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Greens seek to end police pursuits [With poll]

By johnboy - 20 July 2011 81

car crash

The Greens have announced the release of a discussion paper on police car chases.

“Police car chases are the deadliest part of police operations. We think they should be used cautiously and only for serious violent crimes where public safety demands the offender be immediately apprehended.” Shane Rattenbury said.

“The ACT has seen seven people die since 2004 on our roads in connection with police car chases, most of them related to stolen cars. That’s an average of one person per year which makes it a serious issue that warrants discussion.

Police pursuits

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UPDATE: Shane Rattenbury has put out another media release to complain that Zed Seselja and Simon Corbell are wrong in opposing his proposals:

ACT Greens Police spokesperson, Shane Rattenbury MLA, has expressed disappointment at the knee jerk reaction from the ALP and Canberra Liberals on police pursuits and frustration at their lack of commitment to evidence based policy.

The ACT Attorney General and the leader of the Canberra Liberals made factual errors in their comments this morning and contradicted evidence from AFP reviews.

“For our political leaders to go on air uninformed and make misleading statements on such an important topic is deeply disappointing,” Mr Rattenbury said.

“Their comments this morning ignored and contradicted two important pieces of evidence.

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81 Responses to
Greens seek to end police pursuits [With poll]
dvaey 11:18 am 20 Jul 11

qbngeek said :

So the figure of seven people in seven years that have died in connection to police pursuits, does that include the four that died in Mullypocalypse. I would much rather see how many fatal accidents there were in that period due to police pursuits as opposed to how many died. That would mean Mullypocalypse counts as one and we are already down to four in seven years.

We do need the numbers to make an informed opinion on this matter. How many pursuits were there, how many ended in a) driver pulling over, b) driver getting away or c) driver having an accident. Unless you can achieve a higher percentage of (a), youre fighting a losing battle. While 7 fatal high speed pursuits might sound high or low to some people, that depends on the context.. were there 10 pursuits in that time or 1000? Of those 10 or 1000, if 7 were fatal, what was the outcome of the others? Would changing the laws help change any outcomes.

One of the problems that did come out of the mully incident, was that the police keep their pursuit policies tightly under wraps, even to the point that the police actively sought to protect having to disclose their pursuit policies in open court. If we as the community dont even know what rules the police are following, how are we meant to have an informed opinion on the matter?

shirty_bear 11:14 am 20 Jul 11

The Mullypocalypse clearly skews the numbers. But all this is meaningless without the stats on police chases that *don’t* end in fatalities.

The Frots 11:11 am 20 Jul 11

Captain RAAF said :

The Frots said :

Go the Greens……………………………………..finger on the pulse as always!

They won’t be around for much longer, let em’ go out with a bang I say!

Happiness is a warm gun, brother!

Snave81 11:06 am 20 Jul 11

The Greens’ proposal raises a few questions for me:

• Are they proposing that their policy also be adopted in NSW so there couldn’t be any cross border pursuits from say Queanbeyan and along Canberra Ave before coming to a sudden stop?
• Would offenders from NSW simply have to drive into the ACT to escape their crimes?
• Couldn’t someone driving erratically and a speed be a sign that they are fleeing from a major crime that is yet to be reported? I would’ve thought that it would be better for the police to try and stop the offender then rather than just hopefully tracking them down after the event.

p1 10:58 am 20 Jul 11

The police should not have to chase, they should just call in an airstrike, and the cobra gunships with eliminate the problem with laser guided missiles.

KaptnKaos 10:42 am 20 Jul 11

Can we put an end to the greens….. pleeeeeeease. Anyway there won’t be any car chases according to the greens, because none of us will have cars if they have their way, we will all be riding our treddlies from tuggeranong to civic or gungers to civic to work – with a drop off at school for the kiddies first. Oh wait no, can’t have treddlies either because – treddlie chases – have ban them too.

zippyzippy 10:27 am 20 Jul 11

qbngeek said :

So the figure of seven people in seven years that have died in connection to police pursuits, does that include the four that died in Mullypocalypse. I would much rather see how many fatal accidents there were in that period due to police pursuits as opposed to how many died. That would mean Mullypocalypse counts as one and we are already down to four in seven years.

