20 July 2009

Falun Gong take it to the streets

| johnboy
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[First filed: July 18, 2009 @ 22:08]

Around midday this Saturday I was collecting some roast duck and noodles from the exemplary Tak Kee Roast Inn in Dickson and was a little surprised, as I walked back to the car, to see a column of traffic approaching all bearing placards bolted on to roof racks.

The Falun Gong organ, the Epoch Times, has an AAP story explaining that the Gongers are trying to use the Stern Hu hysteria to demonise the Chinese Government, particularly as it relates to their own oppression:

    While the world watches China’s handling of the Stern Hu affair, former residents took to the streets of Canberra on Saturday as a reminder of their decade-long battle for freedom.

    Falun Gong disciple Elliot Fan led an unusual convoy of cars around the city to mark the 10th anniversary of the day Falun Gong was suddenly declared illegal.

While I have some doubts about Stern Hu’s innocence (and consider that the main reason for the Australian Government’s silence) I’ll admit to an admiration of Falun Gong’s persistent protest.

(Trying to separate anti-chinese sentiment from anti-chinese government sentiment probably isn’t a bad idea either.)

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Just viewed this blog and would like to add my own experience.
I am an aussie mum 49years old and have been practicing FG for 7 years. It is the best thing I have ever done and will continue being a practitioner. Yes all the claims about health improvement, spiritual improvement and peace of mind are correct. After suffering severe sinus, asthma, low blood pressure all my life…Doctors,naturopaths, operations could not cure me…Falun Gong did, within one month of self teaching the exercises and reading Zhuan Falun, all these life long illnesses disappeared.
Not only my health has improved but my whole outlook on life has changed for the better.
The teachings of Li Hongzhi have made me more tolerant, caring and truthful.

The blogs from kzx33 show the full propaganda and hatred the ccp spouts and the devastation it has on moral and spiritual behaviour. This person has been another victim of the ccp.

Jenny said: “The fact that a group ( such as FLG) advocates its fake healing power…
# 33-34

Jenny, It looks to me you have been tainted severely by the work of the communist propaganda machine, which tries to muddy the waters of a clean and pure group of people.

As I have explained previously in this thread FG is not a cult: “There is no membership; there is no list of names; there is no building; there is no- prayer- nor worship. Some easy to learn exercises are practised at peoples convenience somewhere in a park. There is no secrecy of teachings; 100% of the teachings are available from the internet. There is no initiation ceremony; anybody can come or go when they like. There is no hierarchy, though there are event coordinators. There is no asking for monetary contributions; somebody who can afford it contributes for a particular event.

FG has spread to about 80 different countries. If it was a dangerous cult as the CCP claims how come that there are no court cases against it in any of those countries. How come that nobody has set themselves on fire in any of these countries or jumped out of windows, events like that being a common occurrence in China according to the CCP.”
If FG had fake healing power, as Jenny claims, how come that 70-100 million people were practising FG before
the start of the persecution? Wouldn’t the message get around that people’s improvements were fake? If they were fake FG wouldn’t have lasted for a year. Because such vast health improvements took place people had not to depend as much on medicine as they used to. There is no such thing that a FG practitioner is not allowed to take medicine. If people get such tremendous help does that make it a cult? Apart from that, the purpose of FG is not at all to heal illness, it is to cultivate to become a better person, which together with doing some simple exercises, can have extraordinary positive effects.

Jenny also mentions FG is not interested in a “democratic China”. Democracy may be good for China, but it has nothing to do with FG; FG is a-political. The Communist Party tortures and kills FG practitioners. That is the truth that FG practitioners want to tell the world, because it is a crime against humanity that must be told and that must sooner or later be brought before an international court. If one wants to bring a murderer to justice that is not politics and that is not cultism either.
Jenny thinks that the claim of organ harvesting of FG practitioners is too far-fetched. One only has to “google” organ harvesting to find that a very thorough investigation was carried out by highly qualified people. Included are transcripts from telephone conversations ordering and inquiring about the quality of the organs. It is indeed difficult to believe that such a thing can happen. But is happening and it would make one a partner in crime not to tell this to the world.
Jenny finds it reasonable to accept that the CCP started persecuting FG the way the practitioners behaved at the time. The scientist, Jennifer Zeng, lived through that period and has given an account of it in her compelling book “one woman’s fight for freedom and Falun Gong – witnessing history”. Basically what happened was that peaceful FG practitioners started to get harassed more and more by the CCP, followed in 1998 by some arrests. FG practitioners then peacefully approached the government asking on what ground they were arrested. This followed by more arrests and peaceful demonstrations. That was a prelude to the crackdown that started in 1999 and the order was to eradicate FG in 3 months. To achieve that, a gestapo like 610 office was set up and a slanderous propaganda campaign of lies was instigated to turn the Chinese people against FG.
Extracts from Jennifer’s book and interviews can be found by googling “Jennifer Zeng”.
I agree with the ending of your comment, Jenny: “So in the face of the persecution of FG in China, and the lies spread by the CCP about FG, I have to tell people the truth, Falun Gong has only ever taught people to be kind, to be good.” Whether you can discern the good from the evil is up to you, both are freely available. But the outcome of your choice would make a huge difference.

The facts are, FG was supported by the Chinese government during the 7 years (1992-1999) prior to its ban. In 1999 the Chinese governement cracked down on FG because its popularity posed a threat to the CCP, between 70-100 million people were practising FG in China at the time. As early as 1994, the Chinese government tried to gain control of FG and make money off it. They approached the founder and tried to endorse and charge money for the practise. The founder, Master Li Hong Zhi said no, as FG was a spiritual discipline for the health of the people, and it was not for sale. It was actually the government who tried to caplitalize on the practise.

