7 May 2008

Fog Lights and Driving Lights

| Sgt.Bungers
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After reading some incorrect opinions in this forum regarding fog and driving light use on ACT and NSW roads, I thought I’d attempt to clear things up.There is a lot of general confusion between fog and driving lights, what they are, what differentiates them, and when they may or may not be used.

After years of reading copious amounts of posts on Usenet groups and various driving forums, from police officers, road engineers, road handbook writers, and car enthusiasts, I have a pretty good understanding of fog and driving lights and how they may or may not be used.

If you have an extra set of factory installed white lights on the front of your car, separate to your headlights, that are not parking lights, then they are either fog lights or driving lights. If you have no idea which additional lights your car is equipped with, then follow this basic bit of advice; When driving amongst other traffic in clear conditions, day or night, you may not have either fog lights or driving lights on. Both types of lights are likely to dazzle other drivers and can prove a hazard to them and yourself if not used properly.

In a nutshell: Driving lights can only wired up to be turned on with high beams. Fog lights can only be wired to be turned on with parking lights, low beams or high beams. If you have a set of white lights on the front of your car that are not headlights or parking lights, and may be turned on independently of your headlights or parking lights, then chances are your additional lights are either illegal, or illegally wired.


More detail:Fog lights, when properly wired can be turned on with your parking lights, headlights and high beams. Your parking light switch should act as a “master switch” for your fog lights. When your parking lights are turned off, your fog lights will turn off, even if the fog light switch remains on. Fog lights are designed to light up the roadway underneath fog, hence they are installed lower on the vehicle than regular headlights. Legally fog lights may ONLY be used in fog, or other adverse weather conditions that hamper driving visibility. For best results in fog, fog lights should be turned on with parking lights only, as the light from regular headlights and high beams can reduce visibility by lighting up the fog, instead of the road ahead. Your fog light switch should have a symbol on it that looks like a regular low beam or high beam symbol, with a squiggly line through it. The light pattern from fog lights is wide and short, and will typically light up the road 20-30 metres ahead of your vehicle. If you use your fog lights properly, then you are likely to turn them on only a few times a year.Grey Area: Fog lights are handy at lighting up the sides of the road at night especially in country areas where animals are a threat. If there are no other vehicles around, there is no safety reason why you shouldn’t be able to use your fog lights in clear conditions, as long as you turn them off when other vehicles are approaching, or you begin catching up to another vehicle. Though as the law is written, this is still technically illegal.

Driving Lights, when properly wired may only be turned on with vehicle high beams. Driving lights are designed to complement vehicle high beams during long distance country driving, and therefore are usually installed at the same level as your vehicle headlights, or higher. The higher the lights, the better positioned they are to light up the road in the distance. Driving lights may ONLY legally be used when there are no other vehicles 200metres in front of your vehicle, either approaching, or moving in the same direction as you. This rule also applies for high beam use, though the majority of drivers will turn off their high beams and, if fitted, driving lights as soon as another vehicle is visible ahead at any distance in order to be considerate. There is nothing illegal about using high beams or driving lights in street lit areas if there are no other vehicles ahead of you. The light pattern from driving lights varies from model to model, however a typical driving light will light up the road from between 200 and 500 metres ahead of your vehicle. Top of the range driving lights can light up the road up to 1km ahead of your vehicle.

What’s the problem with using fog lights or driving lights in any other conditions than what they were designed for? Simple. They can be blinding to other drivers. Not only is it incredibly inconsiderate to knowingly blind other drivers, it is also dangerous and you could cause the other driver to crash, possibly into you.

If you wish to improve the visibility of your vehicle during the other day, no worries, just turn on your regular, low beam headlights. This is not illegal or inconsiderate.There are those who insist on driving with their fog lights on in all conditions for various reasons, from they think it looks “cool”, to being unaware of the law, and to light up the sides of the road. Personally, I only care when an oncoming driver has a particularly blinding pair of fog lights lit illegally. For example VT-VZ Commodore fog lights are utterly terrible and incredibly blinding to an oncoming driver. It’s worth noting that there are plenty of drivers who in return for being blinded by a pair of fog lights will not hesitate to blind back with their high beams, though this of course is illegal too.

