18 March 2012

Do you know this alleged rapist?

| johnboy
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alleged rapist

ACT Policing is seeking the public’s assistance in identifying the man in the image who is alleged to have sexually assaulted a 27-year-old woman in the early hours of Saturday morning (March 17).

Between 3 and 4 am the woman was walking back to her apartment on Northbourne Avenue from the CBD when she was approached by the man on Mort Street.

The man engaged in conversation with the woman, seeking her assistance to a matter. The woman allowed the man into her apartment where he has then sexually assaulted her.

The alleged offender is described as being Caucasian in appearance, approximately 183 cm (6’) tall, with short hair and of an average build. He was wearing a red short sleeved T-shirt and blue jeans.

Anyone who may be able to assist with the identity of the man or can assist with the investigation is urged to contact Crime Stoppers on 1800 333 000, or via www.act.crimestoppers.com.au. Information can be provided anonymously.

alleged rapistalleged rapist

[Courtesy ACT Policing]

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gooterz said :

In his defence though.. it is only alleged and from the pics it looks like hes holding her hand on one photo and shes grabbing his arse in another….

I don’t agree – it’s all in the angle of the photos. In the first photo, it just so happens that she is possibly to the side and half a step behind him, and just happened to be swinging her arm. In the second photo, they aren’t actually holding hands. His hand is in the fore front, hiding her hand (and her fingers aren’t clasping his hand).
If the photos hadn’t been cropped where they were, it would be more noticeable that there is not, in fact, any contact.

HenryBG said :

57. An “expert” witness also told a court that the carpet glue in Lindy Chamberlain’s car was definitely foetal blood. You can find an “expert” witness to tell almost anything you want.
s.

I don’t know where you got this idea. An ‘expert’ witness is usually a member of a forensics team (there are others, but they wouldn’t be involved in this instance), who analyze information (DNA, voice recordings, fingerprints etc.), often without even knowing names or details of the case. They are about as unbiased as you can get.

And once again, I am astounded by how many people *know* exactly what occurred. I wish I were an all-knowing being like all of you.

UPDATE: Win News reported tonight that Police have identified the man in the pictures above however “inquiries are ongoing.”

Again, non of us knows what exactly went on, but it sounds based on that as if, either there’s a lack of evidence resulting in the unfortunate “he said, she said” stalemate, or there might be more to this. Time will tell.

kateorman said :

I didn’t bring up this case, but I do think it’s relevant, because of the scepticism shown in this discussion towards a rape victim – based not on facts, but prejudice about what must have happened.

Not a shade on the prejudice from those who clearly think that the penalty for an unproven rape should be brutal murder.

kateorman said :

Here’s the actual judgement from that Telopea Park case:

http://www.courts.act.gov.au/supreme/judgment/view/3900/title/r-v-sc

This spells out the evidence. If you haven’t got time to read it all, skip to points 57 and 76-77.

I didn’t bring up this case, but I do think it’s relevant, because of the scepticism shown in this discussion towards a rape victim – based not on facts, but prejudice about what must have happened. That’s scarily similar to the willingness to just make up a story about the alleged rape we’re discussing.

57. An “expert” witness also told a court that the carpet glue in Lindy Chamberlain’s car was definitely foetal blood. You can find an “expert” witness to tell almost anything you want.

75-76. So what? She took a knife and then lured a drunk bloke she didn’t know into Telopea Park.

I notice no mention of her notebook/diary. Did the jury not find what she had written in it interesting? Or were they not given it?
You also don’t point to any evidence of her having rung a friend and boasted about having “almost been raped last night”, on the very day of her luring of the drunk bloke into the park. Did the jury even get to hear this?
I’ve also heard of something called “proportionate force”. Did the judge explain this concept to the jury before asking their opinion?
Did he not point out to them that the killing blow, clearly administered from behind while the victim was lying prone was not what we call a defensive blow in any way shape or form?

Nope. She got away with a (long-premeditated) murder. Typical legal system shenanigans.

legal_chick863:49 pm 02 Apr 12

I-filed said :

TheDancingDjinn said :

Why does his shirt have to say that!!!! – i don’t want to be the person who makes this joke man

If it’s a rape joke, don’t make it.

+1

colourful sydney racing identity3:03 pm 20 Mar 12

kateorman said :

Here’s the actual judgement from that Telopea Park case:

http://www.courts.act.gov.au/supreme/judgment/view/3900/title/r-v-sc

This spells out the evidence. If you haven’t got time to read it all, skip to points 57 and 76-77.

I didn’t bring up this case, but I do think it’s relevant, because of the scepticism shown in this discussion towards a rape victim – based not on facts, but prejudice about what must have happened. That’s scarily similar to the willingness to just make up a story about the alleged rape we’re discussing.

Thanks for posting that.