FG does not “lure” its followers, its popularity in China and around the world is due to it genuinely being righteous. It genuinely teaches people to be good.

I’d like to share my own experience, since my early childhood I’ve grown up in an unhappy family, for as long as I could remember, domestic violence was a serious issue in my household – for the most part of my chilhood/teens. It hurt me for a long time, to remember snippets of my life back then. Living in womens refuges, hotels was the norm for mum and us. Mum had developed back/spinal problems due to being beaten. My sister was on the verge of having a mental disorder and had to take medication. As I grew up, the pain has never eased off and almost consumed me. My dad had an affair after mum took him back. There were times when I thought I wouldn’t make it. All that is in the past, I’m now in my mid 20s, finished uni/grad school and undertaking a PhD degree at one of the best universities in Australia. All my life, my pain has been what others, namely what an irresponsible parent has imposed on me. But now, I really feel no sadness or hatred. And our family is still in one piece and closer than ever, we have all forgiven.

That’s the power of FG, not only does it cure illnesses, it heals the heart. I’m one person out of the hundreds of millions of people who have benefited from the practise of Falun Gong. Hunderds of millions each with their own story and from all walks of life. So in the face of the persecution of FG in China, and the lies spread by the CCP about FG, I have to tell people the truth, Falun Gong has only ever taught people to be kind, to be good.

In Australia (and other western countries) they claim the effect of practicing FalunGong is to achieve inner peace, harmony, reduce stress and etc. But back in China, FalunGong understood that this is not attractive enough to lure followers since there are many other traditional and conventional remedies (Tai Chi, Buddhism, Taoism)
Instead, under the disguise of Buddhism, they claimed that by practicing Falun Gong most of the serious illness can be self-healed, the illness include cancer, uraemia, heart disease, paralysis and the list goes on. People joint the FLG in hoping that their disease will be cured. This is the main reason how Falun Gong expand so fast in the 1990’s (of course the followers will have purchase the over-priced Falun Gong Franchises for the “orthodox way” of practice)
At first, the government did not treat this kind of activity very seriously; in fact at the same time there were quite a few other groups in China just like FalunGong who were preaching the same principle for a living. In the eyes of government, although these groups seem a bit greedy but they have somewhat filled up the belief vacuum after the communist ideology shatter in the early 1990s (which could contribute to the furtherance of social stability), plus I guess it is better for people to do some exercise than sitting at home especially for the elderly.
The government became alerted when it realised a large number of followers were too obsessed with Falun Gong – typically refused to undergo medical treatment when getting sick and believed that Falun Gong was their only hope, plus the member was expanding exponentially including some communist officials and government views this as a threat to its ruling. The Falun Gong then summoned a few congregations outside some local and central government buildings to pressure the government to loosen its restriction. That was the last straw for the government and it subsequently banned FalunGong.
FalunGong had a pretty sophisticated internal management system to manage its members but it is obviously no match with an authoritarian government. I have to mention that although I support with the government’s decision to ban Falun Gong, I do not agree how it was handled, a typical iron fist policy: detained the hardcore followers and forced to participate”Re-Education Program” in tandem with periodic reviews. I view the FalunGong members as a victim of cult but not as an offender, they shouldn’t suffer the hardship for what they believed in. But FalunGong’s claim that the government is performing organ harvest from followers is too far fetch.
When FalunGong came to Australia, it realised that by using the same slogan of “self-healing” they would only be featured in an episode of “today tonight” and won’t be getting much sympathy from the Australian general public. So it started to portrait itself as self-righteous, non-for-profit, benevolence religious group and selectively forgot about its amazing ability to heal any illness known to human race. If you compare the content between its English and Chinese website, you will understand how drastic the different is.
We may have different understanding for cult group, for me, A cult does not necessary mean extreme ideas or group suicide. The fact that a group (such as FLG) advocates its fake healing power, mislead followers into obsession and benefit from the process should be regarded as cult. I think it is a bit ironic for people to support a cult group to promote human rights in China. I know it is out of good intention however the result has been undermined by the involvement of a group which is more interested to expand its member base than to see a democratic China.

Finally, allow me to coarsely translate a “case study” from FalunGong’s official Chinese website and you can understand how FalunGong present itself in China:
http://www.falundafaradio.org/show_article.asp?id=8691
Topic: understanding the truth and leukaemia disappears
A 10-year-old girl living in the village near DaBie Mountain, without knowing the truth, she used a knife to cut a FLG amulet into half and in September 2005 she suffered the incurable disease – leukaemia, and dropped out of school.
After the news is spread, the school tried to raise money for her medical treatment, however the donation present little more than a drop in the ocean. The girl’s condition was deteriorating day by day and her life was on the verge of death.
At this crucial point, a FLG practitioner came to her house, told her and her family about the truth of Falun Dafa, and the idea of “the heaven is destroying Chinese communist, the only way to survive is to quit communist party, youth league and young pioneer” he told the girl sincerely:”quite the young pioneer first, this will cleanse the communist demon possessed in your body, this is good for your healing process. You have also committed sins to FLG by cutting the FLG amulet into half; you need to apologize and committed to treasure the FLG amulet in the future. At the same time you also need to repeat in your heart: “Falun Dafa is good””ZhenShanRen is good” and you will recover from your illness”
………
The girl quit young pioneer, confessed to the FLG practitioner about the sins she had committed and expressed the feeling that she had rectified her mistakes and devoted herself to FLG
Ever since then the girl constantly repeats “Falun Dafa is good””ZhenShanRen is good”, even during her sleep. Sure enough, her condition is noticeably getting better day by day. Other people cannot cure their disease of leukaemia despite spent tens of thousands Yuan, but her signs of illness disappeared only within a few months without any medical treatment. She had been fully recovered and went back to school by the new year eve of 2008.