I hope this clears up any confusion people may have about any additional lights on the front of their car. If not, remember the basic advice from the top of the post: “When driving amongst other traffic in clear conditions, day or night, you may not have either fog lights or driving lights on.”

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Just one more thing to add to this topic (cos it really urks me), on the site ratetheplate.com if people are so dazzled by drving lights and fog lights, how are they able to:

focus on number plate
remember number plate
write number plate down

continue to drive safely after doing the above whilst being dazzled enough to complain about it?!!?

All a bunch of hoo-ha I think. If you’ve really been dazzled by something and it’s caused concern to your safety, you wouldn’t be able to do the above because you’d be focused on driving or about changing your underwear.

My motorbike comes with “on all the time” headlight whilst ignition on. Good idea. After reading stats on silver grey cars “vanishing” in overcast weather, winter background, and around late afternoon, I tend to drive with headlights on. I hope the guy coming toward me has not had his retinas burnt out by bigred’s lights…. I’ fragile.

nothing is better than an array of powerful lights correctly aimed to burn some fool’s retinas. I find if you aim correctly you can create real mayhem. Hey, no one ever checks your aim in this town anyway.

Ingeegoodbee4:01 pm 09 May 08

If anyone comes towards me with fog lights on I just hit my full beams straight back at them.

Which, if done to me is simply an invitation to unleash all four xenon gas discharge HID driving lights on the insolent little prick.

Bludger said :

Yes but Sgt Bungers your sister was blinded by high beams, not driving or fog lights. I’ve been blinded by idiots that don’t dim their high beams many times. My question was about fog/driving lights and accidents caused by these. I don’t think it would be very high.

I’ve noticed on ratetheplate – fog/driving lights are the second most complained about. Half of these are during the day. Does it really bother people that much?!

My point was that bright lights, be it high beams, driving lights or fog lights, will cause someone to be momentarily blinded. Not being able to see for even a few seconds when at the controls of a fast moving machine is a very real hazard. Hence why low beam headlights are angled in such a way so that there should be no beam of light shining into the eyes of drivers of oncoming vehicles, and hence why driving and fog light use is illegal unless used in the right circumstances.

Considering with a vehicle, we’re not just talking about the couple of seconds it takes the human eye to reajust after copping a bright light, but also for the time someone actually has the light in their eyes, with the vehicle approaching, their sight is deminished. This could amount to quite some time…

Driving lights and high beams are not designed with any concern for the safety of other drivers, and neither are cheaper fog lights. Driving with fog lights or driving lights on with other traffic around simply adds another hazard to what is already one of the most dangerous activities many people will undertake in any given day.

With so many people complaining about it, it obviously annoys people. To be honest I think you’ll be hard pressed finding anyone who enjoys having bright lights shone in their eyes at any time. I also think you’ll be hard pressed finding anyone who think’s it’s not a hazard to have a closing speed of up to 200km/h with another vehicle, when the driver of that vehicle cannot see properly.

man i hate coding – the quote was the first 2 lines and my comments the rest

Comments: Not too sure why you would still be doing 108km/h while being blinded?

If anyone was blinding me whilst driving my tonne of steel i would slow down – if anything blocks your vision you’re meant to brake and slow down.
Same with driving over a blind hill or a blind bend – you’re meant to brake to avoid a collision because you don’t know what is waiting for you at the other end. Same applies for being blinded – not rocket science.
Also if you reduce you spead by 20km you reduce your stopping distance and reaction time.

Again… beyond me why you would still be doing 108km/h or as you said 30mtrs per second while having your vision invaded.

tsk tsk tsk silly silly silly….

