Gungahlin traffic woes

Xtra 19 April 2016 91

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Is anyone else finding the daily commute out of Gungahlin difficult?

My concerns are, as the population of the district increases the amount of traffic on the roads will only increase. Horse Park Dr, parts of Flemington Rd are single lane – not sufficient for the morning volumes of traffic.  Compared to Tuggeranong and Belconnen, Gungahlin does not seem to have a road network capable of dispersing traffic at peak times.

What measures will be put in place when the light rail gets underway? Flemington Road is likely to be further constrained for quite some time – has anyone in government considered measures for dealing with the light rail and traffic leaving Gungahlin?


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Maya123 Maya123 12:27 pm 27 Mar 15

BlowMeDown said :

rosscoact said :

nemesisrocks said :

There’s a pretty easy solution to all your problems.

Don’t live in Gungahlin.

I live in the city, and walk to work. 12 minute “commute”, which includes stopping by a cafe on the way for my morning brew. I’ll never understand people who buy McMansions in the middle of nowhere, only to waste two hours a day of their lives sitting in a car, and then complain when everyone else who did the same thing is stuck beside them in traffic.

My commute is the 10 seconds it takes me to walk downstairs but I don’t post that in a thread about roads because it would be fatuous.

That’s not fatuous. Working from home is where most of us should be, with a first-class NBN anyone who works in a cubical now need not be commuting at all. The current Federal Government can’t see that the cost of a first-class NBN comes from the money saved on extra road lanes and their endless upkeep, money saved on child-care centres, parental leave schemes, disability care of cyclists who insisted on playing in the traffic, etc.

When Flex-time was introduced to the Public Service 40 years ago it was in large part to ease the peak-hour problem. Back then it was roads like Adelaide Avenue between Woden and City that were the bottlenecks, long before the infamous Richard Carlton 60 minutes Canberra-bash showing an Adelaide Avenue with 6 all-but-empty lanes.

I grew up in a family where my father opened a door in the front of the house and walked into the work office. He stepped back through the door for lunch. Our cat shared its time between the family and the office staff.
My first job was across the street from home.

Maya123 Maya123 12:19 pm 27 Mar 15

vintage123 said :

I certainly wouldn’t choose to house my family in a street of drug dealers and theives. It would be highly irresponsible and unsafe, especially for young children and my wife. I also don’t agree that people move to gungahlin to live in ultra modern McMansions. It’s more likely that those who live in the north were unable to afford living any closer to the centre. Additionally it is logistically important to live in an area that has services such as childcare and schooling, and an area that allows access to facilities such as grocery shops and convenience stores. In this day and age people tend to move from their place of employment more often and if this occurs it is not viable to sell the home, pull the kids from school and move 20km to the other side of canberra. The reality is that with a family and two working parents more often than not it will involve some more of commute and in the ACT this normally involves a commute either to the city, through the city or from North to South or East to west or vice versa. I guess all we are asking for is an efficient way to achieve this commute whether it be by bus, car, tram or push bike. There is nothing worse than being stuck in traffic nowing that for every minute late to childcare you are going to be charged six dollars.

Similar arguments that were given to me when I moved to (lower) Narrabundah. The people who gave them are likely mostly still living in the outer suburbs and complaining about the commute, while I am now living in an area which has improved. You are being condescending to your wife expressing it that way. She is an adult, not a child. I am female by the way (as you should have been able to tell from the name) and never had a problem living there. There were more females living in my street than males, so other females didn’t appear to have a problem living here either. There was a childcare centre within walking distance and several schools. The drug dealers never worried us. The burglars were a bigger problem and a number of houses in my street were robbed; some more than once. I was fortunate that I wasn’t, but then my house was one of the oldest and the burglars appeared more attracted to the newer houses. Plus the design of the windows on the older houses made breaking in a bit harder than the windows on the newer houses at the time. The burglaries in the area went down for a time (Griffith’s went up) when the burglars had a visit from some locals and were warned to leave Narrabundah alone. This is all past history now.

Maya123 Maya123 12:02 pm 27 Mar 15

dungfungus said :

Postalgeek said :

wildturkeycanoe said :

Unfortunately, in time you will see the traffic woes creep from our roadways to our cycleways. The Commonwealth and Kings Avenue bridges are getting more and more choked up with cyclists, runners and sight-seers. The more people give up on driving their cars, the more they will clog up the transport routes that are available. Buses will be full and”path rage” will become a term familiar to the five o’clock news broadcasters.

