Skip to content Skip to main navigation

Business

The voice of business in Canberra

Dr Maxine Cooper helps out the BoM

By welkin31 - 17 January 2010 13

The ACT State of the Environment 2007 mentions – “The expansion of the airport has affected the accuracy of measurements at the weather station.”.  At a later date an “Update: Clarification….” was added by the Bureau of Meteorology (BoM) and ANU Fenner School staffers which included a pdf report “Has Development around Canberra Airport affected its use as a Climate Reference Station?”.  It is stated “The new comparison site is expected to be operational by the end of September 2008.”  This looks to be CANBERRA AIRPORT COMPARISON Site number: 70351 which can be downloaded at this BoM page. Does anybody know where this new temperature recorder is located ?

A blog – “Errors in IPCC climate science” (EIICS) has an article “Evidence for a strong urbanization signal – 0.3 degrees C per decade in Canberra Airport temperature data 1997-2009”.   This issue goes to the very heart of IPCC anthropogenic global warming (AGW) because there are hundreds of busy airport stations like Canberra in IPCC global data.  Located in the HQ of the Rudd Empire at a time when the ETS will soon be front page again – there are lots of fascinating nuances in this story.
Is EIISC correct in claiming a “..strong urbanization signal..” over the 13 years ? or is the Fenner School correct in claiming the site “..has remained relatively unchanged through to 2005.”

What’s Your opinion?


Post a comment
Please login to post your comments, or connect with
13 Responses to
Dr Maxine Cooper helps out the BoM
annoyedcan 5:48 pm 20 Jan 10

ACT needs one north side in Gungahlin. Only a few live at the airport. Nearly every time more rain falls north and south and little near airport. Might make yearly rainfall more accurate.

haroldbeagle 5:09 pm 20 Jan 10

Weather stations are commonly placed at airports as a primary use of the data is for flight planning; air pressure, wind speed and direction, and to a lesser extent temperature, are very important to aircraft – particularly during take off and landing (but also used for flight time and fuel load calculations). That there is some civilian use of the data is a secondary benifit.

haroldbeagle 5:04 pm 20 Jan 10

I’ve just been on a trip out to Fairburn and spotted what I assume is the new reference station. About 3-400 metres south of the existing station or about 100 metres north of the south-eastern tip of the secondary run-way (rough gestimation – I was a passenger in a car and sneaked a peek at the odometer – hardly accurate I know).

>>>Is EIISC correct in claiming a “..strong urbanization
>>> signal..” over the 13 years ? or is the Fenner >>>School correct in claiming the site “..has remained >>>relatively unchanged through to 2005.”

From my reading of the Fenner paper, they believed there was a small change (mostly post 2005), so both can be correct, and is certainly in line with my expectations (ie about .25 – .5 over the last decade with recent changes, and a similar amount over the preceding 50 odd years – remember this when you hear the press trumpet the highest ever recorded temps). Note that the Fenner paper only looked at the brief period since the Tuggeranong station came on line (which itself would be subject to urban effects – and there appears to have been significant additional development around its location over the last year).

Gungahlin Al 6:17 am 19 Jan 10

sepi said :

After living in Melbourne, I have always found Canberra’s weather reports amazingly accurate.

Agreed – always very accurate. (Didn’t come from Melbourne tho)

Although I do question the validity of measuring at the airport as the temperatures out there (where noone lives) are far from what most of us in the actual suburbs experience, and therefore misleading.

Hells Bells, perhaps the reason you are seeing synoptic charts with yesterday’s date is that they feature the Greenwich Mean Time Date – a global weather practice. This is now called UTC or Coordinated Universal Time. However the BOM’s weather maps show both UTC and EDT: http://www.bom.gov.au/cgi-bin/nmoc/latest_MSLP.pl?IDCODE=IDY00050

deye 6:20 pm 18 Jan 10

Hells_Bells74 said :

Pommy bastard said :

Which still doesn’t explain why the BOM is so utterly wrong on most of its Canberra forecasts….

I don’t follow the BoM at all. I don’t particually trust weather reporters but I do tend to have them shoved at me throughout my television watching. Very mainstream..

