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Eastman loses another lawyer

johnboy 13 November 2013 27

The ABC reports that in his quest to have at one time hired every criminal lawyer in Australia David Eastman has lost another one as the inquiry into his murder conviction rumbles on.

Mr Willee QC was Eastman’s third senior counsel since the inquiry was ordered in September last year.

The defence team is now in the hands of Mark Griffin who has asked for some delay to allow him to catch up with the case.

Eastman told the court, via videolink from Canberra’s jail, that he had total confidence in Mr Griffin QC.


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Eastman loses another lawyer
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IrishPete 11:39 am 15 Nov 13

Dilandach said :

IrishPete said :

Dilandach said :

Robertson said :

Dilandach said :

Just a pity that the system is content with pissing money up against the wall for this case. What is the point of going through it all really?

I’ll tell you exactly why: so long as Eastman is behind bars for this crime he likely didn’t commit, the Italians who likely did commit it and the AFP cops who were in cahoots with them, are getting off scot-free.

Which is why he should be medicated, have him help his own case. If he’s guilty or innocent, let justice be done. Instead we get this circus that everyone seems content on continuing. Wasting time and money.

How many times do I have to say he can’t be medicated?

IP

That’s your qualified medical opinion that it *can’t* be done?

No, it’s not a medical opinion it’s a legal fact. You can only be forced to take medication while detained in a hospital or in the community under a Psychiatric Treatment Order (and if you still refuse under the PTO, you must be taken to hospital for it to be administered). Even if kept in a hospital, after a not very long period of time (I think it might be 10 days) the Tribunal must approve the treatment. Good luck winning that legal argument with Mr E before 2020.

IP

Dilandach 10:22 am 15 Nov 13

IrishPete said :

Dilandach said :

Robertson said :

Dilandach said :

Just a pity that the system is content with pissing money up against the wall for this case. What is the point of going through it all really?

I’ll tell you exactly why: so long as Eastman is behind bars for this crime he likely didn’t commit, the Italians who likely did commit it and the AFP cops who were in cahoots with them, are getting off scot-free.

Which is why he should be medicated, have him help his own case. If he’s guilty or innocent, let justice be done. Instead we get this circus that everyone seems content on continuing. Wasting time and money.

How many times do I have to say he can’t be medicated?

IP

That’s your qualified medical opinion that it *can’t* be done?

IrishPete 8:58 am 15 Nov 13

BimboGeek said :

Also in some jurisdictions the process begins adversarial but if the judge isn’t impressed he can ask questions, do independent research and so on. I believe Honkaz does this but law school was over 10 years ago so now I might be the one with crossed wires now.

Still, it’s a good idea. The winner shouldn’t always be the guy with the better lawyer.

They’d have chucked you out of law a school for that final comment alone.

The only winners in the adversarial system are rich lawyers.

IP

IrishPete 8:56 am 15 Nov 13

miz said :

Deref, you don’t want the inquisitorial system. Really. The test of guilt is way lower, namely ‘the balance of probabilities’. At least, and for all its faults, we have the ‘beyond reasonable doubt’ test. I know which one I’d go for if I was charged with an offence.
I learned this at Uni, BTW – we had a German lecturer who never failed to tell us how much better our system was because of this.

Whereas if I was a victim, I would want a system that held people to account, unlike the vast majority of rapists and child abusers who are acquitted or not prosecuted because our adversarial system stacks the deck in their favour..

Silvio Berlusconi with his army of lawyers would never have been convicted n Australia. That seals it for me.

IP

BimboGeek 10:22 pm 14 Nov 13

c_c™ said :

miz said :

Deref, you don’t want the inquisitorial system. Really. The test of guilt is way lower, namely ‘the balance of probabilities’. At least, and for all its faults, we have the ‘beyond reasonable doubt’ test. I know which one I’d go for if I was charged with an offence.
I learned this at Uni, BTW – we had a German lecturer who never failed to tell us how much better our system was because of this.

It’s not that simple. Germany’s standard of proof is quite abstractly defined, but still favours the defendant. On the other hand France, which is a civil law system employing inquisitorial trials for criminal proceedings does use the “beyond reasonable doubt” standard.

Adding to the complexity, the Police in various countries have different standards for when they can investigate someone, and in Germany it’s apparently quite strict.

Lecturer was probably getting his wires crossed a bit, because civil and common law both have dual meanings in legal parlance.