Here’s the actual judgement from that Telopea Park case:

http://www.courts.act.gov.au/supreme/judgment/view/3900/title/r-v-sc

This spells out the evidence. If you haven’t got time to read it all, skip to points 57 and 76-77.

I didn’t bring up this case, but I do think it’s relevant, because of the scepticism shown in this discussion towards a rape victim – based not on facts, but prejudice about what must have happened. That’s scarily similar to the willingness to just make up a story about the alleged rape we’re discussing.

You were right and I was wrong, colourful. 🙂

kateorman said :

HenryBG said :

My initial reaction to that particular insanity was Good Grief! However, I then recalled a recent instance where a woman armed herself with a knife and then lured a drunk into Telopea Park where she stabbed him to death (in the back) in a particularly brutal fashion and then got off scot-free by claiming “he raped me”.

I guess you’re referring to the woman who was recently found not guilty of murder by a judge and jury who had all the facts (and not a garbled version of half-remembered news reports):

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-02-28/woman-acquitted-of-chefs-murder/1960346

I think I take their version of events more seriously than yours, mate!

You mean you will take a questionable version as the truth? The controvertial decision made by Justice Higgins so this “hard done by” individual can be back on our streets was the final straw for me. He needs to be retired as he is becoming known as “Good old Uncle Terry” to some of these shits.

Personally i hope she gets what coming to her and she gets hit by a truck or worse as she played the rape card when it was obvious that there was more going on than what she admitted and there was some premeditation on her part, why carry the knives? She killed someone and got off scott free by claiming just about everything that she could.

Secondly, this is off the track as it is a completely different case.

kateorman said :

DUB said :

There is one scheme becoming more and more popular […] He refused to pay, she then threatens to report him for rape.

Any evidence that this “scheme” is “becoming more and more popular”? A study, a news item, anything? Or is it just more baseless gossip passed around to help discredit women who report rape?

LOL
No one here knows the full story, you seem to believe that guy is guilty, I, on another hand, do not think either of them is guilty, as we do not know all the facts. Both innocent.
You don’t think that detectives will be investigating only two leads, based on ” he said/she said”?

This is typical of a man-hater feminist behaviour to jump with a phrase about attempts to discredit women by men.
🙂
My theory is that he is gay, just wanted to try a woman, and proved himself wrong.
Canberra…. hom

colourful sydney racing identity said :

It is a disgraceful troll

You know, I don’t think so! There are so many men (and women!) who buy into myths about rape. That’s not surprising when those myths get repeated over and over again, whether in the news or in a forum like this! That’s why it’s so important to challenge the myth that women frequently go to the police with made up rape stories. There’s just no evidence that this happens often, let alone increasingly.

colourful sydney racing identity11:29 am 20 Mar 12

kateorman said :

DUB said :

There is one scheme becoming more and more popular […] He refused to pay, she then threatens to report him for rape.

Any evidence that this “scheme” is “becoming more and more popular”? A study, a news item, anything? Or is it just more baseless gossip passed around to help discredit women who report rape?

Of course not. It is a disgraceful troll, that someone thinks it okay to make such stupid comments about an alleged rape, actually sickens me.

DUB said :

There is one scheme becoming more and more popular […] He refused to pay, she then threatens to report him for rape.

Any evidence that this “scheme” is “becoming more and more popular”? A study, a news item, anything? Or is it just more baseless gossip passed around to help discredit women who report rape?

HenryBG said :

My initial reaction to that particular insanity was Good Grief! However, I then recalled a recent instance where a woman armed herself with a knife and then lured a drunk into Telopea Park where she stabbed him to death (in the back) in a particularly brutal fashion and then got off scot-free by claiming “he raped me”.

I guess you’re referring to the woman who was recently found not guilty of murder by a judge and jury who had all the facts (and not a garbled version of half-remembered news reports):

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-02-28/woman-acquitted-of-chefs-murder/1960346

I think I take their version of events more seriously than yours, mate!

Some of the people commenting on this thread have really ugly minds. I particularly like the use of cheery emoticons when we’re dealing with this topic; as if it’s all a wacky little joke, equivalent say, to locking your keys in the car or forgetting your own phone number.

devils_advocate10:52 am 20 Mar 12

Further to the comments re: making the public less willing to help strangers in need, I think the answer differs depending on the gender of the person being asked for assistance.

This is both in terms of the risk of some kind of ulterior motive being present, as well as the prospect of the potential victim being able to defend themselves.

As a male, the risks for me in terms of putting myself in isolation with a stranger are far less than for a female. Even so I’d think twice if the dude was like twice as big as me or something.

colourful sydney racing identity10:47 am 20 Mar 12

DUB said :

My two cents worth :):

What if he, POSSIBLY, refused to pay for sex, after she ‘d hit him with that request after the act?

Jesus christ, a woman alleges she was raped and you dog whistle that she is a prostitute?

F*** man I hope you don’t have daughters, sisters, female friends or a mother.

