22 August 2011

Does the GDE need a Calvary access road?

| johnboy
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Last week a baby was born in a traffic jam on Gungahlin Drive, which will at least be useful practice for the rest of its life.

Today Alistair Coe is asking why one can’t get from this supposedly arterial road to Calvary Hospital sitting pretty much next to it:

The ACT Government was advised to build an access road for emergency purposes from the GDE to Calvary Hospital by the Liberal Chaired Planning and Urban Services Standing Committee as long ago as 2001, said Alistair Coe, Shadow Minister for Urban Services.

The issue has been highlighted with the dramatic delivery of a baby on the roadside because the couple could not get through GDE traffic.

I am concerned about the Governments inability to manage the GDE has lead to severe traffic jams which has made the journey to Calvary Hospital much longer than it should have been.

In this case, there was a happy ending and I congratulate the couple, but it shows if you do not plan and build properly there can be very real consequences.

Welcome to the world, you’re now an opportunity for Alistair Coe to say “I told you so”.

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bitzermaloney10:12 am 23 Aug 11

johnboy said :

bitzermaloney said :

If Aranda can get it’s own on/off ramps why not every other suburb along the line. Kaleen’s gotta be next after that.

Aranda is home to better letter writers.

Obviously. That or it’s where the TAMS senior management live. However you’ll more fresh pasta, grappa and “real” football lovers in Kaleen. (In 2006 the whole suburb was wide was partying for many days after the World Cup.)

If your labour has reached the “pushing” stage and you live 25 minutes from medical help you’re supposed to stay put, stick some towels in the microwave, run a bath, boil some scissors and call an ambulance or your midwife.

If there’s nothing wrong with your pregnancy the biggest risk is infection; a paramedic, midwife or doula will be able to help.

Whinging for specialists and risking the drive to a hospital just makes you look like a princess who can’t handle normal human functions.

The Antichrist9:00 pm 22 Aug 11

Gungahlin Al said :

The Antichrist said :

sepi said :

…..This is about whether there needs to be an access road to the hospital for medical emergencies coming from that direction – answer yes.

It isn’t about this one poor woman and her baby, which thank fully all turned out well for all concerned……

Sorry mate, this is *all* about 1 poor woman and her baby being delivered in a car, which according to Mr Coe, was all due to the gridlock on the GDE ! He was quite happy to use this example to illustrate his point of view.

Then stop being a jerk and stick to that point instead of trying to turn it around into criticism of that person’s childbirth planning. You undermine the case you are mounting with such stupid and unnecessary assertions.

If the childbirth had actually been planned, this thread would not exist. Time you took a Bex and a long lie down.

nsn said :

Not sure what you’re referring to, what_the. Do you mean the off ramp from Caswell Drive to Belconnen Way? From there to Calvary you have to stop at three sets of lights, potentially: one at the intersection at the bottom of the off-ramp, one at the intersection of Belconnen way and Hayden Drive, and one at the entrance to Calvary.
The issue is that the original plans for the GDE provided for a direct off-ramp from the GDE (northbound, north of the Belconnen Way overpass) to Calvary. A+E at Calvary is at the back of the building, a few hundred metres (at most) from the GDE. A direct access road from the GDE to the rear of Calvary would therefore avoid three sets of traffic lights, as well as a fair amount of distance.
As per my earlier post, for some reason this direct access road did not go ahead. Not sure why.
But it was originally planned when the GDE was being developed, so to suggest it should be built doesn’t seem to me quite in the same league as suggesting that “there should actually be a hospital in every suburb with access directly to it from every residence, so that in in every circumstance, members of the public can drive straight to ER” , which, as far as an analogy goes, just strikes me as stupid and incoherent.

No idea what you’re talking about with the analogy.

I’m talking about the here and now. I’m saying that now building an off ramp directly to the hospital to avoid 500m and 3 sets of lights to save 1 minute would not be the best use of public funding.

Gungahlin Al6:16 pm 22 Aug 11

The Antichrist said :

sepi said :

…..This is about whether there needs to be an access road to the hospital for medical emergencies coming from that direction – answer yes.

