19 November 2013

Eastman mess highlighting the farce of the ACT Judicial System

| johnboy
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The Canberra Times has the make you cry news that the ACT Director of Public Prosecutions, having failed to apply within time, is seeking an extension so they can kibosh the inquiry into the Eastman conviction for the murder of Colin Winchester.

It gets better though because the Full Bench of the Supreme Court needs to hear the matter and they’ve all been involved at one time or another in David Eastman’s interminable shenanigans.

It all rather highlights that a city of 370,000 has no business trying to run a completely independent legal system and we really should just pay another state to do it for us.

Because we’re certainly not doing it well right now.

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One only has to look at the posts here to see that the Eastman case has raised more questions than it has answered. I would argue that this in itself is justification for the enquiry to go ahead, and for the DPP to pull its head in and leave it alone. As has been stated many times before – if the AFP and DPP have done their jobs properly, then they have nothing to fear.

Robertson said :

buzz819 said :

Blah Blah Blah Blah

I’ve stated the facts of the matter. Your ignorance of these facts is nothing to do with me, however I have provided enough info for you to look up Operation Seville all on your own and find out for yourself what was going on.

Good, Wikipedia, that will tell me an unbiased factual representation of what happened, not what some nut job thinks happened.

Good, I take that as an undertaking from you to inform yourself before making uninformed contributions.

Dunjno about Wikipedia, but you can start here:
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1301&dat=19890723&id=6LRYAAAAIBAJ&sjid=nucDAAAAIBAJ&pg=1434,2214145

Followed here by some some decent journalism dating from *before* the AFP’s corrupt investigation went off on its ‘convenient local nutter’ tangent:
http://www.canberracouriers.com.au/canberra-couriers-articles/1989/8/18/colin-winchester-and-the-calabrian-connection/

Soo… I read it, Winchester was investigated by the NCA, cleared of any wrong doings. His finances were investigated after his desth, again cleared of any corruption.

It even says in the article that The Calabrian mafia would rather work with the Police then shoot them??
Yes Op Seville seemed dodgy, but again, other Police were found to have acted wrongly, not Winchester??

That article seems to dispute your train of thoughts, but thanks.

Yawn…

“Eastman was found guilty. This is a fact. If you have any information to the contrary then get your evidence together and test it in a court of law.”

Eastman may have committed the crime, but nobody could prove it, so he was fitted-up and railroaded. I don’t mind so much for Eastman’s sake, but it upsets me for three reasons:

1/ It helped the incompetent AFP and the corrupt NSW Police sweep Operation Seville under the carpet.
2/ The real perps are still out there, if Eastman didn’t do it
3/ Whether he did it or not, convicting somebody on no evidence proves our justice system is unreliable and needs fixing.

buzz819 said :

Blah Blah Blah Blah

I’ve stated the facts of the matter. Your ignorance of these facts is nothing to do with me, however I have provided enough info for you to look up Operation Seville all on your own and find out for yourself what was going on.

Good, Wikipedia, that will tell me an unbiased factual representation of what happened, not what some nut job thinks happened.

Good, I take that as an undertaking from you to inform yourself before making uninformed contributions.

Dunjno about Wikipedia, but you can start here:
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1301&dat=19890723&id=6LRYAAAAIBAJ&sjid=nucDAAAAIBAJ&pg=1434,2214145

Followed here by some some decent journalism dating from *before* the AFP’s corrupt investigation went off on its ‘convenient local nutter’ tangent:
http://www.canberracouriers.com.au/canberra-couriers-articles/1989/8/18/colin-winchester-and-the-calabrian-connection/

Robertson said :

Write a book bro….

Thumper, you’re full of content-free contributions, but refuse to comment on the facts of the matter.

Let’s start with something simple:
Did the AFP’s ‘Operation Seville’ involve Winchester posing as a corrupt cop, helping the Calabrians with protection for their “authorised crop”?

Yes or No.
Or keep bull$hitting. Your choice.

Haha, you’re the one throwing accusations of conspiracies and corruption and you want me to justify it?

Eastman was found guilty. If you have any information to the contrary then get your evidence together and test it in a court of law.

Until then you’re just pissing in the wind.

I see you can’t handle the truth.

You talk about “conspiracies” to rationalise your state of denial.

Eastman’s conviction was utterly unsafe. No evidence was presented that proved Eastman did it. Nothing. It was a shambles and a circus and the AFP & DPP have something on their hands they are very embarrassed about.

Spiral said :

Proboscus said :

cranky said :

Rightly or wrongly, Eastman has been in custody now for over 17 years (?).

Has any other murderer (?) in the ACT copped such a sentence?

Without any apparent opportunity of parole?

What the hell gives with this case?

I remember a case in the ’80’s where a bloke killed his wife and his wife’s family. I assume he’s in the AMC.

Was that the one where he killed his girlfriend and her friend and made it look like a car accident towards Cooma, then after dating his dead girlfriend’s sister, killed her and the rest of her family in Richardson?