DUB said :

My two cents worth :):

What if he, POSSIBLY, refused to pay for sex, after she ‘d hit him with that request after the act?
There is one scheme becoming more and more popular ,….

My initial reaction to that particular insanity was Good Grief! However, I then recalled a recent instance where a woman armed herself with a knife and then lured a drunk into Telopea Park where she stabbed him to death (in the back) in a particularly brutal fashion and then got off scot-free by claiming “he raped me”.

TY TheDancingDjinn, I was just writing about the way things can get done
JB- sorry for being offtopic.
The face looks like someone who came here on Grad Employment. Try Finance. 🙂

TheDancingDjinn10:21 am 20 Mar 12

DUB said :

@TheDancingDjinn- the point is that you can make more money by framing someone, demand 800 bucks for average sex after it had happened, do you follow the line? It’s not about “prostitution is legal here”. Guy refuses- stakes go higher, he will now be up for few K. Don’t be naive. 😉

Don’t be nieve? – don’t be so paranoid. The tin foil doesn’t match your shoes.

@TheDancingDjinn- the point is that you can make more money by framing someone, demand 800 bucks for average sex after it had happened, do you follow the line? It’s not about “prostitution is legal here”. Guy refuses- stakes go higher, he will now be up for few K. Don’t be naive. 😉

Let’s move back ontopic please people.

TheDancingDjinn10:02 am 20 Mar 12

DUB said :

My two cents worth :):

What if he, POSSIBLY, refused to pay for sex, after she ‘d hit him with that request after the act?
There is one scheme becoming more and more popular , I am sure that authorities are aware of this.
The following scenario is NOT about the described event, just description of a scam:

Guy seems to have “scored” on Saturday night, goes to her place, they have sex, she then demands several hundred dollars for all the fun, when initially everything indicated it will be just free one-night stand.He refused to pay, she then threatens to report him for rape.Guy leaves, now, alleged rape gets reported.

When he gets caught and investigations take place, that is a big deal, there is one way for him to end this ordeal quickly- she will now privately demand several thousands of dollars to drop that case. And he will pay up.Or else- police custody, months , or even years of legal fights to clear his name… After all, that girl more likely has documented evidence that she had sex with him.Hard to prove you did not rape her.

If he refused to pay, then isn’t that theft? or apropriation of goods via deciet? – if he did in fact refuse to pay then charge him for that, prostitution is legal here, he should have to pay like all the sweaty, hairybacked men that frquent those establishments too.

I really hope he did something, by putting his pic up online so many people now know what he looks like – if he didn’t do anything someone could just as well hurt him when they believe he did.

My two cents worth :):

What if he, POSSIBLY, refused to pay for sex, after she ‘d hit him with that request after the act?
There is one scheme becoming more and more popular , I am sure that authorities are aware of this.
The following scenario is NOT about the described event, just description of a scam:

Guy seems to have “scored” on Saturday night, goes to her place, they have sex, she then demands several hundred dollars for all the fun, when initially everything indicated it will be just free one-night stand.He refused to pay, she then threatens to report him for rape.Guy leaves, now, alleged rape gets reported.

When he gets caught and investigations take place, that is a big deal, there is one way for him to end this ordeal quickly- she will now privately demand several thousands of dollars to drop that case. And he will pay up.Or else- police custody, months , or even years of legal fights to clear his name… After all, that girl more likely has documented evidence that she had sex with him.Hard to prove you did not rape her.

TheDancingDjinn said :

chilli said :

So, all you fellas who think that there’s something a bit sus going on with this girl’s story …

Imagine you – yep, a nice bloke like you – is stuck on Mort St at 3am one Saturday morning, flat battery in the car, flat battery in the mobile, no working public phones available, no money in your pocket, no one around, and home is a long, long walk away.

And you see a girl walking down the street (who may or may not have been drinking – walking around at 3am is not prima facie evidence of inebriation – hell, you’re there, right, trying to drive your car?), and so you call out to her “hey, I’m in a bit of trouble, here, can I use your phone?”

According to you guys, her absolutely correct reaction, if she’s a truly virtuous woman, would be to start screaming “F**k off rapist, leave me alone” at the top of her lungs? Because EVERYONE knows that only a stupid woman would talk to a bloke in the street at 3am.

Which wouldn’t be very pleasant for you, someone who just needed a bit of help.

But let’s say she didn’t know the rules. Maybe she was just a nice person. And she said that her mobile wasn’t working and you could use her phone in her apartment up the road.

What would you do at this point, a nice bloke like you? Do you think how lucky you are to find someone who’s willing to help you – a stranger – out?

Or do you think, what a stupid bitch, she must be gagging for it? Why else would she be walking around at that hour (even if she lived there)?

And honestly, fellas, if you think the above scenario is speculative, it’s no more so than your armchair-detective attempts to see this woman as a wanton, arse-grabbing, handholding, drunken liar.