It isn’t about this one poor woman and her baby, which thank fully all turned out well for all concerned……

Sorry mate, this is *all* about 1 poor woman and her baby being delivered in a car, which according to Mr Coe, was all due to the gridlock on the GDE ! He was quite happy to use this example to illustrate his point of view.

Then stop being a jerk and stick to that point instead of trying to turn it around into criticism of that person’s childbirth planning. You undermine the case you are mounting with such stupid and unnecessary assertions.

Not sure what you’re referring to, what_the. Do you mean the off ramp from Caswell Drive to Belconnen Way? From there to Calvary you have to stop at three sets of lights, potentially: one at the intersection at the bottom of the off-ramp, one at the intersection of Belconnen way and Hayden Drive, and one at the entrance to Calvary.
The issue is that the original plans for the GDE provided for a direct off-ramp from the GDE (northbound, north of the Belconnen Way overpass) to Calvary. A+E at Calvary is at the back of the building, a few hundred metres (at most) from the GDE. A direct access road from the GDE to the rear of Calvary would therefore avoid three sets of traffic lights, as well as a fair amount of distance.
As per my earlier post, for some reason this direct access road did not go ahead. Not sure why.
But it was originally planned when the GDE was being developed, so to suggest it should be built doesn’t seem to me quite in the same league as suggesting that “there should actually be a hospital in every suburb with access directly to it from every residence, so that in in every circumstance, members of the public can drive straight to ER” , which, as far as an analogy goes, just strikes me as stupid and incoherent.

sepi said :

This is about whether there needs to be an access road to the hospital for medical emergencies coming from that direction – answer yes.

It isn’t about this one poor woman and her baby, which thank fully all turned out well for all concerned.

Babies are unpredictable, and Canberra maternity are just as likely to send people away if they aren’t in full labour, She was probably told to wait a bit longer – just very unfortunate she hit peak hour.

It is great that some people feel so able to predict the duration of labour in their families – I hope predicting your sports injuries, strokes and heart attacks goes well for you also and you arrive at Emergency in a timely fashion.

But there is one?? I dont get it. The existing off ramp is about 300m away from the hospital? Or are people actually talking about having a ramp that connects directly to the front door or the ER? Why would we invest in another ramp 300m down to save probably 1 minute in real time?

The Antichrist4:51 pm 22 Aug 11

sepi said :

…..This is about whether there needs to be an access road to the hospital for medical emergencies coming from that direction – answer yes.

It isn’t about this one poor woman and her baby, which thank fully all turned out well for all concerned……

Sorry mate, this is *all* about 1 poor woman and her baby being delivered in a car, which according to Mr Coe, was all due to the gridlock on the GDE ! He was quite happy to use this example to illustrate his point of view.

Yes, thankfully it ended up well for that particular woman and her baby, and we are all happy about that. No, I don’t agree with the initial premise for 1 second, that this example is proof that additional access for emergency vehicles is needed at all.

If this line of thought was taken to its logical conclusion, then there should actually be a hospital in every suburb with access directly to it from every residence, so that in in every circumstance, members of the public can drive straight to ER without so much as a beep of the horn or a bird out the window to the ever-present tailgater !

Clearly this utopian vision will never be possible. So we do the next best thing. Put disco lights & sirens on emergency vehicles. Seems to work in all other advanced civilisations ?

This is about whether there needs to be an access road to the hospital for medical emergencies coming from that direction – answer yes.

It isn’t about this one poor woman and her baby, which thank fully all turned out well for all concerned.

Babies are unpredictable, and Canberra maternity are just as likely to send people away if they aren’t in full labour, She was probably told to wait a bit longer – just very unfortunate she hit peak hour.

It is great that some people feel so able to predict the duration of labour in their families – I hope predicting your sports injuries, strokes and heart attacks goes well for you also and you arrive at Emergency in a timely fashion.

The Antichrist3:33 pm 22 Aug 11

nsn said :

….For the record, The Antichrist, Sarahsarah isn’t the only person to interpret your comment like that way: you came across as an elitist jerk to me too……

did you actually post ? sorry I failed mindreading, but its hard to actually comment about *posts* being made, when there was only 1 actual *post* made.