The facts are, FG was supported by the Chinese government during the 7 years (1992-1999) prior to its ban. In 1999 the Chinese governement cracked down on FG because its popularity posed a threat to the CCP, between 70-100 million people were practising FG in China at the time. As early as 1994, the Chinese government tried to gain control of FG and make money off it. They approached the founder and tried to endorse and charge money for the practise. The founder, Master Li HonZhi said no, as FG was a spiritual discipline for the health of the people, and it was not for sale. It was actually the government who tried to caplitalize on the practise.

FG does not “lure” its followers, its popularity in China and around the world is due to it genuinely being righteous. It genuinely teaches people to be good.

I’d like to share my own experience, since my early childhood I’ve grown up in an unhappy family, for as long as I could remember, domestic violence was a serious issue in my household – for the most part of my chilhood/teens. It hurt me for a long time, to remember snippets of my life back then. Living in womens refuges, hotels was the norm for mum and us. Mum had developed back/spinal problems due to being beaten. My sister was on the verge of having a mental disorder and had to take medication. As I grew up, the pain has never eased off and almost consumed me. My dad had an affair after mum took him back. There were times when I thought I wouldn’t make it. All that is in the past, I’m now in my mid 20s, finished uni/grad school and undertaking a PhD degree at one of the best universities in Australia. All my life, my pain has been what others, namely what an irresponsible parent has imposed on me. But now, I really feel no sadness or hatred. And our family is still in one piece and closer than ever, we have all forgiven.
That’s the power of FG, not only does it cure illnesses, it heals the heart. I’m one person out of the hundreds of millions of people who have benefited from the practise of Falun Gong. Hunderds of millions each with their own story and from all walks of life. So in the face of the persecution of FG in China, and the lies spread by the CCP about FG, I have to tell people the truth, Falun Gong has only ever taught people to be kind, to be good.

The truth of Falungong: ( TV program of CBC )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxmPpeJJhMw

Thank you very much for your support Granny. If there were a lot more people like you this persecution would have ended a long time ago, together with the persecution of the Tibetans, Uighars, Catholics etc.

I must confess,when I knew little to nothing about FG I also had a vague feeling it could be a cult as there are so many cults around. One day I watched a FG band marching during one of the summer festivities in Canberra. I felt a strong energy coming from the band, something that never happened to me before. That prompted me to google FG on the internet.
I found the teachings very profound and interesting and the more i learned the more I became convinced it was exactly the opposite from a cult.

There is no membership; there is no list of names; there is no building; there is no prayer nor worship. Some easy to learn exercises are practised at peoples convenience somewhere in a park. There is no secrecy of teachings; 100% of the teachings are available from the internet. There is no initiation ceremony; anybody can come or go when they like. There is no hierarchy, though there are event coordinators. There is no asking for monetary contributions; somebody who can afford it contributes for a particular event.

FG has spread to about 80 different countries. If it was a dangerous cult as the CCP claims how come that there are no court cases against it in any of those countries. How come that nobody has set themselves on fire in any of these countries or jumped out of windows, events like that being a common occurence in China according to the CCP.

On the contrary most people who seriously practise FG have received tremendous improvements in their health and general wellbeing.

kzx33 said
When FalunGong came to Australia, it realised that by using the same slogan of “self-healing” they would only be featured in an episode of “today tonight” and won’t be getting much sympathy from the Australian general public. So it started to portrait itself as self-righteous, non-for-profit, benevolence religious group and selectively forgot about its amazing ability to heal any illness known to human race

I can understand your reasoning as you have lived for 16 years in China under a totalitarian regime. Let me help you. I am a Falun Gong practitioner for 10 years in Australia and also lived under a totalitarian government. Master Li Hongzi says in his book Zhuan Falun (www.falundafa.org): ” I am not going to talk about treating diseases here, nor shall I treat diseases. However, as a true cultivator, you cannot cultivate yourself without a healthy body. So I’ll purify your body, but only for those who really have come to learn the gong and the Law. Here I would like to point out emphatically that I have no way to help you if you cannot rid yourself of your attachments, and I can do nothing for you if you cannot let go of your diseases.”

Falun Gong is a cultivation practice, it is not for healing illness, but a lot of people experience tremendous health improvements once they genuinely start practising. You think that in Australia we seem to hide this fact. Not so. We have 3 books full of people’s healings and health improvements. Please check this out on the following website: http://clearwisdom.net/emh/31/

It is a sad fact that people who have undergone communist brainwashing for years are no longer able to accept anything of the supernatural.

I now like to give my own experience. I had a car accident in 1999 and instantly developed permanent neck damage and whiplash. I also had permanent backpain before the accident. These problems made me very unhappy and depressed. My sister was practising Falun Gong at the time. I could see the benefit it made in her behaviour and state of mind. So, I also started to practise it. Soon, I was able to cut down on medication for my back pain and my neck problem was gone completely. I now feel very content and pleased with my life.

I was offered compensation by Comcare, but I did not accept it as I was fit and healthy after practising Falun Gong.

So, kzx33, you have another case to be sarcastic about. The Chinese government could save itself billions of yuan, first by not having to spend huge amounts on the persecution of FLG and secondly on a substantial reduction in hospital costs.

Picter said :

As for your brainwashing comment I rather be brainwashed, from my own free will, by people who belief in Truthfulness, Compassion and Tolerance, than under coercion, by a totalitarian regime that has killed millions of people and still is killing thousands of Falun Gong practioners according to the World Organisation to Investigate the Persecution of Falun Gong (WOIPFG).