No evidence he was dating the sister. Had remained friends with,

IP

Proboscus said :

cranky said :

Rightly or wrongly, Eastman has been in custody now for over 17 years (?).

Has any other murderer (?) in the ACT copped such a sentence?

Without any apparent opportunity of parole?

What the hell gives with this case?

I remember a case in the ’80’s where a bloke killed his wife and his wife’s family. I assume he’s in the AMC.

Memory is terribly inaccurate (as courts and juries should know). He killed two teenage girls, one of them his under age girlfriend, and staged it as a car accident. Got away with it. But a few years later got blind drunk and murdered his dead girlfriend’s sister, her husband and their two very small children. Didn’t get away with that one, and the original incident was re-investigated and he was convicted of it too.

There are a handful of lifers in AMC who have been forgotten about. Corbell seems in no hurry to release any of them.

IP

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd6:50 pm 26 Nov 13

Robertson said :

Indeed, except in this case we have people throwing wild theories around without ever having been anywhere near the case.

What “wild theories”?

Was Operation Seville a reality? Yes.
Did Winchester pose as a bent cop on the ‘Nghandreta’s payroll? Yes.
Did the mafia grow a dope crop “authorised” by Winchester? Yes.
Did the crop get ripped off by gun-toting bent coppers from Sydney? Yes.
Did the mafia blame Winchester for double-crossing them? Yes.
How long did it take the AFP to follow the mafia lead? 4 years. Not a shred of work on this obvious lead until the trial was about to start.
And let’s not talk about Winchester – not as bent as the Calabrians were led to believe, but hardly a clean copper. Ask any small business owner who ever had him in their shop in the ’70s and ’80s. “You’re contributing to law and order today”, he would tell them as he took his freebies off their shelves.

Meanwhile, was *any* actual evidence produced that put Eastman at the scene of the crime? None. What. So. Ever.

Where’s the “wild theory”, huh?

You’re a denier and an apologist for an incompetent and corrupt justice system.

As for your other assumption, you are completely wrong. I know plenty about this case from keeping an eye on it from the night I saw the crime scene, subsequently chatting to defence and DPP lawyers. I’ve spoken to Eastman’s supposed alibi, whom the AFP terrified out of the picture so she couldn’t muddy their concocted case. I used to have drinks with Rod Campbell, the last of our investigative journalists. I was even interviewed by police myself as the investigation kicked off. I have, of course, met Eastman, so I’m not saying any of this because I actually want him out on our streets.

Maybe Thumper’s the one who should stop making uninformed contributions to this thread?

Sources?

Blah Blah Blah Blah

I’ve stated the facts of the matter. Your ignorance of these facts is nothing to do with me, however I have provided enough info for you to look up Operation Seville all on your own and find out for yourself what was going on.

Good, Wikipedia, that will tell me an unbiased factual representation of what happened, not what some nut job thinks happened.

Miracles Australia4:59 pm 26 Nov 13

Robertson said :

Write a book bro….

Thumper, you’re full of content-free contributions, but refuse to comment on the facts of the matter.

Let’s start with something simple:
Did the AFP’s ‘Operation Seville’ involve Winchester posing as a corrupt cop, helping the Calabrians with protection for their “authorised crop”?

Yes or No.
Or keep bull$hitting. Your choice.

Haha, you’re the one throwing accusations of conspiracies and corruption and you want me to justify it?

Eastman was found guilty. If you have any information to the contrary then get your evidence together and test it in a court of law.

Until then you’re just pissing in the wind.

That is what the Inquiry is all about…. presenting collected evidence to a court of law. So then you agree Eastman Inquiry should continue without interruption ?

Miracles Australia4:54 pm 26 Nov 13

Perhaps the issue we should all be focusing on as ACT Residents is not whether Eastman is guilty or innocent, but whether due process was adhered to and human rights maintained.. That is why Eastman should get his inquiry and why all ACT Residents should be demanding that it happens.

Write a book bro….

Thumper, you’re full of content-free contributions, but refuse to comment on the facts of the matter.

Let’s start with something simple:
Did the AFP’s ‘Operation Seville’ involve Winchester posing as a corrupt cop, helping the Calabrians with protection for their “authorised crop”?

Yes or No.
Or keep bull$hitting. Your choice.

buzz819 said :

Robertson said :

Indeed, except in this case we have people throwing wild theories around without ever having been anywhere near the case.

What “wild theories”?

Was Operation Seville a reality? Yes.
Did Winchester pose as a bent cop on the ‘Nghandreta’s payroll? Yes.
Did the mafia grow a dope crop “authorised” by Winchester? Yes.
Did the crop get ripped off by gun-toting bent coppers from Sydney? Yes.
Did the mafia blame Winchester for double-crossing them? Yes.
How long did it take the AFP to follow the mafia lead? 4 years. Not a shred of work on this obvious lead until the trial was about to start.
And let’s not talk about Winchester – not as bent as the Calabrians were led to believe, but hardly a clean copper. Ask any small business owner who ever had him in their shop in the ’70s and ’80s. “You’re contributing to law and order today”, he would tell them as he took his freebies off their shelves.

