids. Don’t want them, they’re apparently extremely inconvenient when you want to do things like go to the shops. Just because you do have kids doesn’t make you special. I went to school with 16 year olds that had them, it aint hard. Nobody made you have kids, my taxes I suspect help pay for your little darlings (and no I don’t expect they’ll be paying me a pension some day) so stop being a victim, children correct me if I’m wrong are not a disability.

Bundybear #62, regarding your second point and the moving van. I keep a tyre valve tightener that I picked up one day at SuperCheap Auto in my car. Very useful in that sort of situation. May not move the bastard but I can guarantee you from experience that a suitable written note on the windscreen along with 4 completely flat tyres is enough to ensure that the individual doesn’t park there again.

“I have seen people who are carers park in the spots, do their shopping and come back with no sign of the disabled person in their care, perhaps they are somewhere else. carers do a great job looking after their family and others in their care, but if there is no disabled person in the car, and it is not a case of a pickup, maybe they could park in another spot?”
+2
No maybe about it, it is illegal to use a disabled permit for any situation other then when transporting the disabled person the permit has been issued to. T has a permit, always in a wheelchair, but uses the permit so rarely that when I went to renew it, I found it had expired by about six months. Why, ’cause it’s virtually impossible to access a disabled spot. Why, ’cause there’s too many selfish and inconsiderate tossers out there who can’t think past their own immediate needs to consider anyone else.
My classic is the guy who parked a hired moving van in the disabled space, put his mum’s permit on the dash, went to collect a “couple of things to put in storage for mum” and came back FOUR DAYS later. Private building, no access to rangers, no fine. All I could do was leave him notes about what a tosser he was, and to let him know that the man dying of cancer who needs access to the space had appreciated the hoops he had to jump through to get to medical appointments.
Said tosser attempted to do the same thing again a couple of months later – no one in the universe matters but him – but I politely suggested that might not be a terribly good idea, and he got the hint.

I have seen people who are carers park in the spots, do their shopping and come back with no sign of the disabled person in their care, perhaps they are somewhere else. carers do a great job looking after their family and others in their care, but if there is no disabled person in the car, and it is not a case of a pickup, maybe they could park in another spot?

+1

Hells_Bells7411:03 am 22 Jun 09

Oh sorry I shouldn’t have said ‘sticker’ was more an in and out of glovebox when needed type thing.

Hells_Bells7410:55 am 22 Jun 09

I just wrote a painfully long piece with my annoying new keyboard only to accidently press something and have it deleted. Got the old keyboard out now and shall keep it sweet.

My friend who has since moved away from Canberra, had a sticker for her mum in Sydney, for the very rare times she had to drive her somewhere. Her and her hubby also felt justified in using it anytime they liked. My mum was given one for my nanna in Ballina when she made her last trip here in ’94 for my wedding and her odd trips at the time to Ballina because she has crippling arthritis and cannot walk more than 50 metres or so and that takes an effort, she never ever used it without nan in the car, but the temptation is there for people with no morals.

My friend’s very much older hubby should’ve learnt years before they had the sticker, he had his precious car coined outside Dickson shops when popping in one night using a disabled spot. Gotta love karma!

As for the parents-with-prams parks, after 4 kids I can see the sense in them, wouldn’t use them all the time and certainly don’t now but they were a bloody Godsend when I needed them. I’m still shocked as to why they need defending, perhaps the attacking people who find us parents lazy, want the same close spots free for themselves to be even lazier? Oh and I’m all for letting disabled drivers use the close parents parks if no others are available, although they are rarely big enough for that purpose.

Joshua said :

If they want more disabled spaces they could start by making the shopping centres convert those stupid spots they try and set aside for parents with kiddies.

If you’re that concerned about your precious little kids, park away from the high traffic areas and walk. Judging by the state of a lot of kids I see they could use the exercise.

right. got kids, do you? how about you try to get 3 kids out of the car, 2 into a pram and prevent any one of them hitting another car with the door. I am all for a permit system for parents with prams parks, then maybe the people who park there for the convenience minus kids would be less inclined. In regards to the disabled parking system, fines will discourage non disabled parkers. problem is that I have seen people who are carers park in the spots, do their shopping and come back with no sign of the disabled person in their care, perhaps they are somewhere else. carers do a great job looking after their family and others in their care, but if there is no disabled person in the car, and it is not a case of a pickup, maybe they could park in another spot?