Sgt.Bungers said :

Bludger said :

Not only that, it’s simply unpleasant to be blinded by any light whilst controlling a several tonne piece of machinery moving at up to 30 metres a second.

Not too sure why you would still be doing 108km/h while being blinded?

If anyone was blinding me whilst driving my tonne of steel i would slow down – if anything blocks your vision you’re meant to brake and slow down.
Same with driving over a blind hill or a blind bend – you’re meant to brake to avoid a collision because you don’t know what is waiting for you at the other end. Same applies for being blinded – not rocket science.
Also if you reduce you spead by 20km you reduce your stopping distance and reaction time.

Again… beyond me why you would still be doing 108km/h or as you said 30mtrs per second while having your vision invaded.

tsk tsk tsk silly silly silly….

Yes but Sgt Bungers your sister was blinded by high beams, not driving or fog lights. I’ve been blinded by idiots that don’t dim their high beams many times. My question was about fog/driving lights and accidents caused by these. I don’t think it would be very high.

I’ve noticed on ratetheplate – fog/driving lights are the second most complained about. Half of these are during the day. Does it really bother people that much?!

Holden Caulfield10:07 am 09 May 08

Sgt.Bungers said :

The only disadvantage to it is that studies have shown an average 0.17% increase in fuel consumption whilst headlights are on due to the extra load on the alternator, and of course going through bulbs at a higher rate.

Hardly a disadvantage is it. 🙂

In regards to head lights on during clear daylight conditions… Personally drive with my lights on all the time. After years of country driving where it was clear to me how much easier it was to spot a vehicle in the distance that had it’s lights on, it has simply become habit that I do the same… ignition on, headlights on. I don’t even think about it.

The only disadvantage to it is that studies have shown an average 0.17% increase in fuel consumption whilst headlights are on due to the extra load on the alternator, and of course going through bulbs at a higher rate.

Queenie has questioned whether drivers with a ‘lights on’ mentality are perhaps predisposed to safer driving.

My example of the surveys of fleets experiencing a 15% reduction in accidents also indirectly linked to Telstra.

From observation of ex Telstra vehicles, I believe they are hard wired to illuminate the low beam lights whenever the engine is going.

Nothing to do with driver competence.

or lights on even…

I think it’s worse to be dazzled by someone on the phone while driving, changing their radio station/cd, driving through your drivers side door when you didn’t see them because they didn’t have their lights one, etc.

Bludger said :

Since everyone goes on and on about fog lights and driving lights – is there any statistic for accidents caused due to ‘dazzling’ fog/driving lights? Or does anyone even know of someone that has been in an accident due to being ‘dazzled’ by fog/driving lights? I just find this whole topic absurd.

Not sure if anyone asked this Question before, didn’t read entire post. I must have been dazzled…

Bludger, my sister had an accident about a year ago after being blinded by high beams. Immediately after passing the oncoming vehicle with it’s high beams on, there was a kangaroo in the middle of the road which she was then unable to avoid. Chances are, the driver of the vehicle accidentally left their beams on whilst concentrating on the roo, or possibly deliberately left them on so as to see what the roo was doing, without regard for the driver of the vehicle coming the other way (my sister). The result, one dead roo and several grand damage to a car. Lucky it was only a roo and not a person.

If the oncoming car had been equipped with driving lights as well, the situation would have been even more dangerous, given driving lights are simply additional, brighter high beams.

With some fog lights being as blinding as some high beams, especially when comparing the high beams of older cars to cheap and badly designed fog lights (late Commodore range), the potential for an accident is there, albeit low.

Not only that, it’s simply unpleasant to be blinded by any light whilst controlling a several tonne piece of machinery moving at up to 30 metres a second.

Since everyone goes on and on about fog lights and driving lights – is there any statistic for accidents caused due to ‘dazzling’ fog/driving lights? Or does anyone even know of someone that has been in an accident due to being ‘dazzled’ by fog/driving lights? I just find this whole topic absurd.