If getting my missus to hospital in time to have 4 babies makes me an elitist jerk, so be it.

I think I would rather have 4 healthy kids, than not be considered an elitist jerk and cop a stillbirth in the back seat – simply because I was too slack to drag my sorry @rse into the maternity ward in a timely fashion……but thats elitist jerkism for ya !

You also may want to have another look at those *other comments* – you do actually appear to be the only one who took it that way.

For the record, The Antichrist, Sarahsarah isn’t the only person to interpret your comment like that way: you came across as an elitist jerk to me too.

The Antichrist2:47 pm 22 Aug 11

sarahsarah said :

……Apologies if that’s not the way you meant to come across, but I can see from other comments I am not the only one who took it that way…..

Apology accepted. I have only ever considered myself an normal jerk, but am very happy to be elevated to the elite class !! roflzomfgbbq 🙂

You also may want to have another look at those *other comments* – you do actually appear to be the only one who took it that way.

The Antichrist said :

sarahsarah said :

……Besides, just because the birth of *your* children went so well to plan doesn’t mean everyone else’s does…….

where did I say they went to plan, or weren’t quick ?

I said we didn’t leave the trip too late – for one of my kids, that meant a trip to Calvary and a delivery within 1 hour.

Your whole comment smacked of elitist jerkism. My point was that life invariably happens and it doesn’t always happen the way we expect. Don’t judge the poor woman because she happened to have her baby in a car when you on the other hand managed to make it to the hospital in time for all 4 of yours.

Apologies if that’s not the way you meant to come across, but I can see from other comments I am not the only one who took it that way.

At any rate – glad the mum and bub are okay. I am sure that once the GDE is finished (not that it was on the GDE) traffic will flow smoothly and their won’t be any more issues like this. Oh and there will be rainbows, peach pies and fluffy kittens given to everyone who drives along there. Right?

The Antichrist1:55 pm 22 Aug 11

sarahsarah said :

……Besides, just because the birth of *your* children went so well to plan doesn’t mean everyone else’s does…….

where did I say they went to plan, or weren’t quick ?

I said we didn’t leave the trip too late – for one of my kids, that meant a trip to Calvary and a delivery within 1 hour.

The Antichrist1:52 pm 22 Aug 11

Gungahlin Al said :

The Antichrist said :

Not once during the birth of my own 4 children, did we leave the journey to Calvary Hospital late, its hardly the fault of the roadbuilders that someone else chose to leave *their* journey so late that they had to give birth in a car.

Let’s not turn a political issue into criticism of a private citizen just because their child came on quick. It happens.

But its OK to turn the issues of a private citizen into a political issue just because their child came on quick ?

something about a goose and some sauce and a gander comes into mind….

The Antichrist said :

Gungahlin Al said :

…….It was Haydon Drive. …

So lets blame the GDE for a birth that occurred on a road that is not actually the GDE, but one that actually has several feeder roads (none of which by the way are actually the GDE in the first place) ?

Sure, that will make a good story for Mr Coe……must have been a slow news day.

Not once during the birth of my own 4 children, did we leave the journey to Calvary Hospital late, its hardly the fault of the roadbuilders that someone else chose to leave *their* journey so late that they had to give birth in a car.

Not every baby has a drawn out birth. Sometimes when they are ready, they are ready and out they come. My sister gave birth in the hospital elevator because the little tacker just couldn’t wait the extra 5 minutes be born in a bed. From go to whoa it only took a few hours.

Besides, just because the birth of *your* children went so well to plan doesn’t mean everyone else’s does.

yellowsnow said :

bitzermaloney said :

If Aranda can get it’s own on/off ramps why not every other suburb along the line. Kaleen’s gotta be next after that.

I always assumed Kaleen was getting ramps because Stanhope lives there. Who’s next in line for direct ramps after Jon’s? Anyone know where Katie Gallagher or Simon Corbell live? Pretty soon there’ll be more ramps than cars on that damn road, already allegedly the most expensive and overengineered public road in Australia’s history per km, or so i’ve heard

I think you assumed wrong, which renders the rest of your ramp moot.

