Federal Budget '05

What you have to be aware of is that many receiving the disability pension suffer mental illness.

Mental illness is often suffered acutely, meaning that periods of wellness are punctuated be periods of sickness.

If an assessment takes place during a period of wellness, and this person is forced into work, what happens if they suffer another episode and cannot work? They wont be in a position to reapply for benefit.

The government has made no provision for this circumstance.

In a west country burr:
“You’ve got to make sure that people that say they’re crippled- actually are-”

I’m just saying there should be tests is all”

stick pins in their legs – see if they react”

I don’t think I inferred that low income earners are all crims. Maybe a graded taxation structure is the way to go but it sometimes galls people on the higher levels of income that the constant ‘breaks’ are given to those on lower incomes….they never seem to make their way up the chain.

Now, for once, they have, and I am happy. Whilst I feel for the strugglers of ths world, ultimately I draw happiness in the Budget for how it affects me.

I know it’s pretty boring stuff Ralph…but it’s an issue that can’t be “swept under the carpet” forever….

Yawn.

Apparantely the Catholics don’t accept that Jesus had any brothers or sisters but you may find the following extracts from the New Testament interesting —

Mark 3:31-32 (also Matthew 12:46-50; Luke 8:19-21)
Then his [Jesus’] mother and his brothers came; and standing outside, they sent to him and called him. A crowd was sitting around him; and they said to him. “Your mother and your brothers and sisters are outside, asking for you.”

Further on, their names are also given. This episode took place in Jesus’ hometown where people who knew him and his family were hearing him preach for the first time. Astonished, they asked:

Mark 6: 3 (also Matthew 13:55-56)
Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary and brother of James and Joses and Judas and Simon, and are not his sisters here with us?

We see similar references in the gospel of John:

John 2:12
After this he [Jesus] went down to Capernaum with his mother, his brothers and his disciples…
John 7:3-5
So his [Jesus’] brothers said to him, “Leave here and go to Judea so that your disciples also may see the works you are doing, for no one who wants to be widely known acts in secret. If you do these things, show yourself to the world” (For not even his brothers believed in him).”

I think it’s the case that there’s probably an equal number of crims across the income brackets.

It’s just those at the higher ends of the income brackets are better at keeping it away from vg’s end of the world.

And, for the utterly off-topic – As for the “did Joseph and Mary have other kids” saga – I vaguely remember hearing in Sunday school that yes, they did, but when looking over the bible a couple of years ago to win an arguement with a catholic (I believe they think that Mary died a virgin, hence she couldn’t have had extra kids), I couldn’t actually find it anywhere.

Any catholics out there, willing to tell us if Joseph ever had a root in his life?

Speaking of Jesus …. can anyone tell me whether James was the brother of Jesus ?

VG,

around 2,000 years ago a guy called jesus observed that 10% of a high income earner’s money wasn’t that much.

but for someone down on the breadline (the real breadline where you starve if you fall under it, not the spurious, relativist, poverty line) 10% is the difference between life and death. It’s a really, really big deal.

Rocket Science may not be Rocket Science, but tax threshold setting most certainly is.

I’m not having a go

but just because many of your “customers” are low income earners does not mean that everyone who has fallen to the bottom of the pile is a crim.

There’s a lot to be said for graded thresholds.

Like many things in life, the dishonest few ruin it for the genuinely needy. Having said that I encounter people on a daily basis who have never had a job, and draw the dole, a ‘sickness’ benefit and a single parents pension. Many of their problems are of their own making.

I will say that, as an obvious ‘righty’, it is nice to see a tax break for higher earners. Many higher earners (if not most) are there because of their own hard work, initiative and motivation. The ‘breaks’ have been plentiful at the lower end for years. Cut in stamp duty (which I missed out on because of my income), other tax cuts (missed out on for the same reason), so why can’t some of us who earn a bit more finally reap something from which we’ve sown.