Not sure if anyone asked this Question before, didn’t read entire post. I must have been dazzled…

Holden Caulfield3:45 pm 08 May 08

It’s not an argument Queenie, just trying to get you to open your eyes to other possibilities, and cars, as it turns out. 😉

Where’s the proof driving with your headlights on makes you more visible?

Here

Here

or for the overall discussion of pros & cons,

Here

These studies that show that people who drive with their lights on have 15% less accidents might not necessarily be because they have their lights on. It might be because they are more conscientious drivers and are careful about driving (they think putting their lights on will help so they do it). There’s all sorts of crazy variables there.

But then again, I’m not the one who conducted the study and I’m not going to bother reading a whole lot of boring stuff just to try and ‘win’ somebody else’s argument against me. Arguing on the internet = winning the Paralympics, still retarded, etc.

Holden Caulfield11:58 am 08 May 08

Queenie said :

Really, people saying that headlights increase your visibility during the day is bull. [b]Unless you have a sight impairment…[/b]

…I’m quite light-sensitive and have problems seeing the road just with normal car headlights…

Queenie, if you’re having problems with regular headlights during the night, it’s no wonder you can’t see the benefit of using low beams during the day. Please let me know where you usually drive so I can be sure to avoid you.

As for studies that prove the benefits of Daytime Running Lights (DRLs)–which to be fair, can be a modified light output compared to normal low beam–have a read of the following links (make sure you’ve got your glasses on too):
http://www.mynrma.com.au/cps/rde/xchg/mynrma/hs.xsl/releases2003_41.htm
http://www.tc.gc.ca/road/faq.htm#daytimerunninglights
http://www.usroads.com/journals/rmej/9912/rm991203.htm

Holden Caulfield11:49 am 08 May 08

The “but it increases my field of view” argument can be flawed in some instances. Depending on the spread of fog lights the last thing you want to be doing at night time is increasing your field of view immediately in front or to the side of you. Ideally you’d be raising your eyes and well past the danger stage of any area being lit up by your fog lights.

belray said :

I drive a 4WD and drive with my fog lights on at night. Why? It increases my field of view and I didn’t know it was illegal. Will I continue? Because it is illegal, probably not.

Belray you’re not alone with this. It’d be safe to say that most people who drive with fog lights on for whatever reason, simply don’t know it’s illegal. Chances are there’ll be many who don’t even know they’re on.

However no reasonable police officer will book you if you use your lights at night, and turn them off when a vehicle appears in front of you, same as you would high beams.

bd84 said :

While slightly long winded, I totally agree with the point. Someone should beat the point into the fckers who break the law by using these lights. My car is fitted with these lights, they remain off 97% of the time the other 3% is made up of 1% in the fog, 1% when I occasionally bump the switch when using the main headlights and the other 1% is when I use them to flash the morons who drive with them turned on to indicate for them to turn them off, who are normally too moronic to realise anyway.

The major offenders: Ford Falcon drivers – latest BA/BF models, closely followed by 4WD drivers (all makes), but people driving small cars are becomming more common. One day i’m just going to kick the lights of a car in, maybe they will get the point then

I drive a 4WD and drive with my fog lights on at night. Why? It increases my field of view and I didn’t know it was illegal. Will I continue? Because it is illegal, probably not.

Oh yeah, feel free to kick my lights in, because when you get out of hospital, I will have you for malicious damage (apparently, kicking ones lights in is illegal as well).

I have to agree. Low beam on during the day, does increase your profile to other drivers. Think of it as the same as the difference between seeing a grey coloured vehicle and a lime green one. Having low beams on during the day is another thing that will easily catch the eye of other drivers. That is why a lot of recent motorcycles brought out in Australia are hard wired for the low beams to operate automatically (you cannot turn them off).

Again, I have to point out to you people that poorly aligned headlights is Government policy. More correctly, doing absolutely squat in the way of annual, biannual, triennial inspections is the policy.