Also in some jurisdictions the process begins adversarial but if the judge isn’t impressed he can ask questions, do independent research and so on. I believe Honkaz does this but law school was over 10 years ago so now I might be the one with crossed wires now.

Still, it’s a good idea. The winner shouldn’t always be the guy with the better lawyer.

c_c™ 10:08 pm 14 Nov 13

miz said :

Deref, you don’t want the inquisitorial system. Really. The test of guilt is way lower, namely ‘the balance of probabilities’. At least, and for all its faults, we have the ‘beyond reasonable doubt’ test. I know which one I’d go for if I was charged with an offence.
I learned this at Uni, BTW – we had a German lecturer who never failed to tell us how much better our system was because of this.

It’s not that simple. Germany’s standard of proof is quite abstractly defined, but still favours the defendant. On the other hand France, which is a civil law system employing inquisitorial trials for criminal proceedings does use the “beyond reasonable doubt” standard.

Adding to the complexity, the Police in various countries have different standards for when they can investigate someone, and in Germany it’s apparently quite strict.

Lecturer was probably getting his wires crossed a bit, because civil and common law both have dual meanings in legal parlance.

miz 8:26 pm 14 Nov 13

Deref, you don’t want the inquisitorial system. Really. The test of guilt is way lower, namely ‘the balance of probabilities’. At least, and for all its faults, we have the ‘beyond reasonable doubt’ test. I know which one I’d go for if I was charged with an offence.
I learned this at Uni, BTW – we had a German lecturer who never failed to tell us how much better our system was because of this.

tuco 5:23 pm 14 Nov 13

IrishPete said :

Dilandach said :

Robertson said :

Dilandach said :

Just a pity that the system is content with pissing money up against the wall for this case. What is the point of going through it all really?

I’ll tell you exactly why: so long as Eastman is behind bars for this crime he likely didn’t commit, the Italians who likely did commit it and the AFP cops who were in cahoots with them, are getting off scot-free.

Which is why he should be medicated, have him help his own case. If he’s guilty or innocent, let justice be done. Instead we get this circus that everyone seems content on continuing. Wasting time and money.

How many times do I have to say he can’t be medicated?

IP

Five! Is it five? What do I win?

IrishPete 4:26 pm 14 Nov 13

Robertson said :

Affirmative Action Man said :

Eastman is clearly barking mad & has been for a long time. There is plenty of evidence to support that he was a total nutter long before the Winchester issue.

If Eastman is allowed to be involved in the review it will go nowhere.

Exactly. If we want the whole issue solved, we need to do it in the absence of Eastman himself being in any way involved.

The reverse of this coin is, why has our justice system allowed Eastman to muddy the waters so comprehensively and for so long? Why did the AFP hire a psychologist with the express purpose of designing a complex project to mentally destabilise Eastman? Why is that “doctor” considered fit to practice despite a clear breach of his hippocratic oath? Why are the AFP and the DPP not under investigation for their long history of shenanigans in this case? They’ve presented an obviously faked and key witness statement, they’ve studiously avoided obvious leads, they’ve engaged in psychological warfare against a convenient nutter, and they’ve managed to make him convict himself despite not having any evidence whatsoever tying him to the crime.

Psychiatrist, not psychologist. Apart from that, you make a fair bit of sense – this wasn’t particularly ethical behaviour by the doctor… Maybe he didn’t think he would get away with waterboarding back in the 1990s. Little did he know.

IP

IrishPete 4:25 pm 14 Nov 13

Dilandach said :

Robertson said :

Dilandach said :

Just a pity that the system is content with pissing money up against the wall for this case. What is the point of going through it all really?

I’ll tell you exactly why: so long as Eastman is behind bars for this crime he likely didn’t commit, the Italians who likely did commit it and the AFP cops who were in cahoots with them, are getting off scot-free.

Which is why he should be medicated, have him help his own case. If he’s guilty or innocent, let justice be done. Instead we get this circus that everyone seems content on continuing. Wasting time and money.

How many times do I have to say he can’t be medicated?

IP

Robertson 10:53 am 14 Nov 13

Robertson said :

Deref said :

The more I read about this kind of thing, the more convinced I become that our adversarial legal system is a crock of shite compared to the European inquisitorial system.

You forget that an inquisitorial system by appointed magistrates is even less independent of government than our imperfect system. Because the inquisitor has to use his own initiative to compile the dossier that will lead to prosecution, he exposes himself to some very nasty blowback from the government of the day if his work puts at risk the commercial interests of that government or its supporters. Hence most inquisitors pick and choose their targets and avoid touching anything dangerous.