Meanwhile, was *any* actual evidence produced that put Eastman at the scene of the crime? None. What. So. Ever.

Where’s the “wild theory”, huh?

You’re a denier and an apologist for an incompetent and corrupt justice system.

As for your other assumption, you are completely wrong. I know plenty about this case from keeping an eye on it from the night I saw the crime scene, subsequently chatting to defence and DPP lawyers. I’ve spoken to Eastman’s supposed alibi, whom the AFP terrified out of the picture so she couldn’t muddy their concocted case. I used to have drinks with Rod Campbell, the last of our investigative journalists. I was even interviewed by police myself as the investigation kicked off. I have, of course, met Eastman, so I’m not saying any of this because I actually want him out on our streets.

Maybe Thumper’s the one who should stop making uninformed contributions to this thread?

You know, not one of your points is actual evidence, hearsay and speculation at best, but do go on….

I said it before, I’ll say it again, you crazy!

I’ve stated the facts of the matter. Your ignorance of these facts is nothing to do with me, however I have provided enough info for you to look up Operation Seville all on your own and find out for yourself what was going on.

Robertson said :

Indeed, except in this case we have people throwing wild theories around without ever having been anywhere near the case.

What “wild theories”?

Was Operation Seville a reality? Yes.
Did Winchester pose as a bent cop on the ‘Nghandreta’s payroll? Yes.
Did the mafia grow a dope crop “authorised” by Winchester? Yes.
Did the crop get ripped off by gun-toting bent coppers from Sydney? Yes.
Did the mafia blame Winchester for double-crossing them? Yes.
How long did it take the AFP to follow the mafia lead? 4 years. Not a shred of work on this obvious lead until the trial was about to start.
And let’s not talk about Winchester – not as bent as the Calabrians were led to believe, but hardly a clean copper. Ask any small business owner who ever had him in their shop in the ’70s and ’80s. “You’re contributing to law and order today”, he would tell them as he took his freebies off their shelves.

Meanwhile, was *any* actual evidence produced that put Eastman at the scene of the crime? None. What. So. Ever.

Where’s the “wild theory”, huh?

You’re a denier and an apologist for an incompetent and corrupt justice system.

As for your other assumption, you are completely wrong. I know plenty about this case from keeping an eye on it from the night I saw the crime scene, subsequently chatting to defence and DPP lawyers. I’ve spoken to Eastman’s supposed alibi, whom the AFP terrified out of the picture so she couldn’t muddy their concocted case. I used to have drinks with Rod Campbell, the last of our investigative journalists. I was even interviewed by police myself as the investigation kicked off. I have, of course, met Eastman, so I’m not saying any of this because I actually want him out on our streets.

Maybe Thumper’s the one who should stop making uninformed contributions to this thread?

You know, not one of your points is actual evidence, hearsay and speculation at best, but do go on….

I said it before, I’ll say it again, you crazy!

Indeed, except in this case we have people throwing wild theories around without ever having been anywhere near the case.

What “wild theories”?

Was Operation Seville a reality? Yes.
Did Winchester pose as a bent cop on the ‘Nghandreta’s payroll? Yes.
Did the mafia grow a dope crop “authorised” by Winchester? Yes.
Did the crop get ripped off by gun-toting bent coppers from Sydney? Yes.
Did the mafia blame Winchester for double-crossing them? Yes.
How long did it take the AFP to follow the mafia lead? 4 years. Not a shred of work on this obvious lead until the trial was about to start.
And let’s not talk about Winchester – not as bent as the Calabrians were led to believe, but hardly a clean copper. Ask any small business owner who ever had him in their shop in the ’70s and ’80s. “You’re contributing to law and order today”, he would tell them as he took his freebies off their shelves.

Meanwhile, was *any* actual evidence produced that put Eastman at the scene of the crime? None. What. So. Ever.

Where’s the “wild theory”, huh?

You’re a denier and an apologist for an incompetent and corrupt justice system.

As for your other assumption, you are completely wrong. I know plenty about this case from keeping an eye on it from the night I saw the crime scene, subsequently chatting to defence and DPP lawyers. I’ve spoken to Eastman’s supposed alibi, whom the AFP terrified out of the picture so she couldn’t muddy their concocted case. I used to have drinks with Rod Campbell, the last of our investigative journalists. I was even interviewed by police myself as the investigation kicked off. I have, of course, met Eastman, so I’m not saying any of this because I actually want him out on our streets.

Maybe Thumper’s the one who should stop making uninformed contributions to this thread?

bigfeet said :

Robertson said :

Nobody ever came close to actually proving beyond even the tiniest hint of a doubt that Eastman was the right guy, though.

There is of course a very small flaw in this statement.

You seem to conveniently forget that he WAS found guilty beyond reasonable doubt by a jury.

A jury that had all the evidence placed before it and unanimously came to that decision based on that evidence.

Yes, a minor inconvenience to those who think there is some great conspiracy. Eastman was found guilty beyond reasonable doubt by an unbiased jury of his peers. That is, people who actually listened to all the evidence and made a judgement upon that evidence.

