16 June 2010

final inspection

| chymyn
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HELP

We had the final inspection yesterday,the Real Estate was very happy.

Later they rang to let us know,that the owner likes to do an inspection on his own on friday.

So they withheld our Bond Money until the Owner gives his OK.

Can they do it???

I am so upset. We done everything right,and now we have to wait again.

Thanks, Sabine

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and foxtel put a second connection up,because the house has no tv areal….and he is not happy about it

You have no authority to put it any TV connection aerial without the owners permission. That involves drilling. Just like you have no right to put in a picture hook.

BTW, what was the address of the place you rented at? It is no skin off your teeth to say so now. And who was the real estate agent?

Woody Mann-Caruso said :

If the real estate agent conducted a final inspection and gave you the all clear, and if you returned the keys and vacated the property, they can’t withhold your bond. See the link posted by thehutch above: http://www.tenantsact.org.au/Advice/bond.html

You’re probably going to have to go to the Residential Tenancy Tribunal (RTT) to get it, though. The process is spelled out here: http://www.ors.act.gov.au/rentalbonds/WebPages/orb9.html

Briefly, file a claim for your bond with the Office of Rental Bonds (ORB). The lessor has 14 days to dispute your claim. If they don’t, you get your money. If they do, ORB passes it on to the RTT.

Thank you .I print something out from the link.Very helpful.

Woody Mann-Caruso11:16 pm 18 Jun 10

If the real estate agent conducted a final inspection and gave you the all clear, and if you returned the keys and vacated the property, they can’t withhold your bond. See the link posted by thehutch above: http://www.tenantsact.org.au/Advice/bond.html

You’re probably going to have to go to the Residential Tenancy Tribunal (RTT) to get it, though. The process is spelled out here: http://www.ors.act.gov.au/rentalbonds/WebPages/orb9.html

Briefly, file a claim for your bond with the Office of Rental Bonds (ORB). The lessor has 14 days to dispute your claim. If they don’t, you get your money. If they do, ORB passes it on to the RTT.

Clown Killer11:07 pm 18 Jun 10

Name and shame. I sure as he’ll don’t want the same dip sh!t property managers looking after my assets.

Here we go,

First Thanks for all the replies.

The owner had a look through the house….and found some things…as I knew he would….

He is not happy with the walls….some needs cleaning and the edges of the lawn he wants them to get done….

and foxtel put a second connection up,because the house has no tv areal….and he is not happy about it.

He wants a cleaner and get it done…..well,we moved away from that area ….

They held the bond now….

WHAT Can I do ???

troll-sniffer2:42 pm 17 Jun 10

Pandy said :

Troll sniffer, if the tenant did take a room are you suggesting that the owner should take legal agent against the tenant? Let me tell you that real estate agents have a national black list of tenants database. Good tenants, will not take advantage of mistakes done by the RE in not noticing that the room is missing, so as to avoid being placed on the blacklist.

Pandy, it would make your replies worthy of notice if you would take the time to actually digest what others have written. Your response to my post is completely off the mark. This discussion is not about what the tenants may or may not have ‘got away with’. It’s about the process of finalising a tenancy under the legislation. The tenant has complied with the requirements and expects to have due process available. The landlord doesn’t seem to think this is acceptable. Under the legislation the landlord does not have the right to delay refund of the bond, no matter what a further inspection might throw up.

As I took pains to explain before, and perhaps now I need to find a way to phrase it so that a 5yo can understand it:

The person who owns the house has to give the person who rented the house the bond money back, because the person that the owner trusted to look at the property when the person renting the house moved out agreed that the person who rented the house had not left it in an unsatisfactory condition, and signed a legal piece of paper to that effect.

Now, if the owner of the house subsequently finds something that the renter of the house has done that was not right and could be argued over in a court of law, there is nothing to stop the owner of the house taking legal action to remedy or recover or whatever. I used the example of a missing room as an outlandish possibility only. Perhaps I should have considered that you would fail to see the sledgehammer even after it whacked you between the eyes.

If you need the matter explained in even simpler language I will do my best though it might be a job for a kindy teacher to carry on with.

Funky1 said :

p1 said :

All this Hoohaa is gonna be a little redundant if the owner is happy on Friday….

Not really redundant in that the OP has to wait at least an extra 3 days for their bond (which can be a long time if they need it for another rental or are strapped for cash) and may even be longer if the owner inspects the property late on Friday and the RE doesn’t submit their paperwork with the Bond Board until Monday – that’s nearly a week of extra financial stress for the OP.