Frankly, Picter, having been in a couple of cults, it does sound like a cult to me. However, I do agree with you about freedom of belief and freedom of choice.

I think Australia gets the balance very right with regard to religious sects and cults, and that is the sort of society I would much prefer to live in.

Somehow we manage to protect freedom of religion, yet provide support for people wishing to exit a group, and limit the scope for abuse so as to minimise harm to their adherents. Mainstream religions can also hurt people just as much as cults in my experience.

First kzx33 wanted us to believe that Falun Gong is a dangerous cult. Now he wants to turn the high level teachings of Falun Gong into ridicule. These are of course well known ploys of the Chinese Communist Party (CCP).

The existence of aliens is well documented. What they are all about is not. Master Li has given us some clear insight about their intentions. The intention of your sources of information of course was to discredit Falun Gong, by omitting Master Li’s final statement
on the subject, i.e. that aliens will NOT succeed in taking over human bodies; the Gods would not allow it.

Master Li does not approve of homosexuality (that certainly does not mean annihilation) and he beliefs it would be better if inter-race marriages could be avoided. Many Falun Gong practitioners live happily in inter-race marriages. Again, when something is best to avoid, it does not mean it is forbidden.

For your information kzx33, I have seen people levitate in a secluded environment when I was practising Transcendental Meditation. This power is locked up in most Falun Gong practitioners, so that they would not go astray in their cultivation showing themselves off. Many Falun Gong practitioners will tell you, though, that they feel very light when walking. As I understand there are many people in China who can levitate in secluded cultivation environments. China was once a very spiritual country, but spirituality and communism do not mix.

As for your brainwashing comment I rather be brainwashed, from my own free will, by people who belief in Truthfulness, Compassion and Tolerance, than under coercion, by a totalitarian regime that has killed millions of people and still is killing thousands of Falun Gong practioners according to the World Organisation to Investigate the Persecution of Falun Gong (WOIPFG).

The CCP’s ploy is to make comments out of context, distort and exaggerate them, in an attempt to create an image of fanaticism. The fact is, Falun Gong practitioners are all leading a normal life, having a normal job, and keeping good relationships with friends and colleagues.

Process? Piffle. Just stop the violence. Change the rotten policy. Now.

Singapore’s authoritarian ‘democracy’ with single-party, communist-factional reign since 1959?

I kind of like free-speech, trials by jury, avoiding the rattan, and not having a death penalty for drug offenses.
Chinese governance is a balancing act of giving its people more of the freedoms they demand, without the people simultaneously realising they could have many more freedoms their Government doesn’t want them to have if only they got rid of their Government.

Granny said :

My ideas are that I’m not afraid of what they believe and I’m not afraid of what they say.

We have regulations here relating to medical and therapeutic claims that can be made by an organisation which seem to work perfectly well without us having to resort to physical violence and murder in order to police them.

I will support anybody who is suffering human rights violations at the hand of their government and so should you.

I agree with you in this regard and I salute to your humanitarian mind.

In order to achieve it, not only it requires Chinese government to be more democratic, it also requires a more educated demographic. However the current education system is not motivating the students to have a mind of their own. This is one of the major impediments for the democratic progress in China and ironically it is also becoming a problem for the ruling of communist government.
As a Chinese I would love to see China to have a democratic and egalitarian society (somewhere around Singaporean standard as the first step) and hopefully the process will be carried out as an evolution rather than revolution.

Picter Said:
“Master Li Hongzi makes it clear in his book “Zhuan Falun”: “I do not talk about healing illness here, and neither will we heal illness. As a genuine practitioner, however, you cannot practice cultivation with an ill body. I will purify your body. The body purification will be done only for those who come to truly learn the practice and the Fa.” (http://clearwisdon.net)
Falun gong members are strictly forbidden to heal illness. Master Li Hongzi repeatedly warns in his book about the dangers of fake healers.”

Perhaps you should hear it from straight from the mouth of Master Li back in 1999 during the interview with TIME Magazine (http://www.time.com/time/asia/asia/magazine/1999/990510/interview1.html):

TIME: You have said that this type of qigong should not be used to cure illness. Why is that?
Li: Healing illnesses belongs to the lower level of qigong. A person with an illness cannot practice to a higher level. One has to purify one’s body in order to have gong. Healing and fitness are for laying a foundation at a lower level of practice.
……
TIME: Would you use qigong to cure an illness?
Li: I can do all of this, but I won’t do it.
……
TIME: What is the final goal?
Li: The ultimate purpose is to enable people to attain the Tao and to complete their cultivation practice
…..
TIME: What happens after one attains the Tao?
Li: We have all heard about the Chinese deities. When one completes cultivation, one has special powers.

As master Li explained, the final goal for practicing FLG is to achieve “Tao” (immortal) where you will gain special powers, the healings are just the beginning as it is the “lower level” or “laying foundation”, not to mention that he has the ability to “cure any illness” – but of course he won’t do it.
If you read on the interview you will find that Master Li also firmly believes that aliens from other planets were responsible for corrupting mankind by teaching modern science.

TIME: Where do they come from?
Li: The aliens come from other planets. The names that I use for these planets are different. Some are from dimensions that human beings have not yet discovered. The key is how they have corrupted mankind. Everyone knows that from the beginning until now, there has never been a development of culture like today. Although it has been several thousand years, it has never been like now.

The aliens have introduced modern machinery like computers and airplanes. They started by teaching mankind about modern science, so people believe more and more science, and spiritually, they are controlled. Everyone thinks that scientists invent on their own when in fact their inspiration is manipulated by the aliens. In terms of culture and spirit, they already control man. Mankind cannot live without science.