Only difference is that in my scenario, you guys are the dickheads, not her.

+ 1

btw, if you click on that Wikipedia link, you’ll learn that the 8% figure is not, as gooterz claims, the percentage of rape reports which are malicious lies – but that it’s “almost meaningless”. Lots of people believe that women frequently make false rape reports to the police, but it’s a myth for which there’s no evidence. That myth helps keep rapists safe.

As one researcher says: “Ironically, the preoccupation with false rape allegations increases our collective vulnerability. It serves to further undermine the criminal justice response to rape, thereby permitting serial rapists—who commit the vast majority of rapes—to continue preying on the vulnerable.” – http://vaw.sagepub.com/content/16/12/1372

A bunch of relevant statistics here:
http://kateorman.livejournal.com/tag/women%20tell%20the%20truth

gooterz said :

HenryBG said :

So many people have an unerring need to blame the victim – remember Lindy Chamberlain and Joanne Lees.

Alledged victim, until proven otherwise.

Also the figure of 8% as quoted earlier is what i understand as the number of cases where it can be proved with some degree of merit the victim was knowing giving false evidence to get their alleged attacker into trouble. This neglects all the cases where there is no evidence to proove that no rape occured or where the alleged victim thought she was raped but by definition of rape actually wasnt.

Alleged offender, until proved otherwise.

TheDancingDjinn said :

chilli said :

So, all you fellas who think that there’s something a bit sus going on with this girl’s story …

Imagine you – yep, a nice bloke like you – is stuck on Mort St at 3am one Saturday morning, flat battery in the car, flat battery in the mobile, no working public phones available, no money in your pocket, no one around, and home is a long, long walk away.

And you see a girl walking down the street (who may or may not have been drinking – walking around at 3am is not prima facie evidence of inebriation – hell, you’re there, right, trying to drive your car?), and so you call out to her “hey, I’m in a bit of trouble, here, can I use your phone?”

According to you guys, her absolutely correct reaction, if she’s a truly virtuous woman, would be to start screaming “F**k off rapist, leave me alone” at the top of her lungs? Because EVERYONE knows that only a stupid woman would talk to a bloke in the street at 3am.

Which wouldn’t be very pleasant for you, someone who just needed a bit of help.

But let’s say she didn’t know the rules. Maybe she was just a nice person. And she said that her mobile wasn’t working and you could use her phone in her apartment up the road.

What would you do at this point, a nice bloke like you? Do you think how lucky you are to find someone who’s willing to help you – a stranger – out?

Or do you think, what a stupid bitch, she must be gagging for it? Why else would she be walking around at that hour (even if she lived there)?

And honestly, fellas, if you think the above scenario is speculative, it’s no more so than your armchair-detective attempts to see this woman as a wanton, arse-grabbing, handholding, drunken liar.

Only difference is that in my scenario, you guys are the dickheads, not her.

What?

This post is simply saying that there are lots of scenarios that could have occurred, and maybe we should wait until we have more information before getting tooo cranky.

At least, that’s how I read it.

Whether or not this man is guilty of the alleged crime is a decision for a jury. They’ll have all the facts – not just a few stills from CCTV camera footage, an extremely vague outline of the alleged events, and a bushel of myths, stereotypes, and jumped-to conclusions. You don’t know when or where that camera footage was taken, or who the other person is. You have no idea why she let him into her flat – was she was naive? Intoxicated? Tricked? Frightened? Did she know him? Was she young or elderly? Was she injured? You have _absolutely no idea_. Stop filling in the blanks with your guesses and assumptions. (That goes for people who assume he’s guilty, too.)

TheDancingDjinn said :

chilli said :

So, all you fellas who think that there’s something a bit sus going on with this girl’s story …

Imagine you – yep, a nice bloke like you – is stuck on Mort St at 3am one Saturday morning, flat battery in the car, flat battery in the mobile, no working public phones available, no money in your pocket, no one around, and home is a long, long walk away.

And you see a girl walking down the street (who may or may not have been drinking – walking around at 3am is not prima facie evidence of inebriation – hell, you’re there, right, trying to drive your car?), and so you call out to her “hey, I’m in a bit of trouble, here, can I use your phone?”

According to you guys, her absolutely correct reaction, if she’s a truly virtuous woman, would be to start screaming “F**k off rapist, leave me alone” at the top of her lungs? Because EVERYONE knows that only a stupid woman would talk to a bloke in the street at 3am.

Which wouldn’t be very pleasant for you, someone who just needed a bit of help.

But let’s say she didn’t know the rules. Maybe she was just a nice person. And she said that her mobile wasn’t working and you could use her phone in her apartment up the road.

What would you do at this point, a nice bloke like you? Do you think how lucky you are to find someone who’s willing to help you – a stranger – out?

