21 December 2011

Heavily pregnant shoplifter gets the better of mall cop

| johnboy
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ACT Policing will summons two people to court on theft and other charges after an alleged shoplifting incident in Woden Plaza yesterday (Tuesday, December 20).

Around 5.30pm yesterday while on duty in a major department store in Woden Plaza, a loss prevention officer observed a man and a heavily pregnant woman, both in their early 20s, acting suspiciously in the menswear section.

The man had been pushing a trolley with clothing items which appeared to have the security tags attached.

When the couple went to leave the store with the items a short time later, the tags were no longer visible so the loss prevention officer approached them, identified himself, and queried the items.

The man began to rapidly push the trolley to the multi-level carpark and down the vehicle ramp with the officer in pursuit, while the woman took another exit and reappeared to block the officer’s path. She then allegedly clawed at the officer’s shirt and chest, ripped off the officer’s lanyard, and bit his left arm.

The loss prevention officer lost sight of the pair as they ran off, but provided good descriptions to police, who quickly attended. The alleged shoplifters were located a short distance away in Port Jackson Circuit, Phillip. The alleged stolen property included a blue Lonsdale T-shirt and grey tracksuit pants.

Anyone who saw the incident and/or assault is urged to contact Crime Stoppers on 1800 333 000 or at www.act.crimestoppers.com.au.

[Courtesy ACT Policing]

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screaming banshee3:54 pm 31 Dec 11

Violet68 said :

There’s a good movie called Oranges And Sunshine…

There’s an atrocious movie called Idiocrisy, but the first few minutes is sums up societies woes rather well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXRjmyJFzrU

All this talk of removing children from their parents, makes me wonder what might happen if you did take them and put them in “better” homes. Perhaps they would combine the strengths and resilience learned during their earlier experiences, with the benefits of a higher education, perhaps music, art classes, access to quality health services (instead of the public system). Maybe these kids would then take the place of “your” children in society? Wow, there’s a thought. I could just imagine the whingeing! That bogan kid got in to ANU but mine didn’t……That bogan kid got the job and mine didn’t……kind of makes me lol. Just face it, if the disadvantaged were advantaged……there just wouldn’t be enough advantage for YOU and YOURS. There’s a good movie called Oranges And Sunshine that portrays the true story of children removed from the UK and bought to Australia to give them “better” lives. Major fail on the part of the child welfare system. IMO CPS haven’t learned from earlier mistakes. Pity they missed out on the NSW inquiry and reform.

Instant Mash10:27 pm 30 Dec 11

There’s a good reason people don’t respect mall cops.

Honestly, I’ve only ever seen them once use any force whatsoever.

The comments in this thread remind me oh so much of why when I worked Security I always refused to take “loss prevention” positions. The unfortunate truth is that most of the people working in this area of security (mall cops if you will) are as uneducated, bogan like, etc…. as the people they complain about having to deal with. It seems 2 commentors here have gone out of their way already to prove me right on that point. There were always 2 reason I never worked in a shopping mall security postion: first is the customers and second is your co-workers. Which is worse is semantic, they are both as bad as each other to deal with.

Remember kids – eugenics is a real science. Right CC?

Fair comment i get the 200 dollars from my experiences ,ok you can call for under 200 just dont expect to see em for atleast 6 to 7 hours. so really is it worth the time and effort

Response time isn’t as much of a factor if the offender has already left (which would make the job go down the priority list). The same investigation will be conducted either way. Is it worth the effort? That’s for the businesses to decide.

BTW, you’ll know that an offender in custody is generally a different story, response wise.

Tooks said :

common32 said :

Tooks said :

common32 said :

all im saying it is not worth the drama for a 80 dollar theft that the cops usually wont attend to anyway. Most loss prevention officers like myself are only on 17 to 20 dollars an hour

It still gets investigated whether they attend or not.

It only gets investigated when it gets reported and then it up to the business, usually only if there is footage of the incident or it hits a certain amount will the police attend and the amount is usually over 200 dollars

Yes, well obviously it only gets investigated if it’s reported – it’s a bit hard otherwise. Don’t know where you got the $200 figure from though. Possibly some shops have a policy that they won’t call police if it’s under that value?

Fair comment i get the 200 dollars from my experiences ,ok you can call for under 200 just dont expect to see em for atleast 6 to 7 hours. so really is it worth the time and effort

common32 said :

Tooks said :

common32 said :

all im saying it is not worth the drama for a 80 dollar theft that the cops usually wont attend to anyway. Most loss prevention officers like myself are only on 17 to 20 dollars an hour

It still gets investigated whether they attend or not.

It only gets investigated when it gets reported and then it up to the business, usually only if there is footage of the incident or it hits a certain amount will the police attend and the amount is usually over 200 dollars

Yes, well obviously it only gets investigated if it’s reported – it’s a bit hard otherwise. Don’t know where you got the $200 figure from though. Possibly some shops have a policy that they won’t call police if it’s under that value?

it really isnt worth going full time/part time in this job but unfortunatly when ya want the sick pay and holiday pay thats the money you have to put up with matt

common32 said :

all im saying it is not worth the drama for a 80 dollar theft that the cops usually wont attend to anyway. Most loss prevention officers like myself are only on 17 to 20 dollars an hour

17 to 20 bucks? Does your a**e hurt cause it’s been ******! You guys need a better union. I was getting about 22 at the Canberra Centre years ago when I did security there for a month and I thought that was pathetic money for the dangers one may face, and you aren’t even allowed to carry a self defense weapon. But I definitely didn’t see the kind of abuse and stress you would get. Pump your pay up to the minimum at 24 bucks/hr. I have always thought that the private security industry is underrepresented and undervalued.