Thank you
Well the point is, I thought I worked out everything fine…Inspection on tuesday…pay the water bill…and than a few days holiday getting ready to go to germany.
But these few days made me stay in this area…incase …
I won’t be back bevor September.
THIS IS NOT FAIR….

p1 said :

All this Hoohaa is gonna be a little redundant if the owner is happy on Friday….

Not really redundant in that the OP has to wait at least an extra 3 days for their bond (which can be a long time if they need it for another rental or are strapped for cash) and may even be longer if the owner inspects the property late on Friday and the RE doesn’t submit their paperwork with the Bond Board until Monday – that’s nearly a week of extra financial stress for the OP.

Pandy said :

And the owner promised you a fence? Do you have this in writing somewhere?

Seems to me that you can’t have it both ways. Either a verbal agreement is fine and the person should have got their fence, or not. But if we are taking a trusting approach, then I would say a final inspection, at which the RE says everything is fine should result in a bond being returned.

On that subject, at that final inspection, did the RE agent give you (the tenant) a report of some sort on the condition of the house? ‘Cause that would be pretty good evidence to the RTT that you moved out with everything fine.

All this Hoohaa is gonna be a little redundant if the owner is happy on Friday….

Woody Mann-Caruso said :

First piece of advice I can give you is not to listen to legal advice through the RiotAct… everyone has their own opinions on things – which aren’t exactly right.

Nobody above has said anything incorrect. Inspections requires a week’s written notice. The landlord’s so-called ‘inspection’ (a) isn’t an inspection under the tenancy agreement and (b) isn’t relevant for bond purposes. The tenancy agreement has been terminated, and the property was in the same condition with fair wear and tear as at the commencement of the tenancy. The lessor has no business delaying the bond release process.

Maybe the word ‘incorrect’ was wrong… irrelevant is probably more appropriate. Pointing out the 7 days notice required for an inspection in this instance just confuses the situation and is irrelevant as there is no current tenancy.

The fact that you stated this in your second posts shows we are thinking on the same wave lengths.

Pandy said :

There are sure some bleeing hearts here all for the tenants rights. I don’t buy in to it. I am not saying that the OP did wrong, but some of the comments here infuriates me as they shove the stick very hard up land owners arses.

Troll sniffer, if the tenant did take a room are you suggesting that the owner should take legal agent against the tenant? Let me tell you that real estate agents have a national black list of tenants database. Good tenants, will not take advantage of mistakes done by the RE in not noticing that the room is missing, so as to avoid being placed on the blacklist.

And OP what do you mean by “real damage”? You have been in there for a year and he has not yet sold the house after a year on the market? hard to believe. I think you have come to the end of the normal 1 year lease and the owner made the decision to tell you to move out at the end of the lease. Did the owner offer you a new lease? Of course he “used” you to pay rent. What do you think he was going to give the house for free? And the owner promised you a fence? Do you have this in writing somewhere? did you complain during your rental period? Finally, the delay at most to get your bond back is 3 days. No big deal IMHO. Come back on Friday and let us know exactly what the owner said in regards to the final final inspection.

The House has been left neat, carpet cleaned ,very well looked after.
I know I have to pay rent, don’t mind doing it, but be honest,only beeing used is not fun.
For 1 year we have been asking for the fence and guess what…we moved out,and it gets put up next week.
The RE didn’t help at all.Not very confident,but the owner is THE BOSS….
He didn’t sold his House,because he brought it for $500 000 and wants now 870 000.
After owning it 3 years.Nice profit….but doesen’t work…now he wants it up for auction….and we moved out a earlier….so he can do it….
Don’t get me wrong the are some nice homeowners….BUT …..

ConanOfCooma7:52 am 17 Jun 10

Pandy said :

There are sure some bleeing hearts here all for the tenants rights. I don’t buy in to it. I am not saying that the OP did wrong, but some of the comments here infuriates me as they shove the stick very hard up land owners arses.

I don’t see that here at all, considering there is a massive difference between a land owner and the owner of the property one is renting.

From experience, I’d say 75% of them deserve the stick up the arse.

If you are one of the other 25%, I’m sorry, you can pull the stick out.

You passed inspection and should get your bond back. If the owner has a problem he/she should take it up with the real estate (not the tenants problem)
I don’t rent (thank God) but if I did I certainly wouldn’t put up with the shit real estates dish out to renters.

There are sure some bleeing hearts here all for the tenants rights. I don’t buy in to it. I am not saying that the OP did wrong, but some of the comments here infuriates me as they shove the stick very hard up land owners arses.

Troll sniffer, if the tenant did take a room are you suggesting that the owner should take legal agent against the tenant? Let me tell you that real estate agents have a national black list of tenants database. Good tenants, will not take advantage of mistakes done by the RE in not noticing that the room is missing, so as to avoid being placed on the blacklist.