Did the jury hear the evidence of the gun seller who says he sold the gun to somebody who didn’t even nearly match Eastman’s description?

No. The Jury did not hear all the evidence. The DPP didn’t even think of bringing the case to court while that witness was still alive.

In any case, what evidence did the jury hear?
Was Eastman at the crime scence? No.
Did Eastman buy the gun that killed Winchester? Fabricated witness statement.
Was there any forensic evidence tying Eastman to the crime? No.

Nothing. The conviction was supremely unsafe.

Proboscus said :

cranky said :

Rightly or wrongly, Eastman has been in custody now for over 17 years (?).

Has any other murderer (?) in the ACT copped such a sentence?

Without any apparent opportunity of parole?

What the hell gives with this case?

I remember a case in the ’80’s where a bloke killed his wife and his wife’s family. I assume he’s in the AMC.

Was that the one where he killed his girlfriend and her friend and made it look like a car accident towards Cooma, then after dating his dead girlfriend’s sister, killed her and the rest of her family in Richardson?

Proboscus said :

cranky said :

Rightly or wrongly, Eastman has been in custody now for over 17 years (?).

Has any other murderer (?) in the ACT copped such a sentence?

Without any apparent opportunity of parole?

What the hell gives with this case?

I remember a case in the ’80’s where a bloke killed his wife and his wife’s family. I assume he’s in the AMC.

Umm what about Scott McDougall? He has two life sentences no parole??

cranky said :

Rightly or wrongly, Eastman has been in custody now for over 17 years (?).

Has any other murderer (?) in the ACT copped such a sentence?

Without any apparent opportunity of parole?

What the hell gives with this case?

I remember a case in the ’80’s where a bloke killed his wife and his wife’s family. I assume he’s in the AMC.

Indeed, except in this case we have people throwing wild theories around without ever having been anywhere near the case.

Eastman guilty or not? I don’t know, I wasn’t in court to hear the evidence.

Maybe people like Massey are not guilty as well?

Not me.

And if the Masseys are not guilty of anything, you just have to add the word “yet”.

IP

Rightly or wrongly, Eastman has been in custody now for over 17 years (?).

Has any other murderer (?) in the ACT copped such a sentence?

Without any apparent opportunity of parole?

What the hell gives with this case?

bigfeet said :

Robertson said :

Nobody ever came close to actually proving beyond even the tiniest hint of a doubt that Eastman was the right guy, though.

There is of course a very small flaw in this statement.

You seem to conveniently forget that he WAS found guilty beyond reasonable doubt by a jury.

A jury that had all the evidence placed before it and unanimously came to that decision based on that evidence.

Yes, a minor inconvenience to those who think there is some great conspiracy. Eastman was found guilty beyond reasonable doubt by an unbiased jury of his peers. That is, people who actually listened to all the evidence and made a judgement upon that evidence.

So what? People have been executed in the USA and later found to be innocent. The Guildford Four and Birmingham Six were locked up for decades in England for being Irish and in the wrong place. A jury can be influenced by a high profile case, and the “need” to convict someone. A jury can be misled by the evidence placed before it, or not placed before it, by either side. We all know Eastman’s defence was managed by an idiot (himself), which has the potential to give the prosecution a free ride in our wonderful adversarial system.

If he is guilty and the evidence for it is and was strong enough, then no-one has anything to fear from this inquiry. Let it run its course and see what it says. Personally I am already finding some of the revelations to be quite worrying – his GP wanted the reward; secret psychiatrist reports were on the desk of the judge; the judge was fearful for his safety from Eastman…

IP

Robertson said :

I thought, oh well, they must have some kind of smoking gun to be so sure. But they didn’t. They had virtually nothing on him. He was out on bail for years before eventually going to trial. Meanwhile, the cops paid a psychologist to devise a plan for making him go even crazier, so by the time he made court he was completely incapable.

Psychiatrist, not psychologist.

IP

Robertson said :

Nobody ever came close to actually proving beyond even the tiniest hint of a doubt that Eastman was the right guy, though.

There is of course a very small flaw in this statement.

You seem to conveniently forget that he WAS found guilty beyond reasonable doubt by a jury.

A jury that had all the evidence placed before it and unanimously came to that decision based on that evidence.

Robertson said :

I thought, oh well, they must have some kind of smoking gun to be so sure. But they didn’t. They had virtually nothing on him. He was out on bail for years before eventually going to trial. Meanwhile, the cops paid a psychologist to devise a plan for making him go even crazier, so by the time he made court he was completely incapable.

In fact, I just remembered why they delayed the trial for so long – the german guy whose gun they decided had been used as the murder weapon – he was interviewed and said he definitely didn’t sell it to anybody fitting Eastman’s description, but to somebody else. The cops had to wait for this guy to die of cancer so he became unavailable as a defence witness. Then, they accepted a fabricated “witness statement” from the gun-seller’s neighbour, saying he’d seen Eastman in his street on that day, years previously. That ludicrous bit of fiction then went in as evidence. Pretty much the strongest thing they had, too.