Especially for being abused scratched and bitten without being able to do a thing. No wonder they call us rubber cops.

what im trying to say is there is a good percentage if he hadnt followed them it wouldnt have been reported at all

Tooks said :

common32 said :

all im saying it is not worth the drama for a 80 dollar theft that the cops usually wont attend to anyway. Most loss prevention officers like myself are only on 17 to 20 dollars an hour

It still gets investigated whether they attend or not.

It only gets investigated when it gets reported and then it up to the business, usually only if there is footage of the incident or it hits a certain amount will the police attend and the amount is usually over 200 dollars

common32 said :

all im saying it is not worth the drama for a 80 dollar theft that the cops usually wont attend to anyway. Most loss prevention officers like myself are only on 17 to 20 dollars an hour

It still gets investigated whether they attend or not.

Its all about common sense

all im saying it is not worth the drama for a 80 dollar theft that the cops usually wont attend to anyway. Most loss prevention officers like myself are only on 17 to 20 dollars an hour

Choosing to follow someone, get in a physical confrontation with them, then try to claim self-defence could also be problematic

TheDancingDjinn11:06 am 24 Dec 11

johnboy said :

TheDancingDjinn said :

common32 said :

cc Im not having a shot at you but legally if he had of escalated and he injured the baby or god forbid worse he would have the book thrown at him. I do understand what your saying but in the long run we are just employees who where the “sexy” uniform we have no more rights than anyone else

Doesn’t it depend on the age of said feotus? If someone was to hit her in a car accident, and her child was to die there no one would pay for that child’s death, before 20 weeks or so its not considered a person. sad but true. So why would his punch in the stomach come with anything more than self defense after she bit him and scrached him? I don’t agree with the attitude CC displays, but if the kid isn’t a baby in a car accident, it can’t be a baby when she atacks someone and gets herself injured while doing so.

Would you want to spend the next three years building that defence, one expensive lawyer at a time, in court?

I don’t agree personally with the law, that the feotus wasn’t a baby – but it is a law in this contry. Which is why i asked – would someone not take that into consideration?

TheDancingDjinn said :

common32 said :

cc Im not having a shot at you but legally if he had of escalated and he injured the baby or god forbid worse he would have the book thrown at him. I do understand what your saying but in the long run we are just employees who where the “sexy” uniform we have no more rights than anyone else

Doesn’t it depend on the age of said feotus? If someone was to hit her in a car accident, and her child was to die there no one would pay for that child’s death, before 20 weeks or so its not considered a person. sad but true. So why would his punch in the stomach come with anything more than self defense after she bit him and scrached him? I don’t agree with the attitude CC displays, but if the kid isn’t a baby in a car accident, it can’t be a baby when she atacks someone and gets herself injured while doing so.

Would you want to spend the next three years building that defence, one expensive lawyer at a time, in court?

TheDancingDjinn10:33 am 24 Dec 11

common32 said :

cc Im not having a shot at you but legally if he had of escalated and he injured the baby or god forbid worse he would have the book thrown at him. I do understand what your saying but in the long run we are just employees who where the “sexy” uniform we have no more rights than anyone else

Doesn’t it depend on the age of said feotus? If someone was to hit her in a car accident, and her child was to die there no one would pay for that child’s death, before 20 weeks or so its not considered a person. sad but true. So why would his punch in the stomach come with anything more than self defense after she bit him and scrached him? I don’t agree with the attitude CC displays, but if the kid isn’t a baby in a car accident, it can’t be a baby when she atacks someone and gets herself injured while doing so.

cc Im not having a shot at you but legally if he had of escalated and he injured the baby or god forbid worse he would have the book thrown at him. I do understand what your saying but in the long run we are just employees who where the “sexy” uniform we have no more rights than anyone else

Similarly to zombies and vampires, if you get bit by a bogan slapper you’re pretty much f***ed.

creative_canberran11:43 pm 23 Dec 11

matt31221 said :

creative_canberran said :

A reminder people, my original comment was in reply this, whose basis is no more than violence as a form of vengeance:

matt31221 said :

Wow, the security guard in question must be a pussycat. The moment she scratched and bit him he was legally approved to escalate the level of force of the force triangle to multiple blows to the assailants head. I am old fashioned and don’t believe in violence towards women, but hey – women want equal rights these days. If they are going to try and punch on with guys – defend yourself, fair yes? I would of done a Jake the Mus on her.

Nice backpedal there mate. Don’t try and put this back on me, my post was in humor and mentioned nothing of aborting children via pugilism.

I am over this story,

is it even worth making jokes on this site? Even JB gave it to me when he is the master of black humor. Sheesh!

A joke, seriously?
Yeah, there’s only one back pedal going on here.
At least I was trying to make a point about the disastrously limited options and ineffectiveness of community services, coarse and unpalatable though some found it. A point about the growth in intergenerational disadvantage, substance abuse and criminality.

Where’s the joke in “he was legally approved to escalate the level of force of the force triangle to multiple blows to the assailants head.”

In my store i have caught and equal number of well off people to people with financal struggles. As with junkies/drunks and normal functioning people,all im saying is crime and child birth is not only restricted to the poor

GardeningGirl3:05 pm 23 Dec 11

common32 said :

Please can we not get in a pro-life argument

My apologies. I did not wish to start another debate. Sorry for the confusion over pro-life/pro-choice too, I don’t like extremists on either side. What I really want to emphasise is that a society that condones/encourages/financially supports people who act like that and produce more people who act like that who produce more people who act like that is unsustainable.
I’m sure working in a mall is tough enough at this time of year, I hope the security guard in the story is okay and has a nice Christmas.