If they really wanted to make it equitable why not simply pick an arbitrary figure such as 30% and apply that across the board to all levels of income?

Firstly, if you’re genuinely disabled you’ve copped the shitty end of the stick and nothing’s going to change that.

Which is not to say as a society we shouldn’t try to help them.

More broadly though, if the government can fund the services it sees fit then why should it choose the gouge additional taxation?

Even if you like the idea of punitive taxation (and it has some superficial appeal) you should remember the reality that high income earners can afford accountants who will reduce taxable income to nothing in the blink of an eye.

Want to know what allowed the government to go on this high spend budget? They lowered corporate tax. They lowered it to the point it was cheaper to pay tax than to avoid it. Suddenly cash flowed in to the public good from all over the place.

I earn in the mid $60k. I do not live the life of a high income earner.

These changes move that mark to people well over $100,000, where it belongs.

I will say that of the disabled pensioners I know all are able bodied and having a lend of the system.

Which is not to say there are not genuinely disabled pensioners. Just that there are some who can work and need a poke along the way as much for them as for us.

Anon, I especially like how you were without a leg to stand on in the debate until someone who appears to think on their emotional reactions came along and contributed something new to the conversation. The best you could do was cheerlead it. Then you make digs at peoples rational capacity and intellectual ability.

Priceless! You make this too easy for me.

Yes, well so far my link seems to be the only one that goes to another site – I clicked on your name Jazz and it took me to — The Riot Act, lol !

Anonymous – feel free to post your own article if you feel you have anything interesting to say. Just hit the submit news link at the top of the page.

Canberra_unsung_hero – thats because people put a url that doesn’t resolve or none at all in the bottom box when they post a response.

Hang on RG,
Help is on its way
I’ll be there as fast as I can

Whenever I click on somebody’s name, this is what I see —

The page cannot be displayed
The page you are looking for is currently unavailable. The Web site might be experiencing technical difficulties, or you may need to adjust your browser settings.

However, if I click on my own name, I see my home page (John B1_B5’s Place ) !

Nah, just couldn’t be bothered logging in, since this site rarely features anything I’m interested in responding to. No Budget, no comments from me.

I’m not going to buy into the tax argument, but isn’t posting anonymously also an indication of shallowness of character?

It’s not as if the pen-names give much away anyway.

At what point, in providing ample opportunity to prosper, do we assume a person has to take responsibility for the course of their own lives?

It’s really hard to refute your point without sounding like a heartless prick, but there you go. Hopeless or Useless?

LG, we win because our opponents talk utter drivel. They can’t stay on topic either. Doesn’t help them when we are always right of course. I hear they also have bad breath. And fleas. And listen to The Little River Band. 😛

Well said D. Heidelberg. Unfortunately most people don’t want to be aware of the awfulness of some people’s lives. They’d rather be faux-macho blowhards, crowing about their tax cuts and damning all others less fortunate, by imputing to themtheir own moral standards. And, while I’m at it – neither arrogance nor being impossible to win an argument with are indicative of intellectual ability or rational capacity. They are simply indicative of shallowness of character and undeservedly bloated ego.

Most people aren’t aware of the poverty cycle and all it’s implications.

Poverty breeds poverty and hopelessness. It’s likely the children of lifelong welfare recipients, will themselves grow up to be dependent on welfare. The problem is not “laziness” the problem is hopelessness.

Until the underlying problem is addressed, it is unlikely that the Government’s “tough on welfare” stance will have any affect.

Addressing social inequities is the key, however, too hard for a government that thinks in 3-year increments, which is why in 3 years time, nothing will have changed.

Birds of a feather…

Has anyone else noticed that the 3 most arrogant and impossible-to-win-an-argument-with people are RG,VG and LG? Is anyone else wondering if we are all the same person? I am.

You wascally wabbit!

I tort I taw a tology …. har, har.

Is that a tautology I observe!

Or was that the tautology?