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy9:58 am 22 Jun 09

Perhaps we need a ‘pool’ of available disabled parking permits, which is allocated to the most needy, with the number of permits proportional to the number of available spots.

And big fines for non-disabled people who park in disabled spots.

Clown Killer9:32 am 22 Jun 09

Well, the CT says permits have jumped from 2000 in 2000 to 15000 in 2007.

I get the impression that there are also a lot of short term permits issued by doctors – for people who have injuries, but that will recover. I tore a calf muscle a couple of years agoand my GP asked my if I wanted a parking permit for a month or so while I recovered. I was bemused but declined.

SheepGroper said :

bigred said :

Bigred – And the legally blind shouldn’t be allowed to park their landcruisers in disabled spots – they shouldn’t be allowed to drive them either.

Sheepgroper – As if the blind drive – that’s what they have guide dogs for!

Shouldn’t they be parking in the blind spots anyway?

+1. and should be reviewed once a year

Well, the CT says permits have jumped from 2000 in 2000 to 15000 in 2007.

The suggestion has been made that there needs to be a review of criteria for a permit. Ya think?

Granny said :

I think ‘pick up and set down only’ areas are a good idea. It wouldn’t generally help our family much because I couldn’t leave my daughter while I parked elsewhere, unless her dad was with us; but it would definitely be a great help to people in similar circumstances to threepaws.

We still need more disabled spaces, however, as there really aren’t enough to go around, and it is a safety issue to have to trust to other drivers not to hit people with a disability when carers are forced to use regular parking spaces. When someone can’t move themselves out of harm’s way that is really scary.

These don’t work either Granny; people see ‘pick up and set down’ areas as just another parking spot. The principle at our school puts notices in every newsletter begging carers/parents not to park in our set-down safety area during drop-off time each morning, but lazy, selfish people insist on parking there – causing chaos and endangering kids (who are then forced to be dropped off in other areas and cross the road) each morning.

If they want more disabled spaces they could start by making the shopping centres convert those stupid spots they try and set aside for parents with kiddies.

If you’re that concerned about your precious little kids, park away from the high traffic areas and walk. Judging by the state of a lot of kids I see they could use the exercise.

its a true story, really.

bigred said :

And the legally blind shouldn’t be allowed to park their landcruisers in disabled spots – they shouldn’t be allowed to drive them either.

As if the blind drive – that’s what they have guide dogs for!

yeah fat chicks shouldn’t be allowed to park in disabled spots. Same for fat blokes. And the legally blind shouldn’t be allowed to park their landcruisers in disabled spots – they shouldn’t be allowed to drive them either.

One thought I have with regards to the parking at Centrelink in Woden, is even though the parking across the road is ‘pay parking’ there are 4 disabled spots on the corner near Centrelink, and even though its a pay-parking area, its free for under 2hrs. How many people spend 2hrs in Centrelink?

To whome do you complain about people who appear to be abusing the system?

I know of one disabled sticker person who whilst in pain, will go and dance 2 or 3 times a week.

I’m guessing these two posts below are addressed to my Centrelink-related post, which on my screen comes up as #40

Postalgeek said :

#39 sympathies for your passenger, but just to clarify, are you complaining because someone got to an unreserved car spot before you?

Thanks for your kind consideration.

No, I doubt the car space in question was reserved for use by the disabled. But nor in my view was this modest carpark provided for use by lazy inconsiderate casual shoppers etc, who have no purpose to be there, other than to occupy spaces intended for Centrelink clientele. An obvious percentage of whom are disabled, and some quite severely. There are also ‘single welfare parents’ with babies etc to consider, if consideration holds any place in the self-possessed lives of the NRMA driver of ‘SAFER 1’ and similar.

In general terms, why indeed would the well-off with no valid reason to park at Centrelink be there at all, except to in effect ‘snitch a freebie’ from those least able to afford, who are then obliged to pay-park?