Of course, recent Italian history is replete with the consequences of very brave prosecutors ignoring their personal interests in favour of going after the bad guys:
http://www.euronews.com/2013/10/23/the-battle-front-in-the-fight-against-the-mafia-goes-eu-wide/

Robertson 10:39 am 14 Nov 13

Deref said :

The more I read about this kind of thing, the more convinced I become that our adversarial legal system is a crock of shite compared to the European inquisitorial system.

You forget that an inquisitorial system by appointed magistrates is even less independent of government than our imperfect system. Because the inquisitor has to use his own initiative to compile the dossier that will lead to prosecution, he exposes himself to some very nasty blowback from the government of the day if his work puts at risk the commercial interests of that government or its supporters. Hence most inquisitors pick and choose their targets and avoid touching anything dangerous.

Erg0 9:44 am 14 Nov 13

IrishPete said :

So in short if he’s mentally ill he’s innocent, and if he’s guilty, he’s not mentally ill.

But is he heavier than a duck?

Deref 9:42 am 14 Nov 13

The more I read about this kind of thing, the more convinced I become that our adversarial legal system is a crock of shite compared to the European inquisitorial system.

Robertson 9:30 am 14 Nov 13

Dilandach said :

Robertson said :

Dilandach said :

Just a pity that the system is content with pissing money up against the wall for this case. What is the point of going through it all really?

I’ll tell you exactly why: so long as Eastman is behind bars for this crime he likely didn’t commit, the Italians who likely did commit it and the AFP cops who were in cahoots with them, are getting off scot-free.

Which is why he should be medicated, have him help his own case. If he’s guilty or innocent, let justice be done. Instead we get this circus that everyone seems content on continuing. Wasting time and money.

And to me, Eastman’s case is irrelevant. There is a much more important issue at stake, which is finding the culprits for this crime, from the triggerman and his driver to their employers and including their Australian-based supporters & protectors, (which include a bloke whose statue adorns the ACT LA foyer, which should give you an inkling as to how deep the problem runs).

IrishPete 8:38 am 14 Nov 13

milkman said :

Dear David Eastman (if you’re reading this),

You’re a LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY motherf*cker.

Lots of love,
The Helpful Fairy.

He isn’t reading it. Someone can print it off and mail it to him, if they want.

IP

Dilandach 8:26 am 14 Nov 13

Robertson said :

Dilandach said :

Just a pity that the system is content with pissing money up against the wall for this case. What is the point of going through it all really?

I’ll tell you exactly why: so long as Eastman is behind bars for this crime he likely didn’t commit, the Italians who likely did commit it and the AFP cops who were in cahoots with them, are getting off scot-free.

Which is why he should be medicated, have him help his own case. If he’s guilty or innocent, let justice be done. Instead we get this circus that everyone seems content on continuing. Wasting time and money.

Robertson 8:10 am 14 Nov 13

Affirmative Action Man said :

Eastman is clearly barking mad & has been for a long time. There is plenty of evidence to support that he was a total nutter long before the Winchester issue.

If Eastman is allowed to be involved in the review it will go nowhere.

Exactly. If we want the whole issue solved, we need to do it in the absence of Eastman himself being in any way involved.

The reverse of this coin is, why has our justice system allowed Eastman to muddy the waters so comprehensively and for so long? Why did the AFP hire a psychologist with the express purpose of designing a complex project to mentally destabilise Eastman? Why is that “doctor” considered fit to practice despite a clear breach of his hippocratic oath? Why are the AFP and the DPP not under investigation for their long history of shenanigans in this case? They’ve presented an obviously faked and key witness statement, they’ve studiously avoided obvious leads, they’ve engaged in psychological warfare against a convenient nutter, and they’ve managed to make him convict himself despite not having any evidence whatsoever tying him to the crime.

Robertson 8:03 am 14 Nov 13

Dilandach said :

Just a pity that the system is content with pissing money up against the wall for this case. What is the point of going through it all really?

I’ll tell you exactly why: so long as Eastman is behind bars for this crime he likely didn’t commit, the Italians who likely did commit it and the AFP cops who were in cahoots with them, are getting off scot-free.

milkman 8:33 pm 13 Nov 13

Dear David Eastman (if you’re reading this),

You’re a LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY LOONY motherf*cker.

Lots of love,
The Helpful Fairy.

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