Also, Shane, how many of those that died were the offender?? I am not so upset if a toolbag that runs from the cops then dies in an accident wthout taking out anyone else. I only get upset when they take out innocent people.

qbngeek said :

So the figure of seven people in seven years that have died in connection to police pursuits, does that include the four that died in Mullypocalypse. I would much rather see how many fatal accidents there were in that period due to police pursuits as opposed to how many died. That would mean Mullypocalypse counts as one and we are already down to four in seven years.

Also, Shane, how many of those that died were the offender?? I am not so upset if a toolbag that runs from the cops then dies in an accident wthout taking out anyone else. I only get upset when they take out innocent people.

Looking at the paper, it seems that 1 of the 7 was Justin williams. Other 6 were innocent bystanders.

Classified 10:26 am 20 Jul 11

dvaey said :

2.0 said :

Awesome, so now I just need to remove my rear plate, and when Mr Plod tries to pull me over I can just accelerate away. Winning!!

Which would be great, if Mr Plod didnt have a radio and could call on a dozen other cars in the area to possibly block your way.

I think the point is that youre probably going to accelerate away at a stupid speed anyway (obviously not the brightest of sparks if you run from police in first place). At least if the police terminate the chase, the idiot drivers will only be rushing to get away for a few seconds (instead of potentially half an hour) at excess speed.

Once the police then find the vehicle (some interesting ideas were suggested after mullypocalypse, such as some sort of adhesive GPS tracker that can be fired at the vehicle being chased), with modern technology and forensics, it should be easy enough to identify the offenders.

While I agree with you in thoery, in practice I don’t think the police have the capability on the ground in Canberra to achieve this. There just aren’t enough police cars. Even if they scrambled three cars as soon as a potential chase started, it can still take 10 minutes or more to converge on the area (even under lights at high speed), at which point the suspect is long gone.

Announcing that police chases will never happen simply alerts car thieves and other idiots that they can get away by pressing the loud pedal.

Mr Gillespie 10:26 am 20 Jul 11

I am SICK AND TIRED of the Greenie brigade. What do they want? Don’t they know what the police are for? The police are there to CATCH CRIMINALS! and they want them to stop chasing criminals???

qbngeek 10:22 am 20 Jul 11

So the figure of seven people in seven years that have died in connection to police pursuits, does that include the four that died in Mullypocalypse. I would much rather see how many fatal accidents there were in that period due to police pursuits as opposed to how many died. That would mean Mullypocalypse counts as one and we are already down to four in seven years.

Also, Shane, how many of those that died were the offender?? I am not so upset if a toolbag that runs from the cops then dies in an accident wthout taking out anyone else. I only get upset when they take out innocent people.

zippyzippy 10:21 am 20 Jul 11

Take a look at the paper. Plenty of evidence in there that police chases are both ineffective and very dangerous tom the community. Why would you want dangerous high speed chases screaming though our neighborhoods? People die.

dvaey 10:19 am 20 Jul 11

2.0 said :

Awesome, so now I just need to remove my rear plate, and when Mr Plod tries to pull me over I can just accelerate away. Winning!!

Which would be great, if Mr Plod didnt have a radio and could call on a dozen other cars in the area to possibly block your way.

I think the point is that youre probably going to accelerate away at a stupid speed anyway (obviously not the brightest of sparks if you run from police in first place). At least if the police terminate the chase, the idiot drivers will only be rushing to get away for a few seconds (instead of potentially half an hour) at excess speed.

Once the police then find the vehicle (some interesting ideas were suggested after mullypocalypse, such as some sort of adhesive GPS tracker that can be fired at the vehicle being chased), with modern technology and forensics, it should be easy enough to identify the offenders.

Captain RAAF 10:08 am 20 Jul 11

The Frots said :

Go the Greens……………………………………..finger on the pulse as always!

They won’t be around for much longer, let em’ go out with a bang I say!

2.0 10:08 am 20 Jul 11

Awesome, so now I just need to remove my rear plate, and when Mr Plod tries to pull me over I can just accelerate away. Winning!!

The Frots 10:03 am 20 Jul 11

Go the Greens……………………………………..finger on the pulse as always!

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