IrishPete said :

The concept of Mr Eastman having access to rifles is really quite scary.

Interesting story in today’s CT. Sounds very Keystone Cops. The idea that the judge asked for police protection from a man who was on bail on a murder charge is quite flabbergasting – why wouldn’t he just remand him in custody, or tighten his bail conditions? Fortunately it wasn’t a judge-alone trial, as this evidence alone would be enough to declare the conviction unsafe. But there remains the possibility that the judge’s fearfulness prejudiced his advice to the jury.

And the DPP wanted to stop this circus… They are such killjoys.

Hmmm….I suppose it may have been the AFP that issued Eastman with his gun licence in the first place?
…..

Anyway, back to reality – The entire establishment were earnestly absolutely sure that they had their man. The fact they didn’t have enough evidence even to have him held on remand did not apparently ring any alarm bells. I remember asking somebody at the DPP, something to the effect of, “you’re not really going to try running a prosecution against Eastman based on a thin veneer of circumstancial evidence, are you?” and I was told, “he’s definitely the guy”.
No ifs, buts, maybes, or doubt.
I thought, oh well, they must have some kind of smoking gun to be so sure. But they didn’t. They had virtually nothing on him. He was out on bail for years before eventually going to trial. Meanwhile, the cops paid a psychologist to devise a plan for making him go even crazier, so by the time he made court he was completely incapable.

Like I said before, maybe he did it. Leaving no forensic evidence and no witnesses. Or maybe somebody else did it. Nobody ever came close to actually proving beyond even the tiniest hint of a doubt that Eastman was the right guy, though.

Robertson said :

Well, I think one of the early stories was they reckoned he was on a bicycle, because Gwen Winchester and others in the street never heard a car. Maybe they dropped it when they found gunshot residue in various places on the car.

That residue didn’t say much about the crime.

Who put it there?
When was it put there?

Eastman had had a couple of rifles in his car, so the “a-ha, gunshot residue!” moment was about as exciting as when the Yanks published photos of Saddam Hussein’s “terrorist practice planes”.

The concept of Mr Eastman having access to rifles is really quite scary.

Interesting story in today’s CT. Sounds very Keystone Cops. The idea that the judge asked for police protection from a man who was on bail on a murder charge is quite flabbergasting – why wouldn’t he just remand him in custody, or tighten his bail conditions? Fortunately it wasn’t a judge-alone trial, as this evidence alone would be enough to declare the conviction unsafe. But there remains the possibility that the judge’s fearfulness prejudiced his advice to the jury.

And the DPP wanted to stop this circus… They are such killjoys.

IP

HiddenDragon12:33 pm 25 Nov 13

“It all rather highlights that a city of 370,000 has no business trying to run a completely independent legal system and we really should just pay another state to do it for us.” – A-bloody-men to that, and we shouldn’t stop with the legal system.

aceofspades said :

Robertson said :

bigfeet said :

In their mind that makes them eminently more qualified than a trial judge and jury who heard every bit of evidence and found Eastman guilty, and of course they are much better informed than the many appeal judges who have also examined the case.

What evidence?

Was Eastman at the scene? Was there any forensic evidence linking Eastman to the crime? Did Eastman own the gun? Where is the gun?

All the jury heard was a circus. They definitely didn’t hear any hard evidence linking Eastman to the crime. He may well have done it, but not one shred of actual evidence was ever produced to support that scenario.
A scenario that included a bicycle as the getaway vehicle, if I remember correctly.
Eastman must have been a genius – speeding away by bicycle from the scene of a violent murder, with a rifle, without anybody seeing him, without arousing any suspicion, managing to rid himself of the rifle in such a permanent way as for it to never resurface, and then doubling down on that perfect crime by misbehaving so badly during his trial that the jury found him guilty on no evidence and the judge let them do it.

I don’t remember a bicycle, I remember gun shot residue on the rear vision mirror of a car used in the escape. I thought this was the prosecutions scenario. It seemed strange to me that somebody would take the time to adjust the mirror on a car they had just driven, while in a adrenalin fueled state, fleeing from their first professional hit.

Well, I think one of the early stories was they reckoned he was on a bicycle, because Gwen Winchester and others in the street never heard a car. Maybe they dropped it when they found gunshot residue in various places on the car.

That residue didn’t say much about the crime.

Who put it there?
When was it put there?

Eastman had had a couple of rifles in his car, so the “a-ha, gunshot residue!” moment was about as exciting as when the Yanks published photos of Saddam Hussein’s “terrorist practice planes”.

Robertson said :

bigfeet said :

In their mind that makes them eminently more qualified than a trial judge and jury who heard every bit of evidence and found Eastman guilty, and of course they are much better informed than the many appeal judges who have also examined the case.

What evidence?

Was Eastman at the scene? Was there any forensic evidence linking Eastman to the crime? Did Eastman own the gun? Where is the gun?