Please can we not get in a pro-life argument

poetix said :

GardeningGirl said :

.. Btw admittedly the suggestion of hitting a pregnant woman is rightly taboo in society but I wonder how many people expressing outrage at that support pro-life, ie disposing of a baby because it is inconvenient even though it is healthy and could be adopted and have a great life? …

I somehow see a distinction between a woman choosing to have an abortion and the delightful suggestion that one be performed on her by punching her stomach.

Just call me crazy!

(I notice you seem to use the expression ‘pro-life’ to describe the idea that she could legally dispose of an unwanted pregnancy; it’s usually called pro-choice in those amusingly fervid American debates.)

Actually, pro-life is the mantra of the “abortions are bad no matter what.” crew. Pro-choice is the mantra of the “Her body, her choice.” crew.

GardeningGirl said :

.. Btw admittedly the suggestion of hitting a pregnant woman is rightly taboo in society but I wonder how many people expressing outrage at that support pro-life, ie disposing of a baby because it is inconvenient even though it is healthy and could be adopted and have a great life? …

I somehow see a distinction between a woman choosing to have an abortion and the delightful suggestion that one be performed on her by punching her stomach.

Just call me crazy!

(I notice you seem to use the expression ‘pro-life’ to describe the idea that she could legally dispose of an unwanted pregnancy; it’s usually called pro-choice in those amusingly fervid American debates.)

GardeningGirl12:51 pm 23 Dec 11

I didn’t post on this thread earlier because the story made me so angry I didn’t think I could contribute anything much that was rational and coherent, and then it seemed to veer off into outrage over some comments. Btw admittedly the suggestion of hitting a pregnant woman is rightly taboo in society but I wonder how many people expressing outrage at that support pro-life, ie disposing of a baby because it is inconvenient even though it is healthy and could be adopted and have a great life? I just mention it because I think the various issues are worth deeper thought instead of superficial politically correct reactions. I definitely think the situation where people with so little regard for society, for other people (like the security guard who was just doing his job) and for the welfare of their own offspring, continue to produce more people like themselves is unsustainable. Society has gone from being way too harsh on women who fell on hard times or made one mistake or were simply born the “wrong” social class or colour, to having way too much politically correct compassion even when a bit of harshness might do more good for the person. I hope in this particular case the judge has the wisdom to do what will help the woman and her baby, and I hope the woman has the sense to grab whatever chance she’s given to turn her life around.

Hats off to you, common32. It must be tough having to deal with this sort of thing in your regular 9 to 5. I respect what you do.

quote:

im sick of you act public servants/uni students sayin oh he should of done this he should of done that as a loss prevention officer for 13 years im appaled at this article and and most of the comments he did everything he could in the matter and as for force escalation what happens when something happens to the baby ever heard of manslaughter idiot

He wasn’t chasing the preggo check – he was chasing the dude with the trolley – AND couldn’t catch him.

colourful sydney racing identity8:10 am 23 Dec 11

@ creative canberran – a word of advice; if you are going to criticise the spelling, punctuation and grammar of other contributors to this site, make sure your posts contain no errors.

Failure to do so makes you a very easy target, and, makes you look like more of a d***head than you already do for promoting the beating of a woman until she miscarriages.

creative_canberran said :

A reminder people, my original comment was in reply this, whose basis is no more than violence as a form of vengeance:

matt31221 said :

Wow, the security guard in question must be a pussycat. The moment she scratched and bit him he was legally approved to escalate the level of force of the force triangle to multiple blows to the assailants head. I am old fashioned and don’t believe in violence towards women, but hey – women want equal rights these days. If they are going to try and punch on with guys – defend yourself, fair yes? I would of done a Jake the Mus on her.

Nice backpedal there mate. Don’t try and put this back on me, my post was in humor and mentioned nothing of aborting children via pugilism.

I am over this story, is it even worth making jokes on this site? Even JB gave it to me when he is the master of black humor. Sheesh!

common32 said :

im sick of you act public servants/uni students sayin oh he should of done this he should of done that as a loss prevention officer for 13 years im appaled at this article and and most of the comments he did everything he could in the matter and as for force escalation what happens when something happens to the baby ever heard of manslaughter idiot

Did you read the rest of my comments you absolute Muppet?

creative_canberran8:24 pm 22 Dec 11

A reminder people, my original comment was in reply this, whose basis is no more than violence as a form of vengeance:

matt31221 said :

Wow, the security guard in question must be a pussycat. The moment she scratched and bit him he was legally approved to escalate the level of force of the force triangle to multiple blows to the assailants head. I am old fashioned and don’t believe in violence towards women, but hey – women want equal rights these days. If they are going to try and punch on with guys – defend yourself, fair yes? I would of done a Jake the Mus on her.

I’m impressed once again. Plenty of Gillespie style rants from cc. Awesome, keep it going..

“lol, it really is a laugh calling someone else an idiot when you can’t use capitalisation, commas or full stops. Indeed in neither of your comments were you able to actually construct a sentence. Indeed calling someone else an “idiot snob” is very amusing when one lacks a grasp of english and grammar.”

Again, you might want to look at your own posts before you criticise others for spelling, capitalisation and grammar. Furthermore I think he was calling you an idiot because of what you were saying, not how you were saying it.

“So I will say it again. This kid will be born to horrid parents, and because of drug abuse, will be disadvantaged before it’s even born. And worse of all it doesn’t even get a choice about that.”

I think you mean “worst of all” not worse of all. Tsk tsk.