Should that shift occur I guess a road lane would be allocated to cycles and ebikes 🙂

And cyclists don’t even pay the annual $16.60 Road Rescue Fee that car owners have to pay but cyclists are using the ambulance services a lot more that motorists are.

Most adult cyclists do pay this, as they also own cars, as I’m sure you know. But just because they own a car doesn’t mean it has to be driven everywhere, and so the roads have less wear and tear.

BlowMeDown BlowMeDown 12:00 pm 27 Mar 15

rosscoact said :

nemesisrocks said :

There’s a pretty easy solution to all your problems.

Don’t live in Gungahlin.

I live in the city, and walk to work. 12 minute “commute”, which includes stopping by a cafe on the way for my morning brew. I’ll never understand people who buy McMansions in the middle of nowhere, only to waste two hours a day of their lives sitting in a car, and then complain when everyone else who did the same thing is stuck beside them in traffic.

My commute is the 10 seconds it takes me to walk downstairs but I don’t post that in a thread about roads because it would be fatuous.

That’s not fatuous. Working from home is where most of us should be, with a first-class NBN anyone who works in a cubical now need not be commuting at all. The current Federal Government can’t see that the cost of a first-class NBN comes from the money saved on extra road lanes and their endless upkeep, money saved on child-care centres, parental leave schemes, disability care of cyclists who insisted on playing in the traffic, etc.

When Flex-time was introduced to the Public Service 40 years ago it was in large part to ease the peak-hour problem. Back then it was roads like Adelaide Avenue between Woden and City that were the bottlenecks, long before the infamous Richard Carlton 60 minutes Canberra-bash showing an Adelaide Avenue with 6 all-but-empty lanes.

Maya123 Maya123 12:00 pm 27 Mar 15

Maya123 said :

wildturkeycanoe said :

Maya123 said :

nemesisrocks said :

There’s a pretty easy solution to all your problems.

Don’t live in Gungahlin.

If being stuck in long lines of traffic, the slow drive to work and the bad public transport is something you are likely to complain about, DON’T buy in the outer suburbs. Lower your expectations for what you want in a house and live closer to work.

Maya123, there is a reason first home buyers don’t buy in Narrabundah or anywhere close to the city. It is approximately $300,000+. That’s the difference in price between a 3 bedroom house in the burbs and one in the old leaf-lined streets of central Canberra. If money grew on trees then yes your idea would be viable but availability is also another factor. There are only six 3 bedroom houses for sale presently in your neighborhood as opposed to sixteen in a selected western Belconnen suburb. Sure, apartments might be an alternative but priced accordingly at 3x what a bedroom is worth on the outskirts too.
If you want the land next door to your house developed into a multistory dwelling, preventing the morning sunshine from illuminating your backyard sanctuary and housing twenty noisy families whose children run around on the street because there is no yard to play in, then that is the kind of change you are suggesting. The A.C.T government wants to do this too, bring medium to high density housing to our inner city areas to bring people closer to work. Unfortunately, in time you will see the traffic woes creep from our roadways to our cycleways. The Commonwealth and Kings Avenue bridges are getting more and more choked up with cyclists, runners and sight-seers. The more people give up on driving their cars, the more they will clog up the transport routes that are available. Buses will be full and”path rage” will become a term familiar to the five o’clock news broadcasters.
If you think getting everyone onto bikes and walking is the answer, try cycling in Beijing. I have never been more scared of riding a bike as I did there. So many people on so narrow a pathway, handlebars inches from clipping one another….
Anyway, I’ve finished my coffee now so better wrap this up. For $300,000 less most people will put up with the traffic, enjoy their spacious backyard, en-suite, energy efficiency and the security of knowing their plumbing won’t need tearing up and replacing in the next few decades.