You can have misaligned headlights, no brakes, canvas showing on tyres, zero brake lights, shit awful tinting, and any amount of suspension/engine mods, and still find that rego and insurance are optional.

What will it take for our elected ignoramuses (ignorami??) to reinstate some sort of compulsory inspection of vehicles?

Look around you at some of the shitboxes on our roads.

I apologise to the readership that diligently maintain their vehicles. Alas, you are not in the majority.

As for driver education…don’t get me started. See above post where someone admitted to not knowing what driving lights are.

No one seemed to mention that ADR’s specify xenon headlights must be accompanied by headlight washers. But hey, you can get these really cool kits on eBay and just throw them at your car and they look cool. Not well adjusted, or useful in the dark, just cool looking.

It’s a cruel world.

Queenie said :

Really, people saying that headlights increase your visibility during the day is bull. Unless you have a sight impairment, that cannot possibly help you see a car behind you, in front of you, wherever. It especially can’t help you see one in your blind spot or one coming in from the side. Where’s the proof driving with your headlights on makes you more visible? It doesn’t blind me, but it just made me wonder about what sort of misconceptions people have to make them do this.

About being dazzled at night by xenon headlights, I’m quite light-sensitive and have problems seeing the road just with normal car headlights, let alone these awful inventions! I’m not sure if tinted windows help with oncoming headlights, but I don’t have them anyway. I heard a long time ago that rainbow-faceted headlights were illegal… Is this true?

It’s been proven by motoring organisations such as the NRMA that driving with your headlights on during the day, they even recomment it particularly on long hall highways reduces the chance of you having an accident (with another vehicle). People are more likey to notice your vehicle as it makes it stand out from the surrounds. It is also the reason motorcyclists always drive with their headlight on all the time as drivers are more likely to notice the bike behind them. Of course people won’t notice anyone behind them because 50% of the drivers around here have never heard or thought of doing a headcheck before changing lanes.

As for xenon headlights, they are perfectly legal, however the majority of the cars I see with them they are badly out of alignment and do dazzle.

These are the rules for headlights in Canberra:
* Cars are driven by morons with driving/fog lights on to dazzle you from seeing anything;
* either that or defective and only have one working headlight or none so we drive using the driving lights instead;
* everyone can see you driving without headlights on in dusk conditions until it is pitch black;
* everyone can see you when you drive without your headlights on when it is pissing down with rain or in thick fog.

I put them on on the highway (used to be foglights but I didn’t realise that it offended so many people). I’m sure my foglights aren’t as bright as my low beams.

I had a near miss on the highway a few years ago and just thought if there is even a slight chance that having your lights on might save your life then why not.

A survey of fleet operators, and I would suggest Telstra would be one of the majors, has shown a 15% reduction in accidents by vehicles using low beam lights through the day.

I am sold on the idea, and use low beam on at all times. No accidents in the last long time.

Queenie,
Google is your friend.

http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/2003/Cons_Lights.aspx

Also, have you told Road User Services that you have trouble seeing the road because of standard oncoming headlights?? I would like to see if they let you keep your licence if you are that light sensitive.

Queenie: Tinted windows won’t help much with oncoming traffic – Tinting the windscreen is illegal, only side/rear windows can be done.

Really, people saying that headlights increase your visibility during the day is bull. Unless you have a sight impairment, that cannot possibly help you see a car behind you, in front of you, wherever. It especially can’t help you see one in your blind spot or one coming in from the side. Where’s the proof driving with your headlights on makes you more visible? It doesn’t blind me, but it just made me wonder about what sort of misconceptions people have to make them do this.

About being dazzled at night by xenon headlights, I’m quite light-sensitive and have problems seeing the road just with normal car headlights, let alone these awful inventions! I’m not sure if tinted windows help with oncoming headlights, but I don’t have them anyway. I heard a long time ago that rainbow-faceted headlights were illegal… Is this true?