Or that?

-ad infinitum-

Hmmmmm…..an interesting observation on an observation !

Wish you hadn’t mentioned meat and custard when the subject of Costello’s organ has already been, er, raised.

Speaking of “observations”….. Peter Costello made an interesting observation to the National Press Club today (in regards to the Budget )—
“Don’t think about your custard pie until you’ve had your meat pie “.

I made the observation recently that i seem to have no more money in my pocket now than when i was earning 16k whilst at uni. Strange that huh?

Glad to see I’m not the only one. I think it’s because your tastes and the obligations you are willing to takeon expand with your inputs despite yourself.

I still don’t know exactly what the budget contains but I gather from some of the discussion here that I might be better off, And you know what, goody for me. The argument that higher income earners contirbute more is fine with me, but i’ve always found it interesting that those same people should contribute at a greater rate.

For example, I made the observation recently that i seem to have no more money in my pocket now than when i was earning 16k whilst at uni. Strange that huh?

next time I get a pay rise, half will go in tax and the other half i will spend and thereby create a few more jobs

I think Anon should give it up. RG has him well and truly smashed

Hmmmm…..personal attacks seem to par for the course on this Board.

Dear, dear. “Inherent exaggeration”. Well, knowing (and caring) nothing about your sexual proclivities, how am I to be sure the comment is exaggerated? Unless, of course, you refer to your chances of getting near the Costello organ.

Like I said, pointless, but I’ll try nonetheless

But it does rather strike me that “I could fair dinkum blow the guy”, because the tax scale changes suit you is a little ‘bugger you, etc”.

If the inherent exaggeration doesn’t dilute the content of the statement for you, I suggest you get your language skills revised.

And your clear implication that those who have no paid work (single mothers, of course, excepted) are all lazy

I imply that people who are able bodied need a kick to move them out of the lazy zone.

episodic mental illness

Well gee, I guess that a reason other than laziness. Guess these people have nothing to fear from me. Dumbass.

over 50

Last I checked, 65 was retirement age. Dumbass.

i think the free ride train left town with the whitlam cairns era. since then its been the ‘fair go’ and the current mob are trying to stop the ‘soft touch’.

social responsibility will always be an intrinsic part of our welfare system, but the rorts need to be cracked down on.

balance is always the challenge. many hands out, only so many coins in the bag.

Come on everyone… 3 cheers for The Budget …Hip,hip,hoorayyyyyyyy ………

Perhaps so, R (can I call you R? I feel we’re so close now). But it does rather strike me that “I could fair dinkum blow the guy”, because the tax scale changes suit you is a little ‘bugger you, etc”. And your clear implication that those who have no paid work (single mothers, of course, excepted) are all lazy, and in need of a good kick to get a job does rather indicate that you lack either imagination or empathy. Or that you judge all others by your own moral compass. People with, say, episodic mental illness, many of whom are already on the dole rather than DSP, may not be best served by a good kick. And the simply mean-spirited move to force ever-older people onto work for the dole certainly counts as a kick. You might not find this so palatable if the professional career of which you boast were to collapse and you were over 50.

PS. My job is not anything even approaching a sinecure. Fuck you and go fuck yourself once I’m done.

I’d say there are a number of disparate steps between anything I’ve said and ‘bugger you Jack, I’m alright’

But your train of thought is skipping so far on and off the track in that last post I’ll guess that discussing ANYTHING with you would be pointless.

RG
Having also “been there”, and failed to get a job, I am not trying to fool anyone. In desperation, I got an extra degree. Result: I’m now underskilled, overqualified and self-employed. And appalled by the range of things I can claim as tax deductions. Yes, government charitable spending is both poorly thought out and capricious, but preferable to its spending on bombing the crap out of Iraq, or locking up Austrlian citizens with mental illnesses. What actually irks me about your attitute is that it exemplifies the “bugger you Jack, I’m alright” mentality of those in well, or well-ish paid sinecures.