So your solution to this is to punch the woman in the stomach, killing the child and thus… giving it a choice? You don’t see any contradiction there?

well i do apologise about not using proper pronunciation when i type a message of my phone. (happy master theres a full stop just for you) i do agree with creative about how the child is already disadvantaged and most probably left with interlectual (cant spell to boot) problems,unfortunatly its just a way that the worlds travelling and nothing unfortunatly that you have to say will change that fact. And who cases about my lack of grammer. I would love to see anyone of you do my job day after day of abuse ,threats and insults from junkies public servants and over educated pricks such as yourselfs

creative_canberran5:21 pm 22 Dec 11

common32 said :

creative canberra you are with out a doubt an idiot who thinks his opinion means alot to others it may well be the case with uneducated biggots who belive they are more important than others but all it comes down to is your an idiot snob

lol, it really is a laugh calling someone else an idiot when you can’t use capitalisation, commas or full stops. Indeed in neither of your comments were you able to actually construct a sentence. Indeed calling someone else an “idiot snob” is very amusing when one lacks a grasp of english and grammar.

common32 said :

so you know i have had many run ins with this pair there not homeless or in rags they are just drug f….ed kleptos so quit with the poor person angle bloody pubes

So they’re on drugs. Thank you for confirming the grounds for my original comment.
Drug abuse does permanent harm to the development of an unborn child. At best, this can lead to impaired mental and physical development. At worst, it can lead to severe birth defects and cognitive disorders in life.

So I will say it again. This kid will be born to horrid parents, and because of drug abuse, will be disadvantaged before it’s even born. And worse of all it doesn’t even get a choice about that.

so you know i have had many run ins with this pair there not homeless or in rags they are just drug f….ed kleptos so quit with the poor person angle bloody pubes

creative canberra you are with out a doubt an idiot who thinks his opinion means alot to others it may well be the case with uneducated biggots who belive they are more important than others but all it comes down to is your an idiot snob

im sick of you act public servants/uni students sayin oh he should of done this he should of done that as a loss prevention officer for 13 years im appaled at this article and and most of the comments he did everything he could in the matter and as for force escalation what happens when something happens to the baby ever heard of manslaughter idiot

The problem being no-one since the turks with their jannisaries has had a reliable way to raise other people’s children.

creative_canberran4:35 pm 22 Dec 11

Dilandach said :

Not suckling at the teat of welfare, the common houso is less likely to end up with a number of kids in the double digits. With less money they’re unlikely to engage in behaviour that will result in more kids to stress their own situation. Oh, there will always be some that will spit out kids to multiple fathers no matter what you do (even fat toothless chicks need love) but a majority would think about what they were doing without the infinite safety net that is ‘single parent payment’.
On and on.

Good grief I had no idea so many people on The RiotACT were so out of touch with reality.

You think poor people won’t have kids? Please people look up the stats on the number of homeless women (and men) with kids.

Druggies, crims, alcoholics = no kids. Simple.

All this lefty softly softly stuff is really going no where. Lock this idiot up, take the kids and give it to someone else. Don’t even give her or the dead beat bloke she’s with a chance.

creative_canberran said :

dpm said :

These ‘case studies’ aren’t the top level of evidence, but then again, neither is yours (later on)….
Have a happy Xmas! Geez…..

The evidence is based on statistics using samples in the thousands or more.
Your contention is based on a handful of first hand experiences.
But with spelling and english skills like that, I’m not surprised you can’t tell the difference.

Dilandach said :

Call me crazy but I’m pretty sure even Judge Dredd didn’t perform late term abortions based on the propensity to lead a life of crime.

While I don’t like the generational welfare system that has emerged, I’d rather see them cut off from the teat of society.

So wait, you’d rather the kids is brought into a world of even more severe poverty?
Isn’t that inhumane.

Not suckling at the teat of welfare, the common houso is less likely to end up with a number of kids in the double digits. With less money they’re unlikely to engage in behaviour that will result in more kids to stress their own situation. Oh, there will always be some that will spit out kids to multiple fathers no matter what you do (even fat toothless chicks need love) but a majority would think about what they were doing without the infinite safety net that is ‘single parent payment’.

The carrot and stick approach to housing would also go along way with reducing their numbers. Make no mistake, they’re a polyp on the anus of humanity but I wouldn’t go for summary executions. Starvation and extreme poverty? Sure there would be some but there would be more not born that would be saved from a life of poverty and crime. Then the flow on effects to not having to police them, courts, house them, jail them.

On and on.

johnboy said :

A quick tip about “jokes” made about assaulting heavily pregnant women…

They need to be *really* funny.

Well to be truthful when I was making the Jake the Mus “joke” I forgot that the women was pregnant.

Or is this more aimed at Creative_canberran?

A quick tip about “jokes” made about assaulting heavily pregnant women…

They need to be *really* funny.

colourful sydney racing identity1:41 pm 22 Dec 11

matt31221 said :

Come on guys! I was only attempting to be comical.

Yes, the subject of bashing women is a great source of champagne comedy.

colourful sydney racing identity said :

creative_canberran said :

I am a cock who believes we should arbitrarily exterminate those we think are lower than us in society.

+1 Thanks for the translation

Come on guys! I was only attempting to be comical. You have to take extreme things people say with a grain of salt. The truth is I could never hit a women, I would defend myself by grabbing her hands and holding her till the police arrived but I would not punch a women in the face.

I like to think of myself as one of the good guys (and try and always do the right thing) and I suppose that is why bad people find me boring.

I am %70 sure Creative_Canberran was only joking around too. This is the internet where you can say extreme and silly things sometimes without meaning them. Just like Capt RAAF jokes about shooting cat’s in suburbia with an air rifle. I am sure he would never do that, he probably doesn’t even own an air rifle.