The ultimate purpose is to replace humans. If cloning human beings succeeds, the aliens can officially replace humans. Why does a corpse lie dead, even though it is the same as a living body? The difference is the soul, which is the life of the body. If people reproduce a human person, the gods in heaven will not give its body a human soul. The aliens will take that opportunity to replace the human soul and by doing so they will enter earth and become earthlings.

When such people grow up, they will help replace humans with aliens. They will produce more and more clones. There will no longer be humans reproduced by humans. They will act like humans, but they will introduce legislation to stop human reproduction.

TIME: Are you a human being?
Li: You can think of me as a human being.

Many of his fundamental ideologies have been removed from the English version of indoctrination (including god will annihilate homosexuals and forbids inter-race marriage) in order to appear appealing to western value.
So if you use sources from FLG websites such as clearwisdom.net, minghui.org to defend FLG, it is as naïve as someone uses gov.cn website to defend the communist government.
When you conveniently accuse other people of being “brainwashed” perhaps it is just the reflection of yourself. I have never “accepting what …. says is a sure sign” and neither should you.

To lighten up the mood, here is another fun fact from the master:

TIME: In your book [Zhuan Falun] you talk about people levitating off the ground but you say that they should not show other people. Why is that?
Li: It is the same principle that Western gods in paradise should not be seen by ordinary mortals because they cannot understand its meaning.

TIME: Have you seen human beings levitate off the ground?
Li: I have known too many.

TIME: Can you describe any that you have known?
Li: David Copperfield. He can levitate and he did it during performances.

(I guess $400 per ticket does justify its value considering Mr. Copperfield is actually performing his achievement of Tao/Immortal)

kzx33 said:
“. The fact that a group (such as FLG) advocates its fake healing power, mislead followers into obsession and benefit from the process should be regarded as cult.”

Master Li Hongzi makes it clear in his book “Zhuan Falun”: “I do not talk about healing illness here, and neither will we heal illness. As a genuine practitioner, however, you cannot practice cultivation with an ill body. I will purify your body. The body purification will be done only for those who come to truly learn the practice and the Fa.” (http://clearwisdon.net)

Falun gong members are strictly forbidden to heal illness. Master Li Hongzi repeatedly warns in his book about the dangers of fake healers.

The Chinese Communist Party (CCP)wanted to destroy Falun Gong in 3 months. As you well know kzx33, they set their propaganda machine at work. They told 3 people to set themselves on fire at Thiannemen Square. They told them it would be without any danger to them, as they would be given fire proof clothing and the fire brigade would be in attendance to extinguish the flames as soon as the TV shots were taken.

This staged set-up is well documented by the World Organisation to Investigate the Persecution of Falun gong.(google WOIPFG and click HOT CASES)

The mission statement of WOIPFG is: Mission Statement

To investigate the criminal conduct of all institutions, organizations, and individuals involved in the persecution of Falun Gong; to bring such investigations, no matter how long it takes, no matter how far and deep we have to search, to full closure; to exercise fundamental principles of humanity; and to restore and uphold justice in society.

The fact is, the CCP’s mighty propaganda force fabricated this and many other incidents to brandish Falun Gong as a cult.

Just accepting what the CCP says is a sure sign you have been brainwashed by the CCP during your 16 years in China kzx33.

AH, kzx33…. Who is to say what the majority of Chinese people believe? State broadcasts? Publically releasable survey results (audited by truly independent third parties? Or are you just saying what you think the majority of Chinese beleive? Each of ehse is vastly different.

I personally believe that the State is afraid of anything it does not understand or control. Don’t get me wrong I would love to go to China and I’ve never myet met a Chinese person I haven’t liked, but I am very wary of the State and what it says.

Long live freedom of expression and religion.

Oh, and on your earlier point about FG saying in some material in China that a girl was cured of a fatal disease, the Catholic Church repeatedly says that too. In fact, they make saints out of ordinary mortals to whom they prescribe mystical and almost magical healing powers.

My ideas are that I’m not afraid of what they believe and I’m not afraid of what they say.

We have regulations here relating to medical and therapeutic claims that can be made by an organisation which seem to work perfectly well without us having to resort to physical violence and murder in order to police them.

I will support anybody who is suffering human rights violations at the hand of their government and so should you.

Granny said :

kzx33, whatever they believe or practice, does it give someone the right to bash them, and torture them and harvest their organs?

I think not.

Do they eat babies? Is there any other offficial propaganda you’d care to share?

No doubt every day in Australia we would be poised on the brink of a cult-induced national disaster if we weren’t so brilliant at national security ourselves.

Or maybe it’s just not such a threat to us because we allow people to think what they want to think. Now there’s a novel idea!

Granny, if you have read my comment, you should know what my stance is: I do not support the government handled the situation in such manner, the government should be respectful towards FLG practitioner’s belief. However I do think by supporting an organisation viewed as a cult group by a majority of Chinese people to promote human right in China may not be the best idea, but once again, are they promoting for human right or are they just promoting for themselves?
I did not use any propaganda material, what I have said is just based on my own understanding and observation, after coming to Australia at least I bother to read books and material about FLG from another perspective. It would be intellectually immature if someone filters away information or label it as propaganda just because it is contradicting to his/her own ideas.

kzx33, whatever they believe or practice, does it give someone the right to bash them, and torture them and harvest their organs?

I think not.

Do they eat babies? Is there any other offficial propaganda you’d care to share?

No doubt every day in Australia we would be poised on the brink of a cult-induced national disaster if we weren’t so brilliant at national security ourselves.