4WDs coming up behind me, even when they have their low beams on, is also a problem because their headlights are positioned just perfectly to shine into my eyes via my car’s rear view mirror AND the side mirror, and I can’t reposition the latter while driving 🙁

la mente torbida3:56 pm 07 May 08

@ Holden Caulfield

My car is a darkish grey colour and quite small (read: MX5).

] In other words, it is difficult for other road users to even notice me in anything but optimum lighting conditions. Hence, in early morning and late afternoon, I drive with my low beam on (perish the thought I would use my fog lights when there is no fog) to enable the 4WD brigade to see me and have something to aim for.

Holden Caulfield12:16 pm 07 May 08

Hugo said :

My pet aversion is having a vehicle FOLLOWING you with their headlights on high beam in daylight. There is no way to tell the buggers to switch down/off because they are blinding you in the rearview mirror. Changing the mirror to night vision simply endangers you. I don’t think headlights of ANY kind should be used in daylight unless conditions warrant it.

That’s a load of cobblers. I’ll grant you the high beam thing, but that’s more likely to be done by a driver who doesn’t indicate, leave enough room behind the car in front, etc, etc, in other words a d–khead driver.

But low beam headlights during the day is actually a very useful way to increase your visibility to other motorists, especially in dark coloured cars. I don’t do this so much around town (although my previous car was black and I ran low beams during daylight hours–especially useful in many of Canberra’s tree lined suburbs), but I will always use low beams during daylights hours for country driving. Next time you’re outside the city limits just see how much more visible a car with low beams on is compared to one without. This also ties in to my previous post about driving at dusk.

That people are unable to grasp this basic aspect of passive road safety is a sad indictment on the basic level of awareness and road courtesy to other drivers shown by the average motorist.

Sorry, these things are a pet hate of mine. I’m a bit more lax on the foglight issue, because, whether by intent or otherwise, at least people are making themselves more visible to other road users.

Holden Caulfield12:14 pm 07 May 08

Hugo said :

My pet aversion is having a vehicle FOLLOWING you with their headlights on high beam in daylight. There is no way to tell the buggers to switch down/off because they are blinding you in the rearview mirror. Changing the mirror to night vision simply endangers you. I don’t think headlights of ANY kind should be used in daylight unless conditions warrant it.

That’s a load of cobblers. I’ll grant you the high beam thing, but that’s more likely to be done by a driver who doesn’t indicate, leave enough room behind the car in front, etc, etc, in other words a dickhead driver.

But low beam headlights during the day is actually a very useful way to increase your visibility to other motorists, especially in dark coloured cars. I don’t do this so much around town (although my previous car was black and I ran low beams during daylight hours–especially sueful in many of Canberra’s tree lined suburbs), but I will always use low beams during daylights hours for country driving. Next time you’re outside the city limits just see how much more visible a car with low beams on is compared to one without. This also ties in to my previous post about driving at dusk.

That people are unable to grasp this basic aspect of passive road safety is a sad indictment on the basic level of awareness and road courtesy to other drivers shown by the average motorist.

Sorry, these things are a pet hate of mine. I’m a bit more lax on the foglight issue, because, whether by intent or otherwise, at least people are making themselves more visible to other road users.

Holden Caulfield12:07 pm 07 May 08

Mr Waffle said :

Bit surprised xenon headlights haven’t been brought up. A bit unpleasant to get an eyeful of, but bloody brilliant for lighting up the road in front of you!

Like foglights, the dazzle effect of xenons is largely dependent on the car. For example, as noted, the foglights on the VT-VZ Commodores are shizen for oncoming drivers, whereas foglights on many other cars are not really an issue to oncoming drivers. Similarly, xenons on Honda Accords are a pain in the arse to oncoming drivers at any time of day and a right pain if you have one behind you at night. Most xenons these days are not a huge problem IMO, just a select few.

Sgt.Bungers, for your next lesson, can you please explain how beneficial it is for drivers to have their low beam lights on in the late afternoon/dusk period of the day, even though it may not light up the road ahead for their own benefit. It seems apparent that drivers only care what they do to themselves and have no care about making themselves more visible to other motorists.