All these so called bogan scum, I don’t take any guff from them but I remember they’re people too. People can change given the right help and circumstance.

I have worked as a security guard in the Canberra Centre and even gave the ‘bogan scum’ respect, do that and they will mostly not cause any trouble. I remember confronting a bunch of boganish aboriginal kids riding up the railing on one of the escalators near Dick Smith one day. I told them to get off and one of them started mouthing off at me “You white bastards hate us abo’s you think we are scum”, I replied “That is a false assumption, I respect you as a fellow Australian and aboriginal and see you as a brother”. They got off the escalators without causing any trouble and walked away. Respect.

“But with spelling and english skills like that, I’m not surprised you can’t tell the difference.”

That’s hilarious. So what do the following gems tell us about the value of your learned opinions?

“if you’re going to live your life a low life crime”
“who will steal bogan clothes but can’t be botheres stealing condoms”
“Substance abuse, shaking up with bad guys”
“(the kids grand father)”
“This woman’s own father was asking me what option he may have to get the kid out of their.”
“It’s time to stop been al bleeding heart left wing”

Anyway, I think it is not just “al bleeding heart left wing” that are opposed to social eugenics. Most rational people understand that these are difficult, complex problems that require constant engagement to manage.

The naive approach is to see society’s tolerance and support of such people as a sign of weakness. I reckon that if brutality were all that was required to solve problems of poverty, addiction and anti-social behaviour they would have ceased to exist hundreds of years ago. Maybe we should invade some island in the middle of the the ocean somewhere and turn it into a vast prison colony and send all of these people there–surely that would solve all our social problems, right?

Since you feel so strongly about how DoCS is run, I’m sure that, in addition to suggesting someone should punch a heavily pregnant woman in the hopes of killing the unborn child, you are also engaged in letter writing campaigns, appealing to your elected representatives and otherwise actively engaging with the organisations to bring about change in the way children are cared for. After all, who better to argue for the protection of children than someone who advocates killing them… Hmmm….

colourful sydney racing identity1:26 pm 22 Dec 11

creative_canberran said :

I am a cock who believes we should arbitrarily exterminate those we think are lower than us in society.

creative_canberran said :

dpm said :

These ‘case studies’ aren’t the top level of evidence, but then again, neither is yours (later on)….
Have a happy Xmas! Geez…..

The evidence is based on statistics using samples in the thousands or more.
Your contention is based on a handful of first hand experiences.
But with spelling and english skills like that, I’m not surprised you can’t tell the difference.

Dilandach said :

Call me crazy but I’m pretty sure even Judge Dredd didn’t perform late term abortions based on the propensity to lead a life of crime.

While I don’t like the generational welfare system that has emerged, I’d rather see them cut off from the teat of society.

So wait, you’d rather the kids is brought into a world of even more severe poverty?
Isn’t that inhumane.

NoImRight said :

OK. So thats your justification for random abortions? “One time at bandcamp”?

My understanding was it would have likely been a crack den near the Cross actually.

Jokes and bible bashers aside, more often than not, inter generational disadvantage, intergenerational substance abuse and intergenerational criminality is what society gets lumped with from these people.
If this woman is abusing substances while pregnant, then the likelihood is the child will be born with any number of conditions including foetal alcohol syndrome. Again, we need only look at Mully who I suspect had this and it was certainly reported had ADD.

It’s time to stop been al bleeding heart left wing and start dishing out some tough love to these idiots.

The suggestion of a punch to the stomach is meant to be a very strong way to highlight that lack of action on this. DoCS sure don’t seem to be able to take kids away from bad environments, nor do relatives who are concerned and go via the courts.

Hahahaha! I love it when discussions degrade down to spelling and grammar! Then again, I can’t really see too much wrong with what I wrote?
Whereas, if we’re being picky about ‘spelling and grammar skills’, in one paragraph from you we have “Inter generational” (with no hyphenation) and “been al” (which I assume are meant to be “being all”…?). In fact, the whole ‘bleeding heart left wing’ sentence has a few issues! Hahaha! Go CC! 🙂

creative_canberran12:57 pm 22 Dec 11

dpm said :

These ‘case studies’ aren’t the top level of evidence, but then again, neither is yours (later on)….
Have a happy Xmas! Geez…..

The evidence is based on statistics using samples in the thousands or more.
Your contention is based on a handful of first hand experiences.
But with spelling and english skills like that, I’m not surprised you can’t tell the difference.

Dilandach said :

Call me crazy but I’m pretty sure even Judge Dredd didn’t perform late term abortions based on the propensity to lead a life of crime.

While I don’t like the generational welfare system that has emerged, I’d rather see them cut off from the teat of society.

So wait, you’d rather the kids is brought into a world of even more severe poverty?
Isn’t that inhumane.

NoImRight said :

OK. So thats your justification for random abortions? “One time at bandcamp”?

My understanding was it would have likely been a crack den near the Cross actually.

Jokes and bible bashers aside, more often than not, inter generational disadvantage, intergenerational substance abuse and intergenerational criminality is what society gets lumped with from these people.
If this woman is abusing substances while pregnant, then the likelihood is the child will be born with any number of conditions including foetal alcohol syndrome. Again, we need only look at Mully who I suspect had this and it was certainly reported had ADD.

It’s time to stop been al bleeding heart left wing and start dishing out some tough love to these idiots.

The suggestion of a punch to the stomach is meant to be a very strong way to highlight that lack of action on this. DoCS sure don’t seem to be able to take kids away from bad environments, nor do relatives who are concerned and go via the courts.

creative_canberran said :

Let me elaborate on my comment above, as no doubt some naive people will have a problem with it.