Hey I know its only an insignificant quibble in the greater scheme of things; worse things happen at sea, as my old Dad would say. I guess its just a small reflection of today’s increasingly dog-eat-dog attitude. But these people’s inconsideration proved an unneccesary impost to my struggling friend, and it got under my skin, as there were plenty of vacant spaces in carparks only 50 metres away.

s-s-a said :


#39 you’ll find the diabled parking space at Woden Centrelink is nearly always taken, because most of the other disabled spaces in that corner of the universe are inside paid parking.

In other words, those truly disabled who have no business to conduct at Centrelink, would rather walk further to their alternative destination, just to save a few cents?

S4anta said :

I think if anyone couldn’t tell that Ians comment was a bit tongue in cheek probably needs a big glass of HTFU and needs to stop being such a flappy, neo con, conversative wowser for Pete’s sake.

Your comment of tongue in vitriol was much more obvious than that Ian’s comment was tongue in cheek.

Ian said :

I often joke to my family that they should have parking spaces for really fat people in the farthest flung reaches of the carpark, to force them to walk further and get some exercise.

I think if anyone couldn’t tell that Ians comment was a bit tongue in cheek probably needs a big glass of HTFU and needs to stop being such a flappy, neo con, conversative wowser for Pete’s sake.

Perhaps rather than more disabled spaces, there could be more ‘pick up and set down only’ areas

There used to be one of these at the Hoyts entrance at Woden. It almost always had someone parked in it. Same with the 5-min zone outside Babar cafe – full of long-stayers. Disabled permit spaces DO have a higher fine than most other parking infringements – last time I checked was several years ago and it was $185.

#39 you’ll find the diabled parking space at Woden Centrelink is nearly always taken, because most of the other disabled spaces in that corner of the universe are inside paid parking.

#23 the “minimum standard” argument will never wash because disabled access spaces are bigger and therefore more of them will reduce the overall number of spaces able to fit. Centre management like to be able to advertise the maximum number of spaces to potential tenants – most of whom won’t give a rats that 10% of available spaces are disabled parking.

The hospital situation is shocking – even with most of the ground floor of the multi-storey available for disabled parking it can STILL be difficult to get a spot.

#39 sympathies for your passenger, but just to clarify, are you complaining because someone got to an unreserved car spot before you?

willo said :

another point is that many “able bodied” people (such as myself) drop off and pick up people with disabilities from such places…..

For random mention, last Friday I arranged to drive my (physically) disabled neighbour to Centrelink Woden which contains a small parking area of about eight spaces, in contrast to the voluminous user-pay public carpark next to the Plaza. The Centrelink carpark was full but there was someone just leaving so we quickly circled the block, only to see a single motorist driving a new Hyundai slathered in NRMA Driving School logo (rego # SAFER 1) zip into the only, just-vacated spot.

My passenger insisted he limp in with me from the public carpark, although it was fairly heavy going for him, while we watched this selfish NRMA representative stride off healthily and without shame, straight into the Plaza. Just one more reason, I thought, to avoid any dealings with ‘your community based’ NRMA.

While waiting outside I also noticed quite a few new-ish and valuable cars occupying space at Centrelink, it seemed unlikely they were from clients requiring welfare assistance and more probably belong to wealthy penny-pinching opportunists who, as with the NRMA amoeba, showed no sympathy of community needs.

I think ‘pick up and set down only’ areas are a good idea. It wouldn’t generally help our family much because I couldn’t leave my daughter while I parked elsewhere, unless her dad was with us; but it would definitely be a great help to people in similar circumstances to threepaws.

We still need more disabled spaces, however, as there really aren’t enough to go around, and it is a safety issue to have to trust to other drivers not to hit people with a disability when carers are forced to use regular parking spaces. When someone can’t move themselves out of harm’s way that is really scary.

Perhaps rather than more disabled spaces, there could be more ‘pick up and set down only’ areas. Many people may simply need the convenience and safety of entering a building without risking life and limb.

When I used to take my nan out for ‘excursions’, medical, shopping or otherwise, I was happy to park wherever, as long as I could drop her as close our destination as possible. She could potter along ok with her frame, but needed assistance in and out of the car, and was simply unable to negotiate traffic in carparks. I would drop her off, then find a parking space and join her.