And OP what do you mean by “real damage”? You have been in there for a year and he has not yet sold the house after a year on the market? hard to believe. I think you have come to the end of the normal 1 year lease and the owner made the decision to tell you to move out at the end of the lease. Did the owner offer you a new lease? Of course he “used” you to pay rent. What do you think he was going to give the house for free? And the owner promised you a fence? Do you have this in writing somewhere? did you complain during your rental period? Finally, the delay at most to get your bond back is 3 days. No big deal IMHO. Come back on Friday and let us know exactly what the owner said in regards to the final final inspection.

Hi panda,
There is no real damage. We haven’t done anything wrong.
The owner gave us a hard time for a year.He didn’t have to fly in doesen’t live far away,and knew early enough,that we move out.
That is why I am upset. Where is the right for tenants.(There are good ones out there)
He only used us to pay the rent,($495 p w )and hasen’t kept his promise.Put his House on the market For sale after we moved in ….Nice guy isn’t he…???Promised a fence….never happened….So where is the tenants right????
I am so angry about it…

troll-sniffer9:30 pm 16 Jun 10

Pandy said :

What if the owner found real damage (not fair wear and tear) that the real estate agent had missed and was clearly not there on the photographic record?

Yes it happens and no wonder the owner wants to do a bit of a check-up after the real estate agent. And maybe it was because the owner had to fly in from interstate and the tenant kept on changing their final date (yes it does happen).

So who is to blame for the damage? The tenant I would say.

Now you could blame the real estate agent for missing the damage, but a good tenant would fess-up and pay.

So if the OP has not done anything wrong, no problems.

Boy you sure missin da point aren’t you? The OP stated that the agent was happy. Whatever the landlord finds or doesn’t find when he or she visits the property is irrelevant. The owner could find one whole room missing and it still wouldn’t make any difference. The agent did the final inspection under the authority of the landlord and all was well and the bond can be returned to the tenant without delay.

If the landlord did find a room missing, there’s nothing to stop said landlord taking civil action through the courts. However that would be entirely separate from the tenancy bond issue being discussed here.

georgesgenitals8:17 pm 16 Jun 10

Pandy said :

What if the owner found real damage (not fair wear and tear) that the real estate agent had missed and was clearly not there on the photographic record?

Yes it happens and no wonder the owner wants to do a bit of a check-up after the real estate agent. And maybe it was because the owner had to fly in from interstate and the tenant kept on changing their final date (yes it does happen).

That’s an issue between the owner and the RE agent.

What if the owner found real damage (not fair wear and tear) that the real estate agent had missed and was clearly not there on the photographic record?

Yes it happens and no wonder the owner wants to do a bit of a check-up after the real estate agent. And maybe it was because the owner had to fly in from interstate and the tenant kept on changing their final date (yes it does happen).

So who is to blame for the damage? The tenant I would say.

Now you could blame the real estate agent for missing the damage, but a good tenant would fess-up and pay.

So if the OP has not done anything wrong, no problems.

Woody Mann-Caruso6:03 pm 16 Jun 10

First piece of advice I can give you is not to listen to legal advice through the RiotAct… everyone has their own opinions on things – which aren’t exactly right.

Nobody above has said anything incorrect. Inspections requires a week’s written notice. The landlord’s so-called ‘inspection’ (a) isn’t an inspection under the tenancy agreement and (b) isn’t relevant for bond purposes. The tenancy agreement has been terminated, and the property was in the same condition with fair wear and tear as at the commencement of the tenancy. The lessor has no business delaying the bond release process.

Hello,
First I like to say Thank you to all the answers.
I was overwhelmed getting so many replys.
I have to say….The Real Estate is selling this house…
So who ever is renting is always
under the owner. They come first !!! It is my opinion…but I think I am right.
I went to the RE ,have been told,they held the bond till the owner has a look through.
So I rang the bond board and put it in on my own.
I am still upset how unfair the whole thing gets handled.
Thanks again Sabine

icantbelieveitsnotbutter4:19 pm 16 Jun 10

I guess you are relying on getting the money back quickly but if you can wait a week then do that. If not, remember the process to claim the money back takes a while.

In the mean time, be polite and ask for a copy of the agents report in writing. Return the keys if you have not already done so. Don’t agree (in writing) to the second inspection, just acknowledge they are going to do it. Who knows, it may go well? If it does, you’ll have your money back before you know it. If it goes bad, take it to the RTT and follow the advice of previous posts…

First piece of advice I can give you is not to listen to legal advice through the RiotAct… everyone has their own opinions on things – which aren’t exactly right.