Firstly, odds are these people are on welfare, in an unstable situation and needing to steal. Odds are also that there’s some substance/alcohol abuse involved at some point. Both these things are statistically linked to low educational outcomes in children and behavioural problems. The behaviour and circumstance of parents is also often linked to criminal offending of children later in life.
We need only look at the slurred speech of Mully’s mother following the crash to see where he came from.

Secondly, I make that comment not only based on impersonal statistics, but also the first hand account of a concerned father.
He spoke at length to me and wanted some advice about what to do with his daughter who had long ago gone off the rails. Substance abuse, shaking up with bad guys. She’d managed to have a kid along the way.
This kid was (and still is) being brought up in horrible circumstances, often abandoned by this woman who would suddenly disappear for days at a time, leaving it for her father (the kids grand father) or whoever she was shacked up with at the time to look after the kid at short notice, with no explanation and often no warning.
This woman’s own father was asking me what option he may have to get the kid out of their. This woman’s own father was saying what a horrible messed up person she was and that she shouldn’t have had his grandkid.
He was unfortunately powerless, I wasn’t the first person he had asked. He could only sit back and watch as his grandkid was being screwed up.

OK. So thats your justification for random abortions? “One time at bandcamp”?

creative_canberran said :

This woman’s own father was asking me what option he may have to get the kid out of their. This woman’s own father was saying what a horrible messed up person she was and that she shouldn’t have had his grandkid.
He was unfortunately powerless, I wasn’t the first person he had asked. He could only sit back and watch as his grandkid was being screwed up.

More common a circumstance that people are willing to admit unfortunately. Statistically, I dont think the chances are good if he takes his daughter to court for custody as the primary carer. By the time the case gets heard she will ‘reform’ and ‘be a great mother’ and sadly for the child and the concerned grandfather, nothing will happen except a bunch of lawyers will make some money.

forgoodnessake said :

wow. Just wow. That’s class there that is.

I wonder if she was really pregnant or if it was a fake shop lifters belly? I hope it was a fake shop lifters belly…

Probably had a toaster stuffed under her shirt.

creative_canberran said :

matt31221 said :

Wow, the security guard in question must be a pussycat. The moment she scratched and bit him he was legally approved to escalate the level of force of the force triangle to multiple blows to the assailants head. I am old fashioned and don’t believe in violence towards women, but hey – women want equal rights these days. If they are going to try and punch on with guys – defend yourself, fair yes? I would of done a Jake the Mus on her.

Frankly a good, hard punch to the stomach would have been in order. I don’t condone violence to women, but if you’re going to live your life a low life crim who will steal bogan clothes but can’t be botheres stealing condoms, it seems appropriate. Assuming it wasn’t fake, that kid is screwed for life and it never had a choice.

Wow, I remember someone recently suspected you of being a woman hater. I guess this helps clarify that suspicion?!
Either that, or standard trolling behaviour…..
The only other thing I can say is, i’ve known kids from broken and abusive homes who turned out to be wonderful, intelligent adults that benefitted society. I’ve also known kids that were born into loving families that were given every opportunity, who then turned out to be criminal drains on society causing pain for many people.
These ‘case studies’ aren’t the top level of evidence, but then again, neither is yours (later on)….
Have a happy Xmas! Geez…..

Call me crazy but I’m pretty sure even Judge Dredd didn’t perform late term abortions based on the propensity to lead a life of crime.

While I don’t like the generational welfare system that has emerged, I’d rather see them cut off from the teat of society.

creative_canberran said :

matt31221 said :

Wow, the security guard in question must be a pussycat. The moment she scratched and bit him he was legally approved to escalate the level of force of the force triangle to multiple blows to the assailants head. I am old fashioned and don’t believe in violence towards women, but hey – women want equal rights these days. If they are going to try and punch on with guys – defend yourself, fair yes? I would of done a Jake the Mus on her.

Frankly a good, hard punch to the stomach would have been in order. I don’t condone violence to women, but if you’re going to live your life a low life crim who will steal bogan clothes but can’t be botheres stealing condoms, it seems appropriate. Assuming it wasn’t fake, that kid is screwed for life and it never had a choice.

Fortunately, the security guard took a different point of view. I hope he recovers soon from the effects of being bitten and scratched. At least he can take some pride from the fact that he didn’t act as advised above. It’s good to see someone in this whole sorry story showed some restraint.

creative_canberran said :

Let me elaborate on my comment above, as no doubt some naive people will have a problem with it.

Firstly, odds are these people are on welfare, in an unstable situation and needing to steal. Odds are also that there’s some substance/alcohol abuse involved at some point. Both these things are statistically linked to low educational outcomes in children and behavioural problems. The behaviour and circumstance of parents is also often linked to criminal offending of children later in life.
We need only look at the slurred speech of Mully’s mother following the crash to see where he came from.

Secondly, I make that comment not only based on impersonal statistics, but also the first hand account of a concerned father.
He spoke at length to me and wanted some advice about what to do with his daughter who had long ago gone off the rails. Substance abuse, shaking up with bad guys. She’d managed to have a kid along the way.
This kid was (and still is) being brought up in horrible circumstances, often abandoned by this woman who would suddenly disappear for days at a time, leaving it for her father (the kids grand father) or whoever she was shacked up with at the time to look after the kid at short notice, with no explanation and often no warning.
This woman’s own father was asking me what option he may have to get the kid out of their. This woman’s own father was saying what a horrible messed up person she was and that she shouldn’t have had his grandkid.
He was unfortunately powerless, I wasn’t the first person he had asked. He could only sit back and watch as his grandkid was being screwed up.