Aranda already had two eastern exits on to Caswell Drive – after the duplication this has been reduced to one. Kaleen has always had an exit to the east – it doesn’t have ramps on to Gungahlin Drive, but it still exists and runs where it always has, so they haven’t lost anything either.

The Antichrist said :

Gungahlin Al said :

…….It was Haydon Drive. …

So lets blame the GDE for a birth that occurred on a road that is not actually the GDE, but one that actually has several feeder roads (none of which by the way are actually the GDE in the first place) ?

Sure, that will make a good story for Mr Coe……must have been a slow news day.

Not once during the birth of my own 4 children, did we leave the journey to Calvary Hospital late, its hardly the fault of the roadbuilders that someone else chose to leave *their* journey so late that they had to give birth in a car.

Strongly agree. Same applies to the woman featured on ABC’s 7:30 a couple of weeks back. Made the decision to move to Yass from Canberra – and is then outraged Yass is not well equiped to handle births; lives are being risked in the dangerous drive to Canberra while in labour etc.

Well should have thought of that before you moved. And if you really believe you’re risking your life then how about staying somewhere in Canberra for the week or two before you’re due.

Gungahlin Al1:30 pm 22 Aug 11

The Antichrist said :

Not once during the birth of my own 4 children, did we leave the journey to Calvary Hospital late, its hardly the fault of the roadbuilders that someone else chose to leave *their* journey so late that they had to give birth in a car.

Let’s not turn a political issue into criticism of a private citizen just because their child came on quick. It happens.

The Antichrist1:23 pm 22 Aug 11

Gungahlin Al said :

…….It was Haydon Drive. …

So lets blame the GDE for a birth that occurred on a road that is not actually the GDE, but one that actually has several feeder roads (none of which by the way are actually the GDE in the first place) ?

Sure, that will make a good story for Mr Coe……must have been a slow news day.

Not once during the birth of my own 4 children, did we leave the journey to Calvary Hospital late, its hardly the fault of the roadbuilders that someone else chose to leave *their* journey so late that they had to give birth in a car.

bitzermaloney said :

If Aranda can get it’s own on/off ramps why not every other suburb along the line. Kaleen’s gotta be next after that.

I always assumed Kaleen was getting ramps because Stanhope lives there. Who’s next in line for direct ramps after Jon’s? Anyone know where Katie Gallagher or Simon Corbell live? Pretty soon there’ll be more ramps than cars on that damn road, already allegedly the most expensive and overengineered public road in Australia’s history per km, or so i’ve heard

Keijidosha said :

For a city supposedly designed for cars we sure have a lot of traffic headaches.

+1

‘designed’ is a very kind word for what’s actually been happening. Every time the latest debacle is brought to us courtesy of Roads ACT, I do wonder how the guys in control over there have actually managed to hold on to their jobs as long as they have

bitzermaloney said :

If Aranda can get it’s own on/off ramps why not every other suburb along the line. Kaleen’s gotta be next after that.

Aranda is home to better letter writers.

Is he f***ing mad?

I for one would like to see the GDE completed some time prior to the year 3000

bitzermaloney1:03 pm 22 Aug 11

Surely an exit / entry to accomodate both the hospital an Bruce Stadium should have been implemented?

Of course we all love hanging around for 45min after a Brumbies/Raiders game trying to get out of the parking lot because the traffic lights on Belco Way haven’t been synched. And naturally enough the residents in Bruce equally love match days. (Why else would they choose to live there?).

If Aranda can get it’s own on/off ramps why not every other suburb along the line. Kaleen’s gotta be next after that.

There’s an off-ramp like 300m from the hospital?

The only hold ups I usually see are twits that are paralysed due to there being no sign telling them they’re allowed to proceed into an intersection or mount a gutter to get out of the way, that or like half of Canberra drivers they haven’t ever checked the rear mirror to see the blaze of lights and sirens behind them.

BREAKING NEWS: ACT Labor are useless clowns when it comes to managing roads and roadwork.

Luckily it’s an alive mum and baby, gratz to the family.