For example, the owner does not have to give you 7 days notice to enter the property for an inspection in this instance because you are no longer in legal possession of the property. You have had your final inspection and returned your keys I assume, and stopped paying rent – your tenancy is over and the property is in the possession of the Landlord (through their Agent).

This also works against the Landlord, as it will be nearly impossible to show that you caused the damage, as the damage/dirtiness/or whatever could have been caused after you vacated, and the property was in the Agent’s possession. If the Landlord has any problems they will need to address this by getting the Agent to cough up.

Then I would suggest you get advice from people who know what their talking about like the Tenants Union – http://www.tenantsact.org.au/Advice/bond.html

For example the TU stats this:

“A landlord/agent cannot add items that need repairing, restoring or cleaning after the final inspection has been conducted and you have vacated the premises and have no control over what is happening there. Despite what some agents claim, a landlord cannot do an inspection after you have vacated, if they want to do an inspection it has to be with you at the final inspection.”

Finally, there is currently no point putting in a claim for the bond. The Office of Rental Bonds requires both signatures to release funds (unless they send out a letter without a response within I think 10 days) and the Real Estate Agent aint going to sign before Friday. Wait til Friday, if they dont release it on Friday, then put a claim in. Just be aware that if there is a dispute it will take some time to sort out if it goes to the Tribunal… so if it can be sorted out without resorting to that its best as you’ll get your money quicker.

In case the matter cannot be resolved, I would suggest that you document exactly what the agent said at the final inspection and any further correspondence you have had since then. In either case, even if the Agent plays hardball and refuses to release the bond after the landlords inspection – inevitably they will lose in the Tribunal and it will cost them time and money. I would then complain to Fair Trading about the landlord not complying with the Residential Tenancies Act and Agents Act… but I would only play hardball if you have to.

Argee with all of the above – the Agent is just that, the owners agent, and they have already passed you.

Their covering their ass letting the owner come back through on their own, and probably didn’t give the owner the opportunity to accompany them the first time around. Not your problem.

Besides, consider this situation – when you entered the house and did the initial condition report, did the owner get involved then? If not, how can they verify the condition at the conclusion of the lease is any different to the condition at is commencement?

The fact that agent is the accountable representative, as listed by the above posts, and is letting this occur, indicates to me, that the agent is not doing a decent job.

And maybe the owner thinks the same thing, and legitimately doesn’t trust the agent.
Still, not your fault.
It’s the owners problem. I’d be taking this up with the rental tribunal. The agent should know his job better.

ConanOfCooma1:39 pm 16 Jun 10

You need the minimum notice, which hasn’t been provided.

Advise the agent you would like to make an appointment with them, so that both parties can hop on the phone to the relevant agencies to clarify the legality of what they are trying to do to you.

They are an “agent” for a reason. The owner has delegated responsibility of the house to them. If they wanted to do their own inspections, perhaps they should have rented out privately?

Name and Shame.

And name and shame the RE agent!

Any problems the owner has, you can claim happened between the first and second inspection.
Final inspection is completely non-binding.
Ring Bond Board, and make application for your money.
It’s yours. Not theirs.

Hmmm, slack real estate agent, and you have nothing in writing.

Send an email followed with a snail mail letter stating the facts, and your response – as suggested by#2 above. Make sure you do it in writing.

The owner and RE should really have organised to go through together. Although, given the short timeframe, maybe it’s worthwhile just waiting it out and only reacting if he ‘fails’ you.

The legislation states that there can only be 1 inspection at the start, 2 in a 12 month period, and 1 at the end of a lease. Seeing as you didn’t ‘fail’ the inspection then the owner is in breach of the legislation.

If the owner ‘fails’ you on his inspection then send off your refund of bond form and document all your information in case you need to go to the tribunal. You have a very strong case, as they also failed to provide you with 7 days notice of the owner wishing to attend, so I reckon they’ll back down.

Woody Mann-Caruso12:48 pm 16 Jun 10

No, they can’t. Advise them that:

– clause 78(b) of your residential tenancy agreement provides that the lessor may make an (ie, one) inspection in the last month of the tenancy
– that as per their letter to you of [date], this inspection was scheduled for [date] and in fact occurred on [date]
– that pursuant to clause 75(1) of your agreement, no further inspections may be conducted without an order from the Residential Tenancies Tribunal
– that even if such an inspection was permitted, the lessor is required to give you one week’s written notice – a phone call today is a breach of the Residential Tenancies Act

I’d be checking the leave agreement that you signed but I would think NOT. Unless it is specifcally stated in the lease that the owner can come onto the premises. The lease is there to protect you as well as the owner.

My advice would be to check with the Property manager at the Real Estate agents and confirm that this is legal and within the terms of your lease.

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