23 February 2012

Hardly Normal shutting down in Woden

| johnboy
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Smarthouse has the news that Harvey Norman are closing down their Woden operation after thirty years trading:

Harvey Norman COO John Slack-Smith claims that the decision not to renew the Woden lease after 30 years of trading at Woden was based on “commercial grounds”.

A NSW franchisee said “This is just the start, I think you will see more store closures as leases become due especially in locations where the landlord is not going to take a cut in their lease deal”.

They added “Westfield has several organisations wanting to get into their shopping malls so they are not going to take a bath on a lease just because Harvey Norman is performing poorly. Where Harvey Norman is a key tenant the situation could be different”.

Further comments by Slack-Smith suggest they’re looking for another southside location. Plenty of room in the Hyperdome?

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Peewee Slasher2:36 pm 28 Feb 12

Well … if there are zombies and monsters there, I’m staying way.
Oh, would would win in a battle?

Retailers need to move with the times and work with technology, not try to fight it.

I remember seeing a story a little while ago about retail stores in large Asian cities that allow and encourage you to go in and try before you buy but then go home and order online. They offer a membership card or something similar so they have your details and buying preferences on file. They can upload the details of the items you have tried and liked, either onto the card or onto your online account with them, so when you go home, you can decide exactly what you want to buy, order it online and have it delivered. Saves having to carry all your purchases around with you while you’re out shopping or if you were shopping in your lunch hour or on your way out somewhere else, again you don’t have to lug your purchases around. Especially useful if you use public transport too (which is more then likely in large Asian cities).

So it’s all about convenience and service and using technology to your advantage. Now imagine of HN embraced this style of business. Does anyone know of any retailer in Aus using this yet?

When I had to move house some time ago, I needed to buy a fair few appliances. After having a look around, I found HN Fyshwick to be the best place on both price and service for the majority of what I was looking for.

This was mostly down to a young bloke called Calum, who said he was a science graduate. After asking him some hard questions about energy-efficiency related stuff, he impressed me that he knew what he was talking about, and he even taught me a few things along the way! And he gave me a good deal on what we bought.

Having said that, on a wider scale, I seriously wonder how any large retailer that has to pay rent to landlordfs such as the Westfield group, and then wages/insurance/tax whatever on top can compete with a online retialer selling the same products from a warehouse and delivers to your fornt door.

And how long is it (maybe when all of the existing contracts run out?) until manufacturers of various appliances work out that they would do better establishing their own versions of selling online directly, and do away with retail partners altogether?

I, for one, am not the least bit keen on shopping centres. Park your car under a building that dominates the landscape (I’m talking about you, Westfielld Belconnen!) in a place where there is no responsibility for what happens to your car while it is there (look carefully at the conditions on your next parking tickket, or up on the wall as you drive in). Then walk through lots of other cars and into the start of the scrum.

Eventually find the store you are looking for, only to be served by a teenager who would rather talk to his/her friend on their mobile phone, and find out either that the product is expensive, or that it’s not in stock. Alternatively, if it’s any more complicated than a powerplug, they have no idea what to do, or in fact who could help (after all, that’s your problem, customer, not mine).

Not all stores are like this, of course, nor all teenagers in retial jobs, or, indeed, in general. But I’d often rather just do stuff on-line, because I don’t find the social aspect of shopping the least bit exciting (however, Mrs. Ryoma begs to differ, and often does so, loudly!…hahahaa).

But if I’m in any way typical (and I’m not sure I am, maybe I’m just getting old!), then what will our shopping centres look like in a decade? Women’s fashion stores, a food court (because all that walking around takes energy), and maybe a cinema…is that enough to fill the amount of space available? Or will the floors of empty shops be turned into both office space and/or apartments?

What does everyone think?

c_c said :

The articles report the Fyshwick store is one of the best performing in the country, assumedly second only to those in Western Sydney. That’s not a good sign for the intelligence of Canberrans. If Harvey Norman is making a profit anywhere in Canberra, there’s a lot of suckers taking those add ons.

You got that right. Whenever I want to make a major purchase I always make a quick trip to HN. This tells me what the absolute upper price limit of the item is, and I then go and purchase the same item for less money elsewhere.

Frustrated said :

Domayne is owned by Harvey’s wife isn’t it.

