20 October 2008

Drink driving the new black?

| johnboy
Join the conversation
50

The AFP have been alarmed by a surge in the numbers of drink drivers they’ve been picking up with some huge blood alcohol levels:

    “ACT Policing have received some concerning statistics in the past week with over 48 drunk-drivers detected.

    Of particular concern, seven of the 2,500 drivers tested during this period recorded readings over 0.150 grams of alcohol per 100 millilitres of blood, three times the legal limit.

    The latest incident was detected after a collision on Kingsford Smith Drive at 8am today (October 20) with one of the drivers, a 39-year-old Florey man, allegedly returning a reading of 0.237.

    The highest reading recorded was 0.252, or five times the legal limit, at 1.30am on Sunday morning (October 19) after police pulled over the 31-year-old Theodore man.

But they promise they’re on top of it.

Join the conversation

50
All Comments
  • All Comments
  • Website Comments
LatestOldest

Only a theory at this stage. However, with some thought and fine tuning it’s possible that it could work.

It could possibly work. Perhaps use it for the low range offences. But police would still have to take the person into custody, watch over them for 20 mins, then put them on the breath analysis machine at the station.

Why not make a first DUI offence akin to a speeding ticket but with greater ramifications? For instance, if you blow over the limit, you get an on the spot fine of, say $1,000 and off you go.

frees up that wasted administrative time as well as the time it takes to process everything.

Second time offence, no excuses, don’t pass go…

Good idea in theory Thumper. But it would only work below a certain reading say .8 After all, what if your first offence was also reading of .2? Deserve automatic loss of license and a $1000 fine at least. I was rear ended by a bloke once that ended up loosing his licence for life and scored a $2000 fine. He also also lost his job as he hit me while driving a company car. AAMI apparenly don’t like their employees driving drunk!

When talkig about DUI I always recall that carload of clowns that driove to canberra from Syd. several years ago. One by one they were picked off by the police for drink driving over a period of hours. Hilarious!

I agree with Tylers, and Peterh oin personal responsibility.
I’ve just got into making Home Brew and opening a home made coldie when you get home is priceless. It’s also cheap, costing about $30 for the equivelant of 4 Cases of stubbies. I simply invite friends over, put on some good music and sit on the deck out the back. Who needs to go out?

Handlebar said :

He’s not sure if he should get a lawyer or not.

From personal experience, unless he hit someone/something in his car or abused the poklice when he was caught, I’d suggest don’t get a laywer. You pay upwards of $1500 as you have to pay for their time for the whole day. As you have to sit through a whole host of hearings first (e.g. assault, attempted murder, dealing drugs, etc.. what fun) DUIs are typiclly dealth with last. Also while you have to pay for the day, the lawyer may have several other clients in court also on DUI all paying for his time for the whole day.

When I went to court I did some research and found the average fine for my level of reading (.062) was around $500. Simple math and common sense was don’t fork out for a laywer when you’ll only get a low level fine if you cop it sweet. That said, tell your friend to get some good reference if he can, wear a suit to court and be very humble and apologetic to teh Magistrate. It might also help if you’re mate also volunteered to to a drivers eduction course. I did all of this and walked out ashamed but free (no loss of points, no Fine and no loss of license).

I was breath tested twice in one night on foreshore night.

I wasn’t impressed with the photo of in today’s CT of Saturday’s Commonwealth bridge operation, all over the bike lane. From experience, when a cyclist arrives, in the bike lane, the police are taken by surprise. Doesn’t create confidence.

and i base my comment not just on the doco i mention, i was just in UK last year.

dacquiri you clearly have not been to UK lately re your comment about anti-social alcohol driven behaviour – or even seen any docos? i shudder even thinking about some real footage in doco i saw recently about brit binge-drinking where a screeching drunken woman stepped off the curb protesting her drunken lout bf being arrested and she broke her own ankle because she couldn’t even walk properly.

Why is there no low alcohol wine?

Why not drink low alcohol beer?

tylersmayhem said :

isn’t it about time we looked at where and when we can buy our alcohol!!!!

Oh Jeebus, please no! Isn’t it about time we just look at personal decisions and responsibility?

nah, it isn’t the individual’s decision to drink, it is society’s. the shop / pub holds a gun to your head so you have no choice to buy or drink the grog…

please.

I don’t drink. my choice.

want to avoid being done DUI? don’t drink and drive.

couple of tradies i know wait till they get home for a coldie. or they get a different guy each day to be designated driver. for a tradie, lose your license, can’t work, can’t get paid.

or spend hours on buses or taxis. is that worth it?

tylersmayhem11:11 am 22 Oct 08

isn’t it about time we looked at where and when we can buy our alcohol!!!!