The house I bought in Narrabundah was the cheapest on the market in the whole of Canberra at that time. The new houses in the outer suburbs were more expensive. As for plumbing, yes I did replace the underground water pipe running from the metre to the house (after living in the house for some years). But I imagine that was a cheaper job than the wall that had to be pulled down in the new house next door to replace the leaking pipe in that. Even new houses can have shoddy work. Houses in Narrabundah are are not necessarily more expensive than houses in the outer suburbs even today. You sound just like the people who couldn’t imagine living without an ensuite in my day and wouldn’t dream of buying a house like the example below in Narrabundah. Yes, it’s small, but there was a family of five living before me in it. There was three of us. The most expensive winter electricity bill I had was about $600. Is your bill any less?
http://www.allhomes.com.au/ah/act/sale-residential/10-euroka-street-narrabundah-canberra/1316949303111

My house had three bedrooms; not two as in the example.

Maya123 Maya123 11:58 am 27 Mar 15

wildturkeycanoe said :

Maya123 said :

nemesisrocks said :

There’s a pretty easy solution to all your problems.

Don’t live in Gungahlin.

If being stuck in long lines of traffic, the slow drive to work and the bad public transport is something you are likely to complain about, DON’T buy in the outer suburbs. Lower your expectations for what you want in a house and live closer to work.

Maya123, there is a reason first home buyers don’t buy in Narrabundah or anywhere close to the city. It is approximately $300,000+. That’s the difference in price between a 3 bedroom house in the burbs and one in the old leaf-lined streets of central Canberra. If money grew on trees then yes your idea would be viable but availability is also another factor. There are only six 3 bedroom houses for sale presently in your neighborhood as opposed to sixteen in a selected western Belconnen suburb. Sure, apartments might be an alternative but priced accordingly at 3x what a bedroom is worth on the outskirts too.
If you want the land next door to your house developed into a multistory dwelling, preventing the morning sunshine from illuminating your backyard sanctuary and housing twenty noisy families whose children run around on the street because there is no yard to play in, then that is the kind of change you are suggesting. The A.C.T government wants to do this too, bring medium to high density housing to our inner city areas to bring people closer to work. Unfortunately, in time you will see the traffic woes creep from our roadways to our cycleways. The Commonwealth and Kings Avenue bridges are getting more and more choked up with cyclists, runners and sight-seers. The more people give up on driving their cars, the more they will clog up the transport routes that are available. Buses will be full and”path rage” will become a term familiar to the five o’clock news broadcasters.
If you think getting everyone onto bikes and walking is the answer, try cycling in Beijing. I have never been more scared of riding a bike as I did there. So many people on so narrow a pathway, handlebars inches from clipping one another….
Anyway, I’ve finished my coffee now so better wrap this up. For $300,000 less most people will put up with the traffic, enjoy their spacious backyard, en-suite, energy efficiency and the security of knowing their plumbing won’t need tearing up and replacing in the next few decades.

The house I bought in Narrabundah was the cheapest on the market in the whole of Canberra at that time. The new houses in the outer suburbs were more expensive. As for plumbing, yes I did replace the underground water pipe running from the metre to the house (after living in the house for some years). But I imagine that was a cheaper job than the wall that had to be pulled down in the new house next door to replace the leaking pipe in that. Even new houses can have shoddy work. Houses in Narrabundah are are not necessarily more expensive than houses in the outer suburbs even today. You sound just like the people who couldn’t imagine living without an ensuite in my day and wouldn’t dream of buying a house like the example below in Narrabundah. Yes, it’s small, but there was a family of five living before me in it. There was three of us. The most expensive winter electricity bill I had was about $600. Is your bill any less?
http://www.allhomes.com.au/ah/act/sale-residential/10-euroka-street-narrabundah-canberra/1316949303111

Felix the Cat Felix the Cat 11:40 am 27 Mar 15

ChrisinTurner said :

There is no work for people living in Gungahlin because their office space was built at the airport. Now they are constucting a very expensive freeway to connect the workers with their offices. Great planning.

Majura Parkway is not only for Brindabella Park office workers, it is also for people wanting to get to the airport and also Fyshwick, Queanbeyan and even Tuggeranong. And also for people from those areas wanting to travel to Gungahlin or Belconnen. It’s also freight corridor with heaps of trucks using that road every day. It will be much safer now with the dual carriageway

chewy14 chewy14 11:37 am 27 Mar 15

JC said :

bd84 said :

The ACT Government has stuck their fingers in their ears and gone ‘lalala’ about traffic problems in Gungahlin for years. Absolutely no forward planning of traffic as they have developed new suburbs and they keep adding more. This now means that all major roads in Gungahlin operate beyond their capacity with the Government sitting on plans ‘waiting budget funding’ when they could have funded and built the infrastructure years ago. The new Majura Parkway will essentially create a funnel into Horse Park Dr, as with all the other one lane roads in Gungahlin.

