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Do we really want to know the grubby details of teen sex?

johnboy 16 June 2010 91

The Canberra Times has a highly descriptive story of a former Scout on trial for his alleged sexual engagements with 13-15 year old girls (also involved with scouting) when he was 17-18.

I’ll leave it to the judge to decide just how serious this is.

But as a reader is this the level of detail you want?

(And how do we stop this sort of thing without returning to the days of chaperones?)

Lurid court details of teenage sex

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91 Responses to Do we really want to know the grubby details of teen sex?
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thelozenger thelozenger 3:19 pm 28 Jun 10

Captain RAAF said :

Umm…looks to me like daddy’s little girl (who just happens to have a liking for c#*%) got busted and now in order to salvage some semblance of dignity the family are crying ‘abuse’.

Not all 13 year old girls are sweet and innocent, in fact from what my 12 year old daughter tells me a lot of them are dirty whores who like nothing more than to conduct the very same activities outlined in that article.

I 100% agree. There needs to be protection for guys who are accused when girls cry rape after just regretting something or getting caught by their parents.

I’ve heard many stories where a girl goes around telling everyone a guy ‘raped’ her after she consented and then was embarrassed by sleeping with said guy. (The girl later admitting she consented).

The said thing is, these guys that it happens to have no protection. A girl can easily cry rape and then the guy can do nothing about it.

13 year old girls are far from innocent these days. I went to an all girls school in Canberra, and by the time I was 15 I was considered ‘frigid’ because I hadn’t slept with a guy.

I’m not saying that they are making it up, just that there needs to be more protection because they could be easily making it up.

mutley mutley 10:25 am 24 Jun 10

Deadmandrinking said :

VG, I would refer you to a story about a WA kid who was just recently cleared of rape, after a year in prison. Our legal system is not perfect. Innocent people do sometimes go to jail. I’m not going to comment on a case that involved a completely different legal system to ours, or one that involve trial by an illegal process, but I can pretty much safely say that there are people in jail all around the world who are innocent.

DMD – That case actually backs up VG’s point. The kids did not plea bargain but maintained his innocence and fought it tooth and nail. The issue with that was that he was banged up in remand for so long as a juvenile while awaiting trial. I seem to recall, and am open to be corrected, that the DPP actually ended up giving the option of dropping the charges but the family wanted an acquittal so pursued the trial to the end.

fgzk fgzk 8:46 am 24 Jun 10

Getalife sounds a lot American. Different country, different legal system. I get that some of you are concerned about people being falsely accused and having their life wrecked. This will happen. What I don’t get is raising this issue in a way that makes it seem like it happens all the time. For me Bimbogeek summed up the legitimate doubt.

Maybe someone should drag out the real stats for how many cases are reported and never make it to court, or make it to court and never go beyond a committal. How many people who have been raped and felt the legal system has failed to get justice. I think you may be horrified. Its not the alleged perpetrators that are being let down by the legal system.

vg vg 10:30 pm 23 Jun 10

getalife123457 said :

“That is absolute bollocks, and your friend can’t be too ‘learned’”

I do work in the legal profession and the 30% statistic is absolutely correct – everything is a plea bargain these days: if you (just per say) were up on countless charges regardless of your guilt, but lets just say you were not guilty, and there was the very large risk of jail time if you proceeded with a not guilty plea, however if you chose to plea guilty there would be no risk of jail time and some of your charges were dropped, what would you honestly opt for…seriously?…however thankyou for your ever so insightful and well informed comments vg.

To quote the crucible (salem witch-hunts):

“If she is innocent! Why do you never wonder if Parris be innocent, or Abigail? Is the accuser always holy now? Were they born this morning as clean as God’s fingers? I’ll tell you what’s walking Salem—-vengeance is walking Salem. We are what we always were in Salem, but now the little crazy children are jangling the keys of the kingdom, and common vengeance writes the law! This warrant’s vengeance!”

It’s sad from reading this thread that it would completely blow so many peoples minds to even FATHOM that there’s another side to the story, or to even FATHOM that not everything you read about or hear is true, or to even really fathom that teenage girls can be vengeful, manipulative and spiteful.

There was a case a few years back in the US where a math teacher failed half of his year 12 class. 7 of the failed students launched sexual assault cases in a vengence attempt against said teacher…it happens.

I will again say bollocks, having spent the last 20 years, not 20 minutes, right amongst it in the ACT judicial system. The fact that you refer to ‘jail time’ in the ACT only shows how little you know. Plea bargaining is also an American phrase

“but I can pretty much safely say that there are people in jail all around the world who are innocent.”