Or maybe it’s just not such a threat to us because we allow people to think what they want to think. Now there’s a novel idea!

BerraBoy68 said :

I love democracy too, but I also love freedom of expression and religion. We may not like cults here but we don’t certainly don’t beat and imprison their members. I’ve taken the time to meet with a few Falun Gong practitioners and haven’t yet met one that seems other than just a normal person, and they’re certainly not obsessive about their beleif’s as have been members of some cult that I have met with.

But please, don’t try to make an argument against Falun Gong by making this about race or some assumed Australian prejudice against the chinese ex-pats (re: your reference to china-bashing). It won’t wash.

Welcome to Australia.

Thank you for your response. Perhaps we are all somewhat prejudice base on our stance. When I put myself in your shoe and believe that Falun Gong is how they portrait themselves in Australia, I am sure I will be sympathetic towards them as well. However my experience in China says otherwise.
In Australia (and other western countries) they claim the effect of practicing FalunGong is to achieve inner peace, harmony, reduce stress and etc. But back in China, FalunGong understood that this is not attractive enough to lure followers since there are many other traditional and conventional remedies (Tai Chi, Buddhism, Taoism)
Instead, under the disguise of Buddhism, they claimed that by practicing Falun Gong most of the serious illness can be self-healed, the illness include cancer, uraemia, heart disease, paralysis and the list goes on. People joint the FLG in hoping that their disease will be cured. This is the main reason how Falun Gong expand so fast in the 1990’s (of course the followers will have purchase the over-priced Falun Gong Franchises for the “orthodox way” of practice)
At first, the government did not treat this kind of activity very seriously; in fact at the same time there were quite a few other groups in China just like FalunGong who were preaching the same principle for a living. In the eyes of government, although these groups seem a bit greedy but they have somewhat filled up the belief vacuum after the communist ideology shatter in the early 1990s (which could contribute to the furtherance of social stability), plus I guess it is better for people to do some exercise than sitting at home especially for the elderly.
The government became alerted when it realised a large number of followers were too obsessed with Falun Gong – typically refused to undergo medical treatment when getting sick and believed that Falun Gong was their only hope, plus the member was expanding exponentially including some communist officials and government views this as a threat to its ruling. The Falun Gong then summoned a few congregations outside some local and central government buildings to pressure the government to loosen its restriction. That was the last straw for the government and it subsequently banned FalunGong.
FalunGong had a pretty sophisticated internal management system to manage its members but it is obviously no match with an authoritarian government. I have to mention that although I support with the government’s decision to ban Falun Gong, I do not agree how it was handled, a typical iron fist policy: detained the hardcore followers and forced to participate”Re-Education Program” in tandem with periodic reviews. I view the FalunGong members as a victim of cult but not as an offender, they shouldn’t suffer the hardship for what they believed in. But FalunGong’s claim that the government is performing organ harvest from followers is too far fetch.
When FalunGong came to Australia, it realised that by using the same slogan of “self-healing” they would only be featured in an episode of “today tonight” and won’t be getting much sympathy from the Australian general public. So it started to portrait itself as self-righteous, non-for-profit, benevolence religious group and selectively forgot about its amazing ability to heal any illness known to human race. If you compare the content between its English and Chinese website, you will understand how drastic the different is.
We may have different understanding for cult group, for me, A cult does not necessary mean extreme ideas or group suicide. The fact that a group (such as FLG) advocates its fake healing power, mislead followers into obsession and benefit from the process should be regarded as cult. I think it is a bit ironic for people to support a cult group to promote human rights in China. I know it is out of good intention however the result has been undermined by the involvement of a group which is more interested to expand its member base than to see a democratic China.

Finally, allow me to coarsely translate a “case study” from FalunGong’s official Chinese website and you can understand how FalunGong present itself in China:
http://www.falundafaradio.org/show_article.asp?id=8691
Topic: understanding the truth and leukaemia disappears
A 10-year-old girl living in the village near DaBie Mountain, without knowing the truth, she used a knife to cut a FLG amulet into half and in September 2005 she suffered the incurable disease – leukaemia, and dropped out of school.
After the news is spread, the school tried to raise money for her medical treatment, however the donation present little more than a drop in the ocean. The girl’s condition was deteriorating day by day and her life was on the verge of death.
At this crucial point, a FLG practitioner came to her house, told her and her family about the truth of Falun Dafa, and the idea of “the heaven is destroying Chinese communist, the only way to survive is to quit communist party, youth league and young pioneer” he told the girl sincerely:”quite the young pioneer first, this will cleanse the communist demon possessed in your body, this is good for your healing process. You have also committed sins to FLG by cutting the FLG amulet into half; you need to apologize and committed to treasure the FLG amulet in the future. At the same time you also need to repeat in your heart: “Falun Dafa is good””ZhenShanRen is good” and you will recover from your illness”
………
The girl quit young pioneer, confessed to the FLG practitioner about the sins she had committed and expressed the feeling that she had rectified her mistakes and devoted herself to FLG
Ever since then the girl constantly repeats “Falun Dafa is good””ZhenShanRen is good”, even during her sleep. Sure enough, her condition is noticeably getting better day by day. Other people cannot cure their disease of leukaemia despite spent tens of thousands Yuan, but her signs of illness disappeared only within a few months without any medical treatment. She had been fully recovered and went back to school by the new year eve of 2008.

kzx33 said:
“I do hope this could one day happen in China as well, but I just don’t think China-bashing is the solution, especially by cult group such as FalunGong.”

The Falun Gong people want the best for the Chinese people and they are not interested in politics; they certainly do not do any China bashing at all. What they do want is freedom of belief. Because this freedom of belief was changed into freedom granted to the Communist government agencies to destroy Falun Gong by any means, Falun Gong, believing in truthfulness, told the truth of what the Communist party was doing to them.