The irony. The ACT Government has done the roads in Molonglo with the future in mind and Elf above is asking how they justify it.

Now some credit (minor) where due though, at least the newest part of Horse Park Drive has been built with the intersections into Moncrief done so that if the road is duplicated the intersections won’t need to be redone. Unlike the section from Amaroo to the Federal Highway, which was/is very hodge potch.

How can you possibly say they’ve built the roads in Molonglo looking to the future?

There is one main four land (two each way) road that’s been partially constructed down to near Coppins Crossing. It looks good now because people are still moving in to the early suburbs, just like Gungahlin roads looked all sweet fifteen years ago.

You’ll note that there isn’t even one new bridge crossing of the Molonglo river yet (in the future they’ll probably need two, north and east) and Cotter road has been a construction site and virtual parking lot for years. The duplication of Cotter road from the Parkway still isn’t done.

dungfungus dungfungus 11:12 am 27 Mar 15

Postalgeek said :

wildturkeycanoe said :

Unfortunately, in time you will see the traffic woes creep from our roadways to our cycleways. The Commonwealth and Kings Avenue bridges are getting more and more choked up with cyclists, runners and sight-seers. The more people give up on driving their cars, the more they will clog up the transport routes that are available. Buses will be full and”path rage” will become a term familiar to the five o’clock news broadcasters.

Should that shift occur I guess a road lane would be allocated to cycles and ebikes 🙂

And cyclists don’t even pay the annual $16.60 Road Rescue Fee that car owners have to pay but cyclists are using the ambulance services a lot more that motorists are.

JC JC 11:05 am 27 Mar 15

switch said :

JC said :

The irony. The ACT Government has done the roads in Molonglo with the future in mind and Elf above is asking how they justify it.

Where’s the tram reservation?

I asked the same question above too.

switch switch 11:01 am 27 Mar 15

JC said :

The irony. The ACT Government has done the roads in Molonglo with the future in mind and Elf above is asking how they justify it.

Where’s the tram reservation?

rigseismic67 rigseismic67 10:56 am 27 Mar 15

Roughly 13% of Canberrans live in Gungahlin (2011).
which equates to a likely scenario where over 80% of future public servants working in Gungahlin will not live in the local area and will need to commute to and from the area.
Its going to be good for the local businesses but terrible for the locals with parking and traffic woes. Good luck with the commuting hassles its only going to get worse.

JC JC 10:53 am 27 Mar 15

bd84 said :

The ACT Government has stuck their fingers in their ears and gone ‘lalala’ about traffic problems in Gungahlin for years. Absolutely no forward planning of traffic as they have developed new suburbs and they keep adding more. This now means that all major roads in Gungahlin operate beyond their capacity with the Government sitting on plans ‘waiting budget funding’ when they could have funded and built the infrastructure years ago. The new Majura Parkway will essentially create a funnel into Horse Park Dr, as with all the other one lane roads in Gungahlin.

The irony. The ACT Government has done the roads in Molonglo with the future in mind and Elf above is asking how they justify it.

Now some credit (minor) where due though, at least the newest part of Horse Park Drive has been built with the intersections into Moncrief done so that if the road is duplicated the intersections won’t need to be redone. Unlike the section from Amaroo to the Federal Highway, which was/is very hodge potch.

Postalgeek Postalgeek 10:17 am 27 Mar 15

wildturkeycanoe said :

Unfortunately, in time you will see the traffic woes creep from our roadways to our cycleways. The Commonwealth and Kings Avenue bridges are getting more and more choked up with cyclists, runners and sight-seers. The more people give up on driving their cars, the more they will clog up the transport routes that are available. Buses will be full and”path rage” will become a term familiar to the five o’clock news broadcasters.

Should that shift occur I guess a road lane would be allocated to cycles and ebikes 🙂

switch switch 9:29 am 27 Mar 15

merlin bodega said :

The problem is a bad public transport system that forces people into their cars. It is unreliable, inefficient, expensive and slow.