Or do you think, what a stupid bitch, she must be gagging for it? Why else would she be walking around at that hour (even if she lived there)?

And honestly, fellas, if you think the above scenario is speculative, it’s no more so than your armchair-detective attempts to see this woman as a wanton, arse-grabbing, handholding, drunken liar.

Only difference is that in my scenario, you guys are the dickheads, not her.

What?

That’s what I thought. At first I thought I was stupid, then I realised it wasn’t me.

TheDancingDjinn said :

What?

I don’t even think TheDancingDjinn knows whats going on in that one!

TheDancingDjinn12:18 am 20 Mar 12

chilli said :

So, all you fellas who think that there’s something a bit sus going on with this girl’s story …

Imagine you – yep, a nice bloke like you – is stuck on Mort St at 3am one Saturday morning, flat battery in the car, flat battery in the mobile, no working public phones available, no money in your pocket, no one around, and home is a long, long walk away.

And you see a girl walking down the street (who may or may not have been drinking – walking around at 3am is not prima facie evidence of inebriation – hell, you’re there, right, trying to drive your car?), and so you call out to her “hey, I’m in a bit of trouble, here, can I use your phone?”

According to you guys, her absolutely correct reaction, if she’s a truly virtuous woman, would be to start screaming “F**k off rapist, leave me alone” at the top of her lungs? Because EVERYONE knows that only a stupid woman would talk to a bloke in the street at 3am.

Which wouldn’t be very pleasant for you, someone who just needed a bit of help.

But let’s say she didn’t know the rules. Maybe she was just a nice person. And she said that her mobile wasn’t working and you could use her phone in her apartment up the road.

What would you do at this point, a nice bloke like you? Do you think how lucky you are to find someone who’s willing to help you – a stranger – out?

Or do you think, what a stupid bitch, she must be gagging for it? Why else would she be walking around at that hour (even if she lived there)?

And honestly, fellas, if you think the above scenario is speculative, it’s no more so than your armchair-detective attempts to see this woman as a wanton, arse-grabbing, handholding, drunken liar.

Only difference is that in my scenario, you guys are the dickheads, not her.

What?

Agree with Johnboy in #1 – a foul crime that could also have a damaging effect on people helping a stranger if it’s late at night and they’re alone.

Some of the foul comments on this story are also likely to make some people very uncomfortable about wanting to participate in online discussion here.

So, all you fellas who think that there’s something a bit sus going on with this girl’s story …

Imagine you – yep, a nice bloke like you – is stuck on Mort St at 3am one Saturday morning, flat battery in the car, flat battery in the mobile, no working public phones available, no money in your pocket, no one around, and home is a long, long walk away.

And you see a girl walking down the street (who may or may not have been drinking – walking around at 3am is not prima facie evidence of inebriation – hell, you’re there, right, trying to drive your car?), and so you call out to her “hey, I’m in a bit of trouble, here, can I use your phone?”

According to you guys, her absolutely correct reaction, if she’s a truly virtuous woman, would be to start screaming “F**k off rapist, leave me alone” at the top of her lungs? Because EVERYONE knows that only a stupid woman would talk to a bloke in the street at 3am.

Which wouldn’t be very pleasant for you, someone who just needed a bit of help.

But let’s say she didn’t know the rules. Maybe she was just a nice person. And she said that her mobile wasn’t working and you could use her phone in her apartment up the road.

What would you do at this point, a nice bloke like you? Do you think how lucky you are to find someone who’s willing to help you – a stranger – out?

Or do you think, what a stupid bitch, she must be gagging for it? Why else would she be walking around at that hour (even if she lived there)?

And honestly, fellas, if you think the above scenario is speculative, it’s no more so than your armchair-detective attempts to see this woman as a wanton, arse-grabbing, handholding, drunken liar.

Only difference is that in my scenario, you guys are the dickheads, not her.

chewy14 said :

HenryBG said :

So many people have an unerring need to blame the victim – remember Lindy Chamberlain and Joanne Lees.

Whatever it is you think you would hypothetically do if somebody asked you for help at 4am is entirely irrelevant to the facts in this case, whatever they may be.

Uninformed speculation is unlikely to cover you in glory where a crime like this is involved.

What, like you just did?

I don’t see any speculation, informed or otherwise, in the post you quoted.

I’m no polyglot, so perhaps someone can help. In what language is “gooterz” the word for “Mr Gillespie”?

HenryBG said :

So many people have an unerring need to blame the victim – remember Lindy Chamberlain and Joanne Lees.

Alledged victim, until proven otherwise.

Also the figure of 8% as quoted earlier is what i understand as the number of cases where it can be proved with some degree of merit the victim was knowing giving false evidence to get their alleged attacker into trouble. This neglects all the cases where there is no evidence to proove that no rape occured or where the alleged victim thought she was raped but by definition of rape actually wasnt.