It’s a pity though that the worst possible outcome would have made for more chance of action.

As I understand it, the fact that a direct access road was originally planned from the GDE to Calvary is the only reason for the weird U-turn arrangements under the bridge at the intersection of GDE/Caswell Drive and Belconnen Way. For some reason, a decision was made not to proceed with such a direct access road, but the bridge was still built the way originally designed. I’m pretty sure the road signs there still have text for “Calvary Hospital” signposted that way, but they are just covered up.
I’ve often wondered how much the decision to ditch the access road, obviously made late in the process, added to the cost of the bridge over Belconnen Way.

ps sorry about the typos in my post — I submitted prematurely, an all too common problem

25 mins from Harrison to the hospital in the morning peaks sounds pretty good to me.

Not that, contrary to some of the comments blaming the husband for taking the GDE – judging by media reports it the woman in labour drove herself! While simultaneously calling/texting her mum and trying to entertain a kid in the backseat. Very impressive multitasking. So she gave birth in the driver’s seat and caught the baby herself, while driving. And seemed pretty non-fussed about it all

Surely this is the story (amazing as it is) the media and politicians should be focusing on, not the non existence of an additional slip lane which wouldn’t have shortened the trip. Some will argue that the woman shouldn’t have left it so late before going to the hospital, but with labour it’s hard to know when to go as sometimes labour takes 24h+, at other times one or two hours, and doctors generally advise against going too early

As I travel to and from the City I often see ambulances stuck in traffic around the intersections of Belconnen Way/Hayden Drive/GDE. Typically this is because numpty drivers are doing their level best to clear a path by getting each other’s way, panicing and blocking half a lane, or sitting there blissfully ignorant of the flashing lights and sirens.

At this point I wonder why there was no slip lane/flyover constructed on the GDE for emergency access to Calvary. Of course then I realise that such a feature would be rendered useless by the fact the rest of the GDE is a parking lot.

For a city supposedly designed for cars we sure have a lot of traffic headaches.

Gungahlin Al11:37 am 22 Aug 11

We have a post on this on http://www.facebook.com/gungahlin including a response from the new mother herself.

It was Haydon Drive. Not sure a new entrance would have made a difference in this instance, but an emergency use only entrance wouldn’t be a bad thing. A general entrance – no. Already we are told the whole Gungahlin Drive will be kept to 80kph due to the regular conflict points along it. Any more and they’ll throttle us down to 70 or something…

Sometimes I forget what it feels like to drive at 100kph…

I read the article in the CT, and, I may have read it wrong, but, it appeared that it took them 25 minutes to get to the hospital from Gunghalin? I’m not sure that this constitutes a compelling case for a new road, for people having babies.

I heard the baby was born on Hayden Dr. They turned off at Ginninderra Dr because of the traffic. If an access road was there, could he made it in time anyway?

I have always found it strange that there isn’t road there with the hospital, quite literally, a stone’s throw from the GDE. Much quicker for ambos as it would come out right in front of A&E.

The Antichrist11:02 am 22 Aug 11

Yes of course there should be a road straight from the GDE to Calvary !

Hell, they should have built a road directly from this couples house to the ER carpark !

Clearly, leaving home a bit earlier – say, when contractions started, was never an option…..

Why would you take the GDE if your wife was in labour? Or even due in the next month?

Sweet. I would have just argued for this cause I work at Calvs, but now that there is a baby involved, it’d a dead cert now. I’m thankfull someone is thinking of the children.

I remember seeing such a lane on some plans many years ago, and I did wonder where it had gotten to. Seems like it would be kind of pointless for the northbound lane, but might save a minute or two southbound (which might make all the difference in emergency situations). Having said that, if there was a full-on traffic jam, I don’t see how the extra little bit of road would have helped – you still would have needed to actually reach the access road, which means you’re very close to the Belconnen way intersection anyway. Was it really a situation where being able to get off at a spot 300m away would have made a difference? Or is it, god forbid, simply the Libs searching desperately for any excuse, no matter how ridiculous, to attack the government?

There is a fine line between effective opposition and just being a whinger.

Alistair is on the wrong side of the line in my opinion.

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