9 November 2011

Greens not thrilled by public housing reduction at Northbourne Flats

9 November 2011 | johnboy

The Greens’ Amanda Bresnan is expressing displeasure at the plans for the Northbourne Flats which will see public housing spaces drop from 248 to 90.

“I’m pleased to see the redevelopment of the Northbourne flats site awarded to a design that incorporates good sustainability principles. However the Government must not use the redevelopment as a way to reduce the number of public housing dwellings, especially as the flats are located close to Civic and to transport and services,” Ms Bresnan said today.

“We’ve seen a decrease in the number of public housing dwellings at the site of the ABC flats, and an increase in moving public housing stock into outer suburbs.

“It is disappointing to see this happen to Northbourne Flats as well, and it presents a major disadvantage for current and future public housing tenants.

“The Greens don’t support the continual relocation of public housing away from central services. People in public housing should benefit from redevelopments such as Northbourne Flats and be able to remain in a central location such as Civic if they choose to,” Ms Bresnan said.

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Mordd9:02 pm 15 Dec 11

sarahsarah said :

I love how the lady riding the bike doesn’t have a helmet on.

Of course not, it wouldn’t be canberra otherwise.

260410:15 pm 10 Nov 11

poetix said :

God help those in society who are ‘unproductive’. That sort of language is probably still used in the Peoples Republic of China, well known for its respect for the individual. ‘They’ (meaning the poor) deserve housing because ‘they’ need it. And because of that, it should be decent housing, preferably near to shops and facilities. People lucky enough to have their own housing and good jobs should understand that it is largely a matter of luck. The ability to work hard, often in an interesting and/or well-paid job is something to be grateful for, not something to make you think you are better than others. Dragging in the obvious exceptions, such as the politician who was in a Housing Trust house for a while, is intellectually lazy.

Just today I saw a group of public servants, perhaps at the lofty height of ASO 5s (!), laughing at an obviously disabled man who was wearing a makeshift raincoat to protect himself from the rain. (And yes, I was driving my nice warm car into the city as I watched this lovely bit of theatre.) Those who begrudge people good public housing are morally on the same level as that group of insignificant, cruel, self-regarding pricks.

What a load of naive and disingenuous nonsense.

I find it ironic that you want to talk about intellectual laziness when your response to the arguments in my post is to compare me with the Chinese government because I used the word “productive”, and to imply that I would tease a disabled person. Is that sort of petty name-calling really all you’ve got?

As for the supposedly lazy tactic of citing the case of Deb Foskey, the fact that I used the most obvious and well-known example of a high-income person living in public housing to illustrate my point doesn’t invalidate that point – namely, that “some public housing tenants [are] rorting the system”. The fact is that some people are. Feel free to disprove that.

poetix said :

People lucky enough to have their own housing and good jobs should understand that it is largely a matter of luck.

This is the refrain of someone who has been beaten fair and square in the economic game of life and doesn’t want to admit that it was due to his or her own poor decisions, ineptitude, or lack of application. As someone else said, we live in a land of opportunity. It is full of people who came here with absolutely nothing and became wealthy through their own persistence and diligence.

If you want to reply, I’d appreciate it if you’d use some sensible arguments rather than quoting John Steinbeck. Thanks.

Classified3:08 pm 10 Nov 11

poetix said :

People lucky enough to have their own housing and good jobs should understand that it is largely a matter of luck.

It’s only lucky in that you live in a country that has ample education and career opportunities. Actually getting yourself into a position where you have a good job and your own housing is called work.

Deref2:10 pm 10 Nov 11

devils_advocate said :

poetix said :

People lucky enough to have their own housing and good jobs should understand that it is largely a matter of luck.

Well, no. The beauty of the system we live in is that, through a combination of government-subsidised loans and means-tested income support, it really doesn’t matter what social background you come from, you can pretty much achieve as much or as little as you like. I incurred debts of more than $100 000 over the course of my undergrad and grad studies and paid it all back, and was grateful for the opportunity. And grateful that anyone else can do the same. In so far as that system exists – to give everyone an opportunity but not a handout – then yes we’re lucky. Having taken the opportunity is, however, not a matter of luck, it’s purely hard work.

I think everyone here thinks there should be some baseline of existence provide by the government, including through direct provision of housing, the question is where to draw the line. I draw the line at brand new architecturally designed apartments on prime real estate in the middle of the city.

Sure recipients have to be nears services and transport, but that can happen in the outer belconnen west or south canberra.

Not bad. Not bad at all.

chewy141:42 pm 10 Nov 11

poetix said :

2604 said :

Stevian said :

How is it unfair? The system exists you can utilize/rort it too. Any claim of a moral high ground that your a better person than “them” is just an excuse. You’re weak.

It’s unfair because people like devil’s_advocate work hard their whole lives and then get their money expropriated by the government and spent on people who have worked nowhere near as hard. Why should the fruits of d_a’s labour go to someone else, who has done nothing to earn them? As much as folks like yourself want to believe the opposite, it is not the role of government to boost the standard of living of low-income earners to a level commensurate with more productive members of society.

Are some public housing tenants in that position because of bad luck? Yes.
Are many there because of bad decisions on education, career, relationships, drugs, as well as laziness and incompetence? Yes
Are some public housing tenants rorting the system, Deb Foskey style? Yes
Why should the second and third groups receive taxpayer-funded benefits? They shouldn’t.