All the jury heard was a circus. They definitely didn’t hear any hard evidence linking Eastman to the crime. He may well have done it, but not one shred of actual evidence was ever produced to support that scenario.
A scenario that included a bicycle as the getaway vehicle, if I remember correctly.
Eastman must have been a genius – speeding away by bicycle from the scene of a violent murder, with a rifle, without anybody seeing him, without arousing any suspicion, managing to rid himself of the rifle in such a permanent way as for it to never resurface, and then doubling down on that perfect crime by misbehaving so badly during his trial that the jury found him guilty on no evidence and the judge let them do it.

I don’t remember a bicycle, I remember gun shot residue on the rear vision mirror of a car used in the escape. I thought this was the prosecutions scenario. It seemed strange to me that somebody would take the time to adjust the mirror on a car they had just driven, while in a adrenalin fueled state, fleeing from their first professional hit.

bigfeet said :

In their mind that makes them eminently more qualified than a trial judge and jury who heard every bit of evidence and found Eastman guilty, and of course they are much better informed than the many appeal judges who have also examined the case.

What evidence?

Was Eastman at the scene? Was there any forensic evidence linking Eastman to the crime? Did Eastman own the gun? Where is the gun?

All the jury heard was a circus. They definitely didn’t hear any hard evidence linking Eastman to the crime. He may well have done it, but not one shred of actual evidence was ever produced to support that scenario.
A scenario that included a bicycle as the getaway vehicle, if I remember correctly.
Eastman must have been a genius – speeding away by bicycle from the scene of a violent murder, with a rifle, without anybody seeing him, without arousing any suspicion, managing to rid himself of the rifle in such a permanent way as for it to never resurface, and then doubling down on that perfect crime by misbehaving so badly during his trial that the jury found him guilty on no evidence and the judge let them do it.

Proboscus said :

CraigT said :

buzz819 said :

I still find it funny that people think the mafia killed a high ranking Police officer over one crop of dope… The very idea is amusing in itself!

When you’ve stopped laughing about your most recent logical fallacy (argument from personal incredulity), you could research these guys:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%27Ndrangheta
and discover that it is exactly the sort of thing they actually do, and on top of that, they were known to have considered Winchester to have “double-crossed” them.

Ahhh Wikipedia – where every good cop should gather their evidence…

Translated: “I have no idea who Winchester was dealing with, and I have my eyes firmly closed to ensure I remain in a state of ignorance”.

CraigT said :

buzz819 said :

I still find it funny that people think the mafia killed a high ranking Police officer over one crop of dope… The very idea is amusing in itself!

When you’ve stopped laughing about your most recent logical fallacy (argument from personal incredulity), you could research these guys:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%27Ndrangheta
and discover that it is exactly the sort of thing they actually do, and on top of that, they were known to have considered Winchester to have “double-crossed” them.

Ahhh Wikipedia – where every good cop should gather their evidence…

vg said :

3/4 of the Einstein’s commenting on this were either not born or still soiling their pants when Eastman killed AC Winchester in ’89…….but they know it all.

How Gen Y of you

Whatever. I wasn’t even in the country. But sometimes distance can make you more objective.

It is unusual for someone to be convicted without the murder weapon ever being found, because that’s usually what links them to the murder. The gunshot residue in the car boot is a really weak link, even before you consider that the forensic scientist may have been incompetent and subjective.

There are lots of aspects of the case which were unusual, even taking 6 years to get to a conviction, with the suspect/defendant at large or on bail and not running away or “re-“offending or trying to kill the jury or judge.

Eastman would be in the same place today if the DPP had bothered to pursue all the assault charges he is alleged to have racked up. But they didn’t. Not many people argue that he should be on the streets. I doubt he would last long anyway, before getting another assault/stalking/harassment/threats-to-kill charge.

But if there is someone out there who did kill a chief police officer and got away with it, I think that’s really serious.

IP

vg said :

3/4 of the Einstein’s commenting on this were either not born or still soiling their pants when Eastman killed AC Winchester in ’89…….but they know it all.

Oh come on VG, these experts have read a couple of articles by Jack Waterford and have also been told by someone who knew someone’s brother who heard that his neighbor may or may not have bought a bag of pot from an ACT cop at some indeterminate time in the past.

In their mind that makes them eminently more qualified than a trial judge and jury who heard every bit of evidence and found Eastman guilty, and of course they are much better informed than the many appeal judges who have also examined the case.

3/4 of the Einstein’s commenting on this were either not born or still soiling their pants when Eastman killed AC Winchester in ’89…….but they know it all.

How Gen Y of you

CraigT said :

Treacle said :

A recent media article alleges a reward claim by Eastman’s doctor reporting to police an alleged threat made by Eastman against Winchester.

Eastman thretened to kill almost everybody he ever had dealings with. None of them are dead, apart from Winchester.

The ‘Ndrangheta *also* threatened to kill Eastman.

Who’s the more convincing threat?

Ooops – what I meant of course was,
[b]The ‘Ndrangheta *also* threatened to kill Winchester.[/b]

Tooks said :

Nice conspiracy theory Robbo. Complete bulls*** of course but interesting. I think a lot of crackpots will be disappointed at the outcome of this inquiry. The right man is behind bars, which is exactly where the maggot belongs.

