30 April 2008

Enslave Tibet! Sheepy the awkward protester at the Canberra torch relay. *Video*

| TheHunters
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Sheepy of the hunters takes on the Chinese rent-a-crowd at the Beijing torch relay in Canberra! Armed with a camera and an “Enslave Tibet” sign, Sheepy sets out on a solo mission to express his undying love for the motherland, CHINA!

[ED – Anyone who has no idea what this video is about have a look at this comment here in the Torch relay thread by TroyWilliams. The video’s poster, TheHunters, even goes so far as quote Troy & the-RiotACT to describe their Chaser style prank. Well Done TheHunter, Sheepy, et al!]

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I’m a repubican (so to speak), but I’m unintelligent and can’t read … lol

Rudd gathered 1000 of Australia’s brightest people, almost 100% were in favour of a republic.

Studies have shown that on average ACT residents are the smartest and highest paid people in Australia. In the referendum a majority of the ACT were in favour of a republic.

Therefore, monarchists are stupid.

I don’t know what all this debate is about… Pigeons are rats – they just have feathers instead of fur.

I was talking about you saying that you though Rudd is only doing what Howard would have done. I pointed out a few examples to prove you are incorrect in your idea.

Then i responded to your comment about whether or not the 2020 summit proved support for Rudd. I responded by saying the summit has nothing to do with what i was talking about. I was talking about polls.

Then i made a comment of a ‘no, you’re a dick’ sort of quality.

lol @ “The committee to set up the working group will ultimately have to show how inventing a pigeon rat will help Working Families before funding can be allocated to set up a working group to appoint a committee to investigate the feasibility of inventing a pigeon rat.”

…I’m sure DoHA and FACSIA are cooperatively working on it right now…

lol @p1 too…

You two should stop flirting and just get a room :o)

You believe Rudd. Great. but you also believe everything he has changed is only ‘alcopops’. You think John Howard would have apologised? even though he refused to do so? You believe John Howard would have signed Kyoto? Even though he refused to do so? You believe John Howard would have rolled back work choices, even though he implemented it and refused to roll it back? Im very interested in your logic behind beliving those things.

I didn’t mention the 2020 summit at all. I mentioned polls. Which indicate Rudd has around 70% approval. Don’t try and change the subject matter, it doesn’t add to your argument.

Agreed it will happen, im looking forward to it.

For the record your started being patronising before me, when you said “And you asked again, so I replied. Which I’m beginning to think you have a problem with. Therefore, if you don’t want an answer, then don’t ask a question.” – i merely responded in kind.

No no im glad you answered, now we discuss it. See how it works?

Ok so you think everything the government has done is nothing. Well I think you are mistaken. Frankly its ridiculous. In five months they have done plenty. Over the next few years we should see the fruits of the seeds they are planting and have planted. The examples I gave you think are meaningless, I don’t. You think they are meaningless because… they are only starting points to solve massive problems? because John Howard wouldn’t have agreed? Because you dislike Rudd as person maybe?

Also we have already discussed your idea that only a election is a guide to what the population is thinking, that is also ridiculous. Recent polls are a better indicator of what the population is thinking than an old election. This has been proved numerous times. As an example (used before on a previous post…) why was John Howard worried before last election, according to your idea he should have been happy because he won the last election. Peoples opinions change over time, polls are taken to try to get a grasp of how people are feeling. We can use them on RiotACT as a guide to how people feel.

Ok so he has signed kyoto, apologised, began changing workchoices to name but a few. Isn’t he pulling out of iraq soon as well? He has done things so far. I dispute this ‘fact’ that these things are merely symbolic. Or just populist, maybe popular, but he cant help it if australia agrees with what he is doing. But yes, too short a period, too use your own words ‘jumping the gun a bit aren’t we?’

The committee to set up the working group will ultimately have to show how inventing a pigeon rat will help Working Families before funding can be allocated to set up a working group to appoint a committee to investigate the feasibility of inventing a pigeon rat.

I’d say you pre-judged the K-Rudd, you may be right, but we don’t know yet.

Pigeon rat. Ah the simpsons. 🙂

I’m sure that, if anyone is going to invent a pigeon rat, Mr Rudd can do it.

But considering he hasnt had time to prove himself one way or another, it follows that your opinion is without base and you should really reserve judgements like that until some evidence surfaces one way or another.

thumper said:

… and ensuring that he (Rudd) goes down in history as the greatest of all ALP leaders 😉

If he manages to invent a pigeon rat, that is assured.

I dont agree to that.

Nah kidding, just cant pass up an opportunity for a simpsons quote. Agreeing to disagree is fine.