Oh Jeebus, please no! Isn’t it about time we just look at personal decisions and responsibility?

drink driving is on the rise but why ?????? my partner was recently done for low level drink driving after 2 beers at lunch then drove home his own stupidity he admits …but a valid comment he made was that he is a tradie and most tradies enjoy a beer or two too many but the problem is that he can buy beer wine sprints what ever he wants on his way to work at 7/8am in the morning isn’t it about time we looked at where and when we can buy our alcohol!!!!

tylersmayhem3:48 pm 21 Oct 08

Very true, could have haunted you for the rest of your life! Did your insurance skyrocket? Having to write it on forms would be embarrassing I imagine. Lucky your 10 years has clocked up.

I think my parents were more embarrassed than me at the time. My insurance did not change, in fact it has never been required to report it to them. If I had been in an accident, they would have not insured me, the other party and would most likely wipe their hands of me for good.

Very true, could have haunted you for the rest of your life! Did your insurance skyrocket? Having to write it on forms would be embarrassing I imagine. Lucky your 10 years has clocked up.

tylersmayhem3:04 pm 21 Oct 08

@handlebar: yes I got a conviction, 6 months off the road and a fine. Just gone 10 years ago, so it’s a charge I can finally omit in applications, sec. clearances etc.

It was such a reckless and stupid thing to do. But at the time I seriously always drove out knowing full well I’d get plastered, then drive home! Bad bad bad! The fine I paid could have stumped up quite a few cab fares.

I still scares me when I think “what if I happened to run over someone that night, what if I ran down the policeman that pulled me over at the RBT and they died. I’d quite possibly still be behind bars!

I think I got off quite lightly when you consider those things.

That’s good advice, thanks tylersmayhem. Did you get a conviction?

tylersmayhem12:55 pm 21 Oct 08

@Ari: good to hear that the cops are being quite assertive these days with doing random checks with drivers. Based on recent stats outlining the number of unlicensed, unregistered, uninsured drivers etc, it sounds like it’s very necessary.

I figure if you’re doing the right thing, people should be completely supporting the Police’s efforts. I’d just expect the police to be cool about it too (as mentioned by Ari that they were).

Thumbs up from me too!

The same survey asks about how safe people feel in their homes. If the response level is that people feel safer than the national average then the police are doing a good job

…or the criminals are doing a poor one!

we’ve talked about cycling / public transport / etc on this site ad infinitum, but how many people don’t consider these options for going out – a few more ‘locals’ would be the way to go, as matto suggests. but cycling is a great way to get to ‘out’ and it usually isn’t as far as work…

tylersmayhem12:52 pm 21 Oct 08

He’s not sure if he should get a lawyer or not.

If it’s out of character and his first offence, my advise would be to not bother with a solicitor. He will be paying a large fee to a solicitor to basically admit on his behalf that he was caught drink driving.

Rock up, admit to the wrong doing and show that he has thought long and hard about the seriousness of what he has done.

He will most likely be charged and issued with a a fairly hefty fine and time off the road. If he get a solicitor, he’ll pay their fee + a fairly hefty fine and time off the road. I’d only consider a solicitor in his case if it was a complex case (additional charges by the police i.e. resisting arrest, hit and run etc.)

As long as your mate sincerely learns from his actions, like I did, front up and take it on the chin and just don’t do it again.

The cops pulled me over this morning … not for a breath test, but to check I was licenced.

They actually do seem to have been putting resources into traffic matters apart from speeding and breath testing lately.

This morning’s blitz did seem to have found some miscreants … looked like tradies to me.

The cop I dealt with was quite pleasant, too.

Thumbs up from me.

I’ve noticed more police RBTs at more appropriate times. I also know someone who was done (it was out of character but still shocking as the reading was just over .15). He’s not sure if he should get a lawyer or not.

tylersmayhem11:49 am 21 Oct 08

burns club is 2km from my place. easy stagger home.

Fair point Peterh, but the Burns club is hardly on par with the type of establishment All Bar Nun used to be. If we all simply wanted somewhere to get pissed, I’d head down to the club at Charny.

Matto said :

The above quote didn’t quite work out like it was meant to. But I’m sure you’ll get the drift.

burns club is 2km from my place. easy stagger home. don’t drink when I go out and am driving, but then again, after my internal “offal” started to gang up on me, I don’t drink that often….

have been RBT’d a couple of times, but not in the last 12-months.

don’t think I would set foot in the Kambah inn, though. a Guy in a suit is pretty rare, there.

“Tell you what, it’s a breath of fresh air to have a copper on here who isn’t a class A dickhead. Actually knows what he’s talking about without the need to bignote or call blokes out if they disagree. Ups to Cman.”

Praising another person on this site!

thecman YOU SUCK!