If the US had done to Falun Gong what the Communist Party did, Falun Gong would have told the truth of the US’s actions just the same. This is not China bashing, this is letting the Chinese people know what type of government they are dealing with, that is capable of committing such attrocities. This is for the good of the Chinese people. Only if you look at the history of the Communist party is it possible to understand how this persecution is possible.

Turning a blind eye to such crimes is not going to make China a better place, nor is it going to make the world a better place. It is only going to lead to decadence of the human race.

I love democracy too, but I also love freedom of expression and religion. We may not like cults here but we don’t certainly don’t beat and imprison their members. I’ve taken the time to meet with a few Falun Gong practitioners and haven’t yet met one that seems other than just a normal person, and they’re certainly not obsessive about their beleif’s as have been members of some cult that I have met with.

But please, don’t try to make an argument against Falun Gong by making this about race or some assumed Australian prejudice against the chinese ex-pats (re: your reference to china-bashing). It won’t wash.

Welcome to Australia.

BerraBoy68 said :

Is it just me or does anybody else suspect kzx33 to be an employee of the Chinese embassy? I wouldn’t be surprised if someone in there just kept a watch on the interwebs for anything falun gong related so they can jump on it PDQ.

There’s lots of info presented as facts but I’m not sold, sorry kzx33. BTW: were you out waving your red flag over the faces of taiwanese protestors during the local leg of the Beijing Olympics Torch relay.

With all this talk about Buddha and Tripitaka, I can’t help but think the falun gong could do with Monkey’s help to kick some serious state butt.

I not an employee of Chinese embassy nor a member of the so-called cyber police, but your reaction does not surprise me. It seems that whenever a Chinese express any pro-China sentiment, he/she will be instantly deemed as a brain-washed communist advocate, it normally follows with another remark such as:”if you like China so much. Why are you still here?”
I envy the people in Australia who are living in a meritocratic society where there is little income discrepancy and no clear line of demarcation between different classes, enjoy free-speech and having the right to vote under the democratic system. I do hope this could one day happen in China as well, but I just don’t think China-bashing is the solution, especially by cult group such as FalunGong.

Is it just me or does anybody else suspect kzx33 to be an employee of the Chinese embassy? I wouldn’t be surprised if someone in there just kept a watch on the interwebs for anything falun gong related so they can jump on it PDQ.

There’s lots of info presented as facts but I’m not sold, sorry kzx33. BTW: were you out waving your red flag over the faces of taiwanese protestors during the local leg of the Beijing Olympics Torch relay.

With all this talk about Buddha and Tripitaka, I can’t help but think the falun gong could do with Monkey’s help to kick some serious state butt.

kzx33 said :

The meetings made an appraisal of the well-known modern living Buddha, rabbis and dignitaries and then listed six disputed individuals.

I can assure you the modern living Buddha is not well-known in any of my circles.

kzx33 said :

After rounds of open discussions, it was decided through voting that Li Hongzhi and other four people were preachers of cult.

Voting is a great method of deciding such things. Just look at Galileo. Completely outvoted. The heretic!

kzx33 said :

The meetings noted that the so-called universal Buddha Dharma advocated by Li Hongzhi was utterly against the tripitaka doctrine of Buddha since it was nothing but fabricated heresies used to bewitch the ordinary people.

In other words somebody invented something different to what somebody else invented. Oh noes!

I having been living in China for 16 years and Australia for 10 years and I have been exposed to the information from both sides. I am amazed how hypocritical Falun Gong is.
From my point of view, back in China Falun Gong was nothing but a money-hungry organisation with a self-invented religion. Its religious leader Li Hongzhi (a factory worker who falsified his birth certificate to coincide with the birth date of Buddha and claims himself as the reincarnation) has only shown extensive interest in selling souvenirs, “praying accessories” and giving pay-per-view “healing seminars”. At this stage the Chinese government seemed to tolerate its existence and in fact some communist officials were also practicing Falun Gong in private. Mr. Li however went too far by claiming that his followers will not require any medical treatment when they get sick as long as they practice Falun Gong (he actively denied this after fled to America). The Government became even more anxious when it realised Mr. Li’s ability to mobilize large congregations. Subsequently the government intervened and banned Falun Gong in China by using state apparatus to lodge campaign against it.
Falun Gong self-claimed that it is a branch of Buddhist preaching; however it has no affiliation or association with any other Buddhist organisation. In fact during the conference held in Taiwan in the year 2000, the United International World Buddhism Association Headquarters has already deemed Li hongzhi as “a preacher of cult”.
I am not here to defend the authoritarian government in China; I am just here to tell the other side of story which is rarely heard in Australia. Sometimes the enemy’s enemy is not necessarily a friend.

United International World Buddhism Association Headquarters: Li Hongzhi labeled as a preacher of cult
United International World Buddhism Association Headquarters held a one-week World Forum on Buddhist, Buddhism and Buddha Dharma Uprightness in Taiwan. More than 2,000 Buddhists ranked living Buddha, dignitary and lay Buddhist from 28 countries including USA, Canada, France, Japan, Thailand and Nepal took part in the forum. The participants had made a review and appraisal of Li Hongzhi and other disputed individuals. The Forum determined through voting that Li Hongzhi was a preacher of cult, indicating that Li Hongzhi and other Falun Gong members had garbled Buddha Dharma, and that their so-called universal Buddha Dharma was utterly self-fabricated heresy.
It is reported in Thailand media that this global Buddhist conference was called on by United International World Buddhism Association Headquarters under the strong appealing of many dignitaries and lay Buddhists, in consideration that the fake Buddha Dharma and fallacies was mixed in the Buddhist circle at present time.
The meetings made an appraisal of the well-known modern living Buddha, rabbis and dignitaries and then listed six disputed individuals. After rounds of open discussions, it was decided through voting that Li Hongzhi and other four people were preachers of cult.
The meetings noted that the so-called universal Buddha Dharma advocated by Li Hongzhi was utterly against the tripitaka doctrine of Buddha since it was nothing but fabricated heresies used to bewitch the ordinary people.
United International World Buddhism Association, International Bodhi Vajra Association, World Buddhist Sangha Assembly and Tibetan Buddhism Association of America sent representatives to the meeting as well.

