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Greens’ extremist legisation Smoking in cars with children [With Poll]

Sarni 13 October 2011 31

In NSW Smoking in a car with a child under the age of 16 is against the law. The NSW Public Health (Tobacco) Act 2008 creates an offence  of smoking in a car with a child under 16 years of age in the vehicle. A $250 on the spot fine applies to the driver and any passenger who breaks the law .  This is a good law – it protects public health  and imposes a reasonable fine.

A draft ACT law – Smoking in Cars with Children (Prohibition) Bill 2011 – would create similar offence but is a bad law as it imposes a draconic penalty of $5500 . This is typical of extremist Green sponsored legisation. In November 2011  a new ACT Greens sponsored law will come into effect which imposes a $5500 thousand dollar fine on a retailer or his staff who provides a one plastic shopping bag to a customer.

What are the views of the Canberra citizenry on the Greens’s draconic legislation?

What draconic legislation will the Greens insist on next?

Appropriate penalty for smoking in cars with children

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UPDATE: The Greens have been in touch to clarify that the Smoking in Cars with Children (Prohibition) Bill 2011 was tabled by the ALP Government, not the Greens.


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31 Responses to Greens’ extremist legisation Smoking in cars with children [With Poll]
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buzz819 11:08 am 27 Oct 11

Righto… It’s about time it was said, ban kids and you wouldn’t have to worry about the smokers!

Jim Jones 9:44 am 27 Oct 11

Sarni said :

Kate_Greens said :

Correction for poster.

The Smoking in Cars with Children (Prohibition) Bill 2011 was tabled by the Minister for Health, of ACT Government. The legislation exists in every jurisdiction except Northern Territory.

The point is that the penalty in the Bill for smoking in cars with kids is extremist and savage. I was not arguing that there should be no law prohibiting smoking in cars with kids

First the proposed amount of the ACT penalty is $5500.00) In the Northern Territory there appears to be no law at all as far as I can see. In NSW an on the spot fine of $250 applies. In South Australia and Tasmania the maximum penalty is $200.00. In W.A the maximum penalty is $1000.00. In Victoria it is five penalty units (about $600.00) In Queensland the penalty is $500.00. In Tasmania there is an on the spot fine of $120.

Second, the ACT proposed law (unlike the laws in the States) makes smoking in these circumstances a strict liability offence. A strict liability offence is one where the prosecution does not have to prove criminal intention or fault. Strict liability offences are almost always minor offences such as parking offences where the penalty is relatively small.

Third the law and its extreme penalty will mainly impact on the disadvantaged people in our Territory (for example studies have shown that young and poor women are more likely than others to take up smoking).

It’s a $250 fine. The Act also provides for a higher fine of up to $5500 if the offence goes to court.

As for a liability offence – in this it’s similar to talking on a mobile phone while driving.

Sarni 9:33 am 27 Oct 11

Kate_Greens said :

Correction for poster.

The Smoking in Cars with Children (Prohibition) Bill 2011 was tabled by the Minister for Health, of ACT Government. The legislation exists in every jurisdiction except Northern Territory.

The point is that the penalty in the Bill for smoking in cars with kids is extremist and savage. I was not arguing that there should be no law prohibiting smoking in cars with kids

First the proposed amount of the ACT penalty is $5500.00) In the Northern Territory there appears to be no law at all as far as I can see. In NSW an on the spot fine of $250 applies. In South Australia and Tasmania the maximum penalty is $200.00. In W.A the maximum penalty is $1000.00. In Victoria it is five penalty units (about $600.00) In Queensland the penalty is $500.00. In Tasmania there is an on the spot fine of $120.

Second, the ACT proposed law (unlike the laws in the States) makes smoking in these circumstances a strict liability offence. A strict liability offence is one where the prosecution does not have to prove criminal intention or fault. Strict liability offences are almost always minor offences such as parking offences where the penalty is relatively small.

Third the law and its extreme penalty will mainly impact on the disadvantaged people in our Territory (for example studies have shown that young and poor women are more likely than others to take up smoking).

Wanda 2:38 am 17 Oct 11

No free quit smoking options in Canberra ! Given the huge increasing tobacco tax it seems to me legislators are exploiting addiction.

Solidarity 11:54 am 12 Oct 11

Jivrashia said :

Solidarity said :

Better not drink a beer with friends, hell better not drink a can of Coke with friends, you’re exposing people to DRUGS.

I’m sure a beer or two behind the wheels is perfectly fine by your standard…

Nah I don’t drink.

Rangi 10:18 am 12 Oct 11

wildturkeycanoe said :

Smoking whilst driving exposes the passengers to the same risk of a car accident as if you were on a mobile phone, drinking a cup of coffee, doing your makeup or trying to change the CD. Distractions that make you take your eyes off the road are as much of a hazard as the long term health effects of second hand smoke.

+1 what he said

Years ago, I was in the car with a mate of mine who was a smoker, and he dropped his smoke and it somehow went inside the leg of his footy shorts, quite funny but could of ended very badly.

Smoking in cars should be the same as using a phone while driving.

Not smoking around children well really that should be common sense, but sadly stupidity and selfishness often go hand in hand

Jim Jones 10:01 am 12 Oct 11

2604 said :

Jim Jones said :

Pretty typical that the dude banging on about how evil the Greens are doesn’t know how to use words of more than two syllables or construct a sentence.

Pretty typical that a low-level university administrator is so dismissive of anyone who has a problem with the Greens.

Wrong.