Now that should even things out a bit.

The above quote didn’t quite work out like it was meant to. But I’m sure you’ll get the drift.

I think Canberra is also unique in that there are very few suburban bars/pubs. Other than some of the more upper-class suburbs (Kingston, Manuka, O’Connor, Lyneham etc) there really is just such little choice. We need more bars like what All Bar Nun used to be, scattered around other suburbs of Canberra.

Thoughts?!

Great proposition. Probably wouldn’t cut down on the DUI’s though. Just people would have lesser distance to drive drunk.
It would be nice to pop into the local on the way home for a frosty schooie if it had the atmosphere of ABN. Nothing worse than showing up to a tavern and being bombarded with the old “what they hell are you doing walking in here?” stares from the drunken bar flies.

tylersmayhem10:40 am 21 Oct 08

I also agree with C man that it is no excuse to drive drunk – but, I was charged with drink driving many years ago and the reason I did it – I was young, didn’t REALLY consider the danger I was to others, and it just cost too damned much to catch a taxi whenever I went out. And that was when cab prices were half what they are now. It’s just a perspective I’m offering here.

I think Canberra is also unique in that there are very few suburban bars/pubs. Other than some of the more upper-class suburbs (Kingston, Manuka, O’Connor, Lyneham etc) there really is just such little choice. We need more bars like what All Bar Nun used to be, scattered around other suburbs of Canberra.

Thoughts?!

amarooresident10:40 am 21 Oct 08

You obviously have not got the hang of this site yet thecman. Inserting facts into a discussion is a big no-no.

tylersmayhem10:36 am 21 Oct 08

I thought Mary Porter’s “thank you” messages was a nice touch. I am sure she will have them taken down in due time.

Careful thecman – your quote suggests this theory started with me, where is did not. But I do agree with it.

Tell you what, it’s a breath of fresh air to have a copper on here who isn’t a class A dickhead. Actually knows what he’s talking about without the need to bignote or call blokes out if they disagree. Ups to Cman.

Theories are very nice but facts are what really count. There are two types of RBT strategy, high volume / high visibility and low volume / targeted. If The Academy offering free entry to over 25’s is (allegedly) as Tylersmayhem suggests a cause of the ‘spike’ in high range drink driving detections, that would suggest the offences are being committed late at night or in the early hours of the morning when the night clubs are operating. That they are being detected indicates Police are undertaking low visibility / targeted RBT – the primary purpose of which is to catch offenders. The type of RBT Tylersmayhem has been subjected to would be consistent with the high volume / high visibility testing – the primary purpose of which is to act as a deterrent.

I agree that the late night public transport system in Canberra is very average but that does not excuse people from filling themselves with alcohol and then getting behind the wheel of a motor vehicle. Indeed the whole issue of alcohol consumption is one requiring much greater attention by Government – can guarantee that at least 50% (probably more) of crime committed in this town is alcohol related, which puts the impact of drugs into a proper context.

tylersmayhem9:16 am 21 Oct 08

Hmm… A surge in drink driving in the same period the Academy is offering free entry to over 25s.

A coincidence? I think not.

Very good point there Deano!

I’ve been breathalysed 2 or 3 times since the beginning of the year, but always in the morning or around lunch on a weekday. This seems to fit in well with some of the theories presented earlier on this thread.

Another consideration to make here…queue lack of public transport late at night and the disgraceful cost of taxi arguments.

captainwhorebags8:01 am 21 Oct 08

Maybe instead of having a blitz with 8 officers pulling over traffic you can have four blitzes (blitzi? blitzen?) with contractors doing the testing and two constabulary there to provide enforcement.

Almost similar to the vehicle inspection setups – mostly inspectors there from R.U.S. and a few cops on cars/bikes.

Bigfeet is spot on regarding the time taken to process a person for a PCA offence. Even in the best of circumstances the testing and subsequent paperwork will take an experienced Police Officer a minimum of 60 – 90 mins – and that’s probably optimistic.

Interesting idea about using private contractors or other govt employees to undertake RBT – fairly consistent with the growing trend toward privatisation and / or securitisation of traditional law enforcement functions. Not sure how it would work when the drunk driver decides he is not going to comply with the contractor’s instructions though – a not uncommon occurence.

GregW said :

Why does processing a drink driver take so long anyway?

My (very limited) understanding is that they have to be taken to the station, observed for twenty minutes (to eliminate mouth alcohol). There are a few standard questions that need to be asked. The test itself takes next to no time. The rest of the time is taken up with administrative and paperwork.

But again, this is just my limited understanding. I’m sure one of the regular cops onsite could give a more detailed answer.

bigfeet said :

What does “self-report” mean?