Come on Johnny … Pete has a proven track record as a competent Treasurer, and it’s time for you to stick to your ORIGINAL statement that you would stand down as PM during this term….give the man a go…. if you don’t want to quit altogether, you could stay on as a backbencher, or take a Portfolio off one of the Ministers who DOESN’T have a proven track record.
You’ve done a good job Johnny, but it’s time to move on ……. I implore you, don’t go down in Australian history as a “PM Hogger”.

Anonymous, there is no excuse for laziness. I’ve been there, I was that guy, I know the BS behind the excuses. You can’t fool me, you’re trying to shit a shitter.

As for my comment on charity, well, it’s not 100% true, I’m usually kind to door knockers. But when I see the wide range of charitable social spending by both wings of government over time, always changing but always present, I feel that that ‘particular’ moral base is covered by my high taxes.

Does that make more sense? Or do you still think I hate the poor and unfortunate?

Or is my lavishous attitude the one you don’t appreciate?

First: I think David H should be PM. Speshly re the disabled. You are spot on.

Second: It is good the Govt is encouraging women to stay in abusive relationships. I mean, we ask for it, right? We deserve it. If we weren’t so horrible they wouldn’t abuse us! And it’s healthy for our kids to see, so that they also know that women deserve it. And if the kids cop abuse as well, so much the better! I mean, THEY deserve it!

So we should just buy another apron and close our damned mouths!

Yes Random. Shame on you for feeling good about contributing to society through income tax and “shave for a cure”. Who the hell do you think you are?????

For the record, I don’t mind paying taxes either – it means I have a job and a good income!

RG
Your attitude makes me wish it had been a back, sac and crack. Poorly performed.

Once the new AFP building opens up, thats my solution to paid parking gone 🙁

I like graded taxation, puts my mind at ease that as my means increase so does my contribution. I like being part of a community rather than an island. Especially given that I don’t give a cent to charity.

But then, I did get my head shaved and legs waxed for charity recently. Me and my collegues raised 2,600 all up. If you passed by Babars on the day, I was the guy who got both the shave AND the leg wax.

Hurt so good >:)

RandomGit i hear you. From dole queue in teh 80’s to high income earner is a mighty leap. I have little sympathy for lazy fucks. I have lost for teh less fortunate, but also believe tough love and incentive will help people to help themselves.

I dislike graded taxation. I would like to see a sole tax rate say 20% for all income levels. Especially mine…

I was pretty surprised at the amount I’ll be getting back. Of course comrade nohope will probably introduce some feeble revenue grab again. we had paid parking last year, what about paid walking next year.

Hang in there JB. Thinkin’ of you.

Having come from poverty to the dole queue and up to professional career and the contact I have had with all those involved as a result, I have little sympathy for those on welfare getting an extra kick to find a job. Except single mothers. Raising a kid is one hell of a job.

It depends on the ideology Thumper. Some people would say that higher income earners make a greater contribtion to the economy, pay more tax (some of which gets redistributed to the poor) and hence deserve greater tax relief. I don’t necessarily agree with this, but I suspect the annointed ones on Capital Hill do.

I’m not happy about the crackdown on some welfare recipients. And apparently women who divorce or leave their husbands will not qualify for sole parents assistance – they will go straight onto the dole. But hey, the Government is throwing money at ‘family conselling’ so it will all be peachy.

I am with the Git. I am very happy at the mo. God bless him, and his protecting his party voters ways

The threshhold increases come just as I am about to pass the 63k mark. I could fair dinkum blow the guy.

PETE FOR P.M.!

I think that if it doesn’t work, we’re headed for much higher interest rates.

I’m pleased that the government is targeting those vile disabled people though. After all they’ve got it so good now, living in sub standard accommodation, being serviced by inept, underfunded organisations.

About time they really got what was coming to them!

JB, do you have a link to some of the specifics yet?