You’d have to be an idiot not to agree, but I can pretty much safely say there’s 1000 times more guilty people in prison

getalife123457 getalife123457 8:15 pm 23 Jun 10

“That is absolute bollocks, and your friend can’t be too ‘learned’”

I do work in the legal profession and the 30% statistic is absolutely correct – everything is a plea bargain these days: if you (just per say) were up on countless charges regardless of your guilt, but lets just say you were not guilty, and there was the very large risk of jail time if you proceeded with a not guilty plea, however if you chose to plea guilty there would be no risk of jail time and some of your charges were dropped, what would you honestly opt for…seriously?…however thankyou for your ever so insightful and well informed comments vg.

To quote the crucible (salem witch-hunts):

“If she is innocent! Why do you never wonder if Parris be innocent, or Abigail? Is the accuser always holy now? Were they born this morning as clean as God’s fingers? I’ll tell you what’s walking Salem—-vengeance is walking Salem. We are what we always were in Salem, but now the little crazy children are jangling the keys of the kingdom, and common vengeance writes the law! This warrant’s vengeance!”

It’s sad from reading this thread that it would completely blow so many peoples minds to even FATHOM that there’s another side to the story, or to even FATHOM that not everything you read about or hear is true, or to even really fathom that teenage girls can be vengeful, manipulative and spiteful.

There was a case a few years back in the US where a math teacher failed half of his year 12 class. 7 of the failed students launched sexual assault cases in a vengence attempt against said teacher…it happens.

bromford bromford 12:46 pm 23 Jun 10

I wonder how many people saw “Do we really want to know the grubby details of teen sex?” and clicked the link in order to find out just how grubby those details were.

And that’s the same reason the Canberra Times wrote what they did.

sepi sepi 1:43 pm 21 Jun 10

Peter Hollingsworth had to resign as GG for suggesting that a 13 yr old threw herself at a molesting priest.

And yet still people believe this type of rubbish.

Deadmandrinking Deadmandrinking 10:48 am 21 Jun 10

On RAAF’s argument (which makes me really, really angry, sorry) – he’s forgotten the massive friggin elephant in the room: The girl was 13! She probably looked 13, sounded 13 and thought 13. If that girl ‘threw herself at you’ at age 13 and you went for it, you are most likely a pedophile.

How not to be a pedophile? Don’t sleep with kids. Pretty god-damn basic.

VG, I would refer you to a story about a WA kid who was just recently cleared of rape, after a year in prison. Our legal system is not perfect. Innocent people do sometimes go to jail. I’m not going to comment on a case that involved a completely different legal system to ours, or one that involve trial by an illegal process, but I can pretty much safely say that there are people in jail all around the world who are innocent.

georgesgenitals georgesgenitals 9:41 am 21 Jun 10

LurkerGal said :

I love you VG

Me too. And don’t worry, I’m older than 13.

LurkerGal LurkerGal 10:59 pm 20 Jun 10

I love you VG

vg vg 10:20 am 20 Jun 10

bronte said :

Skidbladnir said :

bronte said :

I realise many people have already made up their minds regarding this man’s guilt…

Bearing in mind that the defendant had also made up his mind regarding guilt, he plead guilty on the 16th, ie: the same day we were all talking about it.

My learned friends in the law profession inform me that a substantial proportion (something like 30%) of defendants that enter a guilty plea are doing so even though they are innocent. Sometimes it is just impossible and impractical to spend more time and money to prove the unprovable. Just sayin’.

That is absolute bollocks, and your friend can’t be too ‘learned’.

There are plenty of ‘innocents’ in prison who, despite the testimony of countless eye witnesses, still profess ‘it wasn’t me’.

The old ‘woe is me, its too expensive to defend’ argument is bollocks. How many QCs did Eastman use whilst living in public housing……oh thats right, he’s innocent as well.

I would be infinitely more experienced in the Court system than your learned friend, and they are talking out their bot bot

WillowJim WillowJim 2:33 am 20 Jun 10

Why do people here assume these stories result in extra newspapers being sold? I doubt even the paper believes that.

Media reports about legal hearings are important, because they are usually the only way the public finds out about trials and decisions. Would you be happy for judges to be accountable to no one other than their peers? Especially the ACT’s judges? I doubt the public eye bothers them, but it’s better than nothing.

As for the level of detail, I think the public should be told enough facts to understand the seriousness of the charge, but no more. I can’t really see how the original story is a step too far, as fewer details could steer readers to what might be called the Captain RAAF position.

vg vg 10:57 pm 19 Jun 10

Schapelle Corby is as guilty as the day is long, and Hicks was caught after attending a terrorist training camp (and admitting such).