You didn’t answer why you think he is pushing for a republic for self serving purposes, just why you think he is pushing for a republic. But whatever.

Thumper: Once more for luck. You ignored the original point of our dialog, what evidence do you have that K-Rudd is only after an australian republic for self serving purposes, and not perhaps that he just thinks its the way australia should go? If you ignore this again then ill just have to assume silence is how admit you were making assumptions with no evidence?

Ok to answer your points against mine.

I dont think it is far fetched to think that Australia would do some serious re thinking about who it is and what it is if we got rid of the monarchy. I do not see how you can dismiss that possibility you calling it a mother statement or whatever may be all well and good, but can you really argue that it definately wouldn’t happen? Of course not.

I dont see why nationalism would be increased by becoming a republic. I see nationalism as something that comes from being insecure, not being proud. When i said we were an asian country i meant where we actually are in the world, not who colonised us. but you are just getting into semantics here so unless you think there is an important point here ill leave this one alone.

At the end of the day Thumper, we belong to the queen, not oursleves. Thats the monarchy. Maybe only symbolically but its still true.

Having AC/DC (or men at work maybe) as our national anthem would make a huge difference thumper! I wouldn’t be embarrased when it gets played for one thing.

Our flag has the union jack on it. Thats england (yes people who sent convicts over here when there was no more room on their island, i dont dispute that), not australia.

You missed the merit not parents point, and DMDs point that real constitutional change could occur (dont ask me for details about that however, i just want to kick out the queen).

Your points:
You seem to have changed track from nothing will change to the sky will fall. Fair enough. You did not make any other arguments, comment 19 is the only one where you say anything.

Prime Minister is not the head of state Thumper. The head of state is born into it. We can’t get that job. In saying you like the monarchy, you are saying you are happy being born into a world where people are born to rule you. Even if only in a symbolic way. Shit even Maelinar is lord of something or whatever. This may be one of the ‘not perfect’ bits you are talking about, but you have to agree this is true.

Money, whatever, its worth it.

That was a long time ago now and yes, about half the republicans voted against the republic model that was being voted on, that does not make against change or for a monrachy. I would be massively surprised if monarchists in australia are anywhere close to being 50% of the population.

Your third point is much like your first, and again its worth it. I dont see that as a reason not to go forward at all, just something that we should be aware of as we go forward.

Im sure the role of the states etc would go unchanged i actually agree with your earlier sentiments that this change would be largely symbolic. But the idea that we would have states splitting off from australia is a bit far fetched, and not a reason not to go ahead, again just something that will need to be worked out.

Ok we don’t know what some issues may be, just as we don’t know what some benefits may be.

The Republic of Australia is not airy to me. To me it doesn’t make sense not to.

Deadmandrinking11:49 pm 30 Apr 08

Not to mention it’s an opportunity to rewrite our entire constitution, Tap.

err the numbering is a little munted but one last reason, which was mentioned earlier but ill state again. That the monarchy is an outdated system that should go. In this day and age having a head of state that is born into the position is plain ridiculous. Merit, not who your muumy and daddy are is what should get a person to a position like that.

Thumper: You ignored the original point of our dialog, what evidence do you have that K-Rudd is only after an australian republic for self serving purposes, and not perhaps that he just thinks its the way australia should go?

As far as me having an inferiority complex, I do not think I do… maybe a bit, whatever i dont know but thats not what im talking about. I tried to explain this in the last comment but ill try again. Im talking about the same sort of thing as ‘a person is smart, but people are stupid.’ (not calling australians stupid, just using it as an example) Im not talking about us individually, im just saying that our countries need to succeed above and beyond what a country of our population really should in sport seems to me to show that australia needs to prove itself a little too much. This is just an example, Australia being the ‘deputy sheriff’ or whatever it was is the same sort of thing.

I answer again:

1. The chance that changing to a republic will shake up many inbuilt beliefs, increase our chances of becoming a nation that is more secure in itself.

2. Perhaps if we lose our official ties england we will seriously begin to view ourselves as an asian country, which may lessen bigotry in australia.

3. We will belong to us. (insert braveheart speech here… freeeeeeeedom!)

4. We could change our god awful national anthem.

5. And our flag would represent us, not some offshoot if the empire.

4. The only argument I have heard contrary is ‘it wont change anything’. This to me means basically we have nothing to lose and potentially something to gain. So I ask you, why not?

Republicanism is really nothing more than symbolism, albeit, symbolism in a big way.

Constitutional reform, to be fair, is a hell of a lot more than just symbolism.

That was a question not a statement Thumper… tut tut, misquoting…

But I do agree, it is too early to tell that, just as it is too early to tell if he is full of hot air or not.