TheDancingDjinn said :

Why does his shirt have to say that!!!! – i don’t want to be the person who makes this joke man

Don’t worry, it’s the first word that came into my head when I saw the shirt too.

I have done some silly/unsafe things while drunk, but I would never invite a random into my house. I’m not blaming the victim – I’m actually a little frustrated that she didn’t know better. Scum like this come in all shapes and forms – not all look like some gang member hiding in a dark alleyway with a knife. You just never know!

I’m really curious about the excuse he made up. It must have been good, because most situations such as him losing his phone/money could be solved by using her phone and not needing to go in the flat at all.

steveu said :

Darkfalz said :

What person in this day and age lets some drunk stranger they met 5 minutes ago into their apartment in the early hours of the morning? That being said unless it’s obviously baseless, the police need to take a complainant’s word in good faith and act upon it – this is not proof of guilt though, this is up to the courts to decide if it goes that far.

This.

That.

HenryBG said :

So many people have an unerring need to blame the victim – remember Lindy Chamberlain and Joanne Lees.

Whatever it is you think you would hypothetically do if somebody asked you for help at 4am is entirely irrelevant to the facts in this case, whatever they may be.

Uninformed speculation is unlikely to cover you in glory where a crime like this is involved.

Probably best at this stage to only speculate on the question asked by AFP/RiotACT, being the identity of the suspect pictured?

After some due process ascertaining facts, we go to town on whoever is the victim/perpetrator.

HenryBG said :

So many people have an unerring need to blame the victim – remember Lindy Chamberlain and Joanne Lees.

Whatever it is you think you would hypothetically do if somebody asked you for help at 4am is entirely irrelevant to the facts in this case, whatever they may be.

Uninformed speculation is unlikely to cover you in glory where a crime like this is involved.

What, like you just did?

So many people have an unerring need to blame the victim – remember Lindy Chamberlain and Joanne Lees.

Whatever it is you think you would hypothetically do if somebody asked you for help at 4am is entirely irrelevant to the facts in this case, whatever they may be.

Uninformed speculation is unlikely to cover you in glory where a crime like this is involved.

My thoughts after reading the MR and the comments:
– I am way more relaxed about ‘stranger danger’ than most people, but to let some total stranger into your Northbourne flat at 3am shows very poor judgement – even when you’re drunk.
– Reckless behaviour is in no way an invitation for sexual assault
– It is “alleged rape” until the police can question this guy and the court has given their verdict.
– If it is true that they are holding hands and therfor were in some sort of a relationship that doesn’t make any difference as to the accusation of sexual assault.
– However, then the woman’s police statement was obviously incorrect. But that can only be verified by the police when they interview him and/or any witnesses
– If he was innocent, you would’ve expected him to have contacted the police by now. But then, maybe he is interstate, or still recovering from his hangover, or just never watches or listens to the local news.

And thanks to the person who found the stats on ‘unfound accusations’ in rape cases. I never knew that and it is interesting to get some perspective.

It is awful that things like this happen, but why would you invite a stranger into your house, unless they were fatally injured and needed an ambulance? I don’t care what they need, they’d be waiting on the doorstep. Rape could have well been the least of her problems! I hope the girl is not scared from this experience in helping people, but it is a good leeson on how horrible some people can be unfortunatly 🙁

c_c said :

White shoes, pink shirt, balding with sideburns… sometimes you can tell a book by its cover.

Ha! While I don’t own a pink shirt with Rapen on it, I sometimes wear white shoes with my sideburns… I wonder what you judge from that cover.

– I also, sometimes, whistle while I walk, over to you.

qbninthecity9:48 am 19 Mar 12

sepi said :

Honestly. If a woman had slept with someone and then regretted it in the morning, she would shut up about it and tell noone. the very last thing she would do is to ring the police, claim it was rape and alert the media to tell everyone she had slept with a creep.

Logically that idea makes no sense whatsoever.

agreed.

meanwhile this just reinforces to me that driving or taking a cab to and from home in braddon is the only option on a night out

Honestly. If a woman had slept with someone and then regretted it in the morning, she would shut up about it and tell noone. the very last thing she would do is to ring the police, claim it was rape and alert the media to tell everyone she had slept with a creep.

Logically that idea makes no sense whatsoever.

What kind of person in this day and age makes friends with a woman walking home, makes up a sob story to get inside her home and then rapes her?

Darkfalz said :

What person in this day and age lets some drunk stranger they met 5 minutes ago into their apartment in the early hours of the morning? That being said unless it’s obviously baseless, the police need to take a complainant’s word in good faith and act upon it – this is not proof of guilt though, this is up to the courts to decide if it goes that far.

This.

gooterz said :

In his defence though.. it is only alleged and from the pics it looks like hes holding her hand on one photo and shes grabbing his arse in another….