As for a rort being okay because it’s available for everyone to take advantage of, that is possibly the weakest and least moral argument ever. Kind of like saying that if someone steals an unlocked car, no-one who walked past and didn’t steal the car can find fault with the theft.

God help those in society who are ‘unproductive’. That sort of language is probably still used in the Peoples Republic of China, well known for its respect for the individual. ‘They’ (meaning the poor) deserve housing because ‘they’ need it. And because of that, it should be decent housing, preferably near to shops and facilities. People lucky enough to have their own housing and good jobs should understand that it is largely a matter of luck. The ability to work hard, often in an interesting and/or well-paid job is something to be grateful for, not something to make you think you are better than others. Dragging in the obvious exceptions, such as the politician who was in a Housing Trust house for a while, is intellectually lazy.

Assuming that everyone who is in public housing is one of the “poor” or “disadvantaged” is just as intellecually lazy.
Saying that in our system the ability to get a job that enables you to rent privately is largely due to luck is just downright wrong.

devils_advocate1:27 pm 10 Nov 11

poetix said :

People lucky enough to have their own housing and good jobs should understand that it is largely a matter of luck.

Well, no. The beauty of the system we live in is that, through a combination of government-subsidised loans and means-tested income support, it really doesn’t matter what social background you come from, you can pretty much achieve as much or as little as you like. I incurred debts of more than $100 000 over the course of my undergrad and grad studies and paid it all back, and was grateful for the opportunity. And grateful that anyone else can do the same. In so far as that system exists – to give everyone an opportunity but not a handout – then yes we’re lucky. Having taken the opportunity is, however, not a matter of luck, it’s purely hard work.

I think everyone here thinks there should be some baseline of existence provide by the government, including through direct provision of housing, the question is where to draw the line. I draw the line at brand new architecturally designed apartments on prime real estate in the middle of the city.

Sure recipients have to be nears services and transport, but that can happen in the outer belconnen west or south canberra.

busgirl1:23 pm 10 Nov 11

Beggars can’t be choosers. It’s simply really.

Genie12:40 pm 10 Nov 11

Genie said :

dbee said :

How can so many people over look the fact that most of the people living in those flats have been given a tenancy there because they had no other choice?
Housing isn’t just for “junkies”- its for people who need help. For people who need government assistance.

If public housing is for people who need help, then why is my domestically abused now single mother still on the emergency housing list 3 years later? While the mentally deranged person lives down the street from me in a 3 bedroom govie house JUST because he’s been there for over a decade.

Which is why more public housing needs to be made available.

After all, this government has no problems spending $430 million on a building for themselves.

I don’t think MORE public housing is the answer.
Personally they need to spend some money assessing EVERY single person/family occupying public housing and start moving people !
Who cares if they have been living in that house for years, of they are living alone and have more than one bedroom – relocate them into something smaller.
No longer on centrelink and can afford to rent privately.. See ya later ! (don’t care how heartless I sound, I know of people living in Govie houses who could easily afford to rent privately or pay off a mortgage)
Finally.. If they are someone who keeps trashing the Govie houses. Sorry GTFO ! Why should the tax payers support you to continually destroy government property and pay for the repairs. If anything send them to jail. I’d rather my tax money support that so a more deserving and respectful tennant can move in. After all isn’t destroying government property illegal ?

chewy1412:38 pm 10 Nov 11

bryansworld said :

Spoken as a member of the middle class that is depressed about the whingeing sense of entitlement that now plagues affluent Australia.

Whinging about people not being able to live in expensive government provided housing in the middle of the city, now there’s a sense of entitlement.

poetix12:32 pm 10 Nov 11

2604 said :

Stevian said :

How is it unfair? The system exists you can utilize/rort it too. Any claim of a moral high ground that your a better person than “them” is just an excuse. You’re weak.

It’s unfair because people like devil’s_advocate work hard their whole lives and then get their money expropriated by the government and spent on people who have worked nowhere near as hard. Why should the fruits of d_a’s labour go to someone else, who has done nothing to earn them? As much as folks like yourself want to believe the opposite, it is not the role of government to boost the standard of living of low-income earners to a level commensurate with more productive members of society.

Are some public housing tenants in that position because of bad luck? Yes.
Are many there because of bad decisions on education, career, relationships, drugs, as well as laziness and incompetence? Yes
Are some public housing tenants rorting the system, Deb Foskey style? Yes
Why should the second and third groups receive taxpayer-funded benefits? They shouldn’t.

As for a rort being okay because it’s available for everyone to take advantage of, that is possibly the weakest and least moral argument ever. Kind of like saying that if someone steals an unlocked car, no-one who walked past and didn’t steal the car can find fault with the theft.

God help those in society who are ‘unproductive’. That sort of language is probably still used in the Peoples Republic of China, well known for its respect for the individual. ‘They’ (meaning the poor) deserve housing because ‘they’ need it. And because of that, it should be decent housing, preferably near to shops and facilities. People lucky enough to have their own housing and good jobs should understand that it is largely a matter of luck. The ability to work hard, often in an interesting and/or well-paid job is something to be grateful for, not something to make you think you are better than others. Dragging in the obvious exceptions, such as the politician who was in a Housing Trust house for a while, is intellectually lazy.

Just today I saw a group of public servants, perhaps at the lofty height of ASO 5s (!), laughing at an obviously disabled man who was wearing a makeshift raincoat to protect himself from the rain. (And yes, I was driving my nice warm car into the city as I watched this lovely bit of theatre.) Those who begrudge people good public housing are morally on the same level as that group of insignificant, cruel, self-regarding pricks.

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