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Do we really want to know the grubby details of teen sex?

By johnboy - 16 June 2010 91

The Canberra Times has a highly descriptive story of a former Scout on trial for his alleged sexual engagements with 13-15 year old girls (also involved with scouting) when he was 17-18.

I’ll leave it to the judge to decide just how serious this is.

But as a reader is this the level of detail you want?

(And how do we stop this sort of thing without returning to the days of chaperones?)

Lurid court details of teenage sex

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91 Responses to
Do we really want to know the grubby details of teen sex?
Skidbladnir 11:12 am 16 Jun 10

AngryHenry said :

This guy was a group leader and had a duty of care.

Lets clarify something here.
This accused wasn’t -actually- a group leader, simply in a position of authority by being a Rover in charge of ‘organising a Scouting activity’.

ACT Scouting used to have a policy requiring only group leaders to report suspect child offences, not the Scouting membership themselves.
In November 2009 the policy was updated to include a requirement on every adult Scout to report offences, and included a mandatory requirement on any Venturer or Rover Scout in a position of authority (like taking children on a camp or being Gang Show director, for example) to undergo police checking every three years.

ACT Scouting’s Child Protection Policy document is here

Media coverage (and Stanhope’s nod of approval) of the Policy is here

georgesgenitals 10:59 am 16 Jun 10

The whole point is that these kids aren’t legally old enough to be making these decisions, which is why the responsibility rests with the adult. The behaviour of the child doesn’t change anything.

BimboGeek 10:56 am 16 Jun 10

Our culture is definitely caught up on age, particularly magical barriers at which little princesses become dirty whores, unpolluted children become binge-drinkers, etc.

I first kissed a boy at 13 and he was ~18, it wasn’t abuse, it was just kids smooching. The fact that I didn’t meet anyone I considered f*ckable until I was 17 doesn’t mean my girlfriends were “abused” and I wasn’t, it just means we all had teen sex and started at different ages. One girlfriend had a 25yo boyfriend at 15 and was perfectly capable of handling it, she was just the mature and remarkably well balanced one in our group.

Those kinds of age gaps are often overlooked by police who are just not willing to ruin lives particularly where the parents are the ones doing the complaining and the kids are perfectly happy. They certainly don’t intervene when everyone’s happy.

I know little girls can sometimes regret their actions and I know very well from my own life that sometimes a grown-up can threaten or persuade a girl into doing things that she thinks is wrong and doesn’t want to do. But there’s also a difference between a teacher, adult family member or friend’s parent and another older teenager.

But since I have NFI the details here and it’s none of my business, I’m going to shut up now.

sepi 10:50 am 16 Jun 10

Captain Raaf your comment is so far from reasonable that I don’t know where to start.

But I suggest you stop using phrases like ‘dirty whores’ in conversation with your young daughter about her peers. This will not help her to gain a healthy self esteem as a woman, nor give her a good basis for future relationships – which she will have one day, even if she isn’t interested now.

Woody Mann-Caruso 10:48 am 16 Jun 10

Its not the innocents of the child that is an issue its the actions of the adult. You make me wanta puke.

+100. It doesn’t matter if daddy’s little girl has a voracious sexual appetite and throws herself at you naked and oiled – if you’re an adult, you Walk. The. F*ck. Away.

calla 10:45 am 16 Jun 10

I can’t believe I worked with that guy. He thought he was a real chick magnet. Revolts me!

fgzk 10:42 am 16 Jun 10

Captain RAAF you sound like a paedophile I once new. He said much the same things as you do. Its not the innocents of the child that is an issue its the actions of the adult. You make me wanta puke.

AngryHenry 10:39 am 16 Jun 10

Maybe not all 13 year olds are sweet and innocent Captain RAAF but we as adults should do our best to preserve and protect that innocence. Especially people who are in positions of responsibility such as the accused.

This guy was a group leader and had a duty of care. If the allegations are proven to be true he did the wrong thing and should be punished to the full extent.

Captain RAAF 10:27 am 16 Jun 10

Umm…looks to me like daddy’s little girl (who just happens to have a liking for c#*%) got busted and now in order to salvage some semblance of dignity the family are crying ‘abuse’.

Not all 13 year old girls are sweet and innocent, in fact from what my 12 year old daughter tells me a lot of them are dirty whores who like nothing more than to conduct the very same activities outlined in that article.

Sorry people, the world has changed and a lot less of our young girls are all sugar and spice and everything nice.

As soon as I read that the ‘victims’ went back again and again, accepted colourful dildo’s and were sending pictures of their naked boobies to this bloke, they lost all credibility. The mere mention of boobs, sex and boy’s doodles send my 12 year old daughter into shock, and that, peoples, is what should constitute a notmal reaction from a girl of that age, not what these girls were up to.