Or for business purposes he stuck ownership in her name.

The “Mrs Domayne” story is part a rewriting of history, and part a convenient way for staff at Domayne and HN to try and make the stores seem more detached than they really are. In reality Domayne was always a part of and owned by Harvey Norman.

Domayne and Harvey Norman, along with Joyce Mayne and more recently Clive Peters all belong to the Derni Group, a subsidiary of Harvey Norman Holdings which is responsible for the franchise operations and inventory. If you look carefully on the freight tags of larger items from these stores, you’ll even see Derni listed on it. And Gift cards for any of the stores are actually Derni Gift Cards, the fine print reveals they’re not actually tied to the brand printed on it.

Harvey’s wife is Katie Page, she started out as a secretary at Harvey Norman Ltd and later married Gerry Harvey.

She has since become CEO of the company. Details of her involvement and Domayne’s history are scant, but it appears that Domayne was a pet project for her within the HN company. Domayne was intended to attracted those who wouldn’t typically shop at Harvey Norman.

She has also being the force behind the expansion of Harvey Norman into Ireland and Slovenia, expansions which the media reports are problematic.

TP 3000 said :

c_c said :

The articles report the Fyshwick store is one of the best performing in the country, assumedly second only to those in Western Sydney. That’s not a good sign for the intelligence of Canberrans.

The Fyshwick store shares the top 2 spots with the Gold Coast store.

Yeah that really says Canberrans aren’t trying hard enough and are been suckers.
In the electrical section, it means they’re falling for add ons.
The favourite being extended warranty which, you guessed it, Harvey Norman owns the warranty company.

In the furniture section, it means they’re not driving a hard enough bargain, I mean most of the stock has well over 70% margin!

Sad to see it close after all this time, but I guess that’s progress! Maybe if Gerry didn’t screw the crap out of all his franchisees, then this kind of thing wouldn’t be happening. Also, as someone else mentioned, Dick Smith and JB HiFi are much better stores for most of the stuff I need.

As to the Tuggeranong Myer, I was speaking to a lady at the Belcompten Myer, and she said she’d be very surprised if Myer moved to Woden at all, as with the downturn in retail sales Myer has already closed 11 stores so she thought it’d be strange that they’d be building a new one in a location that would be in competition with a well established David Jones store. Plus, she was saying that they were told the new store was going to be located separate to the Westfield Woden in its own building.

c_c said :

The articles report the Fyshwick store is one of the best performing in the country, assumedly second only to those in Western Sydney. That’s not a good sign for the intelligence of Canberrans.

The Fyshwick store shares the top 2 spots with the Gold Coast store.

shirty_bear said :

Sure enough, people everywhere. But mostly standing in line at the checkouts, looking glum.

Glum because the lines are LONG. The discounts seem to be good, but there’s a few things that haven’t moved much, further cutting next week may be on the cards.

Went to the games section(!), noted that there were Playstation Vita games there. I asked if they had any of the units, but was told none 🙁

c_c said :

Thoroughly Smashed said :

justjbhere said :

Maybe Doymane could move there and the staff keep their jobs.

I don’t see how another retail store operating the same sales model (and with the same owners, no less!) is going to find any more success.

Domayne is Harvey Norman, they not only have the same parent company but share inventory and admin. Difference is because Domayne is just HN with high prices and confused branding, they do even worse… even with some price fixing between them and HN where located nearby.

Domayne is owned by Harvey’s wife isn’t it. Or for business purposes he stuck ownership in her name.

Thoroughly Smashed said :

justjbhere said :

Maybe Doymane could move there and the staff keep their jobs.

I don’t see how another retail store operating the same sales model (and with the same owners, no less!) is going to find any more success.

Domayne is Harvey Norman, they not only have the same parent company but share inventory and admin. Difference is because Domayne is just HN with high prices and confused branding, they do even worse… even with some price fixing between them and HN where located nearby.

ThrowawayAccount said :

watto23 said :

Robina said :

Myer is moving into Westfield Woden where Big W is currently located. Big W is moving into the Hyperdome to take up part of the space currently occupied by Myer that will be vacant once they leave.

Actually, a new Big W is moving into the Tuggeranong store and Woden Big W isn’t moving.