I often used loading zones or disabled spaces (she had a permit but refused to let me use it because she thought there was probably someone worse off than her) for just long enough for me to get her in or out of the car. I swear if anyone had abused me or tried to give me a ticket, I would have gone beserk.

And perhaps I should have first read your post of #24 Ian and I would not have so aggressive and individually highlighted you in my comments. My apologies.

Ian said :

I often joke to my family that they should have parking spaces for really fat people in the farthest flung reaches of the carpark, to force them to walk further and get some exercise.

The concentration in the media and from government on obesity seems to have opened the floodgates. Walking through these are a lot of nasty sh*theads that feel that they have licence to abuse people who may be of a larger size. Not only do you read them on RiotACT, you hear them do it to strangers in public places. These people are obnoxious bullies. I find this whole emphasis on weight disturbing. I have had relatives and friends who have had life threatening eating disorders. None of this sort of stuff helps and simply shows a lack of empathy for others. Your not a smart, just an arse Ian.

It’s apparently healthy peeps with disabled stickers (perhaps they are a carer, perhaps they have conned a doctor) that use them to avoid paying for parking at work that annoy me.

Outside the L.A. there’s a 4 hour carpark. I’ve noted several cars with disabled permits that park there all day, every day and never pay. If the driver was the disabled one, they are entitled to park closer to their building, so all I see is someone rorting the system.

In Victoria there were 2 classes of permit – one that allowed access to disabled parking, and the other allowed extended access to the regular parking. The rule was you could stay twice the time allowed, but you still had to pay the fee for the regular limit.

A 2 tiered system might take the load off the disabled spots by pushing the less-impaired to regular spots.

Clown Killer4:01 pm 20 Jun 09

And to those many hundreds of you that do not have a disabled parking permit but think it’s okay to park in a disabled spot for just a few minutes because nobody’s using it and it seems convenient, you really do suck, and I wish you a special place in hell.

On that I couldn’t agree more SwamiOFswank.

swamiOFswank3:46 pm 20 Jun 09

I have a few points to add:

There are clearly not enough disabled parking spots at the majority of shopping centres and health related centres (hospitals, doctors etc) in Canberra at all. Regardless of the ‘research’ you could ask anyone that has a disabled driver permit, and they’ll universally tell you that there are often no vacant disabled parking spots. Furthermore the majority will tell you that they often see physically able people leaving vehicles, or vehicles with no permit displayed parked with people waiting for others – eg outside ATM’s and so on. Either way, those complaints are valid, or appear to be.

What bothers me though is the out and out verbal abuse, nasty notes and so on that various people leave. My mother is 62, and after a couple of serious accidents, has had a full knee replacement (they replace about 50% of your lower and upper leg bones as well), and has also had to have bone removed from her hip. Her other joints on that side of her body have marked degenerative osteoarthritis due to the previous injuries. Yet…she walks, and she appears to walk well. Her entitlement to a disabled parking permit is due to only being able to walk short distances without resting, not being able to carry more than a couple of kilo’s of shopping items, and because of the chronic pain associated with her condition. But she suffers abuse and ridicule on a regular basis from morons who perceive that she is rorting the use of a disabled parking space. And yes, she does go to a gym, because her ongoing mobility depends on her having regular exercise!!

Recently, I was driving a large white van owned by a community group, but that had no particular signs on the outside of the van – except on the back, where there were large wheelchair stickers, and stickers saying ‘please don’t park within 3m of this van’ due to the wheelchair hoist inside needing that space in order to be operational. There was a disabled parking permit in the front window. Admittedly, it did resemble a large tradies van (being a new white Toyota Commuter van with no apparent seats in the rear).

I parked outside the Commonwealth Bank at Kippax, in the disabled spot that I was entitled to use – I was about to pick up people in wheelchairs – but because I had noone else with me when I got out of the van, I was abused. First abuser was an old lady, who told me off and wrote down the number plates before making a phone call to report me. Then a group of pram-pushing young mum’s who’d heard the old lady had a go at me as well. Next was a rough-looking chap in truckie-type attire. Then, a man in a suit. I felt like utter crap, as though I was doing something wrong and as though I should return to floating on the surface of the pond I’d obviously slimed my way out of. Despite all of this, I politely pointed out that it was a wheelchair-hoist equipped van, and that if they would look, I did have a permit, and that I would be returning in several minutes with people with disabilities who required use of the wheelchair hoist.