Try again.

colourful sydney racing identity 9:43 am 12 Oct 11

Smoking around children in a confined space is child abuse.

wildturkeycanoe 5:54 am 12 Oct 11

Smoking whilst driving exposes the passengers to the same risk of a car accident as if you were on a mobile phone, drinking a cup of coffee, doing your makeup or trying to change the CD. Distractions that make you take your eyes off the road are as much of a hazard as the long term health effects of second hand smoke.

peterepete 5:54 am 12 Oct 11

Did you know that children whose dads don’t eat fruit are less likely to eat fruit themselves? This is in contravention of recommending healthy eating guidelines. I don’t mean to downplay the harmful effects of youngsters sitting in a small fume cupboard full of cigarette smoke but I think that we may have stepped across the line between what is worth legislating and not.

Jivrashia 10:28 pm 11 Oct 11

Solidarity said :

Better not drink a beer with friends, hell better not drink a can of Coke with friends, you’re exposing people to DRUGS.

I’m sure a beer or two behind the wheels is perfectly fine by your standard…

2604 9:17 pm 11 Oct 11

Jim Jones said :

Pretty typical that the dude banging on about how evil the Greens are doesn’t know how to use words of more than two syllables or construct a sentence.

Pretty typical that a low-level university administrator is so dismissive of anyone who has a problem with the Greens.

Grail 12:30 pm 11 Oct 11

Classified said :

“You should never take drugs during exam preparation study, as those drugs may not be available to you during the actual exam.”

I saw that in action once — one guy had been on caffeine tablets during his 48-hour cramming session. The invigilators wouldn’t let him take his tablets during the exam (no prescription, no drugs), and half an hour into the three hour exam he was punching out the Zs.

Grail 12:26 pm 11 Oct 11

Solidarity said :

Better not drink a beer with friends, hell better not drink a can of Coke with friends, you’re exposing people to DRUGS.

By drinking beer, you are not forcing anyone else to drink beer (and while it may be habit-forming and induce a physical dependence over time, alcohol is not addictive by nature). By snorting cocaine, you are not forcing anyone else to snort cocaine.

By smoking cigarettes, you are forcing those around you to smoke cigarettes.

Classified 12:06 pm 11 Oct 11

Jim Jones said :

Classified said :

Solidarity said :

Grail said :

Smoking is a drug habit. Smoking while you have other people in your car is effectively pushing your habit and should be punished as such.

Involuntary, unavoidable exposure of other people to the hazards of your drug habit is worse than simply having a drug habit.

If you have responsibility for caring for certain people, you wouldn’t intentionally expose them to cocaine or heroin, so why would you expose them to nicotine?

Better not drink a beer with friends, hell better not drink a can of Coke with friends, you’re exposing people to DRUGS.

Are you forcing them to drink it?

Also, you shouldn’t have to share your drugs with children unless they have the cash to pay for their share.

Reminds me of Triple-J’s study tips when I was at uni during the mid nineties:

“You should never take drugs during exam preparation study, as those drugs may not be available to you during the actual exam.”

Solidarity 11:47 am 11 Oct 11

Classified said :

Solidarity said :

Grail said :

Smoking is a drug habit. Smoking while you have other people in your car is effectively pushing your habit and should be punished as such.

Involuntary, unavoidable exposure of other people to the hazards of your drug habit is worse than simply having a drug habit.

If you have responsibility for caring for certain people, you wouldn’t intentionally expose them to cocaine or heroin, so why would you expose them to nicotine?

Better not drink a beer with friends, hell better not drink a can of Coke with friends, you’re exposing people to DRUGS.

Are you forcing them to drink it?

No, much like how someone on cocaine or heroin doesn’t force people to take it.

Jim Jones 11:45 am 11 Oct 11

“Greens’s draconic legislation”

Legislation about dragons?

Pretty typical that the dude banging on about how evil the Greens are doesn’t know how to use words of more than two syllables or construct a sentence.

Jim Jones 11:42 am 11 Oct 11

Classified said :

Solidarity said :

Grail said :

Smoking is a drug habit. Smoking while you have other people in your car is effectively pushing your habit and should be punished as such.

Involuntary, unavoidable exposure of other people to the hazards of your drug habit is worse than simply having a drug habit.

If you have responsibility for caring for certain people, you wouldn’t intentionally expose them to cocaine or heroin, so why would you expose them to nicotine?

Better not drink a beer with friends, hell better not drink a can of Coke with friends, you’re exposing people to DRUGS.

Are you forcing them to drink it?

Also, you shouldn’t have to share your drugs with children unless they have the cash to pay for their share.

Classified 11:37 am 11 Oct 11

Solidarity said :

Grail said :

Smoking is a drug habit. Smoking while you have other people in your car is effectively pushing your habit and should be punished as such.

Involuntary, unavoidable exposure of other people to the hazards of your drug habit is worse than simply having a drug habit.

If you have responsibility for caring for certain people, you wouldn’t intentionally expose them to cocaine or heroin, so why would you expose them to nicotine?

Better not drink a beer with friends, hell better not drink a can of Coke with friends, you’re exposing people to DRUGS.

Are you forcing them to drink it?

Solidarity 11:34 am 11 Oct 11

Grail said :

Smoking is a drug habit. Smoking while you have other people in your car is effectively pushing your habit and should be punished as such.

Involuntary, unavoidable exposure of other people to the hazards of your drug habit is worse than simply having a drug habit.

If you have responsibility for caring for certain people, you wouldn’t intentionally expose them to cocaine or heroin, so why would you expose them to nicotine?

Better not drink a beer with friends, hell better not drink a can of Coke with friends, you’re exposing people to DRUGS.

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