There is zero chance of Big W closing their store at Woden, it’s one of the best performing stores in Australia. More likely that it will exist in an expanded mall similar to the deal Westfield struck for Belconnen or take over some of the David Jones lease.[/quote

That is what I have been told too.]

Heard whispers of a fire sale out there in order to dump stock … had to go for a sticky.

Sure enough, people everywhere. But mostly standing in line at the checkouts, looking glum.
As far as I could tell, if anything the prices had gone up.

A staff member was pleasant to me though :-\

Tooks said :

justjbhere said :

I am not sure if we are talking about the same Harvey Norman here. I have been a customer of theirs for years, even way back when it was known as Norman Ross. The staff there have always been so helpful and given me great deals too. I actually know some of the staff and they are all devastated. I have saved thousands of dollars. A couple of examples for you. I paid $300 for a $500 vacuum. $800 for a new pc including a 2 year warranty. Mind you, I always pay cash for these. Maybe Doymane could move there and the staff keep their jobs.

Harvey Norman Woden are woeful. Their staff are unhelpful, don’t have good products, and are lazy. My experience at HN in Fyshwick was much better. Better staffed with happy smiling people who were very helpful.

That should read ‘don’t have good product knowledge’.

justjbhere said :

I am not sure if we are talking about the same Harvey Norman here. I have been a customer of theirs for years, even way back when it was known as Norman Ross. The staff there have always been so helpful and given me great deals too. I actually know some of the staff and they are all devastated. I have saved thousands of dollars. A couple of examples for you. I paid $300 for a $500 vacuum. $800 for a new pc including a 2 year warranty. Mind you, I always pay cash for these. Maybe Doymane could move there and the staff keep their jobs.

Harvey Norman Woden are woeful. Their staff are unhelpful, don’t have good products, and are lazy. My experience at HN in Fyshwick was much better. Better staffed with happy smiling people who were very helpful.

The new kid on the block has too many grey hairs now. GH painted himself as a rebel when he first started but hasnt kept up with changing sales techniques. His answer to internet competition is to cry poor and try to get the Govt to back him in making it more expensive to buy. Not likely to win you a whole new customer base.

Recently bought a new dishwasher from a store in Sydney delivered for about $200 less that HN’s “best” price. Even the delivery was better priced. $20 from Sydney or $50 from Canberra. Only defence salesman had was “you pay more to deal with a local”.

Thoroughly Smashed10:34 am 24 Feb 12

justjbhere said :

I am not sure if we are talking about the same Harvey Norman here.

Neither am I. You sound way too positive to have dealt with Harvey Norman.

justjbhere said :

Maybe Doymane could move there and the staff keep their jobs.

I don’t see how another retail store operating the same sales model (and with the same owners, no less!) is going to find any more success.

Holden Caulfield10:32 am 24 Feb 12

Suck it up Gerry!

We are new to Canberra and need some outdoor furniture – but we don’t want wood. We’ve looked all over and haven’t found anything we liked (for the price). We went into the Woden Harvey Norman and found something we liked. We thought a salesperson would come to us, but they didn’t. We had to go find one. The salesman said, “He can help you” and pointed to another salesman. He came over and was rude and unhelpful. We really wanted the set and it was a very good price, but we decided we disliked the jerk salesman more than we liked the set, so we left. We happened to be in Fyshwick a few days later, stopped at the HN there, and immediately a helpful salesman came over, we bought it and it’s delivered. After my experience I would never waste my time in the Woden HN again. And yes, HN is terribly overpriced, but if you get some of the deep-discount sales (plus get some more knocked off), it’s actually quite reasonable.

Harvey Norman is a total ripoff. Expensive, limited range and stock which has been gathering dust for years.

Even during their closing down sale I noticed software and accessories with the same expensive price tags they’ve been carrying for years – no mark downs. Yesterday was the first time I’d been up there in almost two years and I won’t miss it.

allyroger said :

That model of business is finished. Fake prices, fake sales, haggling and sales people on commission has no future.

If there was one bricks and mortar store where i could go and know the price was the cheap and there was no haggling, then i would go. Until then its the internet/ importing/ playing them off against each other which is a big waste of time.

There you go. Whilst I am sure the likes of Westfield and other lessors havent helped at all, I think you have nailed it on the head.

That being said, it is a shame, and Im embarassed to say I and old enough to recall when it wasnt Harvey Norman, it was under another name before it got bought out.