I am confused by this comment (and reading more of your comments I am worried that you seem to have a lot of strange ideas about what women go through during and after an assault) however, this actual comment shows you have managed to put things in the photos that may not be there.
Yes the photos show another person next to the suspect but it is not clear that they are holding hands or even that the other person is a women. The CCTV images may not show him with her – it could have been prior to them meeting and she has been shown them for identification.
Let’s say the other arm in the photos does belong to the victim, I am not convinced they are holding hands or that the other photo shows his arse is being touched – I am amazed you can jump to all these conclusions by the photos shown. I think you should be very careful when commenting on a public forum about things that are only in your head.

Wow,
So many people here with in depth knowledge to what happened in this case.

How about you wait until they bring the guy in, question him, maybe charge him and then you know, like have a trial or something.

I-filed said :

gooterz I think it might be wise to remind you at this juncture, that even if all of what you are positing happened on the night, it is still out-and-out rape to persist with sexual intercourse if the other person has changed their mind – even in the middle of the act. Just in case you aren’t aware of this when you next accompany someone home.

Ah, give him a break. While this is not the thread to start assuming suggesting all women make these thing up (many do, many don’t), all he’s saying is that her story may not be matching what we are seeing in the photos (as the reporter of the alleged crime, she may have been unaware they had CCTV of them together in the lobby).

What person in this day and age lets some drunk stranger they met 5 minutes ago into their apartment in the early hours of the morning? That being said unless it’s obviously baseless, the police need to take a complainant’s word in good faith and act upon it – this is not proof of guilt though, this is up to the courts to decide if it goes that far.

gooterz said :

“The man engaged in conversation with the woman, seeking her assistance to a matter. “

M Rose said :

gooterz said :

In his defence though.. it is only alleged and from the pics it looks like hes holding her hand on one photo and shes grabbing his arse in another….

Umm? Alleged sexual assault can be alleged sexual assault even if the victim once (allegedly) held their attackers hand or allowed them to touch them. I’m pretty sure you know this, maybe just have a quick re-think.

It doesnt add up to what she said was the reason he came in.

Also for the record.. there is no mention of rape either. Sexual assult could be as little as getting the wrong message and touching her.

Actually it can’t.

You’ll find sexual offenses in Part 3 of the Crimes Act 1900 (ACT). Sections 51-53 are sexual assault provisions (varying degrees of harm or threat of harm with intent to have sexual intercourse) and section 54 contains sexual intercourse without consent.

Sexual Intercourse for the purposes for part 3 is found in section 50 and in short hand requires penetration by person or object or oral sex. (http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/act/consol_act/ca190082/s50.html#sexual_intercourse)

So legally, we’re not talking about “little as getting the wrong message and touching her” here.

Putting that to one side I’d really like to know where the you get the impression that “time and time again” women are claiming that their one-night-stands are rapists? You’ve posited one case as evidence against all sexual assaults?

In fact, the very opposite is true. It is due to the victim-blaming and stigma attached to sexual assault victims by comments like yours that rape is heinously under-reported. I can’t lay my hands on Australian statistics without research I unfortunately don’t have time for, but a quick scan of wikipedia on this topic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics#Under-_and_over-reporting) will give you English and US statistics in which studies have found some 75-95% of rapes go unreported where as, at most, 8% of rapes in the US are found to be “unfounded” which doesn’t mean they are false but rather, difficult to prove (for instance, marital rape.)

Anyway, I hope I’ve done something to try and encourage you to re-educate yourself on this topic. Or at very least take @john84’s advice and stop participating in victim-blaming behaviour.

gooterz I think it might be wise to remind you at this juncture, that even if all of what you are positing happened on the night, it is still out-and-out rape to persist with sexual intercourse if the other person has changed their mind – even in the middle of the act. Just in case you aren’t aware of this when you next accompany someone home.

Just waiting for Gooterz to claim the CCTV pics of the guy that hit the girl in the face with a chair at Transit Bar recently was provoked by her or did it in self defense…

Anyway, I hope they locate this guy (and the chair guy) very soon.

White shoes, pink shirt, balding with sideburns… sometimes you can tell a book by its cover.

johnboy said :

Got something you need to tell the police gooterz?
It’s highly unlikely they’d have published the CCTV images unless the crime was serious.

I would believe that they published the CCTV images as they likely dont know the ID of the man or whom he is! So would only have her side of the story.

Yes there are rapests (statistically many of whom are likely to be known to the victim) but yet time and time again girls have a one night stand and then claim rape the next day (I’m not saying he did or didnt do it) but where is the justice in publicising his photo.

With the fraser pope case there was 100’s of media articles about him standing trial, but only a tiny fraction of those will advertise he got aquitted!

I have a problem with legal defamation! Another true attack on our society!

fabforty said :

+ 1

How is this in his defence ?