Picter, some very good points you make there.
I often wonder how much is sacrificed for the dollar sign with our dear government.

Good on yous Falun Gongers! About time this persecution stops! Interesting to note that the Hu affair, an affair about money, got centre stage in our media, while the most vile persecution ever, an affair about human rights, is as good as forgotten by our media.

Makes one wonder, the Chinese Communist Party controls the Chinese media; who controls our media?

The Chinese Communist Party’s media brainwashes their citizens with their “communist principles”; doesn’t our media brainwashes us with their “capitalist principles” by choosing to ignore the most severe violation ever against human rights , so that capitalist greed can win over ethical human consciousness.

If we did business with the Mafia wouldn’t there be a public outcry. But doing business with a dictatorsip that incarcerates good people for their belief, tortures them and sells their organs on the open market and then incinerates their bodies to get rid of the evidence, that is tolerated by our society. Isn’t that worse then what the mafia ever did? Aren’t we accomplices in these crimes if we let those attrocities happen, so that we wouldn’t miss out on a business contract with this godless Communist Party?

Graham Cooke9:06 am 20 Jul 09

Certainly let’s separate the Chinese people from the Government. As a regular visitor to Hong Kong over nearly 20 years I am delighted to see Falun Gong is still able to operate freely there. Hong Kong is far from the perfect democracy but attempts to restrict it further have been robustly resisted by the people. I hope that Hong Kong may be the model for the future evolution of the People’s Republic but I have my doubts. Change on the mainland will be resisted and will only come through violence and upheaval – and once again, it will be the people who suffer.

I remember talking to a Singaporean several years ago, during the “reign” of Lee Kuan Yew (sp?). Her view was that the economic prosperity of Singapore was worth the suppression of individual freedoms by the government.

I suspect that for the majority of Chinese, their significant growth in living standards has been sufficient for them to accept that curtailment of basic human rights is a reasonable price to pay.

That’s probably why Iranians are currently challenging the Mullahs – there’s not enough trickle down.

Having said that, I am very sympathetic to the Falun Gong and always give them a toot when driving past their semi-permanent protest site outside the Chinese embassy.

The Chinese Government is always right, even when it is wrong, and it behaves accordingly. How else would a government keep hundreds of millions of its citizens under control?

Jivrashia said :

some roast duck and noodles from the exemplary Tak Kee Roast Inn in Dickson

Mmmm… Roast duck from Tak Kee… *cue gurgle sound Homer Simpson makes*

(dabs away drool)
As much as one can sympathise with Falun Gong and Tibetans, I don’t think the Chinese government and their iron fist policy, which prizes political stability over human rights, isn’t going to go away soon, unless there’s another Tiananman square protest that can turn into a revolution. It (the 1989 protest) was almost successful in dividing the military and could have left the political leaders without their big stick.

But then who’s to say that the post-revolution government might not be even worse than the toppled one?

plus one for the drool.

and i suspect the hu case is very mired in a deep cultural divide, with a commensurate gulf of silence from the chinese which makes assessing anything about it from what we hear about it a dread task. but you’ve got to keep hoping at least maybe something similar to iran, or even better, indonesia, in terms of bringing a draconian regime towards some semblance of real democracy, can happen soon in china.

“While I have some doubts about Stern Hu’s innocence (and consider that the main reason for the Australian Government’s silence)”

I would have thought export markets were a bigger cause of silence than Stern Hu’s guilt or innocence

JB, good that one raises awareness of the association between Epoch Times and Falun Gong/Falun Dafa, but one cannot see how this applies to the Hu situation, outside of the broader PRC Public Security Bureau powers – however applied….

some roast duck and noodles from the exemplary Tak Kee Roast Inn in Dickson

Mmmm… Roast duck from Tak Kee… *cue gurgle sound Homer Simpson makes*

(dabs away drool)
As much as one can sympathise with Falun Gong and Tibetans, I don’t think the Chinese government and their iron fist policy, which prizes political stability over human rights, isn’t going to go away soon, unless there’s another Tiananman square protest that can turn into a revolution. It (the 1989 protest) was almost successful in dividing the military and could have left the political leaders without their big stick.

But then who’s to say that the post-revolution government might not be even worse than the toppled one?

Serenity-Later12:28 am 19 Jul 09

I saw these guys over at the Belco markets this afternoon too and it made me immensely grateful to be living in a country where people don’t get clobbered for expressing an opinion or for partaking in a protest. Given that they aren’t only ethnic or religious group that have experienced oppression at the hands the Chinese government, this group can’t be the brainwashing cult that native chinese (or at least the ones i’ve been acquainted with) want us to believe.

On an entirely different matter, is it just me or does the chinese dating ad that’s popped up on this page seem inappropriate?

I have a very deep sympathy for the Falun Gong. China’s attitude to human rights makes me frequently grateful to be a citizen of Australia. I hope that Chinese expatriates will continue to support the Falun Gong in their protest.

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