Bottom line was that I suddenly had a very real taste of what it’s like to not appear to have a disability and yet face the scorn and contempt of people who were judging my capacity without having any idea! I don’t have a disability, but I have a very first hand experience of what people like my mother and others who have commented here go through – and it’s quite horrifying. Please think before you judge!!

And to those many hundreds of you that do not have a disabled parking permit but think it’s okay to park in a disabled spot for just a few minutes because nobody’s using it and it seems convenient, you really do suck, and I wish you a special place in hell.

“Also, private carparks should have some means of photographing the cars of offenders and reporting it to the parking inspection people. Possibly just some kind of PDA app or via mobile.”

There’s nothing the parking inspection people can do. Its a private car park. The spaces aren’t gazetted in accordance with what is needed in a public car park. No offence committed. May be immoral, just not illegal in a private car park

Perhaps the disabled spaces could have security footage recorded in cases of dispute.

I think it would give people a chance to feel they can be proactive about the frustration they feel and also mean that perhaps they don’t feel the need to abuse me and willo. But if safeguards are necessary it shouldn’t be too hard to give some thought to what they could be. What are your specific concerns, CK?

Clown Killer2:55 pm 20 Jun 09

…take the snap with your [mobile]and MMS it to 13BUSTED or something.

i like the idea Granny but I think that it would be too open for abuse.

Sorry mobile, not email .. d’uh!

I actually agree with willo. He’s using the spot only for the valid and legitimate purpose. A spot further away is useless if the person with a disability has a frame, and the wider spaces are necessary for wheelchairs etc. It doesn’t matter so much who is driving the car as what the purpose is for. I am also tired of being abused or given the evil eye if I am dropping off or collecting.

You will probably find, as many people have stated, that the solution is two-fold. Medical professionals shouldn’t hand them out like candy, and the number of spaces should be increased.

Also these parking spaces should have a much higher level of inspection than any of the others. It should be almost guaranteed that if you don’t have a current, valid permit you will be caught.

I’m not sure what the penalty is but that should probably be prohibitive. We should really make it not worth the risk.

Also, private carparks should have some means of photographing the cars of offenders and reporting it to the parking inspection people. Possibly just some kind of PDA app or via mobile.

The public should also have a well known and promoted number to do this – take the snap with your email and MMS it to 13BUSTED or something.

Clown Killer2:33 pm 20 Jun 09

I’m not getting into that debte other than to say that mine was a specific example. Others would generalise at their own risk.

In the midst of sounding like a wanker here, I don’t see the logic in this statement? If there is a shortage of parking, why does the 3% of the carpark already allocated to disabled bays need to increase to say 5% so there is even more of a shortage of parking?

Well, for numbers sake, lets take the carparks at Canberra Hospital. If theres only one disabled spot and a shortage of parking in one carpark, a disabled driver could have to walk from another carpark further from the area they wish to reach. For an able-bodied person, walking an extra 100m to another carpark isnt as big a deal as an individual with a mobility problem.

just because someone appears overweight doesn’t mean they are lazy or incapable of doing exercise. Think before you type next time.

Wow. (a) tell me something I didn’t already know, (b) don’t lecture me about what I post.

I’m not exactly underweight myself – so I do have some understanding of these things, and my flippancy is aimed at myself as much as others of the larger persuasion.

ahappychappy1:30 pm 20 Jun 09

Where there is likely to be an overall shortage of standard parking, a much higher percentage of disabled parking should be provided.

In the midst of sounding like a wanker here, I don’t see the logic in this statement?
If there is a shortage of parking, why does the 3% of the carpark already allocated to disabled bays need to increase to say 5% so there is even more of a shortage of parking?