I won’t be drawn into an argument so don’t waste your time replying.

What’s “interesting”?

Was Winchester bent?
(Is Ninness dead yet? As soon as he dies we can talk about him, too.)

Was Operation Seville real?

Was the crop ripped off by bent cops?

Did the crop make it to market with apparently no interference by the police whose “authorised crop” it was supposed to be?

Did the mafia get upset about being ripped off by bent cops?

Was Eastman an amazingly convenient nutter to scapegoat for the mafia revenge-killing in order to avoid scrutiny of the vast extent of police corruption and incompetence that led to Winchester’s death?

simsim said :

Here’s the thing, though. He’s been through a trial. He’s been convicted. How “proven guilty” do you want “proven guity” to be?

What evidence was there?

None.

One fabricated statement by a police witness.
No actual witness. No forensic evidence. No gun. Not a scrap of evidence. The conviuction was an utter joke.

Treacle said :

A recent media article alleges a reward claim by Eastman’s doctor reporting to police an alleged threat made by Eastman against Winchester.

Eastman thretened to kill almost everybody he ever had dealings with. None of them are dead, apart from Winchester.

The ‘Ndrangheta *also* threatened to kill Eastman.

Who’s the more convincing threat?

buzz819 said :

I still find it funny that people think the mafia killed a high ranking Police officer over one crop of dope… The very idea is amusing in itself!

When you’ve stopped laughing about your most recent logical fallacy (argument from personal incredulity), you could research these guys:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%27Ndrangheta
and discover that it is exactly the sort of thing they actually do, and on top of that, they were known to have considered Winchester to have “double-crossed” them.

Canberroid said :

Tooks said :

Nice conspiracy theory Robbo. Complete bulls*** of course but interesting. I think a lot of crackpots will be disappointed at the outcome of this inquiry. The right man is behind bars, which is exactly where the maggot belongs.

Whatever happened to “innocent until proven guilty”?

Here’s the thing, though. He’s been through a trial. He’s been convicted. How “proven guilty” do you want “proven guity” to be?

buzz819 said :

I still find it funny that people think the mafia killed a high ranking Police officer over one crop of dope… The very idea is amusing in itself!

It wasn’t the one crop of dope which was the problem.

Tooks said :

Nice conspiracy theory Robbo. Complete bulls*** of course but interesting. I think a lot of crackpots will be disappointed at the outcome of this inquiry. The right man is behind bars, which is exactly where the maggot belongs.

Whatever happened to “innocent until proven guilty”?

I still find it funny that people think the mafia killed a high ranking Police officer over one crop of dope… The very idea is amusing in itself!

Tooks said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

Tooks said :

Nice conspiracy theory Robbo. Complete bulls*** of course but interesting. I think a lot of crackpots will be disappointed at the outcome of this inquiry. The right man is behind bars, which is exactly where the maggot belongs.

I won’t be drawn into an argument so don’t waste your time replying.

Haha it’s always lol when you say that, yet cannot stop yourself from replying.

Shhh. I was trying to get a reply from Robbo. Btw, find me a thread (other than this one) where I’ve said I won’t reply and then gone against my word. Bet you can’t. In fact I’ll put $50 on it.

In all honesty, although I think the right man is locked up, I think the inquiry is a good thing given the 19 points raised. I just think some of these conspiracy theories, while entertaining, are pretty loopy.

Eastman wasn’t a “convenient scapegoat” as some like to say. Mafia were in the frame early and Eastman wasn’t considered a serious suspect until months later.

A recent media article alleges a reward claim by Eastman’s doctor reporting to police an alleged threat made by Eastman against Winchester.

Tooks said :

Antagonist said :

Special G said :

It’s the DPP’s job to appeal something which is going to take millions of dollars and prosecutors away from doing their job running around after something which has been appealed ‘how many times’?

I would expect they could spend the resources better sorting out the Supreme Court backlog or focusing on other prosecutions.

If the DPP was so concerned with saving millions of taxpayer dollars and having prosecutors taken away from their jobs, then why did it take them 15 months to get off their overpaid lazy asses to lodge a late appeal? Their procrastination has, in fact, cost the taxpayer MORE money.

Overpaid? Lol. I guess you don’t know what a typical prosecutor earns.

Considerably more than a solicitor in a small – medium sized private practice and with a lesser case load!

Affirmative Action Man12:00 pm 20 Nov 13

Lots of jurisdictions in Australia have a high profile case or two where the police, DPP and the Courts have got it wrong and made spectacular stuff ups. Ours just happens to be the Eastman case.

Antagonist said :

Special G said :

It’s the DPP’s job to appeal something which is going to take millions of dollars and prosecutors away from doing their job running around after something which has been appealed ‘how many times’?

I would expect they could spend the resources better sorting out the Supreme Court backlog or focusing on other prosecutions.