Skidbladnir 10:27 am 16 Jun 10

Well, the defendant is currently going unnanmed in the media due to a blip in the ACT laws.
Maybe the CT is trying to highlight this?
The writing of this piece does nothing to achieve that outcome, though…

For those who are actually involved with Scouting it isn’t uncommon knowledge of who this person is, but for those not, Mr Unnamed, but was fairly active in a leadership role (up until he got charged), and was in a position of power thanks to his involvement with the .
He was over 18 at the time most of the offences occurred, but due to some occurring when he was 17, he is protected by the ACT’s child protection laws.
Why this wasn’t broken down into two seperate cases, one on the child-protected incidences I don’t know, I’m no lawyer.

Story published 16 Jun, 2010…
…The 23-year-old, who has pleaded not guilty… (So born 1987)
…Prosecutor Chris Todd said that in September 2004, the man and 13-year-old ”AB” went to a mutual friend’s birthday party….allegedly went into the bedroom in which the girl was sleeping, then went with her to another room and had sex. (So, was 17yrs old at the time this occurred)
…The next year, when the girl was 14, the man allegedly drove her from her school to a Scout hall where they had sex. (So, now legally an adult.)
The court heard that the man met his second alleged victim, “CD”, in 2006 during a Scouting activity in which he played an organisational role. (So, now 18 or 19)

CD said in pre-recorded video evidence that the man later contacted her to ”catch up” and that in January 2007 (So, when 19-20yo)he arranged to meet her at her local shops after work.
He allegedly drove the then 15-year-old to a nearby oval and asked her to perform oral sex. “He asked me… as he was pulling his pants down”…
“I said that no, I didn’t really want to… but he kept encouraging me to do it and wouldn’t take no for an answer. In the end I …gave in … and proceeded to give him oral sex.”

A third alleged victim, ”EF”, said in her pre-recorded video evidence that the man befriended her during a Scouting activity in 2007 (So when 19-20yo) and supported her through an emotional period.
The teenager told the court she was 15 when he gave her a purple vibrator in the car park of her local Scout hall and suggested it would help relieve her stress. At his request, she photographed her naked breasts and sent him the image via mobile phone.
…a 2007 search of his home found images of children engaged in sexual acts. (So while 20)

This isn’t the kind of person you want to have walking around, given that as an adult he used his position of influence to get amongst a crowd of young girls, as an adult didn’t accept that No Means No, and as an adult has since had two further victims beyond his ‘childhood’ crimes.
They also caught him (as an adult) with child pronography.
This person, due to a slight overlap with childhood on one of his cases, is being given the full benefits of the children’s court system, in that he’s not undergoing any of the kind of public scrutiny normally focussed on accused adult sex offenders in this town.

Interestingly, despite this, thanks to our child-protection laws, the Canberra Times has previously published Mr Non-Disclosure’s name, and still do on their website under a different headline. I have previously point this out to them, to no action from the CT Online Editor.
(The ABC Online Editor once gave me a nice apology when I pointed out that they had disclosed his name, Jb may have a copy of it somewhere…)
Its also up on the Court List today, if you’re interested or know who to look for.

georgesgenitals 10:17 am 16 Jun 10

But as a reader is this the level of detail you want?


R. Slicker 10:16 am 16 Jun 10

The Crimes seems to delight in reporting pedophilia cases in fine detail, usually on the front page. I think it gives them some kind of perverse thrill. In any case I became sexually active when I was 13 and in almost all cases it was with people in their late teens and 20s. That was in the 1970s before this “new morality” took hold. I’m not trying to defend pedophilia at all, but I am what is nowadays called “a victim” and it didn’t harm me at all, in fact I loved every minute of it.

dvaey 9:58 am 16 Jun 10

LurkerGal said :

As someone who has held at least 2 of the victims while they cried and screamed after this happened, I didn’t want to read it.

Isnt this about as stupid as someone who has a family member die publically, coming on here to berate media and riot-act posters for providing too much detail? I mean, you know the seriousness of the crime, why go and read it? Especially with a lead-up and a poll asking how much detail is okay.

LurkerGal said :

Also, it IS serious. 11 year old girl and 20 year old man? Especially one in a position of “power”? That’s freaking serious.

Did we read the same article? You get 20/11 and I get 17/13, or is the CT stretching ages now to make stories appear more sensational?

Also, while these types of stories are horrible for all those involved, I would like to point out the few keywords from OP, namely ‘trial’ and ‘alleged’. The guy on trial should at least be able to go before the courts, before everyone forms an opinion on one newspaper article.. then again, this IS the riot act, so since when has that ever happened?

Woody Mann-Caruso 9:55 am 16 Jun 10

I’ll take ‘required her to perform a sex act’ over the f*cking colour of the vibrator, thanks.

LurkerGal 9:37 am 16 Jun 10

(coming out of retirement to post).

As someone who has held at least 2 of the victims while they cried and screamed after this happened, I didn’t want to read it. Their families didn’t want to read it. They have all been through so much, seeing it on the front page of the Canberra times is not productive for anyone.

But you will be pleased to know that much was actually not reported (because so much was far far worse).

Also, it IS serious. 11 year old girl and 20 year old man? Especially one in a position of “power”? That’s freaking serious.

Sorry, for the emotive post. This is close to home.

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