And I can’t wait for your observations on cyclists…

If anyone comes towards me with fog lights on I just hit my full beams straight back at them. They are so stupid though they don’t take the hint. They think you’re flashing them to slow down for a speed van. As if!

Nice one Sgt.Bungers. I think I am in a similar position to many drivers in that I find it really annoying, but have never really seen the laws surrounding fog/driving lights clearly set out.

A related problem that I frequently see is vehicles that have had their suspension hight changed, and not had their headlights adjusted to suit. Low beams are designed to shine down at a small angle and have the top right hand corner cut out of the beam to stop them dazzling oncoming traffic. Changing the angle and hight that a vehicle sits on the road also changes this angle. This is made worse by the current trend to have vehicles sitting lower at the back than at the front.

I worked in the auto industry in Canberra for 10 years, and was fortunate to have this issue banged in to my head by a mechanic during my apprenticeship. Unfortunately, I don’t think that there are enough mechanics out there who think to adjust the headlights when they lower or raise a vehicles suspension. It is a five minute job if you have the right equipment (I think any shop that does rego checks has to have the equipment) and should have zero impact on the cost of a suspension job.

The most useless accessory for a car in Australia is what I have on the front of my SAAB – those little window washers on the headlights. I have never been caught in a snowstorm at night, but I eagerly await it because I will be ready.

And yes I am one of those tossers who drive around during the day with my lights on. Why? Because it’s less likely some moron will hit me. Lights on does make your car more visible. And the SAAB is designed so you don’t have to think about the lights – you can leave them on all the time. It’s a legal requirement to have lights on 24 hours a day in Sweden.

I don’t understand those people who have their lights on high beam in the middle of the day though.

Queenie, headlights on low beam through the day can’t hurt – it doesn’t blind anyone, and does increase the visibility of vehicles, particlarly grey cars. I’d rather leave my low beams on then have someone merge into the side of me.

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy11:07 am 07 May 08

The idea of driving with low beam lights on during the day is about when driving long distance on the flatter areas of Australia. Because the road ahead often dissolves into a heat haze, having your low beam lights on allows you be seen earlier, and reduces the possibility of someone being halfway through overtaking when you ‘appear’.

Having driving lights fitted to cars as standard is a relatively new thing. Realistically, unless you do a lot of night driving outside the city, they aren’t much use.

cpt destruction10:50 am 07 May 08

Queenie said :

If so, WHY?

Speaking for Subaru drivers I’ll say it’s an accident. The headlights are wired to the ignition.. and some mornings you just don’t notice leaving them on from the night before.

But the Subaru drivers with foglights on during the middle of the day are nobnobs. The foglight button has to be pressed after the car has started.

I’ve never heard of driving lights, I drive a car made in 1976… But I’ve always wondered why there are so many people in Canberra who drive around with their headlights on in broad daylight. Is there anyone here who actually does this? If so, WHY? It doesn’t increase visibility in the slightest or make you more visible on the road.

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy10:10 am 07 May 08

Agreed. Having them set to always be on whenever the high beam is on means they also light up if you need to ‘flash’ other drivers.

Back in uni days I had a car with uprated headlights (100 watt high beams instead of 60 watt standard high beam), and big driving lights with 130 watt globes (normally 60 -100 watts), which were set up using the standard high beam only electrics. It meant that when someone coming the other way didn’t dip their lights, I could turn night into day very briefly. Also, I could drive past fixed speed cameras at whatever speed I like (they were only on the Hume Hwy back then) and flash my lights going past, and the infra-red (heat) frequencies emitted by the lights would overexpose the photo, making me practially uncatchable…

chaton said :

can I ask, will it do any damage to my driving lights if I just switch them off by switching off the high beams? In a highway scenario, I don’t want to be stuffing around with the switch down under the dash every time I see a car ahead – thoughts???