If the DPP was so concerned with saving millions of taxpayer dollars and having prosecutors taken away from their jobs, then why did it take them 15 months to get off their overpaid lazy asses to lodge a late appeal? Their procrastination has, in fact, cost the taxpayer MORE money.

Overpaid? Lol. I guess you don’t know what a typical prosecutor earns.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

Tooks said :

Nice conspiracy theory Robbo. Complete bulls*** of course but interesting. I think a lot of crackpots will be disappointed at the outcome of this inquiry. The right man is behind bars, which is exactly where the maggot belongs.

I won’t be drawn into an argument so don’t waste your time replying.

Haha it’s always lol when you say that, yet cannot stop yourself from replying.

Shhh. I was trying to get a reply from Robbo. Btw, find me a thread (other than this one) where I’ve said I won’t reply and then gone against my word. Bet you can’t. In fact I’ll put $50 on it.

In all honesty, although I think the right man is locked up, I think the inquiry is a good thing given the 19 points raised. I just think some of these conspiracy theories, while entertaining, are pretty loopy.

Eastman wasn’t a “convenient scapegoat” as some like to say. Mafia were in the frame early and Eastman wasn’t considered a serious suspect until months later.

Special G said :

It’s the DPP’s job to appeal something which is going to take millions of dollars and prosecutors away from doing their job running around after something which has been appealed ‘how many times’?

I would expect they could spend the resources better sorting out the Supreme Court backlog or focusing on other prosecutions.

If the DPP was so concerned with saving millions of taxpayer dollars and having prosecutors taken away from their jobs, then why did it take them 15 months to get off their overpaid lazy asses to lodge a late appeal? Their procrastination has, in fact, cost the taxpayer MORE money.

It’s the DPP’s job to appeal something which is going to take millions of dollars and prosecutors away from doing their job running around after something which has been appealed ‘how many times’?

I would expect they could spend the resources better sorting out the Supreme Court backlog or focusing on other prosecutions.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd7:59 pm 19 Nov 13

Tooks said :

Nice conspiracy theory Robbo. Complete bulls*** of course but interesting. I think a lot of crackpots will be disappointed at the outcome of this inquiry. The right man is behind bars, which is exactly where the maggot belongs.

I won’t be drawn into an argument so don’t waste your time replying.

Haha it’s always lol when you say that, yet cannot stop yourself from replying.

Sorry Tooks,

I’m with posters #6 & #7. The effort the DPP is going to, to disable this enquiry, positively demands the question as to why. And I do not believe that waste of public money is their incentive.

Sorry, but this is not the only case harking back to the 70’s and 80’s that investigations conducted by the ACT AFP have raised questions on the conduct of investigations.

IrishPete said :

… the DPP’s actions are really suspicious. In whose interest is it to stop this inquiry now, or to limit it? It’s certainly not “in the public interest”.

So the DPP should just leave it alone and let the inquiry get on with its job. Pompous asses.

+1. It is very much within ‘the public interest’ that this enquiry go ahead.

Nice conspiracy theory Robbo. Complete bulls*** of course but interesting. I think a lot of crackpots will be disappointed at the outcome of this inquiry. The right man is behind bars, which is exactly where the maggot belongs.

I won’t be drawn into an argument so don’t waste your time replying.

The DPP at the time were thoroughly sold on the AFP’s (or, to be more specific, …no, he may still be alive…) work of (likely) fiction pinning the blame on a convenient local nutter.

They are still embarrassed at the idea that the case they prepared and the appalling circus that ensued in court should be exposed to any avoidable scrutiny.

I wouldn’t compare the DPP with Eddie Obeid. I’d compare them with the 6 players banned from playing in the next test against Ireland for hanging around nightclubs instead of trying to do something about their poor performance. Incompetent. Delusional. Overpaid.

The Eddie Obeids of the Winchester affair are largely retired AFPers.
Here’s a question: how much of the Operation Seville “AFP-authorised” dope-crop was destroyed by the cops, and how much made it to market? Would you be astounded to hear the figure “95%”?
Why wasn’t *that* investigated? Maybe because a conveniently disruptive circus involving a nutter called Eastman was engineered to take the heat off the real issue?

I try to to steer clear of conspiracy theories, but the DPP’s actions are really suspicious. In whose interest is it to stop this inquiry now, or to limit it? It’s certainly not “in the public interest”. And any fool knows that any little twist in a case involving Eastman is complicated by everyone in Canberra with any connection with the legal system having profited from his case at some point.

So the DPP should just leave it alone and let the inquiry get on with its job. Pompous asses.

IP

Affirmative Action Man2:54 pm 19 Nov 13

It makes a mockery of the Justice System AND a total conflict of interest that the DPP is allowed to appeal this. A bit like giving Eddy Obeid the power of veto over whether he should be investigated.

PantsMan said :

It’s like they’ve really got someting to hide!

I agree, why not just have 100% transparency with all information and evidence to do with this case? It is now within the public interest, it will probably expose bad investigatory techniques and mistakes with evidence and well………. he just might be crazy innocent.

It’s like they’ve really got someting to hide!

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