Is it because there is a demographic for people with disabled parking stickers to visit areas with a shortage of parking? Obviously that 700% increase in disabled permits being issued has really effected where the permit holders want to go…

I obviously don’t want to see anyone with a disability unable to park close, and within a suitable distance to the shopping centre, but to me if the average is 3% in 100000 spaces instead of 100 I don’t see the issue as long as that 3% is a minimum standard?

someoneincanb1:26 pm 20 Jun 09

And CK too. People are overweight for many different reasons than pastries and soda. Exercising while being excessively overweight can be dangerous as the cardiac system and joints that are already under greater stress. This is why very over weight people should exercise under the supervision of a professional, not according to CK’s exercise reduction plan of walking extra distance in a carpark. Yes, it is very clear you are no doctor CK.

And leave it alone Ian or you can join them.

Arguments against issuing disabled stickers to the overweight are ontopic. Towie and you are not Nyssa.

You’re both warned.

Bit sensitive about it towie?

Bit of an overreaction to my somewhat flippant comment!

It should say ‘demeaned’…..

Lesson learnt: Don’t type when angry.

He’s got a point JB. Ian’s comment was not justified and actually deemed those who are overweight.

Oh and Ian, just because someone appears overweight doesn’t mean they are lazy or incapable of doing exercise. Think before you type next time.

Knock off the abuse towie.

canberratowie21:05 pm 20 Jun 09

Ian said :

I often joke to my family that they should have parking spaces for really fat people in the farthest flung reaches of the carpark, to force them to walk further and get some exercise.

Well I’d love to come to your house for joke night ! but I wont I cant imagine my sides being that sore from laughing

But just for the record I’m a large guy and I DO park in the farthest flung reaches of the car park But not because I think I need exercise but simply so some other bogen wont open there door onto my car !

Ian your a pin head wake up to your self

I often joke to my family that they should have parking spaces for really fat people in the farthest flung reaches of the carpark, to force them to walk further and get some exercise.

Clown Killer11:54 am 20 Jun 09

… they should be reviewing the amount of disabled car parks in Canberra, but the amount of people who have disabled stickers … too many people have them that don’t really need them …

Couldn’t agree more. Through a work acquaintance I know a person who has one of these permits because they are too fat. Apparently consuming enough pastries and soda will eventually get you to a state where moving around becomes difficult. Now I’m no doctor, but I would have thought that walking gently from a little further away would have been just the medicine this person needs – a little exercise would go a long way to shedding some of their 170-odd kilos.

If someone can walk confidently from the car to the GYM and back, I’d suggest they can take a few more steps and leave the disabled spot for someone who really needs it.

+1

My mum has a disabled sticker, as she has a back condition. She only ever uses disabled car parks if she cant find anything else, or would be required to park too far away that she can handle to walk.

I honestly don’t think they should be reviewing the amount of disabled car parks in Canberra, but the amount of people who have disabled stickers. I do myself believe that too many people have them that don’t really need them, and people who do require the carparks have to miss out. After I suffered a back injury in a car accident, my doctor offered me a temporary disabled sticker that was to be valid for 3 months. I refused it as I felt I didn’t need to use the larger carpark to get in and out of my car, and walking was helping with the pain so not parking right at the front door actually helped me.

A few extra disabled carparks would be nice… but a few less stickers would be even better.

For my 2cents worth. I have a disabled parking permit due to being unable to walk long distances due to (fairly visually obvious) back/joint problems.

I visited Woden to seek specialist X-rays from the place near woolies, knowing there are 4 disabled parks out the front of the building so I wouldnt have to walk too far.

Upon arriving, 3 of the 4 spaces were taken by ‘Symbian Pathology’ company cars. As I arrived there was another car parked on the side of the road being given a ticket as he helped an elderly passenger into the vehicle, due to no disabled parking being available.

I drove in circles for approx 15min waiting for a park anywhere in sight, before giving up and parking in a loading zone. While I understand the illegalities of this, I had the option of either parking where I shouldnt for a 10min X-ray, or returning home sans medical appointment.

My point is that there are a number of reasons for people to have a disabled sticker- heart condition for one- that may not be apparent from the outside

A heart condition by itself is not a good enough reason to need one. The criteria are that a person has to:

– Be unable to walk and/or have pain or difficulty in walking 100 metres;
– Require the use of crutches, a walking frame, callipers, a scooter, a wheelchair or other mobility aid; or
– Be blind.