So he failed as a parent and screwed up his kid? Since screwed up parents invariably raised screwed up kids he must be screwed up, or do your rules only apply went it suits you?

creative_canberran4:06 am 22 Dec 11

Let me elaborate on my comment above, as no doubt some naive people will have a problem with it.

Firstly, odds are these people are on welfare, in an unstable situation and needing to steal. Odds are also that there’s some substance/alcohol abuse involved at some point. Both these things are statistically linked to low educational outcomes in children and behavioural problems. The behaviour and circumstance of parents is also often linked to criminal offending of children later in life.
We need only look at the slurred speech of Mully’s mother following the crash to see where he came from.

Secondly, I make that comment not only based on impersonal statistics, but also the first hand account of a concerned father.
He spoke at length to me and wanted some advice about what to do with his daughter who had long ago gone off the rails. Substance abuse, shaking up with bad guys. She’d managed to have a kid along the way.
This kid was (and still is) being brought up in horrible circumstances, often abandoned by this woman who would suddenly disappear for days at a time, leaving it for her father (the kids grand father) or whoever she was shacked up with at the time to look after the kid at short notice, with no explanation and often no warning.
This woman’s own father was asking me what option he may have to get the kid out of their. This woman’s own father was saying what a horrible messed up person she was and that she shouldn’t have had his grandkid.
He was unfortunately powerless, I wasn’t the first person he had asked. He could only sit back and watch as his grandkid was being screwed up.

creative_canberran said :

matt31221 said :

Wow, the security guard in question must be a pussycat. The moment she scratched and bit him he was legally approved to escalate the level of force of the force triangle to multiple blows to the assailants head. I am old fashioned and don’t believe in violence towards women, but hey – women want equal rights these days. If they are going to try and punch on with guys – defend yourself, fair yes? I would of done a Jake the Mus on her.

Frankly a good, hard punch to the stomach would have been in order. I don’t condone violence to women, but if you’re going to live your life a low life crim who will steal bogan clothes but can’t be botheres stealing condoms, it seems appropriate. Assuming it wasn’t fake, that kid is screwed for life and it never had a choice.

what a creepy comment….I’ll just be sticking to transport issues as is my theme from now on at least with regards to this blog. The rest is…too…provincial, trivial and in this instance quite frightening

whitelaughter1:56 am 22 Dec 11

matt31221 said :

johnboy said :

A heavily pregnant woman? Better never charged for murder than aquited IMHO.

Fair call, but haven’t we established the fact that the women was wearing a false belly?

No we haven’t, that’s a just a wishful hope further up the comments.

Loss prevention officer – minimum wage job, no benefits, mostly intended as a deterrent. Once he was bitten, backing off was the smart move. No knowing what the poor bloke has caught.

The happy ending of course is that he can sue the crazy bitch. Not only for cash, he can also get a restraining order on her, to prevent her returning to that shop – then if she does they can arrest her without waiting for her to grab anything.

creative_canberran said :

matt31221 said :

Wow, the security guard in question must be a pussycat. The moment she scratched and bit him he was legally approved to escalate the level of force of the force triangle to multiple blows to the assailants head. I am old fashioned and don’t believe in violence towards women, but hey – women want equal rights these days. If they are going to try and punch on with guys – defend yourself, fair yes? I would of done a Jake the Mus on her.

Frankly a good, hard punch to the stomach would have been in order. I don’t condone violence to women, but if you’re going to live your life a low life crim who will steal bogan clothes but can’t be botheres stealing condoms, it seems appropriate. Assuming it wasn’t fake, that kid is screwed for life and it never had a choice.

I really hope that’s hyperbole. And I hope you don’t have kids.

matt31221 said :

johnboy said :

A heavily pregnant woman? Better never charged for murder than aquited IMHO.

Fair call, but haven’t we established the fact that the women was wearing a false belly?

Nope.As far as I can ascertain, it hasn’t been established by anybody, just suggested as a possibility by FGS @ #2.

There’s many miles of dusty road between what people write on blogs and much of reality

creative_canberran said :

matt31221 said :

Wow, the security guard in question must be a pussycat. The moment she scratched and bit him he was legally approved to escalate the level of force of the force triangle to multiple blows to the assailants head. I am old fashioned and don’t believe in violence towards women, but hey – women want equal rights these days. If they are going to try and punch on with guys – defend yourself, fair yes? I would of done a Jake the Mus on her.

Frankly a good, hard punch to the stomach would have been in order. I don’t condone violence to women, but if you’re going to live your life a low life crim who will steal bogan clothes but can’t be botheres stealing condoms, it seems appropriate. Assuming it wasn’t fake, that kid is screwed for life and it never had a choice.

So your answer is to kill it before it’s born? Just assume that with low life parents, that there’s no possible way that it could pull itself out of the gutter and lead a meaningful life, so it’s better off dead?

Please tell me that I’m replying to some sick attempt to troll this thread, and you don’t actually think that way…

johnboy said :

A heavily pregnant woman? Better never charged for murder than aquited IMHO.

Yeah.There are some things you just don’t do.

creative_canberran10:47 pm 21 Dec 11

matt31221 said :

Wow, the security guard in question must be a pussycat. The moment she scratched and bit him he was legally approved to escalate the level of force of the force triangle to multiple blows to the assailants head. I am old fashioned and don’t believe in violence towards women, but hey – women want equal rights these days. If they are going to try and punch on with guys – defend yourself, fair yes? I would of done a Jake the Mus on her.