Basically they conduct a survey in the community and ask “Have you ever driven whilst over the limit in the past 12 months?”. If the number of people who respond “yes” is below the national average then the police are doing a good job. Therefore RBT testing is not about catching drunk drivers but acting as a deterrent to drink driving. Same with the ad campaigns and roadside signs etc. The idea is to reduce the number of drunk drivers in total, not to try to catch them all.

The same survey asks about how safe people feel in their homes. If the response level is that people feel safer than the national average then the police are doing a good job, irrespective of how many crimes they solve.

My (probably naive) thoughts on the matter is that the government wants to appear tough on drink driving but believes that it would be unacceptable (economically) to suspend so many licenses.

What about taking RBT responsibility away from police and to a model similar to the roadside speed vans? Private contractors or government employees would perform RBTs frequently, fines would be issued by mail to those caught with small excesses. Police are called in for extreme cases / BAC accuracy disputes etc, but in general no police written reports necessary. It may not be as profitable as the speed vans, but if it would pay for itself, I don’t think many (sober) drivers would mind being tested every few weeks.

Why does processing a drink driver take so long anyway?

thecman and bigfoot are on the money with this one. Govt wants numbers of tests. Newspapers report increases in drink driving when tests are low and people caught are high as is the result from targetted testing – this looks bad so govt requests lots of tests – back to square one – doing tests to get numbers. Gotta love perceptions.

thecman said :

KPI 26 requires that the percentage of persons in the ACT who self-report to driving while suspecting they are over the 0.05 alcohol limit is at or below the national average.

What does “self-report” mean?

In FY2007/2008 ACT Policing conducted 81,124 random breath tests with 1584 ‘positive’ results returned. Just because you have not seen Police doing RBT or been tested yourself does not mean it does not happen. Spend a couple of hours in the ACT Magistrates Court on any given day and you will see the procession of punters being processed through the system as a result of being picked up care of RBT.

As Bigfeet correctly states the number of RBT’s conducted by Police is driven by Key Performance Indicator (KPI) 26 in the 2007/2008 ACT Police Purchase Agreement. KPI 26 requires that the percentage of persons in the ACT who self-report to driving while suspecting they are over the 0.05 alcohol limit is at or below the national average.

Two types of RBT are conducted – high volume/high visibility random breath testing, and low volume targeted breath testing in areas where high numbers of drink drivers are usually apprehended – read near licensed establishments.

It was explained like this to me once, and it seems to make sense:

The ACT police must perform a set number of tests each year, it is part of their reporting/performance agreement with the ACT Legislative Assembly.

Catching and processing a drink driver takes two police off the road for a couple of hours, and during that time they are not testing anyone. If they stay on the road, they can do a hundred more tests.

So booze-bus blitzes are carried out a times and locations with high traffic flow, but when/where there is little chance of someone actually being over, say 11am on a Tuesday.

Felix the Cat9:02 pm 20 Oct 08

Bungle said :

Well I think I’ve been breathalised once in the past 2 years. Maybe a few more crackdowns could help.

It’s been only once in 4 or 5 years (maybe even more) for me and then it was Qbn cops doing a breath test. I drive approx 6 hours a day.

Hmm… A surge in drink driving in the same period the Academy is offering free entry to over 25s.

A coincidence? I think not.

Vic Bitterman8:29 pm 20 Oct 08

Got to be a few years since I was breathalised, the Canberra keystone cops are seriously under resourced.

At best they are conducting sporadic small patch policing, and reactionary at the best of times.

As commented above, I do above average K’s, 40,000 or so each year, and I haven’t been breathalized in 4 years. In fact, it isn’t luck of the draw, I never see them!
I did, however, nearly get hit by a Commodore Friday evening that had a 3 yr old steering.
On a busy main road in Kambah.
Luckily his Mum & Dad had their seat belts on. Parenting at it’s best.

i’m a p plater, and i drive home from work at like midnight on friday/saturday nights, and i havent ever been breathalised!

go figure?

Well I think I’ve been breathalised once in the past 2 years. Maybe a few more crackdowns could help.

An interesting story which has been trivialised by JB’s closing sentence. Personally I would be interested in knowing more about the drivers detected with such high-range blood alcohol readings. Were they male or female, age, what time were they detected etc. On JB’s comment – well clearly they are ‘on top of it’ because these drivers were detected and arrested. Not sure how the Police are expected to prevent drink driving other then by detecting and charging offenders. Now if you want to look at responsible service of alcohol and/or friends looking after each other that is a whole different issue.

Daily Digest

Want the best Canberra news delivered daily? Every day we package the most popular Riotact stories and send them straight to your inbox. Sign-up now for trusted local news that will never be behind a paywall.

By submitting your email address you are agreeing to Region Group's terms and conditions and privacy policy.