I hope the staff find better employment.

p1 said :

I think using the closure of the store in Woden as some sort of indicator of the overall performance of Hardly Normal’s stores would be a mistake.

That particular store is in a weird little top level of the plaza, which after thirty odd years of expansions is well away from most traffic, and looking pretty sad. On the couple of occasions that I have been in there over the last few years I have been unable to understand how they could possibly be making a profit.

Times are tough!
http://www.theage.com.au/business/three-harvey-norman-stores-placed-in-administration-20111104-1mzvd.html

I always thought badly of the Woden HN and always bought at Fyshwick, but after early last year, I switched over to the Woden store. Reason:

Parents went to Fyshwick mid week for a bed for my DD… $949 (on special), I went on Sat to see which bed… same bed, same special $999 only slightly neg ($20-30) and over 8 week wait (but could only confirm Monday)

Went to Woden, same bed $899, haggled and got it for $800 (all cash) and suprise suprise, 4 week wait after calling the supplier then and there.

Same went for the laptop i’ve got. bought at the 1/2 price sale in May 2011. Fyshwick had crap laptops (first day of sale), Woden had actual deals (my pc was $1300 bought for $650)… I don’t buy much from Fyshwick anymore.

Oh and the guy in Woden that is like a zombie, he was the most helpful of the lot!

Went to Woden, same bed

Woden is Big W’s largest trader. Zero chance of closing down.

ThrowawayAccount said :

watto23 said :

Robina said :

Myer must be moving into that space after closing in Tuggers

Bit small for Myers. I doubt they’ll open another canberra store, if they do it will be northside somewhere, where the population growth is. People always want new stuff for their new house.

I wonder what they could put in that space at woden though? 1 big shop or several smaller shops, might get more traffic through.

Myer is moving into Westfield Woden where Big W is currently located. Big W is moving into the Hyperdome to take up part of the space currently occupied by Myer that will be vacant once they leave.

There is zero chance of Big W closing their store at Woden, it’s one of the best performing stores in Australia. More likely that it will exist in an expanded mall similar to the deal Westfield struck for Belconnen or take over some of the David Jones lease.

Yes Hardly Normal has been in Woden for 30 years.

Very Busy we moved to Burnie Street Lyons back in 1976 and we bought some furniture from Norman Ross so yes it was there 30 years ago.

ThrowawayAccount7:33 pm 23 Feb 12

watto23 said :

Robina said :

Myer must be moving into that space after closing in Tuggers

Bit small for Myers. I doubt they’ll open another canberra store, if they do it will be northside somewhere, where the population growth is. People always want new stuff for their new house.

I wonder what they could put in that space at woden though? 1 big shop or several smaller shops, might get more traffic through.

Myer is moving into Westfield Woden where Big W is currently located. Big W is moving into the Hyperdome to take up part of the space currently occupied by Myer that will be vacant once they leave.

On a slightly different note, after speaking to several of the staff up in HN today, it turns out they were only given notice of the store closing last week, with the doors to shut on 5th March. It’s a bit of poor form on behalf of the franchise owner / management team to give them such short notice..

Can anyone confirm that Harvey Norman really have been there for thirty years. I clearly remember when Norman Ross were there before Harvey Norman and I’m thinking that can’t be 30 years ago.

That model of business is finished. Fake prices, fake sales, haggling and sales people on commission has no future. If there was one bricks and mortar store where i could go and know the price was the cheap and there was no haggling, then i would go. Until then its the internet/ importing/ playing them off against each other which is a big waste of time.

Although I cant stand GH and his HN empire these days, it will be sad to see it go after all these years.

I remember when we first arrived in Canberra, that particular Norman Ross store used to be the place to go for furniture or whitegoods etc.

The Woden expansion, was always going to kill the store eventually. I long for the going back to the days of Woden Plaza.

Bloody overcrowded Canberra these days.

The articles report the Fyshwick store is one of the best performing in the country, assumedly second only to those in Western Sydney. That’s not a good sign for the intelligence of Canberrans. If Harvey Norman is making a profit anywhere in Canberra, there’s a lot of suckers taking those add ons.