Chaton, no damage whatsoever. I’ve had driving lights on my car for 6 years and pretty much permanently leave the driving light switch on, letting the regular high beam switch act as a master. A good driving light kit properly wired will have this sort of use designed into it. Cheers.

el said :

…though the majority of drivers will turn off their high beams and, if fitted, driving lights as soon as another vehicle is visible ahead at any distance in order to be considerate.

Yer not from around here, are ya boy?

El, I’ve been in the Canberra region since 1988. Weston Creek and Bungendore. In my experience I can safely say that around 80% or so of drivers turn off their beams immediately upon realising I’m approaching from the other direction. 19% are a tad slow on the uptake, but will get them off before the 200 metre mark. The remaining 1% need a reminder that it’s not nice to be blinded with high beams 🙂

My pet aversion is having a vehicle FOLLOWING you with their headlights on high beam in daylight. There is no way to tell the buggers to switch down/off because they are blinding you in the rearview mirror. Changing the mirror to night vision simply endangers you. I don’t think headlights of ANY kind should be used in daylight unless conditions warrant it.

And what about xenon driving lights? Surely designed by Martians?

Use ’em in the rain?

No damage whatsoever, and likely how they were designed to be used.

can I ask, will it do any damage to my driving lights if I just switch them off by switching off the high beams? In a highway scenario, I don’t want to be stuffing around with the switch down under the dash every time I see a car ahead – thoughts???

Bit surprised xenon headlights haven’t been brought up. A bit unpleasant to get an eyeful of, but bloody brilliant for lighting up the road in front of you!

The “National Road Test” TV special has a lot to answer for, 200m is way too close with modern high beams. Combine that with our bureaucratic tradition, take the letter of the law over common sense to justify selfishness.

While slightly long winded, I totally agree with the point. Someone should beat the point into the fckers who break the law by using these lights. My car is fitted with these lights, they remain off 97% of the time the other 3% is made up of 1% in the fog, 1% when I occasionally bump the switch when using the main headlights and the other 1% is when I use them to flash the morons who drive with them turned on to indicate for them to turn them off, who are normally too moronic to realise anyway.

The major offenders: Ford Falcon drivers – latest BA/BF models, closely followed by 4WD drivers (all makes), but people driving small cars are becomming more common. One day i’m just going to kick the lights of a car in, maybe they will get the point then

I’m not sure why the manufacturers don’t just make soft switches for the driving/fog/wanker lights.

That way, every time you switch off your headlights or stop/start your car they will be off by default.

Surely that would have to result in about an 80-90% reduction in the use of them at inappropriate times.

…though the majority of drivers will turn off their high beams and, if fitted, driving lights as soon as another vehicle is visible ahead at any distance in order to be considerate.

Yer not from around here, are ya boy?

Thank you, Bungers. Now we just need to mount a few dozen cameras around the city that catch and fine the whackers. Now that’s highly likely – not. To get back to the thread that started all this off, the only infraction that will get you in this city is doing 5kmh over the posted limit. Nothing else ever gets enforced, and the message that sends is that everything but speeding is OK.

That’s why we have so many d*ckheads talking on phones, hogging right hand lanes, never using indicators, and blinding other drivers with their wanker-lights.

You’ve forgotten one very important point: a large majority of the people who drive around with their fog lights on, are doing it because it makes their car look ‘cool’.

When framed in this context, this entire diatribe becomes irrelevant.

thanks for that! I just bought a car with driving lights, and I would not have known what they were for or that I could only turn them on when the high beams are on. Thanks again.

I’ve always wondered about why car makers insist on adding foglights to every new vehicle. There really isn’t any need for them in Australia as compared to say Europe where they are beneficial for driving in snow and sleet. They must be one of the most pointless accessories ever. A bit like sunroofs – why, in the one of hottest countries on Earth would you want a window in your roof to let in more sun? Again, in Europe where it can be grey and dreary for months on end, they have a purpose but not here.

And what about rear foglights? They are much more dazzling that front ones.

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