I never watch the tv news or weather, I get it all online. As for weather forecasts, the BOM website isn’t that bad for temp and winds, rain and snow on the other hand can be a bit tricky. You just have to remember when their usual update times are, and check the radar if you are not sure about hte possibility of rain when heading out somewhere.

welkin31 3:47 pm 18 Jan 10

A few quick observations.
I do not know how current we can expect GoogleEarth to be – so the new site may not yet show on GE imagery.
At the Australian Weather News site,
http://www.australianweathernews.com/data/DS1270.HTM
Canberra Airport has lats-longs to 4 decimal places – CANBERRA AIRPORT (070014) 578.4m asl 35.3049 S 149.2014 E
The new site is 2.9m lower at 575.5m with only approx coords which fit with being a bit south. The new site reads a little warmer too which fits with being nearer the main terminal end of the property.
Maybe some sharp eyed Rioter can spot the instruments.

sepi 1:36 pm 18 Jan 10

After living in Melbourne, I have always found Canberra’s weather reports amazingly accurate.

DHMO 10:02 am 18 Jan 10

Welkin31 sorry I was yet to read the Warrick Hughes article. I see your point the main station is at the end of the main car park so where is the reference one? It ought to be 1 minute south and be visible.

Seems I need to research coords in google earth. The entered values seem to be different to the displayed.

haroldbeagle 9:39 am 18 Jan 10

Site 70351 is listed as being Latitude: 35.31° S Longitude: 149.20° E, which places it just south of the existing Canberra Airport site (Lat: -35.30 Lon: 149.20). Google maps shows it being near the south-east end of the secondary (east-west) runway.

The existing measurement site at Canberra airport has been compromised by the placement of the new defence (CIO ?) buildings and carpark adjacent to it. According to bureau standards, the temperature measurement instruments should be placed on natural vegetation, and at least 6 times the distance from any size of any dissimilar environment. i.e. As the carpark and buildings are aprox 200 metres square, the measurement device should be 1200 metres (6 * 200) from this location. In fact it is about 6 metres from the edge of the new car park.

Yes I am a weather nerd, and yes I have gone out to check and measure these things.

DHMO 9:29 am 18 Jan 10

Sorry I forgot this

God created Economists and then had to create
Climatologists to make them look good.
This all made Astrology look respectable!

DHMO 9:26 am 18 Jan 10

I don’t know precisely where it is but if you enter the position on Google Earth it is near the eastern end of the East West runway. The main one looks to be in the Fairburn air base on the edge of what looks like a golf course. That said no trace can be seen if magnified, even though quite small objects can so are they the right coords. Does anyone know where the Belconnen temperature the ABC uses comes from. It is frequently a degree or two different!
Pommy bastard you might be interested in the story that the BBC is considering dropping the met office saying they have a warm bias. Seems Met predicted a very hot summer followed by a mild winter. Instead it was a cool summer followed by a very cold winter. As for the accuracy of the BOM you just aren’t matching the forecast correctly. If the forecast is for rain then you just have to wait until it does and then they are correct. Besides climate models are perfectly accurate. You just have to set the prediction far enough in the future. No one alive today should be able to prove it wrong.

Welkin31 do you know about the weather station surveys done in the USA. With temperature fields averages really don’t mean much. Sort of like an average on telephone numbers.

Hells_Bells74 8:58 am 18 Jan 10

Pommy bastard said :

Which still doesn’t explain why the BOM is so utterly wrong on most of its Canberra forecasts….

I don’t follow the BoM at all. I don’t particually trust weather reporters but I do tend to have them shoved at me throughout my television watching. Very mainstream. My funny is (hope some others have noticed lol) that on said television weather reports for Canberra region (especially round 14:30-15:00 and 22-23:00) that they always have YESTERDAY’s or worse date on their synoptic charts for Australia. Until they realise (happens daily in my little observation for a couple of weeks) and near the very end of the segment change it to today’s date and you get if you are lucky a flash of it. Whilst they were talking about TODAY all along.

Unfortunately I am not exactly sure which channel is doing it, so I won’t comment, but I must say I watch a lot of ten in the day and Prime more late night. Thank God I have digital back, I like no false news and weather interupting me on GO and 72.

Be nice if all the buggers (WR’s and BoM) at least ‘looked’ like they were trying.

Pommy bastard 7:55 am 18 Jan 10

Which still doesn’t explain why the BOM is so utterly wrong on most of its Canberra forecasts….

Related Articles

CBR Tweets

Sign up to our newsletter

Top
Copyright © 2017 Riot ACT Holdings Pty Ltd. All rights reserved.
www.the-riotact.com | www.b2bmagazine.com.au | www.thisiscanberra.com

Search across the site