IMO, MOST but not all of these criteria would be visible.

We have a friend with a lower leg amputation who has a disabled parking permit and APPEARS to be completely able-bodied (provided he’s using his prosthetic).

“able bodied” people (such as myself) drop off and pick up people with disabilities from such places…but onlookers may only observe the driver either returning to or leaving their vehicle on their own…a legitimate use of disabled parking that I for one am sick of being abused for

I am an able-bodied driver of a vehicle with a disabled parking permit. If I am dropping off my family member and then parking I will generally do so in a disabled parking space ONLY if there are no other nearby parking spots. The vehicle gets free parking and extended time limits in any case.

I also have a beef with shopping centres (like Woden) where the ONLY undercover disabled parking spaces are inside pay-for-parking areas. Rain and motorised wheelchairs are not a good combination!

Disabled spots should be only given to people whose disability means they need that spot. Not any disabled person.

The lack of proofing in the report is somewhat alarming.

Agree on this one.

From a quick skim through, there are several places where it mentions that Disability ACT doesn’t keep any statistics that would provide a useful basis for determining demand and explaining why the massive increase in permits issued. Why doesn’t this surprise me?

By the same token though, the authors could have looked to the 2006 Census results to get data on EXACTLY this topic. Doh!

An increased number of spaces is definitely going to be needed in areas of peak demand, especially if permits are going to continue to be handed out willy-nilly.

As an example, the carpark on the southern side of Cooleman Court is adjacent to the community centre where several programs targeting the aged are held. There are FIVE designated spaces in this carpark, two of which are way over the other side near Thai House.

On many occasions at Coolo I see two cars parked side-by-side in a single disabled parking space, which is all good and fine provided that the big space left after the first car parked wasn’t because a person needed to transfer in and out of their wheelchair at a side door. Grrr!

But I suspect that there’s a perception this isn’t a big issue, because wheelchair users are in the vast minority of disabled parking permit holders. However I know people who have to just go home if they can’t find a disabled parking spot that leaves room for them to get in and out of their car safely.

another point is that many “able bodied” people (such as myself) drop off and pick up people with disabilities from such places…..but onlookers may only observe the driver either returning to or leaving their vehicle on their own…..a legitimate use of disabled parking that I for one am sick of being abused for….of course i am not saying that all cases of healthy looking drivers are legitimate….only that all is not always as it seems to the casual observer……

My point is that there are a number of reasons for people to have a disabled sticker- heart condition for one- that may not be apparent from the outside..

I would describe someone that appears in peak physical condition to be just that, someone that “appears to be” in peak physical condition. An example of this is people walking out with the pump or boxercise class covered with sweat then getting into their car which has a disabled permit, its just rediculous.

I didnt know I had to be a GP to make such an observation.

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy8:06 am 20 Jun 09

If someone can walk confidently from the car to the GYM and back, I’d suggest they can take a few more steps and leave the disabled spot for someone who really needs it.

So you can identify someone as being in “in peak physical condition” just from a quick glance..I presume you are a GP then?

A review the basis upon which parking permits are issued in Canberra is DESPERATELY NEEDED!

I have a disabled brother whom I take to CSIAC for swimming each week and without fail the disabled spots are always full with people with valid permits yet no apparent disability, in fact, a large number of these people appear to be in peak physical condition yet they will happily take these disabled spots. We regularly have to unload my brother from the road as a result.

Also, if you suspect someone is abusing the use of a disabled permit is there a forum wheras you can report that person or have their pass earmarked for review?

The fact that TAMS Disabled Parking Spaces Provision was undertaken through a “desktop study” is very revealing.

I also love the fact that disabled spaces were fuller in December than February and they think this is due to a “seasonal variation” of disabled drivers.

Interestingly enough there was a 700% increase in disabled parking permits issued in the ACT between 2000 – 2006, (in the conclusion this is stated as 7 years) and they’re not sure if there has been a 700% increase in disability – or if the criteria for a permit has been ‘relaxed’.

Another fine job from TAMS.

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