Nothing like booting out a monarchy to shake up some ingrained beliefs though hey?

I was referring to us as a nation, which is different to the nationals individuals. I think the sport analogy is one reason that makes us seem like we have an inferiority complex.

Tap said:

tap said :

belief that Rudd’s ultimate goal is to lead his country to a republic. Da da daaa! … Personally I believe his ultimate goal is to genetically engineer a pigeon rat.

I am not quite sure I understand this, but still find it bloody funny.

Ok but why do you think that Rudd wants to have his name down in history as one of australias greatest leaders, or something akin to it? Perhaps he just is one of australias greatest leaders? What makes you think he is out for fame? anymoreso than any other politician anyway.

More to the point… i guess… No wait, not more to the point at all. More to what you want to speak about: Why I think a republic would be a good thing. Lots of reasons really but the main ones (off the top of my head) are that I really would like to have a president as opposed to a king or queen. Im seriously against people being born into position, its outdated and makes me sick. Number 2 Perhaps if we were our own country it would be a step towards lessening australias inferiority complex which drives us, among other things, to spend way to much time, effort, pride and especially money into sport. It may very well help us to grow up as a nation. What about you? (not to hijack this post about the enslave tibet guy…)

And the second half Thumper, why its a bad thing? Is the fact that labor policy is the (i wont use the word ultimate…)goal of the labor leader some kind of a secret conspiracy? Whats your point?

The way you worded it made it sound like Rudd was either after the republic for some secret conspiratorial reason, or that he is only doing it for self serving purposes. I would like to know why you think either of those.

and stray… im just happy you’re thinking of burritos.

‘politburo’ – mmm, makes me think of burritos…nom nom

Thumper: Why do you believe that? If you are right, why is it a bad thing? Not the 2020 unrepresentative blah blah blah we’ve already covered that but you’re belief that Rudd’s ultimate goal is to lead his country to a republic. Da da daaa!

Personally I believe his ultimate goal is to genetically engineer a pigeon rat.

If Rudd and Stanhope get their way we will become the People’s Republic of Australia – just look at the 2020 summit.

We already have a ‘politburo’ (aka 2020 summit) where 1,000 undemocratically specially appointed people came together to ruber-stamp the Rudd Government’s manifesto.

CanberraGreen10:39 am 30 Apr 08

It’s interesting that in the People’s Republic of the ACT where Chairman Jon goes on, and on, and on about human rights he has rolled over so meekly a guy’s right to quietly ‘protest’ without causing too much trouble. Maybe we are in China?

Did anything more happen? I like the premise, it was a great idea, but just seemed to meander off into pointlessness… other than further showing the behaviour of the pro-chinese ruffians. ABC TV and radio seem to be the only media (other than there) that’ve really tried to tell that story.

And no, we have no “right to free speech” here in Australia. We actually have many legislated laws that limit speech. There’s anti-vilification laws, and of course our amazing defamation laws. And I’m pretty sure truth still isn’t an absolute defence ie what you say can be true, and still held to be defamatory.

Shows the power of the positive statement.

Much better than the pro Chinese guy shouting “No Free Tibet!” as he was arrested and escorted away. Gave exactly the opposite message to what he was trying to achieve and no doubt he will be recycled for body parts on return to China in one of those large black buses the Chinese use.

@RuffNReady & DMD: There is no “Freedom of Speech” enshrined in the Australian Constitution, nor is it explicitly mentioned in any legislation.

We -do- have an implied right to freedom of communication on political matters which has been seen to exist by the High Court of Australia on at least two occasions, also recognised that comment on public affairs and discussion relating to politics (as in concerning social relationships and structures concerned with authority or power) are indivisible.

This is only an implied right so potentially huge in scope, but is not guaranteed to apply to all circumstances everywhere.
If the policeman takes your protest sign, getting him to respect the non-written parts of the Constitution at the time will prove difficult unless you also have a QC-on-a-leash nearby.

BeyondThought7:15 am 30 Apr 08

Well done TheHunters, RA and others.

Troy for Mayor!!! Err, Chief Minister. RA Should sponsor him in the Council Elections as the Riot-Act candidate. If the bushfire peoples can have their own party, can’t wel

Deadmandrinking11:51 pm 29 Apr 08

I’ve heard freedom of speech is not actually in the constitution.

Why did the cop take his sign? I thought we had freedom of speech.

Deadmandrinking11:42 pm 29 Apr 08

I saw that d*ckhead. I chuckled to myself, then shook my head for humanity.

Agreed. 5 minutes too long.

Well, it started off well, but after the cop pinched his sign, and all you could hear was overplayed commercial music, I got rather bored with it. And turned it off (bandwidth costs money you know).

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