Trams will fix all that.

merlin bodega merlin bodega 8:42 am 27 Mar 15

Since I first moved to Gungahlin in 1998, the traffic problems have become steadily worse, all due to the strategic approach of having no exit from the town that does not involve at least one single lane patch of road. I abandoned the bus that was taking up to 50 minutes to travel from Palmerston to Civic even though I didn’t like driving for many reasons. For example, a route that has 21 bus stops between Palmerston and Civic doesn’t work and should go down the Gungahlin Drive route to Civic rather than Northbourne Ave to elevate passenger numbers and also relieve the significant bus caused congestion problems along Northbourne.

Why is it that no express bus routes from Gungahlin Town Centre go along the expensive Gungahlin Drive and make use of the underutilised bus infrastructure on Belconnen Way (again costing millions of dollars)?

The problem is a bad public transport system that forces people into their cars. It is unreliable, inefficient, expensive and slow.

Tenpoints Tenpoints 8:41 am 27 Mar 15

Wildturkeycanoe, Building a shared path is a hell of a lot cheaper than building a road.
A city that wants to grow needs more transport options than just driving.

wildturkeycanoe wildturkeycanoe 6:03 am 27 Mar 15

Maya123 said :

nemesisrocks said :

There’s a pretty easy solution to all your problems.

Don’t live in Gungahlin.

If being stuck in long lines of traffic, the slow drive to work and the bad public transport is something you are likely to complain about, DON’T buy in the outer suburbs. Lower your expectations for what you want in a house and live closer to work.

Maya123, there is a reason first home buyers don’t buy in Narrabundah or anywhere close to the city. It is approximately $300,000+. That’s the difference in price between a 3 bedroom house in the burbs and one in the old leaf-lined streets of central Canberra. If money grew on trees then yes your idea would be viable but availability is also another factor. There are only six 3 bedroom houses for sale presently in your neighborhood as opposed to sixteen in a selected western Belconnen suburb. Sure, apartments might be an alternative but priced accordingly at 3x what a bedroom is worth on the outskirts too.
If you want the land next door to your house developed into a multistory dwelling, preventing the morning sunshine from illuminating your backyard sanctuary and housing twenty noisy families whose children run around on the street because there is no yard to play in, then that is the kind of change you are suggesting. The A.C.T government wants to do this too, bring medium to high density housing to our inner city areas to bring people closer to work. Unfortunately, in time you will see the traffic woes creep from our roadways to our cycleways. The Commonwealth and Kings Avenue bridges are getting more and more choked up with cyclists, runners and sight-seers. The more people give up on driving their cars, the more they will clog up the transport routes that are available. Buses will be full and”path rage” will become a term familiar to the five o’clock news broadcasters.
If you think getting everyone onto bikes and walking is the answer, try cycling in Beijing. I have never been more scared of riding a bike as I did there. So many people on so narrow a pathway, handlebars inches from clipping one another….
Anyway, I’ve finished my coffee now so better wrap this up. For $300,000 less most people will put up with the traffic, enjoy their spacious backyard, en-suite, energy efficiency and the security of knowing their plumbing won’t need tearing up and replacing in the next few decades.

bd84 bd84 11:16 pm 26 Mar 15

The ACT Government has stuck their fingers in their ears and gone ‘lalala’ about traffic problems in Gungahlin for years. Absolutely no forward planning of traffic as they have developed new suburbs and they keep adding more. This now means that all major roads in Gungahlin operate beyond their capacity with the Government sitting on plans ‘waiting budget funding’ when they could have funded and built the infrastructure years ago. The new Majura Parkway will essentially create a funnel into Horse Park Dr, as with all the other one lane roads in Gungahlin.

ricketyclik ricketyclik 10:23 pm 26 Mar 15

So, the problem is getting people from one place to another all at once. Is the solution

a) Build wider roads so that more 2 x 5 m steel boxes can converge on the same places at once and hence move the bottleneck closer to your destination, but with longer waits, and use a whole lot of space at the destination to store those boxes, or

b) Improve mass transit, reducing the amount of space on the road per person, and allow the removal of the steel boxes after the people are in place?

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