Frankly a good, hard punch to the stomach would have been in order. I don’t condone violence to women, but if you’re going to live your life a low life crim who will steal bogan clothes but can’t be botheres stealing condoms, it seems appropriate. Assuming it wasn’t fake, that kid is screwed for life and it never had a choice.

gertel said :

Points for getting the security tags removed. I thought you needed a special machine to pry those things off?

depending on what they are, a large (special shaped) magnet or a set of pliers?

johnboy said :

A heavily pregnant woman? Better never charged for murder than aquited IMHO.

Fair call, but haven’t we established the fact that the women was wearing a false belly?

Points for getting the security tags removed. I thought you needed a special machine to pry those things off?

Wow, the security guard in question must be a pussycat. The moment she scratched and bit him he was legally approved to escalate the level of force of the force triangle to multiple blows to the assailants head. I am old fashioned and don’t believe in violence towards women, but hey – women want equal rights these days. If they are going to try and punch on with guys – defend yourself, fair yes? I would of done a Jake the Mus on her.

A heavily pregnant woman? Better never charged for murder than aquited IMHO.

goggles13 said :

can’t wait to see the video of this incident on youtube

Perhaps in fast forward, with accompanying Benny Hill music….?

can’t wait to see the video of this incident on youtube

Athryn said :

I’m not sure why you would want to steal a pair of trackies from Big W in the first place. Actually come to think of it, it’s also intersting that Big W bother putting on security labels on them.

It would have been David Jones. Lonsdale is a pricey brand and I don’t believe Big W would stock it.

They also “push the trolley to the multi-level carpark and down the vehicle ramp” so I assume that would be the exit of DJ’s that goes out to the top level.

forgoodnessake4:47 pm 21 Dec 11

Dilandach said :

They didn’t try to nick matching thongs? I guess they weren’t keen to go have dinner at a club.

tehee… funny coz it’s more than likely true

grunge_hippy4:46 pm 21 Dec 11

and of course it was a lonsdale shirt and trackpants. Me thinks someone in ACT police are having a giggle while typing that.

Dilandach said :

They didn’t try to nick matching thongs? I guess they weren’t keen to go have dinner at a club.

On another note, obviously the kid is already signed up for a great future when its born.

A+

Athryn said :

I’m not sure why you would want to steal a pair of trackies from Big W in the first place. Actually come to think of it, it’s also intersting that Big W bother putting on security labels on them.

Can everyone please remember the golden rule: You are NOT allowed to wear tracksuit pants outside the house!! This includes going to the mailbox or to put the bin out. If we let this rule slide the world WILL come to a crashing end.
/rant

Where did Big W come from?

are the crims also going to be fined for removing the trolley from the shopping centre precinct? 🙂

http://the-riotact.com/trolley-fines-start-wednesday/38907

I’m not sure why you would want to steal a pair of trackies from Big W in the first place. Actually come to think of it, it’s also intersting that Big W bother putting on security labels on them.

Can everyone please remember the golden rule: You are NOT allowed to wear tracksuit pants outside the house!! This includes going to the mailbox or to put the bin out. If we let this rule slide the world WILL come to a crashing end.
/rant

They didn’t try to nick matching thongs? I guess they weren’t keen to go have dinner at a club.

On another note, obviously the kid is already signed up for a great future when its born.

qbngeek said :

carnardly said :

so a crim pushing a trolley of stuff (and we all know trolleys have bugger all steering) outran a loss prevention officer chasing me.

lordy me.

Have you seen the ‘loss prevention officers’ in the department stores in Woden. They are all either 170 years old or built like a half inflated hot air balloon.

Not to mention, once you’ve been clawed and bitten, it’s probably not worth your while to continue the ‘hot persuit’! Best to leave it to the Feds!

PatMan said :

Sounds like an exciting chase. Well done Mr Loss-Prevention-Officer. Hope your tetanus immunisation is up to date.
Just a little detail – I think Woden Plaza ceased to exist when Westfields bought it some years back. It will always be Woden Plaza to me, but I fear it should properly be referred to as Westfields Woden!

I know the loss prevention officer/theft reduction agent/attitude adjustment co-ordinator in question. He was in hospital last night, getting checked out more at the moment. He’s in good spirits.

carnardly said :

so a crim pushing a trolley of stuff (and we all know trolleys have bugger all steering) outran a loss prevention officer chasing me.

lordy me.

Have you seen the ‘loss prevention officers’ in the department stores in Woden. They are all either 170 years old or built like a half inflated hot air balloon.

Buckaroo_Banzai3:22 pm 21 Dec 11

carnardly said :

so a crim pushing a trolley of stuff (and we all know trolleys have bugger all steering) outran a loss prevention officer chasing me.

lordy me.

meth. it’s good like that.

so a crim pushing a trolley of stuff (and we all know trolleys have bugger all steering) outran a loss prevention officer chasing me. lordy me.

So the trolley was also their getaway vehicle? Quite the criminal masterminds.

Sounds like an exciting chase. Well done Mr Loss-Prevention-Officer. Hope your tetanus immunisation is up to date.
Just a little detail – I think Woden Plaza ceased to exist when Westfields bought it some years back. It will always be Woden Plaza to me, but I fear it should properly be referred to as Westfields Woden!

forgoodnessake1:52 pm 21 Dec 11

wow. Just wow. That’s class there that is.

I wonder if she was really pregnant or if it was a fake shop lifters belly? I hope it was a fake shop lifters belly…

Holden Caulfield1:50 pm 21 Dec 11

“Loss prevention officer” … seriously?

Aside from that, I wonder how closely related to Mully these two fine upstanding citizens are?

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