Well it doesnt look good on her behalf if he was there for “assistance to a matter” and yet it looks more like they are much more than that. What exactly is “assistance to a matter” anyway.. another way of putting he wanted to get laid, or was he going to call for a tow because he left his mobile phone in 1990?

In other news
http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/fraser-pope-acquitted-of-post-grand-final-rape-charges/story-e6frfku0-1226286349631

Fraser Pope was acquitted of a similar charge.. but not before going though absolute hell!

Got something you need to tell the police gooterz?

It’s highly unlikely they’d have published the CCTV images unless the crime was serious.

gooterz said :

“The man engaged in conversation with the woman, seeking her assistance to a matter. “

M Rose said :

gooterz said :

In his defence though.. it is only alleged and from the pics it looks like hes holding her hand on one photo and shes grabbing his arse in another….

Umm? Alleged sexual assault can be alleged sexual assault even if the victim once (allegedly) held their attackers hand or allowed them to touch them. I’m pretty sure you know this, maybe just have a quick re-think.

It doesnt add up to what she said was the reason he came in.

Also for the record.. there is no mention of rape either. Sexual assult could be as little as getting the wrong message and touching her.

All we know is that a lady presumeably under the influence of alcohol and alone walking though some of the worst parts of canberra, meets a guy and escorts him back to her apparent at 3am -4am on saturday.

Then it gets reported to the public 36 hours later.

I just wouldnt rule out the possibility of her thinking ah.. maybe i shouldn’t have done that on the saturday morning/afternoon.

DUUUUUDE, just stop. you’re saying all the wrong things.

TheDancingDjinn said :

Deref said :

TheDancingDjinn said :

Why does his shirt have to say that!!!!

Aspen?

I don’t know what it’s meant to say – but the fuzziness makes it look like Rapen

That says more about you (all bad) than him.

“The man engaged in conversation with the woman, seeking her assistance to a matter. “

M Rose said :

gooterz said :

In his defence though.. it is only alleged and from the pics it looks like hes holding her hand on one photo and shes grabbing his arse in another….

Umm? Alleged sexual assault can be alleged sexual assault even if the victim once (allegedly) held their attackers hand or allowed them to touch them. I’m pretty sure you know this, maybe just have a quick re-think.

It doesnt add up to what she said was the reason he came in.

Also for the record.. there is no mention of rape either. Sexual assult could be as little as getting the wrong message and touching her.

All we know is that a lady presumeably under the influence of alcohol and alone walking though some of the worst parts of canberra, meets a guy and escorts him back to her apparent at 3am -4am on saturday.

Then it gets reported to the public 36 hours later.

I just wouldnt rule out the possibility of her thinking ah.. maybe i shouldn’t have done that on the saturday morning/afternoon.

M Rose said :

gooterz said :

In his defence though.. it is only alleged and from the pics it looks like hes holding her hand on one photo and shes grabbing his arse in another….

Umm? Alleged sexual assault can be alleged sexual assault even if the victim once (allegedly) held their attackers hand or allowed them to touch them. I’m pretty sure you know this, maybe just have a quick re-think.

+ 1

How is this in his defence ?

gooterz said :

In his defence though.. it is only alleged and from the pics it looks like hes holding her hand on one photo and shes grabbing his arse in another….

So that is an unwavering sign of consent is it?

TheDancingDjinn said :

Why does his shirt have to say that!!!! – i don’t want to be the person who makes this joke man

If it’s a rape joke, don’t make it.

TheDancingDjinn6:27 pm 18 Mar 12

Deref said :

TheDancingDjinn said :

Why does his shirt have to say that!!!!

Aspen?

I don’t know what it’s meant to say – but the fuzziness makes it look like Rapen

gooterz said :

In his defence though.. it is only alleged and from the pics it looks like hes holding her hand on one photo and shes grabbing his arse in another….

Umm? Alleged sexual assault can be alleged sexual assault even if the victim once (allegedly) held their attackers hand or allowed them to touch them. I’m pretty sure you know this, maybe just have a quick re-think.

TheDancingDjinn said :

Why does his shirt have to say that!!!!

Aspen?

gooterz said :

Such a clear photo.. why isnt there some automatic face detection..

Everyone has to use an ATM at some point!

People get upset enough over number plate recognition, can you imagine how much they would get upset over facial recognition?

TheDancingDjinn4:12 pm 18 Mar 12

Why does his shirt have to say that!!!! – i don’t want to be the person who makes this joke man

In his defence though.. it is only alleged and from the pics it looks like hes holding her hand on one photo and shes grabbing his arse in another….

Such a clear photo.. why isnt there some automatic face detection..

Everyone has to use an ATM at some point!

Wife and I walk down Mort quite often when going home in Turner… will definitely be keeping an eye out for this scumbag and making sure the Mrs is extra vigilant!

On top of the foul nature of this crime there’s an attack on society in general here.

Crimes like this make people less likely to help each other in distress.

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