I am not sure if we are talking about the same Harvey Norman here. I have been a customer of theirs for years, even way back when it was known as Norman Ross. The staff there have always been so helpful and given me great deals too. I actually know some of the staff and they are all devastated. I have saved thousands of dollars. A couple of examples for you. I paid $300 for a $500 vacuum. $800 for a new pc including a 2 year warranty. Mind you, I always pay cash for these. Maybe Doymane could move there and the staff keep their jobs.

Robina said :

Myer must be moving into that space after closing in Tuggers

Bit small for Myers. I doubt they’ll open another canberra store, if they do it will be northside somewhere, where the population growth is. People always want new stuff for their new house.

I wonder what they could put in that space at woden though? 1 big shop or several smaller shops, might get more traffic through.

regularbrowse4:50 pm 23 Feb 12

Agree with p1.
There never seemed to be many customers in the Harvey Norman store. Too out-of-the-way for most Woden shoppers.
I always tried Dick Smith and JB HI-FI first as they had higher range of goods plus helpful staff.

schmeah said :

Honestly, Hardly Normals never had a chance after the Baby Bonus started being paid in installments rather than the lump sum payments for plasmas .. I mean .. prams.

heh. Yeah, although they can still buy them on teh never-never or whatever fancy name they have for it now. Be much more efficient if Centrelink could just funnel the installments straight to HN.

schmeah said :

Honestly, Hardly Normals never had a chance after the Baby Bonus started being paid in installments rather than the lump sum payments for plasmas .. I mean .. prams.

Not to mention the fact that Plasmas are actually cheaper then prams these days. Even if it was a lump sum, a smaller percentage would be going to HN, and a larger one to Dan Murphy.

Honestly, Hardly Normals never had a chance after the Baby Bonus started being paid in installments rather than the lump sum payments for plasmas .. I mean .. prams.

A multi million dollar company has to close down a store because of high lease costs.

:’ (

EvanJames said :

p1 said :

Dilandach said :

HN probably didn’t sell enough overpriced monster cables.

Why would you need to plug in your oversized monster? Is it an electric monster?

Well, obviously. Derrrrrrr. Actually, I think it was an overpriced monster, not an oversized monster.

Ahhh. I miss read that. Overpriced monster makes much more sense.

Thoroughly Smashed3:39 pm 23 Feb 12

Felix the Cat said :

Maybe if the staff were actually helpful and had a reasonable product knowlegable they wouldn’t need to close.

Does HN pay enough for people who know what they’re talking about to want to stay?

Felix the Cat said :

Maybe if the staff were actually helpful and had a reasonable product knowlegable they wouldn’t need to close.

Agree 100%. The staff all act like zombies. This could be due to the venilation (or lack of) up there.
The landlord will be pushing to get another tenant I reckon.

I thought Myer was going into a expanded building? You’d be mad to move in where HN is. It’s an odd-bod little mezzanine with zero passing traffic. Oh, and monsters.

Felix the Cat12:56 pm 23 Feb 12

Maybe if the staff were actually helpful and had a reasonable product knowlegable they wouldn’t need to close.

GardeningGirl said :

The last couple of times we went up there it smelled horrible (late last year I think). I hope that’s fixed before new tenants move in.

Probably all the unsold monsters starting to turn.

GardeningGirl12:28 pm 23 Feb 12

The last couple of times we went up there it smelled horrible (late last year I think). I hope that’s fixed before new tenants move in.

p1 said :

Dilandach said :

HN probably didn’t sell enough overpriced monster cables.

Why would you need to plug in your oversized monster? Is it an electric monster?

Well, obviously. Derrrrrrr. Actually, I think it was an overpriced monster, not an oversized monster.

Dilandach said :

HN probably didn’t sell enough overpriced monster cables.

Why would you need to plug in your oversized monster? Is it an electric monster?

I think using the closure of the store in Woden as some sort of indicator of the overall performance of Hardly Normal’s stores would be a mistake.

That particular store is in a weird little top level of the plaza, which after thirty odd years of expansions is well away from most traffic, and looking pretty sad. On the couple of occasions that I have been in there over the last few years I have been unable to understand how they could possibly be making a profit.

Robina said :

Myer must be moving into that space after closing in Tuggers

Bit small for Myer isn’t it?

HN probably didn’t sell enough overpriced monster cables.

Myer must be moving into that space after closing in Tuggers

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