It wasn’t Corby protesting her innocence that got her 20 years in a Balinese prison, it was all the dope in her boogie board bag. Their country, their rules. Welcome to 1st grade Schapelle

Special G Special G 8:20 pm 19 Jun 10

dvaey – you’re kidding right? Two shining examples of stand up Australians there. One was found with dope in her boogie board and the other was hanging out in a terrorist training camp.

People who are innocent do fight tooth and nail. Taking a plea on one count of sexual assault when you know you’re guilty of 3 sounds like trying for a discounted sentence rather then an innocent person who has ust given up.

Pull your head out of the sand and smell the bullshit sprinkled on the roses.

sepi sepi 8:05 pm 19 Jun 10

This guy would have a lawyer and/or family members advising him. He is not being bullied by the prosecutor, alone on an oval, or in a car I don’t see any similarities t all between his guilty plea, and his victims being forced by him into doing what he wanted.

I would be amazed if he were innocent. There are multiple victims, telling similar stories, over the course of several years. And he has chosen to plead guilty.

I’m not sure why people here are so keen to tout the possibility of his innocence. Not wanting to believe that this stuff really happens perhaps?

As to preventing these incidents. Perhaps printing the details (or some of the circumstances) warns people of what can happen.

dvaey dvaey 5:36 pm 19 Jun 10

Skidbladnir said :

PS: Can people go and rape mutes? They don’t say no…

Can a mute consent to anything then?

Tooks said :

How many accused of sexual offences plead guilty when they’re innocent?

Youre looking at the specifics too much. The real question should be ‘how many people will plead guilty to a charge in order to get other charges dropped?’. Whether youre pleading guilty to manslaughter to get out of murder, or pleading guilty to one count of sex with a minor, to get out of 2 others and a charge of child pornography.

This person was put in a position like theyre claiming he put the girls in.. either give the authority figure what they want, or risk the unknown (assault in her case, longer jail-time in his case). His life was probably already ruined, even if he’d cleared his name in court, due to the publicity surrounding this case. Publishing all this stuff means no-one comes out a winner, except the newspaper who sold a few more copies, both lives are ruined.

vg said :

Typical of another of the bull shit reasons to try and excuse someone from responsibility. I would fight tooth and nail for my innocence. We’re not talking about someone defending a speeding ticket here. Grow the f up!

One story comes to mind here, remember schapelle corby, kept pleading her innocence, got her 20 years in a dirty prison. David Hicks comes to mind too, tells authority what they want to hear, since he probably figured its better to be thought of as guilty, than risk the worse option.. not all of us have the determination to ‘fight tooth and nail for innocence’, if the options are weighed up. If a person in authority (ie. prosecutor) says ‘plead guilty and get probation, or plead not-guilty and we’ll throw you in jail for 20 years’, its easy to understand what a young boy would do.

vg vg 9:46 am 19 Jun 10

“I’m sorry, i don’t have that information to hand. But i stand by my original comment. If you were in that position (and i hope you never come to be), accused of something that you were unable to prove you had not done, what would you do? Shell out thousands of dollars more to continue to plead your innocence? Or cut your losses and end it with a guilty plea? If this is what has happened, it wouldn’t be the first time in the history of the judicial system.”

Typical of another of the bull shit reasons to try and excuse someone from responsibility. I would fight tooth and nail for my innocence. We’re not talking about someone defending a speeding ticket here. Grow the f up!

The reason he pleaded guilty was because he is guilty. Made even more pertinent because of the way ACT Courts treat people. Pleading guilty in an ACT Court says something

Tooks Tooks 9:36 am 19 Jun 10

How many accused of sexual offences plead guilty when they’re innocent?

I’m sorry, i don’t have that information to hand. But i stand by my original comment. If you were in that position (and i hope you never come to be), accused of something that you were unable to prove you had not done, what would you do?

I would fight it til the very end. You would never get a guilty plea from me in that situation – not in a million years.

Special G’s comment (#73) is spot on, in my opinion.

Special G Special G 8:55 am 19 Jun 10

What a load of crap. Any person claiming innocence and pleading guilty, especially in the ACT Court system, is kidding you.

Some of the comments in relation to treatment of children here are just out of line. 13yr olds are willing to please and like to think they are more mature than they are. This is what can make them prey for older people. This is why there is legislation in place to protect our young people.

Mr Evil Mr Evil 11:52 pm 18 Jun 10

I just hope that Mr Nameless doesn’t run out of excuses to stop Backdoor Bubba in Cellblock 13 from accessing his prostate.

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